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Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, Charles Kushner among those pardoned by Trump - ABC News

AfricanKing

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Just like Obama and Bush. So they should be fine to run for Congress.

Besides, culpability for war crimes is supposed to go up the CoC, not stay with the mooks. At least, that's what we heard when the pearls got clutched over Salami (even though he committed a war crime in attacking an embassy).

Pulling a whatabout is not going to work. These men actively killed kids and where convicted. Do you like releasing convicted kid killers?
 

Arkam

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Arkam Arkam , I summon thee. Explain the comedy in pardoning convicted child murderers.
(Had to type this twice due to iOS bs. Sorry if less coherent)
Which child murderers? The black water folk? As someone who followed this in real time it was a he said/she said at best. The got attacked and may or may not have reacted accordingly. Anyone who has been shot at knows that heads are less than clear when it happens.

these guys were dragged through the mud to appease international “allies”. No evidence was ever presented and it came and (very) bad time.
Calling them war criminals is nothing but a Rorschach test as no objective evidence was ever produced. An ied attack happened, they wee in charge of evac and they (believed) they were attacked and responded. It’s possible they reacted poorly but that is far from murder when one considers the situation and who asked them to be there.

Unless you wanted to talk about something else, you will need to specify.

Edit: so pardons seem fine if one believes they were left to dry by the US govt. A perspective, but far from radical by any standard.
 
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infinitys_7th

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Pulling a whatabout is not going to work. These men actively killed kids and where convicted. Do you like releasing convicted kid killers?

They were hired to kill kids. To get nerdy, do the High Lords of Terra not hold culpability for all the collateral damage an Eversor they authorized to get dropped somewhere does? The government knows what it was doing and what sorts these people are.

And it's not whataboutism - it's a demonstration of what power lets you get away with. Obama can drone an underage US citizen and no one bats an eye or charges him. Even all the international bluster about taking Bush to the Hague fell away instantly.
 
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haxan7

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Your first instinct is to immediately downplay criticism of convincted war criminals.

I merely submit to you the humble submission that maybe you are slightly biased. You owe nothing to me, or my bloodline.
Thanks for the offer, but I wholeheartedly reject your submissions.
 
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Punished Miku

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(Had to type this twice due to iOS bs. Sorry if less coherent)
Which child murderers? The black water folk? As someone who followed this in real time it was a he said/she said at best. The got attacked and may or may not have reacted accordingly. Anyone who has been shot at knows that heads are less than clear when it happens.

these guys were dragged through the mud to appease international “allies”. No evidence was ever presented and it came and (very) bad time.
Calling them war criminals is nothing but a Rorschach test as no objective evidence was ever produced. An ied attack happened, they wee in charge of evac and they (believed) they were attacked and responded. It’s possible they reacted poorly but that is far from murder when one considers the situation and who asked them to be there.

Unless you wanted to talk about something else, you will need to specify.
Hilarious! Let me laugh x3.

Those victim eye witness statements were surely an error! Hilarious! This is a humorous misunderstanding!

P.S. you guys are laughing right? murder? funny?
 
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Arkam

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Hilarious! Let me laugh x3.

Those victim eye witness statements were surely an error! Hilarious! This is a humorous misunderstanding!
You have clearly never been shot at or seen a human murder another. (That’s good) I have. In fact I was one of a half dozen witnesses to a murder. There were half a dozen accounts of the murder. None more valid than the other.

assuming one witness is superior to another is pure clown shoes.
 
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Punished Miku

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You have clearly never been shot at or seen a human murder another. (That’s good) I have. In fact I was one of a half dozen witnesses to a murder. There were half a dozen accounts of the murder. None more valid than the other.

assuming one witness is superior to another is pure clown shoes.
Were you convicted of murder? These guys were.

I have nothing but the most utmost respect for your personal post history, and your avatar. It's just your recent post history that compels me to dissent.
 
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Arkam

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Were you convicted of murder? These guys were.

I have nothing but the most utmost respect for your personal post history, and your avatar. It's just your recent post history that compels me to dissent.
My point is that the conviction is not an absolute truth of their guilt. They absolutely may have been fuck weeds who murdered folks.... but is equally likely they just reacted appropriately and (relatively) innocent people got killed. So to assume one side or the other is a projection of personal belief.

further edit: so if trump feels they got raw dawgged, more power to him and them. Pardons are far from a morale litmus test.
 
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Punished Miku

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My point is that the conviction is not an absolute truth of their guilt.
It was actually a conviction according to US law.

I guess US law is a joke though right?

P.S. You're a good guy. Abandon this losing position. Salvage your credibility.
 
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Madonis

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(Had to type this twice due to iOS bs. Sorry if less coherent)
Which child murderers? The black water folk? As someone who followed this in real time it was a he said/she said at best. The got attacked and may or may not have reacted accordingly. Anyone who has been shot at knows that heads are less than clear when it happens.

these guys were dragged through the mud to appease international “allies”. No evidence was ever presented and it came and (very) bad time.
Calling them war criminals is nothing but a Rorschach test as no objective evidence was ever produced. An ied attack happened, they wee in charge of evac and they (believed) they were attacked and responded. It’s possible they reacted poorly but that is far from murder when one considers the situation and who asked them to be there.

