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Petition for Square-Enix Final Fantasy XI level 75 cap server

Bullet Club

Gold Member
Posted for O OmegaFFXI

Does anyone remember the old Final Fantasy XI? Before "modernization" took place and made most of the content soloable and added a vertical equipment system where rewards are gained with minimal effort and have much less meaning and value? When you had to form bonds and friendships to succeed, to defeat enemies and overcome obstacles? When setting up skillchains and magic bursts required thought, when making gil required effort, when crafting skills were severely important to the economy and provided invaluable items and even endgame equipment? When beating the Chains of Promathia expansion was a grand achievement? They don't make games like this anymore, because old style games don't reach as wide of an audience, and those of us who prefer the older days, which were much more community oriented, have nowhere to go.

I could go on and on, but let's get to the point. Legacy/classic type servers for MMOs have become more and more popular, with many of their servers having a higher population than their current version servers. Everquest, Everquest 2, RIFT, Age of Conan, RuneScape, Ragnarok Online, Lineage 2 and soon World of Warcraft and Lord of the Rings Online have all invested in such a server - and all are successful. I believe that Final Fantasy XI belongs on this list, and so I've started this petition to Square-Enix to bring this era back to us. Your signature as well as sharing with any of your FFXI friends is greatly appreciated.

https://www.change.org/p/square-enix-official-square-enix-final-fantasy-xi-level-75-era-server
 

FrankCaron

Member
As someone who played to cap back in 2003/4, I would never want to go back to that. Your rose-tinted glasses are blinding you to how utterly brutal the grind was even on a full pop server. 365 days played to cap is not something anyone should be excited about reliving.

That said, I do have fond memories of waking up at 2 am just to play overnight with the JP players who were significantly better at long-term XP chain parties. I just could never fathom going back to when "grind" equated with "good".

Savouring content and co-op are not dependent on a mandatory grind.
 
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OmegaFFXI

Neo Member
There are things that make the grind faster and easier to deal with, that would surely be included in a legacy server, as 99% of legacy servers tend to keep some modern quality of life features anyway.

Half the reason you are remembering hating the grind is due to the horrid EXP formula for parties. If the mobs or even just 1 party member were off by just 1 measly level, it had a large impact on experience points. This is fixed with level sync, which not only negates the formula but also increases the amount of people available for partying by allowing you to party with players outside of your level range (although private servers tend to put a ~20 level gap limit on that so that people aren't hitting level 75 in the dunes, which I agree with). Another useful feature for leveling is EXP rings. You'll also spend a bit less time traveling due to your knowledge of outpost warps, which I am sure you, like the rest of us, didn't know about for a long time.

Knowledge itself makes the grind faster. It's never 100% the same when going back to an older era via a legacy server, because we don't have to spend as much time asking questions and looking up information on forums and wikis. We all know how to play more efficiently this time around. We know where the EXP camps are and how to get to them. We know how to play our classes effectively (though this is also a great opportunity to play a class you always wanted to but never did). We know how important accuracy and haste is for melees (not to mention the game changing Sushi food added during the CoP era). We know to, for God's sake, make sure you don't miss any NPCs/cutscenes when doing missions. ; ; Don't forget to click the ???!

If rose tinted glasses are a thing, then so are black dahlia tinted ones. People like to throw that term out there regarding servers like this but the truth is they've been a thing for over 15 years for a plethora of MMOs, both official and private. You can't really say it's just nostalgia when we (TONS of people) are actually playing on the servers - not just reminiscing. It's not in our imagination, it's literally in our hands.
 
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I played this game for 10 solid years. I know I can never fire it up again, because I would totally lose myself in it and want to dedicate all my time to it. This game is literally my drug.
 

OmarLexus

Member
I'd love for it to happen, but I don't think SE would ever go for it. If I may suggest it, NasomiXI has what you're looking for. I resubbed to XI and finished the story for my birthday this year and swapped back and forth between NasXI and retail for a while. Ultimately I gave both of them a rest and I'm just going to sit tight and wait for FFXI mobile now.
 

