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Pelosi declines to endorse Sen. Bernie Sanders' single-payer healthcare bill

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eBay Huckster

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The problem with single payer is that all Americans will hear is "tax increase". To pass something like this it would need to take effect almost immediately, because there will be huge political blowback and folks will be voted out of office.

The other problem is a public option literally has the same end result (most likely, anyway) but doesn't provide a catastrophic (if temporary) shock to a $3 trillion sector of a $19 trillion economy in the process
 

RPGCrazied

Member
Oct 14, 2007
39,340
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Its fantasy. Sure, I'd love to have a single payer system, but Republicans(which you need), will never sign onto that.
 

Netherscourge

Banned
Sep 13, 2013
12,532
1
0
Lovely.

---Bernie has no chance to get this passed without full Democratic support AND Trump support.

---Pelosi has no chance to save the ACA without Trump's support and Bernie's support. And Trump won't sign anything with Obama's name on it.

Same old clusterfuck Congress. All individual agendas.
 

Guevara

Member
Jul 27, 2009
24,808
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Democrats want to raise YOUR taxes by $3 TRILLION and use it to fund ABORTIONS for ILLEGAL immigrants.
 

Skellig Gra

Member
Aug 24, 2007
20,771
2
1,195
Goddamnit Pelosi dont do this

Get on the same page Democrats

Infighting is not the answer

Why is it Pelosi's fault though? Bernie is barely a Democrat to begin with, I doubt he vetted this bill past all the major players before announcing it.
 

DrROBschiz

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Feb 9, 2013
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Isn't the ACA just a first step anyways?

I get wanting to fight to keep it from being dismantled but it needs to be addressed at some point

They could propose something new that Republicans couldn't agree upon

I dunno these are tricky times
 

Kyzer

Banned
Jan 7, 2009
11,984
1
0
Moderate Democrat:

Let's not get carried away

I've got to protect the insurance companies too
Far left:

Proudly declares self not to be moderate and proposes impossible bills that will never pass at the expense of all progress in order to win imaginary "who is the most liberal contest"
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Sep 20, 2014
32,454
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Lovely.

---Bernie has no chance to get this passed without full Democratic support AND Trump support.

---Pelosi has no chance to save the ACA without Trump's support and Bernie's support. And Trump won't sign anything with Obama's name on it.

Same old clusterfuck Congress. All individual agendas.


This isn't passing regardless of what Pelosi does
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Feb 9, 2013
19,768
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Yeah if Trump is proof of anything its that scorched earth policy proposals arent going to work

I hope that Bernie is being smarter about this and is willing the work with and unify under something that will actually work

No more attacking the base Bernie
 

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
Nov 4, 2013
9,396
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SIngle-Payer is a type of universal health care.

The issue with Obamacare is that it isn't real health insurance

Health insurance that still bankrupts you when you have to use it is not health insurance. its merely a scam.

Yep, it's like hey you can pay $300 a month to have health insurance where you still won't have the money to pay for treatment if anything happens to you.

It's worth having for limiting the debt you take on, but it's still an awful excuse of a Healthcare system.
 

klonere

Banned
Jan 26, 2015
11,404
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0
Private insurance still exists in countries with universal healthcare.

I live in one of those countries. I am between providers right now. If tripped and fell, I won't be in massive debt for years to come if I go to a hospital.

There is a difference.
 

kirblar

Member
Oct 9, 2010
63,315
1
860
I live in one of those countries. I am between providers right now. If tripped and fell, I won't be in massive debt for years to come if I go to a hospital.

There is a difference.
Fixing that problem does not require single payer.
 

Fenderputty

Banned
Apr 14, 2008
23,121
0
0
Cali
Far left: demands that the Minority Leader endorse a bill that's not going to pass while she needs to get the DREAM Act and at least three other legislative priorities passed

It's wild. Two threads dropped last night that had to do with Pelosi. The one about Pelosi meeting with Ryan regarding DACA got no love. The far left was too busy poo pooing her here. Mind numbing ...
 

legacyzero

Banned
Feb 20, 2011
27,932
306
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Fixing that problem does not require single payer.
In our Corporatocracy? It probably does.
It's wild. Two threads dropped last night that had to do with Pelosi. The one about Pelosi meeting with Ryan regarding DACA got no love. The far left was too busy poo pooing her here. Mind numbing ...
Because she doesn't have a disagreeable position on DACA. That argument is one large straw man. Meanwhile Pelosi's stance on "let's protect the ACA!!" In a GOP majority congress that have only barely failed. I would argue that the Democrats had little to do with this, but constituents coming out to protest in town hall meetings, where even conservative voters stood against the repeal, and social media campaigns. Sure the dems yelled on the Hill, and did their part to spread the word. But I really feel that ACA's time is limited under this government. They aren't going to stop trying to repeal it. It's a race to the bottom here, and if your only message is "NOOooo doooont!'" And not trying to capitalize on the audience and good will you have with the President with a message that isn't more than "leave ACA alone, K?" I just don't know how excited I am for that.