There's quite a bit of information about what happened in that situation and it doesn't make these fellows, nor those who choose to defend them using numerous euphemisms, look any better.

 
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desertdroog

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If you don't like the people the Executive Branch pardoned. Then work to remove that power from the Executive Branch.

Or continue to yell into the darkness. No one really cares. Every President has controversial Pardons, this is nothing new.
 
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Thirty7ven

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Pardoning Kushner is just LMAO This trash bag doesn’t care! And his supporters are retarded enough to play along.
 
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Bernd Lauert

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I'll just point out that Trump pardoned all the guys who refused to testify against him and none of the ones that did, including his attorney that named him as a co-conspirator in election finance crime. Ignore it if you want but it happened.

"Muh co-conspirator" might be a nice talking point for the types of people who watch Rachel Maddow, but everyone who thinks Cohen went to prison for not declaring a campaign contribution is an idiot. He was in prison for tax fraud and perjury. If Trump is indeed guilty of a campaign finance violation, he's gonna pay a small fine and that's gonna be it.
 

DeepEnigma

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"Muh co-conspirator" might be a nice talking point for the types of people who watch Rachel Maddow, but everyone who thinks Cohen went to prison for not declaring a campaign contribution is an idiot. He was in prison for tax fraud and perjury. If Trump is indeed guilty of a campaign finance violation, he's gonna pay a small fine and that's gonna be it.
Yep, just like presidents or candidates did before him. Even the do no wrong Obama was guilty of this stuff and guess what.... paid a fine.
 
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Authoritarian tone-controllers and guilty-until-proven-innocent race grifters trying to browbeat others in this thread.

The same people that endorse violence on others, in service of agendas, hoping to make themselves seem pious by throwing stones at alleged wrongthinkers.

These toxic miscreants of society deserve engagement no deeper than to remind others of their inhumanity and hypocrisies.
 
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Nobody_Important

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Trump is proving every single accusation of corruption and callousness towards him correct in the final weeks of his presidency. He never really hid it very well, but now he isn't even trying to hide it at all.
 
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oagboghi2

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Trump is proving every single accusation of corruption and callousness towards him correct in the final weeks of his presidency. He never really hid it very well, but now he isn't even trying to hide it at all.
😂 Cry more please.
Authoritarian tone-controllers and guilty-until-proven-innocent race grifters trying to browbeat others in this thread.

The same people that endorse violence on others, in service of agendas, hoping to make themselves seem pious by throwing stones at alleged wrongthinkers.

These toxic miscreants of society deserve engagement no deeper than to remind others of their inhumanity and hypocrisies.
Would you expect anything less.
 
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cryptoadam

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Presidential pardons are alway going to be controversial, your letting someone out of jail.

Clinton let out a terrorist and pardoned his brother.

The blackwater one comes off as really bad and he will probably take a lot of heat for it. Lets keep in mind though we find out there is a lot of bullshitery coming out of the ME like the stories about chemical weapons in Syria or the Times giving back a peabody for its fake ISIS soldier.

Really don't know enough about it to just say on the surface it comes off really bad. Maybe people in his inner circle convinced him of the Blackwater version of events and he went with that.
 

oagboghi2

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Hilarious! Let me laugh x3.

Those victim eye witness statements were surely an error! Hilarious! This is a humorous misunderstanding!

P.S. you guys are laughing right? murder? funny?
I'm laughing at the hypocrisy, yes

Presidential pardons are alway going to be controversial, your letting someone out of jail.

Clinton let out a terrorist and pardoned his brother.

The blackwater one comes off as really bad and he will probably take a lot of heat for it. Lets keep in mind though we find out there is a lot of bullshitery coming out of the ME like the stories about chemical weapons in Syria or the Times giving back a peabody for its fake ISIS soldier.

Really don't know enough about it to just say on the surface it comes off really bad. Maybe people in his inner circle convinced him of the Blackwater version of events and he went with that.
People are acting like it was a clear cut case, but it wasn't. Blackwater has disputed the claim forever, and they have just as much evidence as the other side. Eyewitnesses accounts of what actually happened.

This is just the typical liberal crowd wanting to bitch about anything Trump does

The people crying about this voted for a party who wants to send troops and pmc like blackwater back to the ME anyway. What, do they think shit like this won't happen anymore now that Biden photo is on the wall?
 
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cryptoadam

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I'm laughing at the hypocrisy, yes


People are acting like it was a clear cut case, but it wasn't. Blackwater has disputed the claim forever, and they have just as much evidence as the other side. Eyewitnesses accounts of what actually happened.

This is just the typical liberal crowd wanting to bitch about anything Trump does

The people crying about this voted for a party who wants to send troops and pmc like blackwater back to the ME anyway. What, do they think shit like this won't happen anymore now that Biden photo is on the wall?

All I know is that if something is coming out of the mid east you need to side eye it and look extra deep into it.

