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Drama People seem to think I’m ruining gaming because I like 30fps…

rofif

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Sep 13, 2019
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30 fps is awful, do you also want to eat food from a trash can?
Oh f off. I prefer 120 and 240 food but 30 is totally fine with correct motion blur. The same goes for 60. It also needs it. I like to repost this.

30fps can look similar to a lot more but if course it is slow and laggy... Except gears of war trilogy, uncharted 4, Bloodborne and all the games we all enjoyed greatly on 30,..

It is fine. I prefer nice graphics or just do dynamic 4k60
 
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rofif

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You can play 30fps, I'm actually jealous if you can enjoy that, I unfortunately cannot. After Demons Souls PS5 at 60fps I cant go back now.
That is a good example of super laggy 30fps mode. I thought I was crazy... No 30fps can't be that bad... And it's not. Launch Bloodborne. It is so much more faster and less laggy at 30fps vs Des.
Like how?! Maybe that's why bb have minor frame pacing issues because they deliver them quick.

Btw I have on 120hz 4k 48" OLED in my face. I had 240hz monitor to in the past
 
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Neo_game

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I have no problems in 30fps. Though if someone is into online shooters, fighting games, racing sims then definitely those 16-17ms helps. The faster the game runs chances are you can do better. IMO kb+mouse gives you advantage in FPS games.
 

Scotty W

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What do you mean 8-bit and 16-bit games had FPS? Most games in that generation round at 60 frames per second.
I have confused smoothness of movement and animation with fps.

I agree with you that people would see the difference instantly by way of comparison. But most people don’t miss what they don’t know they are missing. Are you missing 1056 fps? Of course not, but you will once it is possible.

I will say it again: people on gaming forums understand games very well, but because they misunderstand casual gamers, they misunderstand the industry (not you specifically D Dunky )
 
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rodrigolfp

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Never noticed or cared about it. It does not affect the playability of the game or the fun factor. And given the millions of people who bought it and loved it, most didn't give a flying shit either.
The majority also plays with auto-aim on. It's expected from the majority of casual players to have very low standards...
 
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I find it hit and miss with some games playing at 30fps. For example Ghost of Tsushima on the ps4 pro at 30fps was playable for me, but Final Fantasy 7 Remake at 30fps was absolutely atrocious! It will always depend on how well optimised a game is ultimately.
 

01011001

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I have confused smoothness of movement and animation with fps.

I agree with you that people would see the difference instantly by way of comparison. But most people don’t miss what they don’t know they are missing. Are you missing 1056 fps? Of course not, but you will once it is possible.

I will say it again: people on gaming forums understand games very well, but because they misunderstand casual gamers, they misunderstand the industry (not you specifically D Dunky )

explain how almost all of the top games in terms of popularity run (or try to run) at 60fps even on console?
Fortnite, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Apex Legends, FIFA, Madden, [(games that basically run at 60+ on every toaster) LoL, Valorant, CS:GO], Mario kart 8, Super Smash Bros, Minecraft...
what a weird coinkidink, isn't it?
 

Kenpachii

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Never noticed or cared about it. It does not affect the playability of the game or the fun factor. And given the millions of people who bought it and loved it, most didn't give a flying shit either.



Yes, because they are easy to digest and had been continuously pushing forward the MP during its heyday. Being 60FPS had nothing to do with it.

U not caring for it is just you not caring for it. Mllions of people played 2d pacman not wanting a 3d mario because there argument is millions of people played 2d pacman so 2d is the best anyway nobody cares. is also just them being special. time moves forwards and so are demands.

About your it doesn't effect playability well it does effect the playability, which is why shooters even on consoles have 60 fps by default and PS5 starts to dig into the 100hz gaming same with microsoft for shooters now because motion clarity + input delay reduction is very real. Once a console gamer plays his game at 120hz and then moves back with the next installment towards 30, and the competition has 120, he will most likely not return towards that 30. its that bad.

It's so bad that there is a entire market for this already for decades on PC. Its the sole reason for people to upgrade also.




30 fps completely kills the presentation.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

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U not caring for it is just you not caring for it. Mllions of people played 2d pacman not wanting a 3d mario because there argument is millions of people played 2d pacman so 2d is the best anyway nobody cares. is also just them being special. time moves forwards and so are demands.

