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Persona Community Thread |OT4| The Golden Number

Makoto Yuki

Banned
Dec 26, 2013
3,991
0
0
Hmm, looking at all those logos, I think Persona 1's looks the coolest, love the butterfly motif. If I recall correctly, that's the PSP version's logo? Since the PS1 was called Revelations: Persona.
 

Daimaou

Member
Sep 18, 2011
746
0
0
Should be written on my tombstone.

Look, I'm just saying not every game we like is designed well. There's a lot that goes in to making a game and quite a bit of it is objective as it's a scientific process as much as it is creating a piece of art.

Yes and no. Games are, primarily, a business. So you can say that a game is bad in that sense if it lacks wider appeal and fails to sell. Apart from that, creating a game is an art, and art should be judged as such. There are very few, if any, objectively bad games. Almost everything will have its fans, and again, who are you to say differently?
 

PK Gaming

Member
Jun 9, 2010
21,892
137
945
ON, Canada
It is really bizzare to see this reversal of opinion on P1. P1 was always viewed as the red headed stepchild.
Well, I wouldn't know anything about that. When I posted my P1 impressions, it seemed like there were people who were somewhat fond of P1.

I placed P1 in the P3/P4 category because it's gameplay was pretty decent, all things considered.
Hmm, looking at all those logos, I think Persona 1's looks the coolest, love the butterfly motif. If I recall correctly, that's the PSP version's logo? Since the PS1 was called Revelations: Persona.

You got it
 

Dantis

Member
Apr 18, 2012
15,693
1
0
When are you gonna draw more Rise.

What bank accounts do I have to send money to.

An actual picture? Not for a while.

I'm making a collection of quick-ish sketches though, and then I'm going to dump them all into one Tumblr post when I have between 10 and 20. I can do some Rise in there if you want.

Any requests for an outfit or whatever?

You failed!

PFFFT.
 

Squire

Banned
Feb 6, 2011
26,542
0
0
Los Angeles
Yes and no. Games are, primarily, a business. So you can say that a game is bad in that sense if it lacks wider appeal and fails to sell. Apart from that, creating a game is an art, and art should be judged as such. There are very few, if any, objectively bad games. Almost everything will have its fans, and again, who are you to say differently?

I'm getting my degree on this very subject, so not the sort of armchair design wiz that permeates gaming side, if that's what you're wondering.
 

Makoto Yuki

Banned
Dec 26, 2013
3,991
0
0
An actual picture? Not for a while.

I'm making a collection of quick-ish sketches though, and then I'm going to dump them all into one Tumblr post when I have between 10 and 20. I can do some Rise in there if you want.

Any requests for an outfit or whatever?



PFFFT.

I want to see the girls of P4 wearing the clothes of the girls in P3, and vice versa. Then again, I've never been one to tell an artist what to draw, let it come from your soul.
 

Dantis

Member
Apr 18, 2012
15,693
1
0
Clearly you need to draw her as the boss of The Saints.

...Probably not.

I'll think of something. There'll be some Rise in there for sure.

I have bad news for you, Dantis...

I don't trust your judgement!

I want to see the girls of P4 wearing the clothes of the girls in P3, and vice versa. Then again, I've never been one to tell an artist what to draw, let it come from your soul.

Lower scale, haha. One to two characters per sketch.

They're just small things I'll be doing between bigger things, because I have a short attention span.
 

Acid08

Banned
Feb 4, 2008
40,966
0
0
Bay Area, Cali
Yes and no. Games are, primarily, a business. So you can say that a game is bad in that sense if it lacks wider appeal and fails to sell. Apart from that, creating a game is an art, and art should be judged as such. There are very few, if any, objectively bad games. Almost everything will have its fans, and again, who are you to say differently?
So let's just not judge anything ever because there might be someone out there who likes it. You wanna tell me that I can't think the newest Gears of War game is designed poorly for straight up lifting exact gameplay sequences from past games because that game is "art" and has its fans? Bull fucking shit I can't.
 

Moonlight

Banned
Oct 16, 2012
10,506
0
0
How does having fans disqualify something from being objectively bad?

There's plenty of objectively bad literature that has fans and that doesn't make it any less objectively bad.
 

Daimaou

Member
Sep 18, 2011
746
0
0
So let's just not judge anything ever because there might be someone out there who likes it. You wanna tell me that I can't think the newest Gears of War game is designed poorly for straight up lifting exact gameplay sequences from past games because that game is "art" and has its fans? Bull fucking shit I can't.

Your own value judgments have no value except to you and those who hold similar tastes. You're entitled to like or not like something, you're not entitled to say someone else cannot like something because you don't.
 

ramyeon

Member
Dec 1, 2010
15,615
0
0
How does having fans disqualify something from being objectively bad?

There's plenty of objectively bad literature that has fans and that doesn't make it any less objectively bad.
Because if people like it and others don't that then makes it clearly subjective.
 