Boss Mog

Member
Listen, I think FFXI is by far the greatest game ever made no joke, but I would never want to go back to 75 cap despite all the great memories I have of that time. Yes you had a great sense of accomplishment when you finally beat impossibly hard fights but you also had tons of agony and frustration from all the losses that came before. Since the cap was raised so many quality of life improvements were made to the game that make it much less frustrating and time consuming to play. Back in the 75 days it took so much time just to get anywhere be it by chocobo, ship, airship or even mage teleportation. You literally wasted hours upon hours every day you played just traveling. The game forced you to cooperate almost constantly in order to accomplish anything, even the most basic tasks and while that was good for building camaraderie with others, it often left you extremely frustrated when you couldn't find somebody to help you do something as simple as open doors (some of which, in certain dungeons, required multiple people to open).

FFXI was also extremely elistist back then seeing as how difficult it was, people got very upset with players that "messed up" or didn't have good gear. Also camping HNMs was very time consuming and with the rampant cheaters often extremely frustrating. It was a lot harder to make Gil back then too, especially for the average player. For them it would require endless hours of farming near worthless items. The whole game was just one giant time waste filled with endless frustration with the occasional moment of greatness when you achieved your goal making seem like all the rest was worth but it's just the endorphins playing tricks on your brain.

When Abyssea and the level cap increase were announced a lot of players quit and I was one of them, believing that the efforts I made to get the best gears would be reduced to nothing as they would soon become obsolete. After a year of pouting, I decided that I should give it a try because what was the point of staying with the same strength with the same gears, I realized it was good to try to reach greater heights with all new gears. As I started to play I realized Abyssea was really amazing and so much fun and it could be low-manned with 2 to 4 people if you couldn't get a full party together which was great. Abyssea tied in really well with the previous storylines as it blended the parallel worlds introduced in Wing of the Goddess with Chains of Promathia's story where Abyssea was a parallel world where Promathia became Shinryu and killed most of the FFXI's hero NPC characters that helped you beat him (including you) in your Vana'diel except for Prishe. Walk of Echoes and Voidwatch were great end-game additions at the time as well. Fighting Provenance Watcher with a full alliance was quite fun.

The cap was 99 now, but everything changed again as Seekers of Adoulin was announced and although the 99 cap wasn't changing, you would actually gain increased level power via gear now, which made all old gear completely useless as they lacked the level raising attributes, particularly all weapons which lacked increased skill levels which would mean constant missing if you fought anything except the most basic of Adoulin monsters. This was a tough time for a lot of people because you couldn't get the level raising gears easily, especially the lv.119 ones which were the best and made you the equivalent of a lv.119 character if you had a full 119 armor set and weapon. Most groups doing Delve, the content that rewarded you with the best 119 gears at the time, were elitist and required people to already have 119 gears to participate, at the very least if you were a DD, because Delve was very hard back then and really to win within the time limit, you needed to have DD that could damage the final boss. Seeing this SE introduces new armors that were easily obtainable that were lv117 and made if easier to participate in Adoulin content.

The Adoulin storyline was great and SE was done and released a free final expansion Rhapsodies of Vana'diel that tied all the storylines together and it a great way to end the game. They added fantastic endgame content in the for of the Escha zones, Vagary, Incursion, Omen, Sinister Reign and Ambuscade (easy way of making Gil or getting great gear for the average player) among others. They added so many quality of life improvements that make the game a joy to play rather than a chore, you can get around easily and they added the ability for your favorite FFXI NPCs to be summoned to your party to fight alongside you and this is the best feature they've ever introduced despite what naysayers think. You often have to do quests to unlock them so that's fun and while they are a great help they won't replace a good player, but they allow you to do certain things solo or low-man which would otherwise be impossible or much harder. That doesn't mean they'll let you do everything, far from it, they mostly allow you to do the storyline but most endgame content can't be soloed using them. SE introduced Job Points, a new form of experience points you can spend to make your job stronger, once you have max out a job's job points you become Master and have the 3-star Master logo over your character name. These job points are very slow and tedious to get and the fastest way to do it is in a full party, so if you miss old school leveling, it still exists today in the form of Job Points.