About your it doesn't effect playability well it does effect the playability, which is why shooters even on consoles have 60 fps by default and PS5 starts to dig into the 100hz gaming same with microsoft for shooters now because motion clarity + input delay reduction is very real. Once a console gamer plays his game at 120hz and then moves back with the next installment towards 30, and the competition has 120, he will most likely not return towards that 30. its that bad.

It's so bad that there is a entire market for this already for decades on PC. Its the sole reason for people to upgrade also.




30 fps completely kills the presentation.

If it completely killed the competition, then people would not have continued to play, buy, and recommend it. If 30 FPS was so detrimental, why are so many perfectly fine with playing in 30 FPS instead of the 60 FPS modes? The reality is that most don't care. They don't care if a game has some input lag (especially in predominantly single player games). They don't care if a game runs at 30 FPS over 60 or 120. They just want to play well made games with good storylines, fun gameplay, and interesting mechanics. Being 30 FPS, despite your claims, does not preclude a game from being any of these things or getting a market share of attention. Hell, TLOU2 (despite it being a title I loathe), launched at 30 FPS and the vast majority of people didn't give a flying fuck, despite many playing the previous game at 60 FPS from the PS4 remaster.

It doesn't matter. It never has outside of tiny group of people. The aforementioned two groups I mentioned before and the even tinier, miniscule "competitive" scene of world class gamers. Which I can guarantee you, not a single person on this forum is despite what they may think of themselves.
 

01011001

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If it completely killed the competition, then people would not have continued to play, buy, and recommend it. If 30 FPS was so detrimental, why are so many perfectly fine with playing in 30 FPS instead of the 60 FPS modes? The reality is that most don't care. They don't care if a game has some input lag (especially in predominantly single player games). They don't care if a game runs at 30 FPS over 60 or 120. They just want to play well made games with good storylines, fun gameplay, and interesting mechanics. Being 30 FPS, despite your claims, does not preclude a game from being any of these things or getting a market share of attention. Hell, TLOU2 (despite it being a title I loathe), launched at 30 FPS and the vast majority of people didn't give a flying fuck, despite many playing the previous game at 60 FPS from the PS4 remaster.

It doesn't matter. It never has outside of tiny group of people. The aforementioned two groups I mentioned before and the even tinier, miniscule "competitive" scene of world class gamers. Which I can guarantee you, not a single person on this forum is despite what they may think of themselves.

casual players don't care, we shouldn't use them as the standard to strive for tho. 30fps sucks, end of story. just because people are ok with it that are casual consumers doesn't mean it's good or even ok.

during the PS360 gen people were ok with 20fps... should we drop to that next just because FarCry 3 sold millions on PS3 running at 20fps? people didn't care right? so it's good right?
should we go back to the million seller GoldenEye and run at below 10fps? sold 8 million copies even on an underperforming platform as well! and it got great reviews! 10fps is therefore totally fine!
why stop there? people were fine with 240p 10 to 20 fps on N64, let's go back to that too because, 8 million people bought it so it must be ok!

and you can see it the other way around as well. I already posted this, but the most popular games on Console are basically all 60fps games... all of the top console titles are 60fps. Fortnite, Call of Duty, Minecraft, Apex Legends, FIFA, Madden, NBA, Mario Kart 8, Smash Bros, Splatoon 2... games that millions play and stay popular over time, all of them 60fps
so you could argue that 60fps is what makes people subconsciously gravitate towards these games, because even if they never heard the term framerate, they can feel that these games simply feel better to play than 30fps games.
 
Mar 16, 2014
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As long as video games are around, we will still have 30fps. Wait until games start becoming way too demanding for PS5 and XSX and we will be right back to 30fps because that’s how we get better looking and more immersive games. Performance doesn’t come free and fixed hardware can’t perform miracles especially since technology moves ahead, but the hardware doesn’t.

For total freedom, PC is the only way because you can just keep throwing money and hardware at the problem until you’re happy with it.

I tried it for a couple years. Even got used to frame rates over 100Hz with FreeSync and all, but alas, I can still play 30fps games because I’m a god.
 

Hoddi

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U not caring for it is just you not caring for it. Mllions of people played 2d pacman not wanting a 3d mario because there argument is millions of people played 2d pacman so 2d is the best anyway nobody cares. is also just them being special. time moves forwards and so are demands.

