Support NeoGAF

[DD]

Some time ago Denuvo blocked me out of my legally bough copy of F1 2016 for two entire weeks for no reason at all, and I had the same problem but in a much smaller scale with Mad Max, and I gave them good reviews on Steam because, well, they are great games! But after that I decided to skip games with Denuvo because of the problems I had with it. I remember that they used to add a note on the store page about 3rd party DRMs, but I noticed that recently these companies started to not disclose this information, or disclosing only when the game is officially released.

I recently bought Dirt 4, another great game with a stupid encrypting/decrypting DRM that demands double its size from your HDD, which is really annoying when you have a tight disk, and takes forever to install a simple patch because of that. I mean, I love the game and I'm glad they made it, but we should stop thinking that these companies are doing us favors by making games we like, so I gave it a bad review even though I loved it. Then I bought F1 2017 and guess what? Denuvo, yay! I know, I know, should've expect that... It will get a bad review too. If they want to be anti-consumer, we the consumers should fight back.

The icing on the cake was delaying Sonic Mania (which I preordered) for two weeks to add Denuvo on it. Guys like Christian Whitehead and Tee Lopes should receive all the praising they can get, but I will give Sonic Mania a bad review too because Sega can go happily sit on a cactus.

 

[dan2026]

It's shitty but I don't think bad steam reviews will help much.
People just seem to use them for trolling rather than actual criticism.

 

[Nikana]

I disagree. Just don't buy it if you don't like the DRM. Bad reviews of a great game because of DRM is a bad solution.

 

[DD]

It's shitty but I don't think bad steam reviews will help much.
People just seem to use them for trolling rather than actual criticism.

Well, a lot of people look at the reviews before buying a game. A lower score will give the publishers something to think about.

I disagree. Just don't buy it if you don't like the DRM. Bad reviews of a great game because of DRM is a bad solution.

Well, Sega announced the Sonic Mania delay just two days before the original release date, and never disclosed they would be adding Denuvo. That was really low. If I knew that it would have Denuvo, I'd skip it. This is so common that I should have learned to not preorder games anymore.

 

[Bowl0l]

Nothing tops Square Enix implementation of Denuvo on NieR Automata.
Delaying a PC release because of localising the game in Chinese for the PS4 but they choose to exclude the localisation for the PC.

I will try but I only have few Denuvo games.
Following Steam Curator : Denuvo Games will be a great way to avoid Denuvo games.

 

[Durante]

Also, buy and support DRM-free games!

Spoiler

Like Trails of Cold Steel

It's shitty but I don't think bad steam reviews will help much.

Companies are actually pretty cognizant of the fact that Steam reviews affect sales, both in the short term and in the long term (which is also important on PC).

 

[Mark1]

I disagree. Just don't buy it if you don't like the DRM. Bad reviews of a great game because of DRM is a bad solution.

.

 

[Nikana]

Well, a lot of people look at the reviews before buying a game. A lower score will give the publishers something to think about.




Well, Sega announced the Sonic Mania delay just two days before the original release date, and never disclosed they would be adding Denuvo. That was really low. If I knew that it would have Denuvo, I'd skip it. This is so common that I should have learned to not preorder games anymore.

Right but seeing lower sales numbers would give them even more to think about.

If you buy the game, and then just give it thumbs down because of DRM, you still gave them money. It doesn't really solve anything. Except it skews the reviews in a negative way that isn't actually true of the quality of the game.

 

[Hamster Plugin]

I don't think Denuvo is draconian. I've always had a good experience with it.

Sonic Mania's online requirement was actual bullshit, but it seems that is now being patched out while Denuvo stays.

 

[see5harp]

Who the hell pays attention to audience reviews? I think it's pretty clear that the large majority of people writing reviews are complete idiots.

 

[Kinsei]

I disagree. Just don't buy it if you don't like the DRM. Bad reviews of a great game because of DRM is a bad solution.

Publishers should know why people aren't buying their game and customers deserve to know ahead of time whether the game contains DRM like Deunovo. Reviews are the best way to get the word out to both the publishers and potential customers.

 

[Durante]

Right but seeing lower sales numbers would give them even more to think about.

If you buy the game, and then just give it thumbs down because of DRM, you still gave them money. It doesn't really solve anything. Except it skews the reviews in a negative way that isn't actually true of the quality of the game.

You can buy the game, give it a negative review, and then refund it (and in both the review and the refund state that the reason is DRM). That's probably the most effective way of getting your point across.

(Note that I'm not endorsing this practice, just laying out your options)

 

[Stumpokapow]

With respect to Life is Strange prequel getting Denuvo, perhaps the developers could learn a lesson from the original game's story: "Who sows the wind reaps the whirlwind".

 

[CecilRousso]

Don't to condone to ridiculous forms of review bombing, but the package is part of the product, and if you're not happy with how it's packaged, why shouldn't you tell that in the review?

 

[PhantomThief]

.

You have to let them know WHY you are not buying it though..

 

[Wulfram]

I disagree. Just don't buy it if you don't like the DRM. Bad reviews of a great game because of DRM is a bad solution.