Also since the 75 cap SE has done a pretty good job at balancing the jobs. Black Mages and Scholars were mostly irrelevant at 75 but became extremely powerful since SE significantly boosted Magic Burst damage. On Black Mage you can often Magic Burst tier VI nukes or Death for 99,999 damage with the proper buffs. DDs now attack so fast that it is pretty easy to self-skillchain on most DD jobs. Blue Mage, which is my favorite job has become a melee DD powerhouse but also a potent nuker (especially aoe, BLU aoe nukes are actually way better than BLM aoe nukes). You can actually self-skillchain on BLU, then Magic Burst your own skillchain. It's pretty cool. Melee combat was so slugish back in the 75 cap days, now it's is incredibly fast thanks to spells like Haste II and so much Triple Attack gear available. I could never go back to the slow combat of 75 cap. The animations have trouble keeping up you attack so fast now. Also the new job that were introduced in Seekers of Adoulin, namely Geomancer and Rune Fencer are both fantastic jobs and I couldn't picture FFXI without them now, especially Geomancer. So much of the great game that is FFXI today would be lost at 75 cap

In short FFXI has never been better than it is now except for the lack of players but that's hard to escape for such an old game and with FFXIV being out. But FFXI and FFXIV couldn't be more different from eachother, FFXI is a real FF game at its core, with MMO elements added whereas FFXIV is a WoW-like MMO at its core with FF elements added. Looking back at 75 cap without the nostalgia googles on will reveal that the game was mostly a chore and the only thing that made it playable was the great community of people. If anything there should be a petition to have SE remake the current game with a new graphics engine and voicing for the cutscenes and have it F2P. They could easily make a fortune on costumes alone like Fortnite does.

There's so much more I want to say and improvements i want to highlight but I feel like I've rambled on enough for now and just in case you think I don't know what I'm talking about, I have over 18,000 hours of playtime on FFXI (that's like 2 years of my life):

Keep in mind this playtime is over a period of 12 years and that I sometimes stayed logged in all day when I wasn't playing to bazaar things or just cause I didn't want to have to log back in, which is a hassle. Most of my friends and family had no clue I even played it. I didn't really play any other game though, so most of my gaming time was spent on it rather than playing a bunch of different games.
 
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OmegaFFXI

Neo Member
Bossa, I'm beginning to ponder if you have even played the game at all. You wrote so much that isn't true and if I respond to it all it will just turn this into a flame post. So I will just leave it at this: you've made it clear you like to be incredibly strong so that you don't need to rely on others to do anything, so it's no wonder you like the current game. And hey, that's great. I don't look down upon those who want to play the current version. Unlike all the doomsayers regarding legacy servers, or the ones who think there can only be one version, I don't think like that. I believe both versions (even multiple versions, when you look at games like World of Warcraft and Everquest) can coexist. But it doesn't matter if i believe it or not, really, since on this very planet today, companies are successfully running both versions of their games and have been for years.

Anyway, some of us like games where you can solo skillchains and magicbursts. But some of us like games where you do those things with other people. I don't think one is more important than the other and I don't see why people should only have one option to choose from.
 

Clear

Member
Nobody really wants this. Seriously. The game is simply much better than it was back at the ass-end of the 75 era.

Its also got less than zero chance of happening because SE just isn't going to spend the money on this when the game is basically being maintained by a small staff stretched thin as it is.

I say this as someone who's been playing since 2004, is a sack in one of the largest active shells in the game (former all servers #1 on FFXIAH), and still is achieving stuff daily.
 
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OmegaFFXI

Neo Member
You don't want this but there are a lot of people who do. Enough to justify at least 1 server. It's not going to take people away from the current version, don't worry. It's not good social practice to call people nobodies just because they want something different from you. Many of us want the level 75 version so badly that we play on an incredibly bug ridden and broken private server with a tyrannical owner who never even made it past level 50 on retail back then. Because there is no other option. All we want is a real option, like everyone else who plays every other MMO gets.
 

Mr Nash

square pies = communism
Even if Square made a lvl 75 server, how many people would use it, especially if they've gone through the trouble of making and leveling characters on the various private servers that are built around the lvl 75 experience?
 

zeorhymer

Member
No thanks. Spent 10 years of my life on the game and have no intention of going back to it. It was a fun ride, but all good things must come to an end.
 

