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News Persona 5 Royal To Be Censored In the West, Bigotry of Low Expectations for the Gay Community. Reddit Censors Gay Voices!

Neofire

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Mar 11, 2015
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Ironically, isn't Playstation leadership now mostly Caucasian male and females? 👀 When Kaz Hirai was at the helm this censorship mess wasn't even given a thought, just a bit of a correlation 😏
 

sid2vicious

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Jun 27, 2016
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No they're just lead by a bunch of dumbasses, don't associate an entire race by a few political stance, that makes you no better than them.
 

Bumblebeetuna

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Jun 23, 2008
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"Muh censorship"
Like I said i'm gonna buy it anyway, i just hope the Japanese VA is on disc this time around and the new additions don't mess the pacing/story.


woah. This is one of the greatest things the Internet has ever produced.
 

Whitesnake

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Jan 31, 2018
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It's kinda funny(its really fucking not) if you think about it. The people that are complaining about this are the same people who complained about The Somnium Files having a couple pro-lgbt lines. The same crowd WANTING censorship. C'mon, guys.

Who wanted censorship? People just thought it was cringe.

Do you believe that disliking something implicitly means actively wanting that thing to stop existing?

Because, if so, I know of a forum full of people who think exactly like you!
 

SentientStone

Member
Jun 6, 2004
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The West is too serious with whitewashing its culture.
We should not pretend that homophobia does not exist in the world by censoring instances of it in entertainment.
But I guess they have to appeal to their socially conditioned moral extremists (aka the pure "awakened consumers" who ironically hates "the other").
 
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DeliciousDoc

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Luckily If the scene remains and only the dialogue is changed it's easy to fix, especially if the original had the scenes intact (on PC anyway).

Was hoping attempts to please extremists was over but here we are again.
 

JunkerWoland

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Jun 29, 2016
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Whenever these types of situations come to light, I immediately wonder what other material could have potentially been adjusted on the sly, after it tweaked the sensibilities of someone on the localization team. It doesn't help revealing this change is nothing but the company marketing to a specific consumer segment. If ATLUS' localization people were adamant about selling this change to the entire audience, they'd offer a comparison of the original Japanese, a literal translation, the localization text from the game's initial release, and then the newly adjusted lines. What they've presented is merely the company--or some of its employees--patting themselves on the back for their cultural sensitivities and enlightened viewpoint. None of it sits well with me.

I have no attachment to, nor am I offended by, the campy gay characters, but as with localization changes in some other recent SEGA & ATLUS releases, I dislike the general precedent. In this instance, I'll stick with vanilla P5.
 
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Oct 26, 2018
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Apparently the gays can't be portrayed as assholes or predatory (sorry James Charles), like every other normal human being can. Acceptance is all about normalcy, innit? I guess not.

Reddit also censoring Gaymer's speaking out for not being, "the right kind of gay".


Haha. It's a SJW world.

Now you know how straight people feel when big changes happen due to a tiny number of people complaining and the perception of bad PR,

Third bathrooms, anyone can go into any bathroom as long as they associate with that gender, trans guys winning sports over cis females trying their best.

Enjoy the SJW world with sometimes accidental anti-SJW views which almost always stem from heterosexual people trying to act like everyone's authority what to do..... and in this case modding forums on Reddit involving gay people talking about gay issues.

Let's face it, niche groups wanting more power have been striving for as many people fighting their cause with them. And what happens is at some point, the hetero folks outnumber them and will dictate what happens even with gay issues. lol
 
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TwiztidElf

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Mar 5, 2005
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The hotel I stayed at in Shinjuku was adjacent to the gay district.
I walked through many times to get to Shinjuku-gyoemmae station.
There were flamboyant gay people there at night. People were also flirting with each other.
 

vkbest

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Jan 23, 2017
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So they are censoring this on a game where you can see some things such as (don't read if you didn't play the original):

1) The first guy palace is straight, predatory, and abusive with their minors students. No problem
2) On Makoto route, the boyfriend of "Makoto´s friend" want swindle and prostitute her. No problem
3) You can date your teacher on this game. No problem
4) Politics abuse of power. No problem
5) The Yakuza guy from a (third?) palace force to prostitute the minors school girls blackmail them (blackmail guys too). No problem.
6) Testing drugs on a student without clinics essays.

I don't know, but I think those points I described are worse than a joke with 2 gays characters.
 