About your it doesn't effect playability well it does effect the playability, which is why shooters even on consoles have 60 fps by default and PS5 starts to dig into the 100hz gaming same with microsoft for shooters now because motion clarity + input delay reduction is very real. Once a console gamer plays his game at 120hz and then moves back with the next installment towards 30, and the competition has 120, he will most likely not return towards that 30. its that bad.

It's so bad that there is a entire market for this already for decades on PC. Its the sole reason for people to upgrade also.




30 fps completely kills the presentation.
I don't really think gamepads are the best examples to show off the benefits of high refresh rates. I absolutely swear by 120hz+ when gaming on a PC with a mouse but it's not nearly the same issue with a gamepad.

People often mention the NES/SNES running on a CRT as having 'zero input lag'. In reality, they only polled the controller at 60hz during a very short interval. And if you missed it then your input wouldn't show until two frames later.

Most people just didn't notice.
 
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rofif

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Sep 13, 2019
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U not caring for it is just you not caring for it. Mllions of people played 2d pacman not wanting a 3d mario because there argument is millions of people played 2d pacman so 2d is the best anyway nobody cares. is also just them being special. time moves forwards and so are demands.

About your it doesn't effect playability well it does effect the playability, which is why shooters even on consoles have 60 fps by default and PS5 starts to dig into the 100hz gaming same with microsoft for shooters now because motion clarity + input delay reduction is very real. Once a console gamer plays his game at 120hz and then moves back with the next installment towards 30, and the competition has 120, he will most likely not return towards that 30. its that bad.

It's so bad that there is a entire market for this already for decades on PC. Its the sole reason for people to upgrade also.




30 fps completely kills the presentation.
That's rdr2.
Try doing that in Bloodborne. There is almost no lag. I don't know how they made 30fps so responsive
 

01011001

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That's rdr2.
Try doing that in Bloodborne. There is almost no lag. I don't know how they made 30fps so responsive

the best response time of a 30fps game on record is about 90ms (TV lag not included)
a 60fps game can go as low as 40ms if well made. so saying there is almost no lag is simply not true (even tho Bloodborne is most likely close to 90ms), especially if you don't have a good TV. with a good TV (Samsung, LG, newer Sony Models) you will have about 11 to 15ms ontop of that, which is very little.
if you play on a cheaper TV or an older Sony, you can get from 30ms all the way to 100ms of additional lag in the worst cases. that means on a bad TV you can get from about as much lag as a 60fps game has on its own, all the way to more than twice the lag a 60fps game has just ontop, introduced by your TV... now imagine you are starting with the 90ms best case of a 30fps title, which will make this a lot worse still

this all adds up, meaning you always want the fastest framerate possible and minimal GPU overhead that strains the GPU and introduces more lag due to the need to prerender frames to keep the fps stable and have a buffer in case of framedrops (which is what Red Dead 2 does, and what Killzone 2 did in a really bad way)
 
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scoobidoo112

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May 27, 2013
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OP probably...



In all seriousness though, it's probably a case of "once you get used to something, there's no going back".

I used to love my Xbox and specifically Halo 1, but I went back a while ago and the 24FPS makes it downright unbearable.

I had an Xbox 360 / PS3 so I played all my games at like 720P / <30FPS, and it was fine, but as soon as I got a gaming PC, and I started gaming at 1440P 120FPS / 4K 60FPS, I simply cannot play games at 30 FPS anymore, because I immediately notice the game stuttering all around the place, as soon as I move the camera.

Sure, if you've never or barely gamed at high framerates, you won't know what you're missing, but once you do, there's no going back.

As long as video games are around, we will still have 30fps.

Sure, just like how we're still gaming on controllers with only a directional pad and two buttons, at a resolution of 240P, on a tube TV.
 