D.Final

Banned
My experience with Final Fantasy XI was really fantastic.
And, honestly, I am ready to return to immerse myself in that atmosphere even immediately.

That's why I'm very happy with the future arrival of a mobile version of Final Fantasy XI.
(of which there is an event dedicated to it in December, if I remember correctly)
 

Clear

Member
You don't want this but there are a lot of people who do. Enough to justify at least 1 server. It's not going to take people away from the current version, don't worry. It's not good social practice to call people nobodies just because they want something different from you. Many of us want the level 75 version so badly that we play on an incredibly bug ridden and broken private server with a tyrannical owner who never even made it past level 50 on retail back then. Because there is no other option. All we want is a real option, like everyone else who plays every other MMO gets.

Why not just play the current game and simply ignore all the conveniences and improvements that have come along since then? Noone is forcing you to use trusts, hp's, survival guides, vw warps, xp boosting ki like found in RoV etc. That game is still there, and its not like there's any sort of competition on that content.

I have to be honest, I've never understood the fixation with the stagnant era pre-Abyssea. It boiled down to grinding the same few xp camps, the same stale end-game activities (usually monopolized by whoever had the latest bots), and most of all the same few jobs being used for everything.

Was finishing CoP pre-nerfs satisfying, sure, but having beaten that content 4x over on different characters you really start to see how artificially extended it was especially thanks to the numbing amount of inter-zone travel involved and number of pointless day-waits between stages. More to the point, it was no more satisfying to me than some of the mission and endgame stuff added subsequently.

The relatively recent changes to quality-of-life are huge. And there's plenty of challenge in the post 99 content, which is essentially a thing unto itself. People still need to organize and cooperate on stuff, its just not mired in a situation where you waste hours lfp in Jeuno or Whitegate because the alternative is killing EP's for 20xp a time.
 

Joe T.

Member
Even if Square made a lvl 75 server, how many people would use it, especially if they've gone through the trouble of making and leveling characters on the various private servers that are built around the lvl 75 experience?

I would definitely jump to an officially run 75 cap server provided it retained at least some of the more reasonable quality of life adjustments (re: no point beefing up XP per mob at 75 cap or keeping Trusts, but mounts and Survival Guides might make sense). I gave the Nasomi server a try this summer with a decent sized group of former (Cerberus) players from the retail game and we had a good time, but there are a lot of issues, trivial and major alike, that keep it from being a good 75 cap server for me (BCNMs, anti-botting measures/HNMs, much lower population size, etc).

I have thousands of days poured into FFXI and would gladly pay to revisit it if SE was running the show, even though I wouldn't be playing it with that same 24/7 obsession I did back then.
 

Pejo

Member
You'd need a significant population to make this actually work, not sure everyone has the free time required anymore to actually do it. It's a damn shame, as prime FFXI was my all time favorite gaming experience that I am fully aware will never be topped. I was hoping the mobile version would be this, but I haven't seen any updates on that for years. There are plenty of private servers that already do this, and I checked a few out. They can even manipulate xp rates and drop rates and such, but it's just not the same without a large number of players, IMO.
 

Dthomp

Member
Personally, I would love this. I barely hit 75 when my linkshell broke up and I was lost and began working too much to find a new group. I tried going back, but the thing I loved about ffxi is the group experience. If I wanted a single player mmo I’d play wow. The memories of getting to max level is what I miss the most.
 

demigod

Member
No thanks OP. I got a lot of jobs to 75 pre abyssea, tried Nasomi server and said F no. FFXI is a terrible game to have a classic game. I can play FFXI at my own pace now unlike before where I everything was group or linkshell content.
 

Boss Mog

Member
Why not just play the current game and simply ignore all the conveniences and improvements that have come along since then? Noone is forcing you to use trusts, hp's, survival guides, vw warps, xp boosting ki like found in RoV etc. That game is still there, and its not like there's any sort of competition on that content.

I have to be honest, I've never understood the fixation with the stagnant era pre-Abyssea. It boiled down to grinding the same few xp camps, the same stale end-game activities (usually monopolized by whoever had the latest bots), and most of all the same few jobs being used for everything.