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Mista

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Nov 21, 2014
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i dont know about people, but im pretty weird about these things. now i feel that the game is incomplete, they shouldn't put that shit in the first place.
and the fuck up thing is atlus get progressive and woke as soon as they cross the ocean.
True. Unfortunately thats what Atlus is turning into also

In Japan they’re something and in the west they’re something else
 
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V2Tommy

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So they are censoring this on a game where you can see some things such as (don't read if you didn't play the original):

1) The first guy palace is straight, predatory, and abusive with their minors students. No problem
2) On Makoto route, the boyfriend of "Makoto´s friend" want swindle and prostitute her. No problem
3) You can date your teacher on this game. No problem
4) Politics abuse of power. No problem
5) The Yakuza guy from a (third?) palace force to prostitute the minors school girls blackmail them (blackmail guys too). No problem.
6) Testing drugs on a student without clinics essays.

I don't know, but I think those points I described are worse than a joke with 2 gays characters.

This is why I didn’t see a problem with anything in Persona 5: everything is topical and themed correctly. It was a game for adults by adults.
 

bigol

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May 15, 2008
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I'm outraged that now gays can't be portrayed as perverse and degenerates anymore. This is censorship, i need to laugh at gays, you can't deny me that, Atlus.


/s

It was a joke, but it was insensitive and it's good they have made some tweaks.

The hotel I stayed at in Shinjuku was adjacent to the gay district.
I walked through many times to get to Shinjuku-gyoemmae station.
There were flamboyant gay people there at night. People were also flirting with each other.

But these guys are not just flamboyant, they literally want to sexually harass Ryuji, Yusuke and Ren, they are forced to run. It was a bit too far to be a light hearted joke.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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"We don't want to censor anything, we just want to be included!"

then

"Well we think the way you're including us is tokenism, please include us in more realistic ways"

then

"No, NO! You can't depict us in a negative light. Take this out!"

It was always about censorship, brainiacs. They were lying through their teeth even before GamerGate, even here on GAF:

(nearly 7 years ago...)


brap brap 's censorship bingo card nailed it.
 

Mista

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Nov 21, 2014
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"We don't want to censor anything, we just want to be included!"

then

"Well we think the way you're including us is tokenism, please include us in more realistic ways"

then

"No, NO! You can't depict us in a negative light. Take this out!"

It was always about censorship, brainiacs. They were lying through their teeth even before GamerGate, even here on GAF:

(nearly 7 years ago...)


brap brap 's censorship bingo card nailed it.
Yes its bad and yes its pathetic but people barely knew about this and if the news never made it then they'll still know nothing about it

There's more censorship fuckery that deserves more attention
 
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SaturnSaturn

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Oct 30, 2018
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Told you back in 2018 that larger japanese games would get censored after death mark got censored and the light rays started appearing, overwhelmingly the response was "lol who cares only small games will get it, go back and jerk off to your anime tits" fast forward a few months DMC V gets censored "w...who cares its only a light ray, go jerk off to porn lol." and now persona gets censored, if you give an inch they will take a mile.
 

CAB_Life

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Ugg, outrage culture. Okay, so the characters in question are pretty terrible stereotypes, but after 20+ years in the gay community, they’re not too far off the mark from real people I’ve met. I do not approve of censorship in 99% of all cases—unless the material at hand is so objectionable or violent (snuff films) that law enforcement should be involved. I find it astonishing how easily people are allowing themselves to be led down the path into totalitarian thinking when free-thought is one of the cornerstones of liberalism. Though what we have today isn’t liberalism, it’s collectivism wearing the mask.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Imagine you were gay. Would you be happy that the only gay presence in Persona 5 would revolve about two guys behaving like this? Would you take it as a joke? I wouldn't.
First of all, what if I am gay? Would it make my opinion more or less valid in your eyes?

Also, I don't think it is intended as a joke per se, it is depicting people acting like jerks. Can you confirm that no gay men have behaved this way? And as Mista Mista said, straight folks get depicted as lecherous, sleazy, etc all the time and no one bats an eye. If such-and-such group wants to be normalized that would naturally include being depicted as jerks.

Yes its bad and yes its pathetic but people barely knew about this and if the news never made it then they'll still know nothing about it

There's more censorship fuckery that deserves more attention
I mean, I view it as yet another brick in the wall. 🤷‍♀️

Very few of the individual examples of censorship are worthy of getting up in arms, but taken as a sum it paints a dark picture.
 

