Passage : So they say games can't be art?

Mistouze

user-friendly man-cashews
#1
I just did a search and I can't believe what I found out : it seems like nobody has done a Passage thread yet!! OMG so wrong!

So here we go with the page to game site.

The game was made for Kokoromi's Gamma256 event, were designers were asked to design games with one requisite : Using 256 pixels for the games visual, whatever the shape of the "screen" might look like.

Passage is the first game a played of the bunch and I want to share with you all. It's a game about life, there ain't no real goal and you can earn points. I won't spoil the game anymore, just try it and tell us what it make you feel!

For me
in the end I felt sooo sad thinking back at everything I did during this short short life. And that feeling when you realize how the game is going to end...like shivers down my spine.
 
#5
go go kokoromi!

we're very very pleased that passage is getting so much attention.
its a unique piece of work. highly personnal and moving.
it most defenitly IS art.
i think its an important game.
 
#6
The "Are Games Art?" debate needs to die. Toss in conversations about "Games Journalism" and "Games Literacy" as well, pour the gasoline, light the match and walk away.
 
#8
is it possible to talk about the artistic merrits of an artistic game without making it a debate?

passage is a wonderful work of art.
there's no debate to it.
talk about the damned game, not about roger ebert.
as far as im concerned, there is no debate.
 

Campster

Do you like my tight white sweater? STOP STARING
#11
Phil's right. Shut up about games as art, and shut up complaining about people pushing games as art.

The Passage is a gorgeous. The ambiguous purpose of the treasure chests, the slow change in perspective from only being able to look to the future to only being able to look to the past, the ability to spend that time with someone you care about... it's beautiful.
 
#13
There's no benefit to actually having the girl come with you, so the game kind of fails in that aspect.

Other than that, it's terrifyily dull stuff that's more entertaining in concept than execution (which I guess is often a characteristic of high concept art).
 
#14
border said:
There's no benefit to actually having the girl come with you, so the game kind of fails in that aspect.

Other than that, it's terrifyily dull stuff that's more entertaining in concept than execution (which I guess is often a characteristic of high concept art).
She doubles your points from exploration.

That said I got about 800 points just holding right down. I didn't even realize you could go south until I read the designer's notes.
 
#15
border said:
There's no benefit to actually having the girl come with you, so the game kind of fails in that aspect.

Other than that, it's terrifyily dull stuff that's more entertaining in concept than execution (which I guess is often a characteristic of high concept art).
you get double the points with your spouse.

also, you are dead inside.
 
#17
The game's observations are probably pedestrian by the standards of other artforms -- "The future is hazy.....companions can slow you down....treasures you accumulate mean nothing at death".

If the woman only contributes to score and the score is meaningless, then what exactly does that say about marriage or women? Not what the creator intends, I don't think. To have her only as a multiplier for score shows that she is little more than a status object and a burden.

The woman should probably enhance gameplay as much as she detracts from it (especially considering what a hassle it is to have her around).

phil_fish said:
also, you are dead inside.
Well duh.
 
#18
border said:
The game's observations are probably pedestrian by the standards of other artforms -- "The future is hazy.....companions can slow you down....treasures you accumulate mean nothing at death".
The way the game portrays these ideas is fairly novel. However the game itself is banal outside of the spouse. I'm not really sure what this says about games as art when the most interesting aspect is the concept and graphic presentation and not the gameplay.
 

Witchfinder General

punched Wheelchair Mike
#22
NoirYuki said:
There's a reason I hate the term "art" in general, as well as people who call themselves "artists".

Wow, I just hate everything, don't I?

Why stop there? Why not have no terms for anything? Or better yet, let's get rid of language alltogether!
 
#23
I died. This game is hard.

When my girl died before me, I felt overwhelmingly sad. I just walked alone until the end.

I don't even know if I want to play it again, it might cheapen the experience.
 
#27
"Games as art" should die, I agree, but I think what most people are aiming at is this: "can games have a deeper meaning than disposable entertainment"? And obviously the answer is yes.
 
#28
Bugger, I downloaded it but it won't go. Stupid work computer.

NoirYuki said:
There's a reason I hate the term "art" in general, as well as people who call themselves "artists".