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rofif

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the best response time of a 30fps game on record is about 90ms (TV lag not included)
a 60fps game can go as low as 40ms if well made. so saying there is almost no lag is simply not true (even tho Bloodborne is most likely close to 90ms), especially if you don't have a good TV. with a good TV (Samsung, LG, newer Sony Models) you will have about 11 to 15ms ontop of that, which is very little.
if you play on a cheaper TV or an older Sony, you can get from 30ms all the way to 100ms of additional lag in the worst cases. that means on a bad TV you can get from about as much lag as a 60fps game has on its own, all the way to more than twice the lag a 60fps game has just ontop, introduced by your TV... now imagine you are starting with the 90ms best case of a 30fps title, which will make this a lot worse still

this all adds up, meaning you always want the fastest framerate possible and minimal GPU overhead that strains the GPU and introduces more lag due to the need to prerender frames to keep the fps stable and have a buffer in case of framedrops (which is what Red Dead 2 does, and what Killzone 2 did in a really bad way)
what ?!
That's 16 vs 33ms. If You got fast tv, it's only 5-10ms more.
Bloodborne controls super responsive. Probably they do not wait for vsync
 

GloveSlap

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I would compare 30fps or below to how online gaming was without dedicated servers. It was playable and people made the best of it, but they both sucked then and they suck now. Time to let it go.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

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casual players don't care, we shouldn't use them as the standard to strive for tho. 30fps sucks, end of story. just because people are ok with it that are casual consumers doesn't mean it's good or even ok.

during the PS360 gen people were ok with 20fps... should we drop to that next just because FarCry 3 sold millions on PS3 running at 20fps? people didn't care right? so it's good right?
should we go back to the million seller GoldenEye and run at below 10fps? sold 8 million copies even on an underperforming platform as well! and it got great reviews! 10fps is therefore totally fine!
why stop there? people were fine with 240p 10 to 20 fps on N64, let's go back to that too because, 8 million people bought it so it must be ok!

and you can see it the other way around as well. I already posted this, but the most popular games on Console are basically all 60fps games... all of the top console titles are 60fps. Fortnite, Call of Duty, Minecraft, Apex Legends, FIFA, Madden, NBA, Mario Kart 8, Smash Bros, Splatoon 2... games that millions play and stay popular over time, all of them 60fps
so you could argue that 60fps is what makes people subconsciously gravitate towards these games, because even if they never heard the term framerate, they can feel that these games simply feel better to play than 30fps games.

Casual players make a game a success or failure. They make up the bulk, the majority, of purchasers. They are quite literally the most important to focus on.

Also no, 60 FPS is not why those games are successful. Art direction, gameplay, MTX, progression, brand loyalty - those are reasons why those titles are successful. The fact that you completely ignored all of those factors and made a baseless claim that it was 60 FPS is very telling.
 
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dorkimoe

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They're right, 30 fps sucks

If you like playing a slideshow then go for it

For me if a game is 30fps only it's a hard pass
Couldn’t even play greedfall until the update. Once you get used to 60 there is no going back
 

Swoopsail

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Games should move to 10FPS. After 2020 the human eye can only really see 5 frames a second after we all suffered mass hysteria strokes. This is a standard I'm sure we can all get used to it.
 
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There’s a certain “charm” to 30fps. Like it feels higher quality to me, not lower. When I see a game running 60fps, I think to myself, man they could’ve pushed the system harder. If the system isn’t breaking a sweat and pumping out that many frames I just assume that there were cut backs made to get there (and yes there were whether you know what they left out of the game, frames aren’t free)

It’s sort of like the warmth you get from older analog audio equipment that you just don’t get from the “better” digital equipment. There’s just this sense of power like they’re really pushing the system to it’s breaking point, and I really like that.

To give you a good example, it was impressive to see the game The Last of Us running on the PS3. That was mind blowing how good it looked, but then seeing it running on the PS4 with 60fps, it looked old and cheesy. It wasn’t impressive anymore whatsoever. So therefore 60fps doesn’t impress me at all. 30fps with everything cranked to the absolute max is way more impressive.

I wanna see Unreal Engine 5 games with Nanite and Lumen as well as new graphics engines from first parties utilizing geometry engine, advanced physics, destruction and global illumination at 30fps instead of stagnating and keeping what we have now but at 60fps.
 

Bulletbrain

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There’s a certain “charm” to 30fps. Like it feels higher quality to me, not lower. When I see a game running 60fps, I think to myself, man they could’ve pushed the system harder. If the system isn’t breaking a sweat and pumping out that many frames I just assume that there were cut backs made to get there (and yes there were whether you know what they left out of the game, frames aren’t free)
Any system is LITERALLY pushing harder when running at 60fps vs 30fps. On PC one can easily quantify this by looking at GPU and CPU utilization.
 