Well, you should review the experience you had with the game. If the DRM causes problems for you, that could be a good reason for reviewing the game poorly. I don't really agree with reviewing a game poorly as a protest when it works well and offers a good experience though.

 

[Aaron D.]

This new trend of Review Bombing is such a bitch move.

Entitlement Generation, indeed.

 

[Dario ff]

On one hand I'd like PC versions of traditional console games to do well enough so we keep getting PC versions regularly.

On the other hand not buying the game due to DRM could send the wrong message if the publisher is oblivious enough to the complaints and assumes it's just lower interest on PC versions in general.

It's a bit of an awkward spot.

Leaving bad reviews seems like an acceptable compromise to me.

 

[Memorabilia]

The irony of it all is that DRM doesn't work long term. Full stop. At best it works "long enough" to maybe curtail some unknown percentage of piracy during the initial sales phase. Most of the time not even that.

3-4 yrs ago a Ubi exec admitted in an interview they know DRM is pointless, intimating it's only there to make know-nothing investors feel better.

CDPR actually released two versions of The Witcher 2 into the wild on torrents and they found out that the one using DRM was pirated far more. This at least partially validates that if anything, DRM merely encourages piracy...whether out of spite or for the challenge or some mixture of reasons.

 

[Yohane]

Can you review a game you don't own?

 

[Principate]

I disagree. Just don't buy it if you don't like the DRM. Bad reviews of a great game because of DRM is a bad solution.

Eh your reviewing the quality of the product on your pc not an impartial review of the overall game. Same reason why gamebreaking bugs would impact your view thus score thus would as well. The company chooses to include these things and warning others about your negative experience with should hardly be a problem.

Anyone wanting to buy the game would want to know this.

 

[MUnited83]

Considering reviews seem to be one of the only ways dumb publishers start listening, there is no issue with this.

This new trend of Review Bombing is such a bitch move.

Entitlement Generation, indeed.

Not really. Maybe if it's for a dumb reason, sure. But if it's for draconian DRM or trying to take away modding? 100% justified. Entitled Generation? If you mean the publishers themselves, sure, they seem to act entitled as shit.

 

[Bog]

No, they really shouldn't. Has zero to do with the quality of the actual game.

 

[Minsc]

This new trend of Review Bombing is such a bitch move.

Entitlement Generation, indeed.

If this is the only thing a company cares about more than money itself (their review score), then it's perfectly logical. I see absolutely no problem with expressing your dissatisfaction with a product's DRM by purchasing the product, leaving a crappy review about the DRM, then refunding.

It has an immediate and apparent effect on their bottom line, unlike the actual DRM. And having a 1/whatever review average WILL destroy your game's sales. So you have to notice and decide if the issue giving you the bad reviews is really worth it.

 

[Eumi]

This new trend of Review Bombing is such a bitch move.

Entitlement Generation, indeed.

People should be allowed to leave bad reviews.

Why are you treating people utilising a storefronts review system like they're in the wrong?

It's much odder that you seem to want people to not be able to voice their displeasure.

 

[JigglesBunny]

Ya know, this bad review slacktivism has really only worked in the case of GTA mods.
As much I would like otherwise, I don't think it makes quite the noise a lot of us think it does.

And when the DRM is removed you have a game with bad reviews that in no way reflect its quality

Bingo. Plus, DRM isn't inherently evil, they're just trying to protect their assets and they haven't quite figured out a way to do so without indirectly harming game preservation and performance. Like all things, it'll require a lot of trial and error before we find a suitable DRM solution.

 

[Raysoul]

Sonic mania

Pros
- Excellent Gameplay
- Superb Visuals
- Nice Soundtrack

Cons
- It has Denuvo

1/10 this shit is trash. i need refunds!

 

[UnemployedVillain]

And when the DRM is removed you have a game with bad reviews that in no way reflect its quality

 

[TP]

Ya know, this bad review slacktivism has really only worked in the case of GTA mods.
As much I would like otherwise, I don't think it makes quite the noise a lot of us think it does.

Arkham Knight got trashed so hard its store page was removed from Steam. Of course that's because WB wanted to be sneaky fucks and reset the "overall reception" by marking those reviews pre release. Still, they definitely took notice.

 

[OmegaFax]

People are entitled to their opinions and if they are giving their money for something they're ultimately dissatisfied with, power to them.

I think that the Sonic Mania developers were thrown under the bus over Sega's actions. At the end of the day, it is their IP and they published it and bankrolled it.

Aaron Webber will have a harder time since he is PR under Sega's corporate umbrella and has been spinning the positive reception of the game for two weeks.

All and all. Unfortunately mess that could have been easily avoided.

 

[MUnited83]

Sonic mania

Pros
- Excellent Gameplay
- Superb Visuals
- Nice Soundtrack

Cons
- It has Denuvo

1/10 this shit is trash. i need refunds!

Considering they sneaked in Denuvo without any warning or notice, 1/10 and a refund seems justified. Don't sneak that shit in.

And when the DRM is removed you have a game with bad reviews that in no way reflect its quality

Reviews can be edited and updated accordingly.