Wow, I just hate everything, don't I?
The old adage "art is in the eye of the beholder" is very true. The creator of something calling it "art" doesn't make it so. The viewer is the one who determines whether something is "art".

The creator of something telling everyone "THIS IS ART DAMMIT!" serves no purpose other than to drive people to the opposite conclusion. The viewer will tend to think "well, the artistic merits of this thing must not be very strong if the creator has to TELL me it is art".

I can see the artistic merit in games, but I make the judgement of whether it is art myself. Others do not have to view them the same way and forcing it on them is pointless.
 
#29
deepbrown said:
they used to say the same about films.
Games are still a hell of a long way from their Citizen ****

bard said:
"Games as art" should die, I agree, but I think what most people are aiming at is this: "can games have a deeper meaning than disposable entertainment"? And obviously the answer is yes.
The answer is perhaps, if games can stop being disposable entertainment.

EDIT : I'm keen to play Passage, but I'm at work at the moment and it fills the whole bloody screen, not too subtle. Is there any way to make it run in a window (Mac)?
 
#33
bard said:
"Games as art" should die, I agree, but I think what most people are aiming at is this: "can games have a deeper meaning than disposable entertainment"? And obviously the answer is yes.
Actually, obviously the answer is No.
 
#36
Err, I definitely get the whole profound message and all, but I didn't really find it that moving or life-changing as everyone seems to think it is, not only here but on most sites as well. Kind of an overreaction... thanks for the link nonetheless.

Anyway, back to Cave Story.
 
#37
Kabuki Waq said:
why is that everyone who talks about Art is so damn pretentious?

Why is it that everyone who talks about people who talk about art, but don't enjoy them talking about art, have to throw out the adjective "pretentious"?
 
#39
Beautiful. The music really hit me too, especially when my wife died.

I love the field of view and how it evolves over the course of your `life`.
 
#40
Any thread in Gaming Discussion which happens to contain the word art in the title is put in a pretty damn precarious position. All we need now is for Sapiens to show up with his "no lol" routine and we're finished.

I can't try out the game yet, got to wait until I get home, but it certainly sounds like an interesting little experiment. Which is probably what I should be working on, rather than big, vague, ambitious design docs that I've got no chance in hell of ever implementing.
 
#41
It's an interesting idea and makes a good statement, but as a game it really fails. There is nothing interesting to do besides keep walking and if your going to make a statement about life with a game, there should probably be some form of interacting with NPCs.
 
#42
Painfully trite and boring, though I did like the part where the character goes back in time after finally being freed from the shackles of marriage.

Who's to say that's not the story?
 
#45
Just got to about 800 points, lost interest and deleted it.

1: The game is boring.
2: Games are not art.
3: Since this topic has been done to death, bury it already.
4: The game sucks.
5: I would ask for my 5 minutes back but since I played this 'game' with my toes while I was actually focusing on making my new characters not suck in Etrian Odyssey (which has more emotional impact than this game btw), you're off the hook for now.
6: Buy Etrian Odyssey you assholes!
 
#47
They are just old fags. By the time the gaming generation are old enough to run newspaper and magazine editor-in-chiefs, we will see games treated as art.

YOU HEAR ME ROGER EBERT? YOUR OLD FAG!!
 

Campster

Do you like my tight white sweater? STOP STARING
#48
lyre said:
Just got to about 800 points, lost interest and deleted it.

1: The game is boring.
2: Games are not art.
3: Since this topic has been done to death, bury it already.
4: The game sucks.
5: I would ask for my 5 minutes back but since I played this 'game' with my toes while I was actually focusing on making my new characters not suck in Etrian Odyssey (which has more emotional impact than this game btw), you're off the hook for now.
6: Buy Etrian Odyssey you assholes!
See, I was trying to be civil, but you had to invoke fighting words.

Your post is 33% opinion, 33% undefended blanket statement, and 33% baseless vitriol that makes you come off more sad than hip and more desperate than insightful.
 

Ether_Snake

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#49
Am I the only one who just walked forward, walked, walked, walked, walked, and then just suddenly died of age? WTF are you supposed to do?
 
#50
Funny, I think this perfectly illustrates why games can't be art (according to Ebert's definition of art at least). If this is 'games as art,' but we had to remove all interesting forms of interaction with it to elevate it to art, then what the hell is the point?