Ya don't like Bernie. We get it. I myself am not particularly in love with the bill, particularly not giving details on how to pay for it. But let's not play around on the "Muh Pelosi!" junk. We all agree that she has a good stance on DACA, and we're glad she's going to bat for it. But hat thread fell because there isn't a contentious debate to be had on it. We all agree on it.

This thread IS.
 

FiggyCal

Banned
Aug 20, 2013
7,033
0
0
I don't understand why multiple people are pushing for single-payer now, when it definitely won't pass. No republican will support this, including the one in the white house.
 

BertramCooper

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Sep 3, 2009
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1
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In our Corporatocracy? It probably does.

The public-option-on-steroids approach could potentially get us to single-payer. I prefer public option-based plans that will eventually kill the employer-based market over a straight-up single-payer-now plan.

I don't think many of us would disagree that single-payer is a desirable final destination; the disagreement comes from the best way to get there.
 

hawkshockey11

Banned
Mar 22, 2010
2,161
0
0
Far left:

Proudly declares self not to be moderate and proposes impossible bills that will never pass at the expense of all progress in order to win imaginary "who is the most liberal contest"

universal healthcare is not being proposed by people to "have the most liberal position." The richest country on earth has no excuse for not having universal healthcare.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Jun 8, 2004
28,904
1
1,645
Bernie Sanders can fuck right off.

We are in the middle of a fight to keep a million Americans from being deported by a fuckshit of a president and he wants to start in-fighting within the party to pull us left that will fracture the party further and make it harder to gain a majority in Congress.

And he is starting this fight over a bill that HE KNOWS is DOA and has no fucking chance of becoming law in the next 3 years because of principal™. He is the lefts Ron Paul.

Fuck that guy. He's not a fucking democrat. Go back to being an independent and getting your rocks off by being super liberal man (except for gunz) on your own time.
 
Aug 10, 2009
4,960
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I don't understand why multiple people are pushing for single-payer now, when it definitely won't pass. No republican will support this, including the one in the white house.

So they can have it on record next year in the midterms. Dems get to say "Hey, we actually have a plan to fix healthcare" in contrast to the GOP's repeal and replace debacle.

(How well this will actually work out though is questionable, given how often half the country turns out to vote against ~out of control hover spending~)
 

googleplex

Member
Jun 7, 2010
9,069
1
0
Bernie Sanders can fuck right off.

We are in the middle of a fight to keep a million Americans from being deported by a fuckshit of a president and he wants to start in-fighting within the party to pull us left that will fracture the party further and make it harder to gain a majority in Congress.

Fuck that guy. He's not a fucking democrat. Go back to being an independent and getting your rocks off by being super liberal man (except for gunz) on your own time.

Been my stance on Bernie and his theatrics for a while now. Thank God he's not the future of the Democratic party.
 

clevbrowns94

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Feb 20, 2015
878
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Goddamnit Pelosi dont do this

Get on the same page Democrats

Infighting is not the answer

No, align behind fixing Obamacare and keeping it alive. If you don't win back the House, it could still be killed. Then when you have 60 votes in Senate and the House, you can talk about public option or single payer.
 
Aug 17, 2006
7,687
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1,055
I don't understand why multiple people are pushing for single-payer now, when it definitely won't pass. No republican will support this, including the one in the white house.

Or maybe this is a Republican tech we need to copy. Remember the yearly "Repeal Obamacare" thing? We should do the exact same thing. Keep it in the public consciousness as they don't seem to give a damn that their tax payer dollars were used for Repeal protest.

TBH I get Pelosi is thinking realistically but maybe it's still good optics to support it even with the understanding that it won't go anywhere - it's the meaning that counts, and she can still continue chasing the more realistic option.
 

E-Cat

Member
Jan 14, 2013
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I will wait until I see the long game, Pelosi been killing it lately with strategy
The long game: All the old neo-lib corporatists will be dead and still no Universal Health Care.

ffs, Pelosi. Even milktoast Cory Booker now supports the bill.

Last week (via spokeswoman):

A spokeswoman for Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.), another possible candidate, referred to Booker's interview with Vox in April. He said then that ”I believe, ultimately, in ideas like single payer or Medicare for all," while adding that ”I don't know how we get it done in this environment."

Exactly one week later:

"This is something that's got to happen. ObamaCare was a first step in advancing this country, but I won't rest until every American has a basic security that comes with having access to affordable health care," Booker told the New Jersey outlet.