Was finishing CoP pre-nerfs satisfying, sure, but having beaten that content 4x over on different characters you really start to see how artificially extended it was especially thanks to the numbing amount of inter-zone travel involved and number of pointless day-waits between stages. More to the point, it was no more satisfying to me than some of the mission and endgame stuff added subsequently.

The relatively recent changes to quality-of-life are huge. And there's plenty of challenge in the post 99 content, which is essentially a thing unto itself. People still need to organize and cooperate on stuff, its just not mired in a situation where you waste hours lfp in Jeuno or Whitegate because the alternative is killing EP's for 20xp a time.
Couldn't have said it better myself

Bossa, I'm beginning to ponder if you have even played the game at all. You wrote so much that isn't true and if I respond to it all it will just turn this into a flame post. So I will just leave it at this: you've made it clear you like to be incredibly strong so that you don't need to rely on others to do anything, so it's no wonder you like the current game. And hey, that's great. I don't look down upon those who want to play the current version. Unlike all the doomsayers regarding legacy servers, or the ones who think there can only be one version, I don't think like that. I believe both versions (even multiple versions, when you look at games like World of Warcraft and Everquest) can coexist. But it doesn't matter if i believe it or not, really, since on this very planet today, companies are successfully running both versions of their games and have been for years.

Anyway, some of us like games where you can solo skillchains and magicbursts. But some of us like games where you do those things with other people. I don't think one is more important than the other and I don't see why people should only have one option to choose from.

LMAO, wtf? Everything I said is 100% fact and truth and I'm guessing you haven't played the current game much if at all. Nah I was never an elitist and I didn't particularly care about being "incredibly strong", I just tried being the best I could realistically be skill-wise and gear-wise, basically I wanted to be useful to the people I played with and be able to help them, that's all. And like I said all current endgame content still pretty much requires a group. Trust NPC just make your life easier when you want to solo stuff that's soloable so you don't bother others, plus it's fun to do certain things solo. It also allows you to play certain jobs solo that you normally couldn't because you can have August tanking and Apururu curing. The truth is there aren't enough people who want a 75 cap server to warrant making one and I wouldn't wish such a cruel fate on new players, I'd much rather they experience the game in its current form. And like Clear said, in the current game, you're free to stay at 75 cap and not visit any of the new zones, nothing prevents you from doing that.
 
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Clear

Member
The thing is as well, these days getting to 99 doesn't mean you are close to being done with your job. The difference between a new 99 and one with 2100jp is for most jobs, like night and day. Capping those (in terms of effort) is easily equivalent to maxing merit points in the 75 era and then some.

The fact of the matter is that although the process of levelling to 99 is relatively trivial these days, its basically only a prerequisite to where the modern game actually starts. Making Relics and Mythics is much the same, sure making the 75version is relatively easy, but in terms of real usefulness you are nowhere near a worthwhile weapon. You need to grind Magian Trials to hit 99, then if its an actual melee piece you need to grind plutons/beitetsu/boulders to make the 119 version, then the AG119 to make it competitive, then grind Astrals in Dyna D for the current final augmentations.

This last stage btw requires beating the relevant Dyna-D boss (which is realistically a large group-only task), or donating a colossal 10,000 JP's just to unlock the upgrade.

The point being, the only thing that's fallen by the wayside really since the 75 era, are competitive-claim NM hunts (botters and gil-sellers with them), and a whole load of inconveniences and time-sinks. The game is better now than it was back in the 75 era by a huge margin.
 

Gromph

This tag is currently undergoing scheduled maintenance...
Staff Member
I'm here with with @BossâMoogle. FFXI is the best game of my lifetime.

The problem going back to a 75 cap server is simple... The people with who i played that game is gone, and i can't devote so much time to a game now.

I do play from time to time too (BLU Master).... Seeing you with that Tartarus platemail.. make me want to dust my Kraken club again.
 

Shouta

Member
I didn't play much of Seekers of Adoulin but Abyssea was by far the best period of the game for me. It was the perfect mix of the old game while making it accessible and fun for everyone. A ton of jobs became more playable and useful in that period where they languished in the 75 cap era. That itself was huge. Not being able to enjoy content because people don't want you on a job you like is what made the 75 cap era just straight awful.
 