I have seen plenty of Pallywood to know that.

So like you said there are two sides to this story. I haven't looked to deep into it so I can't make anything outside of a surface level judgement.

Whatever people will bitch for a while and then move on.
 

DeepBreath87

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Do you support this? Pardoning convicted murderers? I know we never agree on anything, but I thought that even you would have a problem with this.
I don’t support this. But I’m not losing sleep over it either. Pardoning some guys who were putting their lives on the line on the other side of the planet? I mean I don’t know how to even rationalize the world they were living in.

War is a difficult thing. I’m glad they were punished. I’m also not convinced they should’ve spent the rest of their lives in prison. It’s a war. I’m skeptical of these pardons. That’s the most I can muster. Maybe these guys were bloodthirsty, remorseless killers. Maybe they were living in hell and made the wrong decision. I don’t know. Considering no one else was ever punished for all the lies that sent our people to that shit hole, I just can’t get that outraged about this.
 

oagboghi2

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I know you generally love to troll, but I know that even you can tell I have a point here. The fact you keep dodging and dancing around it tells me all I need to know.
Calling out your bullshit is not trolling NI, and I'm not going to join your fake democrat outrage. I don't know whether these guys are Stone Cold serial killers, as you want them to be so badly, or just guys who reacted badly in a warzone.

So no, I'm not going to virtue signall over this like you are. As I've previously stated, if events like this bother you so much, and than you vote for a party that plans to send troops back, I have no patience for you
 

Nobody_Important

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Calling out your bullshit is not trolling NI, and I'm not going to join your fake democrat outrage. I don't know whether these guys are Stone Cold serial killers, as you want them to be so badly, or just guys who reacted badly in a warzone.

So no, I'm not going to virtue signall over this like you are. As I've previously stated, if events like this bother you so much, and than you vote for a party that plans to send troops back, I have no patience for you
Just assumptions and more assumptions. And then insults based on those assumptions. Same shit different day even when it comes to something like this. I don't know why I'm surprised by you anymore.
 

oagboghi2

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Just assumptions and more assumptions. And then insults based on those assumptions. Same shit different day even when it comes to something like this. I don't know why I'm surprised by you anymore.
Yes dumbass, I am assuming a lot of things because I wasn't there. Same as you.

I'm never suprised by any of your stupidity, because you are fueled solely by your hate for Trump. You can't even imagine the possibility the situation is not as black and white as you think it is.

If you don't like my reasoning, than please put me on ignore.
 

INCUBASE

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Fill the swamp, fill the swamp!

Shame that now non trumpist i.e normal Republicans, are now tarred with being called kiddie killer sympathisers

How progressive of trump, so brave
 
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People are literally ignoring the information that they are CONVICTED MURDERERS. This isn't even some bullshit "support the troops" situation, they were mercenaries working for the brother of the now Secretary of Education. Not a good look.
Your deflection effort doesn't disprove my point. Quite the opposite.
 
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Tesseract

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if i ran a band of mercs in a war zone, i'd prolly want the most egregious reputation around

america ain't a signatory of international law that says merc activity is illegal and since all wars are crimes, you gotta give enough space for unforeseen events and questionable circumstances

the fbi report looks like it was dashed to force guilty verdicts w / inconclusive forensics, tainted statements, plenty bones of contention re: weapon charges and what constitutes a battlefield encounter gone wrong

urbina ruled that the justice mishandled evidence and violated constitutional rights, for example

as for stone, good

he got a raw deal in the ways various agencies treated him

hope these pardons make the fbi squirm
 

Aces&Eights

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I don’t support this. But I’m not losing sleep over it either. Pardoning some guys who were putting their lives on the line on the other side of the planet? I mean I don’t know how to even rationalize the world they were living in.

War is a difficult thing. I’m glad they were punished. I’m also not convinced they should’ve spent the rest of their lives in prison. It’s a war. I’m skeptical of these pardons. That’s the most I can muster. Maybe these guys were bloodthirsty, remorseless killers. Maybe they were living in hell and made the wrong decision. I don’t know. Considering no one else was ever punished for all the lies that sent our people to that shit hole, I just can’t get that outraged about this.
This is spot on. It's so easy to armchair people's lives when you don't have a clue what is happening 10,000 miles away. If the CIAs hit list and "accidental casualty" list was laid open for public eyes, a few mercs causing collateral damage would be waaaaaay down the at the bottom. I don't think people really grasp the fuckery the government does in the shadows. Or, they don't care unless MSN leads with it and there is an opportunity to point fingers at the current president.
 

QuantumZebra

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Looks awfully swampy to me

Drain the swamp was no different than a closet gay dude yelling about ban the gays

Just projection and diversion tactics

Seeing people trip over themselves to apologize for Trump being a shitty person (as he has literally always been) is hilarious
 
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belmarduk

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this is such a tired, lazy argument

try again

It really isn’t. The Blackwater guards were convicted of murdering innocent children. They absolutely did not deserve a pardon and I would feel the same way if Obama, Biden or any other Democratic president did the same.
 
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