Huh? That was a shockingly swift reversal. Not hedging so much now, are we, Cory-boy?

You know what this means? The progressive wing of the party is crushing the corporate Dems right now, winning in the realm of ideas. The old guard needs to gtfo, ASAP.
 

Armaros

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Sep 18, 2013
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So they can have it on record next year in the midterms. Dems get to say "Hey, we actually have a plan to fix healthcare" in contrast to the GOP's repeal and replace debacle.

(How well this will actually work out though is questionable, given how often half the country turns out to vote against ~out of control hover spending~)

But saying 'we will pay for it with tax increases, don't ask me for specifics' is not really having a plan and is horrible optics for midterms.

It just gives the GOP ammo in the form of 'well we got nothing done but the Democrsts want to increase your taxes and refuse to give any specifics!'
 
Aug 29, 2009
37,723
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Not GAF, lol
universal healthcare is not being proposed by people to "have the most liberal position." The richest country on earth has no excuse for not having universal healthcare.

You're confusing universal healthcare with single payer. Single payer is UH, but it's not the only path towards UH. 100% of the Democrats want UH. It's part of the platform and they would all vote for some form of UH.

UH isn't good enough for some people, even if it's functionally the same result whether it's single payer, a public option, highly subsidized private insurance, or whatever.
 

FiggyCal

Banned
Aug 20, 2013
7,033
0
0
Or maybe this is a Republican tech we need to copy. Remember the yearly "Repeal Obamacare" thing? We should do the exact same thing. Keep it in the public consciousness as they don't seem to give a damn that their tax payer dollars were used for Repeal protest.

TBH I get Pelosi is thinking realistically but maybe it's still good optics to support it even with the understanding that it won't go anywhere - it's the meaning that counts, and she can still continue chasing the more realistic option.

I mean it was pathetic when the republicans kept doing it, I don't know why it's not pathetic now. Like I have zero % interest in the bill.

Maybe it will get people out to midterms if they're exited by the idea. But I'm not really sure. I don't know if this is a strategy that has actually worked for the Republicans.
 

BertramCooper

Banned
Sep 3, 2009
34,222
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I get the rhetorical power of single-payer, and I don't necessarily blame the reps and senators who are allying with Sanders on it.

But Jesus Christ, I really wish we could have a thoughtful discussion on the benefits of a public option-based approach.

All of the hubbub the past year over these hundreds of counties with only one (previously none whatsoever) insurers - what a perfect opportunity to start talking about how a public option would be hugely beneficial for these places.
 

Aaronrules380

Member
Feb 19, 2013
15,791
0
0
So they can have it on record next year in the midterms. Dems get to say "Hey, we actually have a plan to fix healthcare" in contrast to the GOP's repeal and replace debacle.

(How well this will actually work out though is questionable, given how often half the country turns out to vote against ~out of control hover spending~)

The dems are actually working on other, far more possible and reasonable plans right now
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Jun 8, 2004
28,904
1
1,645
So they can have it on record next year in the midterms. Dems get to say "Hey, we actually have a plan to fix healthcare" in contrast to the GOP's repeal and replace debacle.

(How well this will actually work out though is questionable, given how often half the country turns out to vote against ~out of control hover spending~)

Single payer healthcare is not a popular opinion. It is currently at it's highest approval ratings of all time at 33%.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...er-health-coverage-grows-driven-by-democrats/

And that is before it becomes an actual battle over legislation and the Republicans tar and feather it and start beating it up.

This is not only a non-starter, this is a losing position for the Dems. I believe in Universal healthcare, but this is buying a new door mat while the house is on fire. We have other real priorities right now to consider.

This is the equivalent of asking for a raise in the middle of being fired.
 

Jotaka

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May 17, 2013
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So Bernie guy want to look good for people but has no realistic plan... Populist bullshit, I saw a lot of that in my third world country.
 

eBay Huckster

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Aug 1, 2009
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TBH I get Pelosi is thinking realistically but maybe it's still good optics to support it even with the understanding that it won't go anywhere

Endless virtue signaling about policies without specifics or any chance of actually getting them through the process is what got us the 112th through 115th Congresses.

(And pretty much everyone in the caucus is on board with a minimum of the public option at this point.)
 

FiggyCal

Banned
Aug 20, 2013
7,033
0
0
I get the rhetorical power of single-payer, and I don't necessarily blame the reps and senators who are allying with Sanders on it.

But Jesus Christ, I really wish we could have a thoughtful discussion on the benefits of a public option-based approach.

All of the hubbub the past year over these hundreds of counties with only one (previously none whatsoever) insurers - what a perfect opportunity to start talking about how a public option would be hugely beneficial for these places.

That seems like such a natural step from Obamacare and probably a lot more practical.
 