Breakage

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Mar 3, 2014
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There's something unsettling about the desire in the West to only depict those who are “LGBT” as morally good people who are incapable of any wrong doing.
People should Google “Britain's worst rapist”. The story has unsurprisingly been quickly buried.
 

Jagz

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Feb 13, 2018
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Hopefully it comes to PC, so at least whatever censorship there is in the game can be reversed through mods.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
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Never try to appease the deranged radicals on Twitter and Reeeset. Nothing will ever be good enough, and they’ll demand more from you next time, and more, until your creative vision is thoroughly crushed and sales are in the gutter. They aren’t your customers.

These people are hyenas, and brutally exploit perceived weakness. Stay strong. Be the lion.
 

GeorgPrime

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Jan 9, 2020
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Well if you want to be depicted in media then its up to the Creator how he wants to depict you.

For example: If the creator only has bad experiences with gay people, he will depict them as bad persons based on his experience. Thats doesnt mean he doesnt like gay people, he just doesnt know better.

That whole Persona 5 Royal thing now was kinda counterproductive to the people who tried to defend LBGT people when even LBGT people getting censored because they arent offended by it.

For me its easy:

I am writing a book. Its a modern sci-fiction/fantasy tale with a classic and traditional background. There is the beauty that needs to be saved, the knight that conquers great obstacles, enemies which become friends over time and other stuff. People who were able to read my stuff already loved it. I always describe it as a mixture of "Game of Thrones" x "The Man with the iron mask" x "Sin City". I already have plans for three books.

At the moment i dont plan to write any LBGT characters. Why? Easy. I just have a few gay friends and thats why i have only a few experiences with gay people and they are normal people like me. I never expected one of my friends to be in relationship with a old friend of mine now. The moment was funny when they told me about it but its ok for me. So when i write a gay character he will just be a normal human being and i wont go to far into it. My gay friend for example dislikes all the gay people who just overdo it or are just overly dramatic in every aspect.

What iam interested in is "Epic Tales", "Romance between men and women", "Strong Knights", "Great Kings", "Gracious Queens", "Mysterious Beauties", "Traditional Storytelling".

If people critizes my book for not having any LBGT people in it... i will tell them that i can only tell stories or depict characters that iam familiar with or what iam interesed in and if they want to write a LBGT fantasy story, about LBGT knights in LBGT relationships.... i will gladly give them a pen to write a book for themselves.

If they cant write it or they dont want to write it, then they shouldnt critizes other people for not writing it but iam sure there are already a lot of books out there depicting LBGT people.
 
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infinitys_7th

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Oct 1, 2006
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As for how those characters and lines have changed, Namba simply said, "We made it [as if they're] being very strong enthusiasts for something they like doing. But it's not like they're on the hunt for some young boys or anything."

So the horny gay men are just strong enthusiasts about fucking teenage boys, but not on the hunt or anything.

So basically they are Milo Yiannopoulos.


Makes sense that Makoto has tramp stamp. Just another reason my stinky NEET gremlin is superior ^_^
 
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_Justinian_

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By the way, the people who were offended by this are not satisfied with them just changing the dialogue in the western release. They wanted the Japanese release changed, too.
 
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Dane

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This is why you never have an overseas office today unless you have a strict control over those matters, most of the staff bend for those people.
 
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Fbh

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I'm glad I wasn't planning to buy this anyway. P5 was fun but not good enough to spend another 100 hours on it.
Seems like a usual case of "it's only ok to depict LGBT people if they are good and perfect in every way". In a game with murder, adults abusing minors, evil politicians and an underage main character who is given several romance options with adult women.... the only people who aren't allowed to be depicted in any negative way are these 2 gay dudes.

As I've said in other threads, if your argument is that it "enforces negative stereotypes" then you'll have to admit you also think games cause violence and I want to see your full support next time some politician wants to ban or restrict them. Because if 2 shorts scenes in a 100 hours game are shaping your views of gay people then I can't imagine what the countless hours of shooting and fighting in games are doing to you.


They’re too busy banning anyone who doesn’t think “brownies” are a racist food.

Wait brownies are racist now?
 

bRacing

Banned
Feb 13, 2020
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I'm glad I wasn't planning to buy this anyway. P5 was fun but not good enough to spend another 100 hours on it.
Seems like a usual case of "it's only ok to depict LGBT people if they are good and perfect in every way". In a game with murder, adults abusing minors, evil politicians and an underage main character who is given several romance options with adult women.... the only people who aren't allowed to be depicted in any negative way are these 2 gay dudes.