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Any system is LITERALLY pushing harder when running at 60fps vs 30fps. On PC one can easily quantify this by looking at GPU and CPU utilization.
Not in my eyes. When the system can fly along at 60, that means the graphics aren’t demanding enough for it.
 

Bulletbrain

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Not in my eyes. When the system can fly along at 60, that means the graphics aren’t demanding enough for it.
My man, this is one of those things that is not subjective. If we are talking about "how hard a system is being pushed" that is something that can be objectively measured via GPU utilization. Take any game you like. Say Kena. At 4k max settings but locked to 30fps, a 3080 may have a GPU utilization of say 60%. I.e at 30FPS the GPU is pushed just above half of its capabilities Lock it to 60FPS and you will see GPU utilization shoot up to near 100% meaning the GPU is now pushed to near its full capabilities.

I fully support your preference for 30fps due to how it "looks" (even if personally I disagree), but your latest statement is just flat out wrong.
 

xpresstuning

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If it completely killed the competition, then people would not have continued to play, buy, and recommend it. If 30 FPS was so detrimental, why are so many perfectly fine with playing in 30 FPS instead of the 60 FPS modes? The reality is that most don't care. They don't care if a game has some input lag (especially in predominantly single player games). They don't care if a game runs at 30 FPS over 60 or 120. They just want to play well made games with good storylines, fun gameplay, and interesting mechanics. Being 30 FPS, despite your claims, does not preclude a game from being any of these things or getting a market share of attention. Hell, TLOU2 (despite it being a title I loathe), launched at 30 FPS and the vast majority of people didn't give a flying fuck, despite many playing the previous game at 60 FPS from the PS4 remaster.

It doesn't matter. It never has outside of tiny group of people. The aforementioned two groups I mentioned before and the even tinier, miniscule "competitive" scene of world class gamers. Which I can guarantee you, not a single person on this forum is despite what they may think of themselves.

It's subjective and it depends on your leniency. Why do you think I, and anyone who collects or is interested in retro-gaming, can perfectly enjoy 5th generation 3D video games, while others can't? Lenience, patience, perspective, or in one word we can shorten the reason to "subjectivity". No reason to dismiss one individual or the other. Ignore, move on and enjoy what you enjoy. The only thing that matters wen you're playing video games is what you think.

But if you're going to post your opinion online, like the OP, you are going to get various opinions that may agree or disagree with you. It all depends how you handle it.

For example, regarding your post. I highly doubt that it's a minority of people. More like everyone who would play, say TLOU 2 at 30 FPS, and the inevitable "remaster" at 60 FPS in the future, will prefer 60 FPS. Because it's better. In comparison, 30 FPS is sluggish and affects the direct input you have with the video game in question; it'll also make them "age" like shit in comparison to their variant of 60 FPS. Why do you think the original arcade version of Daytona USA released in 1994 has "aged" incredibly well? 60 FPS and tight, responsive controls.
 
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Mister Wolf

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I got into PC gaming to get away from 30fps. Thats how much I despise it. At least on PC I can lower settings on games to achieve 60fps or higher. That doesn't apply as much to this gen since they are offering 60fps modes but the previous gen where 30fps was often for AAA games.
 
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My man, this is one of those things that is not subjective. If we are talking about "how hard a system is being pushed" that is something that can be objectively measured via GPU utilization. Take any game you like. Say Kena. At 4k max settings but locked to 30fps, a 3080 may have a GPU utilization of say 60%. I.e at 30FPS the GPU is pushed just above half of its capabilities Lock it to 60FPS and you will see GPU utilization shoot up to near 100% meaning the GPU is now pushed to near its full capabilities.

I fully support your preference for 30fps due to how it "looks" (even if personally I disagree), but your latest statement is just flat out wrong.
No, I’m not saying that the game is hitting just barely 30fps at all times, sure sometimes it might be in the 40s, sometimes it might be in the 30s and in certain situations, it might be in the 50s, but they lock it down to 30 just for consistency. The fact of the matter is, if the game is too demanding to reach a pretty much constant 60fps, then the developer caps it at 30 so that they can avoid stuttering. I’d much rather have this than a fluctuating frame rate as that’s very distracting to me and makes me constantly think I’m playing a video game and the stutters just look ugly. Imagine watching a movie that stutters instead of playing smoothly. It would be annoying.
 

