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Peter Boghossian: our institutions are unsalvageable

Papa

Banned
Apr 25, 2009
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I'm not arguing about activism, as I've tried to explain already numerous times, I'm arguing for possibility for people to speak their minds at the workplace without fear of termination. I don't know what the accusation of dishonesty is for. I think I've argued my point in good faith.

Tried and failed because you just handwaved a hypothetical single instance as Not True Activism. That is dishonest but your argument is dependent on it. As I said, if I murder someone, I cannot argue to a court that I am not a murderer just because it was a single instance.

We are dealing with a generational issue where late millennials and early gen-z kids appear to think that the workplace is the platform to air their personal grievances. When you are employed by someone, you work to increase their profitability. You do not abuse the privilege of gainful employment for personal activism.
 
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Durask

Member
Feb 6, 2012
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Peter actually made a good point and he said if these people who are pushing this diversity obsessive stuff actually believed it, they’d resign from their own jobs and give them to lesser privileged people. However, none of them are doing this.
Yep

They claim that they are using their privilege to lift lesser privileged people and also they are rooting out racist whites which then can be replaced with lesser privileged people.
 

QSD

Member
Nov 8, 2020
549
594
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Amsterdam
www.quixoticsounddesign.com
Tried and failed because you just handwaved a hypothetical single instance as Not True Activism. That is dishonest but your argument is dependent on it. As I said, if I murder someone, I cannot argue to a court that I am not a murderer just because it was a single instance.

No but you can argue that you are not a serial killer. I'm speaking in favour of people being able to speak their mind at their workplace, that isn't by necessity 'activism'
I'd also argue that it's not only more moral but also more practical because if you fire anyone who speaks up about something you create a culture of fear, where you are surrounded by yes men and there are no "checks" on your decisions

Tried and failed because you just handwaved a hypothetical single instance as Not True Activism. That is dishonest but your argument is dependent on it. As I said, if I murder someone, I cannot argue to a court that I am not a murderer just because it was a single instance.

We are dealing with a generational issue where late millennials and early gen-z kids appear to think that the workplace is the platform to air their personal grievances. When you are employed by someone, you work to increase their profitability. You do not abuse the privilege of gainful employment for personal activism.

Yeah, OK I guess...? That's not how things go in the real world.
 

Papa

Banned
Apr 25, 2009
23,408
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He/him
No but you can argue that you are not a serial killer. I'm speaking in favour of people being able to speak their mind at their workplace, that isn't by necessity 'activism'
I'd also argue that it's not only more moral but also more practical because if you fire anyone who speaks up about something you create a culture of fear, where you are surrounded by yes men and there are no "checks" on your decisions



Yeah, OK I guess...? That's not how things go in the real world.

I don't care whether the activism is serial. I care about the particular instance and will judge it on its merits.

Would you agree that when you promote workplace activism (or, if you prefer, speaking your mind on social issues that are tangential to the profitability of the business), you will attract people who are more motivated to prioritise social issues over the profitability of the company? Do you think this would attract people who are more interested in the championing than the cause? Do you think that this could be detrimental to the business' sustainability?
 
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QSD

Member
Nov 8, 2020
549
594
340
Amsterdam
www.quixoticsounddesign.com
I don't care whether the activism is serial. I care about the particular instance and will judge it on its merits.

Would you agree that when you promote workplace activism (or, if you prefer, speaking your mind on social issues that are tangential to the profitability of the business), you will attract people who are more motivated to prioritise social issues over the profitability of the company? Do you think this would attract people who are more interested in the championing than the cause? Do you think that this could be detrimental to the business' sustainability?

I think that if you create a working environment where people are not at risk of being instantly fired over expressing a (dissenting) opinion that employees will be happier, more motivated, more productive and more likely to speak highly of your company as an employer, thereby attracting better and more capable employees. You wil also make better business decisions and benefit from a general culture of non-cynical exchange between employer and employee. If you want to employ highly capable people, be prepared to listen.
 

Papa

Banned
Apr 25, 2009
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I think that if you create a working environment where people are not at risk of being instantly fired over expressing a (dissenting) opinion that employees will be happier, more motivated, more productive and more likely to speak highly of your company as an employer, thereby attracting better and more capable employees. You wil also make better business decisions and benefit from a general culture of non-cynical exchange between employer and employee. If you want to employ highly capable people, be prepared to listen.

Don't shift the goalposts. We're not talking about general dissenting opinions. We're talking about social activism. My boss encourages dissenting opinions as it helps us to highlight blind spots. But they are restricted to work topics that will help to improve the performance of our function and, subsequently, the profitability of the company.

I will repeat for you one more time in case you didn't hear: the :messenger_clapping: workplace :messenger_clapping: is :messenger_clapping: not :messenger_clapping: the :messenger_clapping: platform :messenger_clapping: for :messenger_clapping: your :messenger_clapping: personal :messenger_clapping: activism.
 
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QSD

Member
Nov 8, 2020
549
594
340
Amsterdam
www.quixoticsounddesign.com
Don't shift the goalposts. We're not talking about general dissenting opinions. We're talking about social activism. My boss encourages dissenting opinions as it helps us to highlight blind spots. But they are restricted to work topics that will help to improve the performance of our function and, subsequently, the profitability of the company.

I will repeat for you one more time in case you didn't hear: the :messenger_clapping: workplace :messenger_clapping: is :messenger_clapping: not :messenger_clapping: the :messenger_clapping: platform :messenger_clapping: for :messenger_clapping: your :messenger_clapping: personal :messenger_clapping: activism.

YOU are talking about activism. I've repeated that it's not what I'm arguing here. I'm out cause it's late and we're running in circles.
 
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Reactions: Papa

Papa

Banned
Apr 25, 2009
23,408
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He/him
YOU are talking about activism. I've repeated that it's not what I'm arguing here. I'm out cause it's late and we're running in circles.

You can give it whatever label you like. The behaviour you are describing is activism.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Dec 26, 2008
11,322
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They've become a political and ideological battleground like pretty much everything else in society.

The only difference is that they got a headstart.