As I've said in other threads, if your argument is that it "enforces negative stereotypes" then you'll have to admit you also think games cause violence and I want to see your full support next time some politician wants to ban or restrict them. Because if 2 shorts scenes in a 100 hours game are shaping your views of gay people then I can't imagine what the countless hours of shooting and fighting in games are doing to you.




Wait brownies are racist now?
They had a thread last week in which one of their genius members asked if the name "Blackie" is racist for a dog. They decided it was 1000 percent always racist and banned anyone who disagreed for a month. That's the kind of people who go there, and then they wonder why their numbers are dropping every single month.
 

CAB_Life

Gold Member
Dec 12, 2019
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Well if you want to be depicted in media then its up to the Creator how he wants to depict you.

For example: If the creator only has bad experiences with gay people, he will depict them as bad persons based on his experience. Thats doesnt mean he doesnt like gay people, he just doesnt know better.

That whole Persona 5 Royal thing now was kinda counterproductive to the people who tried to defend LBGT people when even LBGT people getting censored because they arent offended by it.

For me its easy:

I am writing a book. Its a modern sci-fiction/fantasy tale with a classic and traditional background. There is the beauty that needs to be saved, the knight that conquers great obstacles, enemies which become friends over time and other stuff. People who were able to read my stuff already loved it. I always describe it as a mixture of "Game of Thrones" x "The Man with the iron mask" x "Sin City". I already have plans for three books.

At the moment i dont plan to write any LBGT characters. Why? Easy. I just have a few gay friends and thats why i have only a few experiences with gay people and they are normal people like me. I never expected one of my friends to be in relationship with a old friend of mine now. The moment was funny when they told me about it but its ok for me. So when i write a gay character he will just be a normal human being and i wont go to far into it. My gay friend for example dislikes all the gay people who just overdo it or are just overly dramatic in every aspect.

What iam interested in is "Epic Tales", "Romance between men and women", "Strong Knights", "Great Kings", "Gracious Queens", "Mysterious Beauties", "Traditional Storytelling".

If people critizes my book for not having any LBGT people in it... i will tell them that i can only tell stories or depict characters that iam familiar with or what iam interesed in and if they want to write a LBGT fantasy story, about LBGT knights in LBGT relationships.... i will gladly give them a pen to write a book for themselves.

If they cant write it or they dont want to write it, then they shouldnt critizes other people for not writing it but iam sure there are already a lot of books out there depicting LBGT people.

An anecdote: I followed a path similar to yours many years ago and wrote the story I wanted to write. Now the difference is that I am a gay man who wrote predominantly heterosexual relationships in his story (there is one gay character who doesn’t even appear until the 3rd book). Why? Because that’s what I know, those were many of the successful models and archetypes I’d seen in real life and fiction. I wrote a five-book, critically acclaimed, dark fantasy series and gave no fucks—or nods—toward trends in modern literature. And I was successful because I did what everyone else wasn’t. Also, because I know, as most of us do, that trends are fleeting and that the ‘mythic’ resonates to archetypes and beliefs that are deeply ingrained in our social and physical consciousness. (Whereas a lot of what we see in popular culture is an attempt to transmogrify or forcibly change these archetypes, which simply can’t be done.)

Timeless stories have timeless themes, and while ‘contemporizing‘ an idea can make it fresh, and new, the best modernizations do not do away with the archetypes and imagery that have stirred human beings since the Bronze Age, or earlier. They hide it, or put a fresh coat of paint on these archetypes.

I think the worst thing to happen to literature is this design-by-comittee bullshit that happens with nearly every book churned through a major publisher. A checklist of minorities and representation that it won’t make it to market without. Epic fiction isn’t about any of that—never has been, never will be. It’s about stirring the heart and spirit with archetypal myth. If a transbian happens to fall into the story somewhere, okay, I guess, but they better be part of the myth—perhaps a two-spirited indigenous shaman there to serve as a spirit guide/ mentor archetype—or you’ve lost the plot.
 
Aug 26, 2018
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The gays sure dont know their history. Tell em to google search John Wayne Gacy.

John Wayne Gacy was an American serial killer who raped, tortured and murdered at least 33 teenage boys and young men between 1972 and 1978. Nope, no gay men are violent lol.