E-Cat

Member
Jan 14, 2013
4,148
709
725
So Bernie guy want to look good for people but has no realistic plan... Populist bullshit, I saw a lot of that in my third world country.
Why is it not a realistic plan if every other modern country can do it?
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Jun 8, 2004
28,904
1
1,645
I get the rhetorical power of single-payer, and I don't necessarily blame the reps and senators who are allying with Sanders on it.

But Jesus Christ, I really wish we could have a thoughtful discussion on the benefits of a public option-based approach.

All of the hubbub the past year over these hundreds of counties with only one (previously none whatsoever) insurers - what a perfect opportunity to start talking about how a public option would be hugely beneficial for these places.

This is what we should be doing. We should be talking about progressive policies that can solve real problems now that have some chance of being implemented at least at as state level. Now that Obamacare is around for another year or so (most likely) maybe we can fight for steps towards getting more Americans insured for more affordable rates.
 

Kusagari

Member
Dec 29, 2005
47,639
3
0
Gainesville FL
The long game: All the old neo-lib corporatists will be dead and the Americans still won't have Universal Healthcare.

ffs, Pelosi. Even milktoast Cory Booker now supports the bill.

Last week (via spokeswoman):



Exactly one week later:



Huh? That was a shockingly swift reversal. Not hedging so much now, are we, Cory-boy?

You know what this means? The progressive wing of the party is crushing the corporate Dems right now, winning in the realm of ideas. The old guard needs to gtfo, ASAP.

Booker is supporting it because he knows this bill is going nowhere and you're at a complete disadvantage in 2020 if you don't back this.
 

legacyzero

Banned
Feb 20, 2011
27,932
306
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Nebraska
www.youtube.com
It's wild. Two threads dropped last night that had to do with Pelosi. The one about Pelosi meeting with Ryan regarding DACA got no love. The far left was too busy poo pooing her here. Mind numbing ...
Because she doesn't have a disagreeable position on DACA. That argument is one large straw man. Meanwhile Pelosi's stance on "let's protect the ACA!!" In a GOP majority congress that have only barely failed. I would argue that the Democrats had little to do with this, but constituents coming out to protest in town hall meetings, where even conservative voters stood against the repeal, and social media campaigns. Sure the dems yelled on the Hill, and did their part to spread the word. But I really feel that ACA's time is limited under this government. They aren't going to stop trying to repeal it. It's a race to the bottom here, and if your only message is "NOOooo doooont!'" And not trying to capitalize on the audience and good will you have with the President with a message that isn't more than "leave ACA alone, K?" I just don't know how excited I am for that.

Ya don't like Bernie. We get it. I myself am not particularly in love with the bill, particularly not giving details on how to pay for it. But let's not play around on the "Muh Pelosi!" junk. We all agree that she has a good stance on DACA, and we're glad she's going to bat for it. But hat thread fell because there isn't a contentious debate to be had on it. We all agree on it.

This thread IS.
The public-option-on-steroids approach could potentially get us to single-payer. I prefer public option-based plans that will eventually kill the employer-based market over a straight-up single-payer-now plan.

I don't think many of us would disagree that single-payer is a desirable final destination; the disagreement comes from the best way to get there.
Oh I'm with you there. At least it's a leap. Americans are tire of incrementalism and it shows. I'm even partially agree with Pelosi that it Medicae-for-all doesn't need to be a litmus test. But I question her on where exactly she wants all this to go aside from "the ACA is just fine". No, Nancy. It isn't just fine. But we should be moving in a nice direction, and yeah, public option would certainly be that.
 

FiggyCal

Banned
Aug 20, 2013
7,033
0
0
Because she doesn't have a disagreeable position on DACA. That argument is one large straw man. Meanwhile Pelosi's stance on "let's protect the ACA!!" In a GOP majority congress that have only barely failed. I would argue that the Democrats had little to do with this, but constituents coming out to protest in town hall meetings, where even conservative voters stood against the repeal, and social media campaigns. Sure the dems yelled on the Hill, and did their part to spread the word. But I really feel that ACA's time is limited under this government. They aren't going to stop trying to repeal it. It's a race to the bottom here, and if your only message is "NOOooo doooont!'" And not trying to capitalize on the audience and good will you have with the President with a message that isn't more than "leave ACA alone, K?" I just don't know how excited I am for that.

Ya don't like Bernie. We get it. I myself am not particularly in love with the bill, particularly not giving details on how to pay for it. But let's not play around on the "Muh Pelosi!" junk. We all agree that she has a good stance on DACA, and we're glad she's going to bat for it. But hat thread fell because there isn't a contentious debate to be had on it. We all agree on it.

This thread IS.

I like Bernie!

But this situation is strange to me.
 
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