Squire

Banned
Feb 6, 2011
26,542
0
0
Los Angeles
Your own value judgments have no value except to you and those who hold similar tastes. You're entitled to like or not like something, you're not entitled to say someone else cannot like something because you don't.

You fundamentally misunderstand the argument. Not only did I not say this, I've said repeatedly that I am not talking about preference or personal taste.

I think I'm going to file P2 as being considered 'retroactively bad'. I wonder what you all would think of it had you played it in '99.

That's completely fair and I agree. Everything is a product of it's time and different things endure better or worse than others.
 

Moonlight

Banned
Oct 16, 2012
10,506
0
0
Because of people like it and others don't that then makes it clearly subjective.
You can have a subjective opinion on an objective thing.

Objectively bad literature exists. It's literally a thing. It means it does things that are considered absolute writing no-nos. There's plenty of people who will read objectively bad literature and call it the best thing they've ever read. This doesn't disqualify it from being objectively bad literature.
 

Daimaou

Member
Sep 18, 2011
746
0
0
You fundamentally misunderstand the argument. Not only did I not say this, I've said repeatedly that I am not talking about preference or personal taste.

Yes you are.

Game has Mechanic

I like Mechanic, You do not like Mechanic.

Who is right? No one, it is subjective. It is impossible to prove it is objectively bad, because the difference in opinion makes it automatically subjective.
 

Squire

Banned
Feb 6, 2011
26,542
0
0
Los Angeles
Yes you are.

Game has Mechanic

I like Mechanic, You do not like Mechanic.

Who is right? No one, it is subjective. It is impossible to prove it is objectively bad, because the difference in opinion makes it automatically subjective.

Which mechanic? I have no clue what you're talking about since I have yet to cite a specific mechanic here. I've said nothing more specific than "P2's gameplay" here.
 

Acid08

Banned
Feb 4, 2008
40,966
0
0
Bay Area, Cali
Your own value judgments have no value except to you and those who hold similar tastes. You're entitled to like or not like something, you're not entitled to say someone else cannot like something because you don't.
You basically want all dialogue about games to end with this bull, discussions and arguments cannot happen without differing opinions going up against each other.
 

Daimaou

Member
Sep 18, 2011
746
0
0
Which mechanic? I have no clue what you're talking about since I have yet to cite a specific mechanic here. I've said nothing more specific than "P2's gameplay" here.

It literally doesn't matter. This applies to any mechanic.

You basically want all dialogue about games to end with this bull, discussions and arguments cannot happen without differing opinions going up against each other.

No, there is a difference between saying, "I do not like this, these are the reasons why" and "I do not like this, this is objectively bad and no one can like it."
 
Which mechanic? I have no clue what you're talking about since I have yet to cite a specific mechanic here. I've said nothing more specific than "P2's gameplay" here.

Usually the common complaints leveraged against P2 include grinding, demon negotiation, random battles, labyrinthine dungeons, and the adult cast.
(Well, Japan on the last one. Sane people acknowledge the last one as a huge positive in a sea of teenage JRPG casts.)
 

Dantis

Member
Apr 18, 2012
15,693
1
0
YOU'RE IN DENIAL DAN-KUN.

It's quite the cute picture.

NOPE.

You should draw some trauma center characters Dantis.

They're in a different style, because it's Doi.

I could draw it in my own style, but then it wouldn't be animu. :p

Usually the common complaints leveraged against P2 include grinding, demon negotiation, random battles, labyrinthine dungeons, and the adult cast.
(Well, Japan on the last one. Sane people acknowledge the last one as a huge positive in a sea of teenage JRPG casts.)

I do not believe this for a second.
 

Acid08

Banned
Feb 4, 2008
40,966
0
0
Bay Area, Cali
Usually the common complaints leveraged against P2 include grinding, demon negotiation, random battles, labyrinthine dungeons, and the adult cast.
(Well, Japan on the last one. Sane people acknowledge the last one as a huge positive in a sea of teenage JRPG casts.)
For the sake of argument: grinding is an objectively bad mechanic. Do people really enjoy having to pour hours upon hours into repetitive battles just so they can progress in the story? It's bad game design to force a player to do this.
 

Squire

Banned
Feb 6, 2011
26,542
0
0
Los Angeles
For the sake of argument: grinding is an objectively bad mechanic. Do people really enjoy having to pour hours upon hours into repetitive battles just so they can progress in the story? It's bad game design to force a player to do this.

I'd say not wasting the players time and making good use of it is paramount, but then Daimaou will just say he likes grinding in P2 and void my point entirely.

Darn!

What kind of outfit would that even be?

Link me something and I'll maybe do it.


Keep in mind that the quality will be lower than usual, also.

It's difficult to say because the MC in Saints Row is fully customizable, but I'll see if I can something worth using as a base.

You could honestly just draw Rise in anything resembling thug attire with a lot of purple.