 

[Durante]

No, they really shouldn't. Has zero to do with the quality of the actual game.

Is the review you leave on the storefront a review of some idealized form of the game or of the entire actual product you can buy on that store? Because if its the latter, then DRM (or the lack thereof!) is just as much part of it as gameplay or graphics.

 

[Marcel]

This new trend of Review Bombing is such a bitch move.

Entitlement Generation, indeed.

Yeah I'm sure you mean entitled publishers and not customers who rightfully choose how to spend their money or not on a product based on personal criteria.

 

[TP]

And when the DRM is removed you have a game with bad reviews that in no way reflect its quality

If that were the case and a potential customer were to scroll down they'd see a bunch of updated or new user reviews celebrating that removal of that DRM.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Reviews can be edited and updated accordingly.

You can't be this naive, right? You honestly think more than a tiny fraction of them will be updated when DRM is removed?

 

[Eumi]

And when the DRM is removed you have a game with bad reviews that in no way reflect its quality

And when a game with a gamebreaking bug has that bug patched out you also have a bunch of reviews that incorrectly reflect how polished the game is.

So do you think reviews should only talk about things that can never be changed? Because that really limits what they can talk about.

 

[RRockman]

No, they really shouldn't. Has zero to do with the quality of the actual game.

See below.

Eh your reviewing the quality of the product on your pc not an impartial review of the overall game. Same reason why gamebreaking bugs would impact your view thus score thus would as well. The company chooses to include these things and warning others about your negative experience with should hardly be a problem.

Anyone wanting to buy the game would want to know this.

And when the DRM is removed you have a game with bad reviews that in no way reflect its quality

Steam reviews can be edited. I've seen bad reviews that were changed because the devs saw the criticism and actually fixed the issue.

Like how the system was supposed to be intended.


The same system that some people in this thread is calling entitlement.

It's really really stupid to think this way.

 

[Salty Rice]

I disagree. Just don't buy it if you don't like the DRM. Bad reviews of a great game because of DRM is a bad solution.

Pretty much.

 

[Durante]

You can't be this naive, right? You honestly think more than a tiny fraction of them will be updated when DRM is removed?

This is one reason Steam now lists recent reviews as the primary score and overall reviews as secondary.

If someone were to see a very positive recent score but mixed to bad overall score they'd just need to read a review or two to figure out what happened.

 

[BiggNife]

A "Mostly Negative" consensus on a Steam page will absolutely affect sales, regardless of what other people here think.

It's true that a a game like Dota won't be affected by negative reviews at all because it's a behemoth and it's F2P. But paid games that aren't global phenomenons like Dota absolutely get affected by the Steam review consensus.

 

[Skronk]

Steam reviews are totally useless for this exact reason. People have used them too many times to force their agenda.

 

[Stumpokapow]

And when the DRM is removed you have a game with bad reviews that in no way reflect its quality

Besides that Steam downweights older reviews, I'm not sure why this is an bad thing -- putting on DRM gives you, purportedly, a benefit at launch. In exchange you have a lasting negative effect on word of mouth. As a publisher you (the royal you) get to choose and one presumes if you choose incorrectly you will take responsibility for it?

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

But I don't even like Steam as a form of DRM either

 

[AcceptableGhost]

I disagree. Just don't buy it if you don't like the DRM. Bad reviews of a great game because of DRM is a bad solution.

Nah, that just tells them that you didn't want the game. You need to be specific and say that DRM was the problem, and the only real way to make that statement clear is to make a negative review.

 

[MUnited83]

You can't be this naive, right? You honestly think more than a tiny fraction of them will be updated when DRM is removed?

Why not? How did you think Arkham Knight managed to bounce back to Mostly Positive reviews?

 

[axisofweevils]

With respect to Life is Strange prequel getting Denuvo, perhaps the developers could learn a lesson from the original game's story: "Who sows the wind reaps the whirlwind".

I really don't like the way they encouraged everyone to pre-order for the extra episode for weeks and revealed Denuvo at the 11th hour, 1 day before release.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

And when a game with a gamebreaking bug has that bug patched out you also have a bunch of reviews that incorrectly reflect how polished the game is.

So do you think reviews should only talk about things that can never be changed? Because that really limits what they can talk about.

I think reviews should reflect the quality of the game. Giving a bad review solely because of DRM is dumb, and isn't useful. Sure, mention the game has DRM, but a low score doesn't seem particularly helpful

 

[Durante]

But I don't even like Steam as a form of DRM either

Steam isn't a form of DRM, it only is if publishers want it to be (and then it's very weak/unobtrusive).

There are fully DRM-free games on Steam. Like Larian's games

Spoiler

, or Trails of Cold Steel

.

 

[Marcel]

I really don't like the way they encouraged everyone to pre-order for the extra episode for weeks and revealed Denuvo at the 11th hour, 1 day before release.

It's because they know Denuvo will make them look bad to their PC customers and held off on the information. Kind of obvious behavior really. Not that it would help on digital platforms where you can get a no-nonsense refund.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

Can you review a game you don't own?

You can review games played via Steam Family Sharing. I believe you just have to have any time in a game to review it.