OmegaFFXI

Neo Member
It's really weird that some people act like class balance was bad at 75, when class balance is just as bad if not worse today. Or that elitism doesn't exist today. From my experience the elitism is far worse today than it ever was. It's especially worse due to the fact leveling and gearing is a joke now, so you have "no excuse" not to play the flavor of the month classes (for FFXI it's more like flavor of the year(s)). The current game forces me to play classes I don't want to play. Level 75 never did that to me. And would you like to have conversations about completely broken and overpowered classes like Geomancer, Summoner, Beastmaster, and Blue Mage? What about people who enjoy playing classes like Monk, Red Mage, Puppetmaster, Ranger, or Dragoon? At 75 each job had a role, and something they brought to the group. Today? What do these classes bring that either another class doesn't, or bring an ability that people actually care about having in their group?

Bossa, I will not be reading or responding to any of your posts because you either don't have any idea what you're talking about or you're a troll. You showed your playtime as a "listen to me I know what I'm saying" approach but as we all know in life, age doesn't mean much in regards to knowledge. If it did, I would just tout my 2000+ days played and that would mean you'd have to listen to me, right? But I'm not here to join in any "I'm better than you" tactics so anything you say will be disregarded. Sorry.

You are never going to make me understand the point of not wanting something someone else wants just because you don't want it. If I were to imagine myself going to forums and posting that the current game should be shut down or not exist just because I don't like it and prefer something different, it would make little sense to me.

Also, in regards to "how many people would actually play this" that keeps being asked over and over. I frequently have to repeat this: people play on servers like this for all kinds of MMOs, whether official or private. Why would people play older versions of Ultima Online, Everquest, Everquest 2, Dark Age of Camelot, World of Warcraft, Ragnarok Online, Lineage 2, RIFT, etc. but not play older versions of Final Fantasy XI? Do you think the older versions of those games was a hunky dory pleasantry fest? Do you think people don't grind grind grind in those games? Do you think there aren't people claiming that their current game is better and rose tinted glasses this and nostalgia that? Yet the classic servers exist anyway. I have played all of them, I know what the major differences are from the old to the new. Each and every one of them can basically be called 2 completely different and separate games when comparing classic to current. And FFXI is the same way.
 

demigod

Member
I'm here with with @BossâMoogle. FFXI is the best game of my lifetime.

The problem going back to a 75 cap server is simple... The people with who i played that game is gone, and i can't devote so much time to a game now.

I do play from time to time too (BLU Master).... Seeing you with that Tartarus platemail.. make me want to dust my Kraken club again.

Gromph, me Vel and Rawkhawk are playing again. We’re still on Sylph. Come join us!
 

Joe T.

Member
FFXI was also extremely elistist back then seeing as how difficult it was, people got very upset with players that "messed up" or didn't have good gear. Also camping HNMs was very time consuming and with the rampant cheaters often extremely frustrating. It was a lot harder to make Gil back then too, especially for the average player. For them it would require endless hours of farming near worthless items. The whole game was just one giant time waste filled with endless frustration with the occasional moment of greatness when you achieved your goal making seem like all the rest was worth but it's just the endorphins playing tricks on your brain.

You can make the same argument about today's game regarding elitism and complaints about people messing up or having poor gear. Linkshells are still as picky today as they were in the old days, the difference being that in the old days you had a hierarchy of casual -> mid-tier -> endgame/HNM LS whereas today those mid-tier linkshells no longer exist. That speaks to the irrelevance of low-level/mid-level content these days - why bother spending any time doing Artifact quests, Dynamis, Abyssea, etc when someone can easily solo their way to level cap without picking up a single piece of gear?

I would also argue there are far more cheaters today than there were back during 75 days, as difficult as it might be for the HNM campers to believe. I can probably point you to a third party app user on command at any point during the day. I'm not even taking gear-swapping tools into account, just claim bots, fishing bots and the like. Some of them tuck themselves away in the less traveled areas of the world to avoid scrutiny, others do it right in plain sight, outside town. The speed hackers also became commonplace years ago, but they're nowhere near as overt these days.

Making gil is relatively the same to me, but I did pour more time into the game than most, so I'll concede this point. It's just that while it's far easier to make today, you also spend more of it and quicker, too. I farmed my way to decent/good level 75 gear back in the old days so I could make it into a HNM linkshell and at that point gil stopped being a concern. The same can be said if you have a tight-knit group today, but the time sink is still very much there.