BreakOut

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60fps should really just be the standard. It’s an acceptable frame rate and one that should always be targeted. I played some shit at 120 and it’s really nice, but not nearly as different as 30 to 60. Having 30fps even exist.. It really should never have been 30. It’s unfortunate that it became the standard (at least on console) for so long. My hope is that with 8K up and coming as well as all this other shit (120/240-Raytracing etc) 4K60 will become something people laugh at and as a basic experience. Because I would happily sit at that basic 4K60.
30 FPS whether you like it or not will eventually disappear, thank G-d, from games outside of companies who purposely target that. Some games will probably still target 30 for nostalgia one day, For whatever sick reason, kind of like motion blur some people are just fucked up like that.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

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It's subjective and it depends on your leniency. Why do you think I, and anyone who collects or is interested in retro-gaming, can perfectly enjoy 5th generation 3D video games, while others can't? Lenience, patience, perspective, or in one word we can shorten the reason to "subjectivity". No reason to dismiss one individual or the other. Ignore, move on and enjoy what you enjoy. The only thing that matters wen you're playing video games is what you think.

But if you're going to post your opinion online, like the OP, you are going to get various opinions that may agree or disagree with you. It all depends how you handle it.

For example, regarding your post. I highly doubt that it's a minority of people. More like everyone who would play, say TLOU 2 at 30 FPS, and the inevitable "remaster" at 60 FPS in the future, will prefer 60 FPS. Because it's better. In comparison, 30 FPS is sluggish and affects the direct input you have with the video game in question; it'll also make them "age" like shit in comparison to their variant of 60 FPS. Why do you think the original arcade version of Daytona USA released in 1994 has "aged" incredibly well? 60 FPS and tight, responsive controls.

And I would agree with you. I myself prefer higher framerates, but my arguments are more for the folks who claim that it is "impossible" to go back, that people *objectively* move towards 60 FPS games and that they are default for titles - none of which is true. As you stated, it is all subjective. I just have a stick up my ass when people try to make subjective opinions as objective truths.

If someone likes 30 FPS? Good for them! If someone likes 60 or 120? Cool! If you (royal you) are an uptight fuck weasel who insults others because they prefer to play one or the other? Then I am going to call you (again, royal you) out for being a low effort troll.
 

MaddMatt

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I used to think like the OP….then I toggled the 60 to 30 fps setting on Demons Souls Remake.

Literally like watching a slide show in comparison

Now I can’t unsee it…
Yeah I never cared about 30fps before but this game broke my brain. Now if I switch to quality mode it makes me nauseous for a split second.
 
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hussar16

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lol, we found the dumbest opinion yet... there are TVs and PC monitors that can basically eliminate pixel response blur, 30fps still sucks on those...
also low framerates will still produce blur on high refresh monitors.
if you have a high refresh (hertz) monitor maybe look up the UFO test on the BlurBusters website. the lower the framerate the less information the panel gets and the blurrier your image will be.

and of course, lower Framerate = worse input latency, and there is nothing worse for gaming than high input lag. no display tech can fix that.
wrong look up crt videos digital foundry has done ,framerate doesnt matter in those screens and also 30fps is enough on those screens.because uve been accustomed to blurry screens u think tht you need 60fps
 
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USA
U not caring for it is just you not caring for it. Mllions of people played 2d pacman not wanting a 3d mario because there argument is millions of people played 2d pacman so 2d is the best anyway nobody cares. is also just them being special. time moves forwards and so are demands.

About your it doesn't effect playability well it does effect the playability, which is why shooters even on consoles have 60 fps by default and PS5 starts to dig into the 100hz gaming same with microsoft for shooters now because motion clarity + input delay reduction is very real. Once a console gamer plays his game at 120hz and then moves back with the next installment towards 30, and the competition has 120, he will most likely not return towards that 30. its that bad.

It's so bad that there is a entire market for this already for decades on PC. Its the sole reason for people to upgrade also.




30 fps completely kills the presentation.
The person making this has an issue that we don't know of. I play Red Dead 2 on my laundry PS4 and the controls are responsive as hell. Never seen this. I feel like he's probably playing remote. Like shareplay. Or else streaming the game instead of loading it on his hardware.