My experience with Abyssea is very similar to yours, though I think I jumped in right around the time the last of the three expansions went live. I resented SE for that decision to raise the level cap so quickly and phase out HNMs, effectively driving away many of the end game players.

They added so many quality of life improvements that make the game a joy to play rather than a chore, you can get around easily and they added the ability for your favorite FFXI NPCs to be summoned to your party to fight alongside you and this is the best feature they've ever introduced despite what naysayers think. You often have to do quests to unlock them so that's fun and while they are a great help they won't replace a good player, but they allow you to do certain things solo or low-man which would otherwise be impossible or much harder. That doesn't mean they'll let you do everything, far from it, they mostly allow you to do the storyline but most endgame content can't be soloed using them.

Survival Guides, mounts and Trust NPCs are the best of the QoL changes off the top of my head. Trusts completely flipped the game on its head, though, too much power for one person. Shantotto II and Iroha II paired up were usually enough to melt "Incredibly Tough++" monsters, so anyone willing to use a third party app or script could get themselves the 2100 Job Points without ever partying up and without even paying attention. It was a shame.

Also since the 75 cap SE has done a pretty good job at balancing the jobs.

I'm not sure it's any different than the 75 cap days. Blue Mage, which you mentioned, was overpowered for a long time, not sure if that ever really changed. It became a must-have for most content and pushed other jobs out of the picture. The same happened with Summoner after that, everyone rushing to get a Nirvana because of it. GEO became a must-have as well, seems to have remained that way even after some of its spells were patched to be less potent. I haven't played retail in a few months or touched the new Dynamis content, so not sure if that's brought some of the less popular/ignored jobs like Monk back into the fold.

In short FFXI has never been better than it is now except for the lack of players but that's hard to escape for such an old game and with FFXIV being out.

While true, I think Asura has done a good job of both retaining and growing/consolidating its player base over the last few years. When I was playing earlier this year it had close to 3,000 accounts online during the free login periods and floated above 2,000 at points during the summer. It's all the other servers that are struggling. I think the highest I remember seeing during 75 cap, on Cerberus anyway, was somewhere around 9,000 during the Wings of the Goddess era.

My fondest memories are easily from the earlier days. Meeting up new players across the world, joining up with new linkshells and the long list of struggles/achievements we went through together were just more satisfying during that era than they are today. I far prefer that old style of FFXI where you had a plethora of content available to you as you slowly made the climb to 75, so there was no real rush to get to that end game and you had plenty of excuses to wander around exploring the world. Today too much of that world is ignored and it poses almost no risk to the player, the shift in priority towards "instanced" content having gutted what made MMORPGs so appealing to me to begin with.

If SE wanted they could probably find a way to keep both those that prefer the old and the new happy. The rush to level cap is needless if there's enough content to keep everyone happy along the journey, which could easily be addressed by improving things like monster numbers/placement and quest rewards (vast majority of them were laughably bad).
 
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Gromph

This tag is currently undergoing scheduled maintenance...
Staff Member
Gromph, me Vel and Rawkhawk are playing again. We’re still on Sylph. Come join us!
My character is in Asura.

When i got back playing i just transfer because it really break my heart see only 200 people online.

And i just reactivated....
 
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The current game forces me to play classes I don't want to play. Level 75 never did that to me.
Lots of people in my linkshell were forced to level alt jobs for SKY/SEA farming and Dynamis. (at 75 cap). I had to level RDM to be a glorified refresh bot which I HATED with a passion and totally burned me out. A few of my friends quit because they were forced to level MNK and do nothing but stack BOOST outside of the main alliance for hours just to get swapped in for one attack. I realize there were lots of different strats and job lineups for endgame stuff but please believe there were quite a few people who quit the game because they could not play the jobs they wanted to play if they wanted a chance at endgame loot. (at 75 cap)

Looking back at 75 cap without the nostalgia googles on will reveal that the game was mostly a chore and the only thing that made it playable was the great community of people.

Bossa, I will not be reading or responding to any of your posts because you either don't have any idea what you're talking about or you're a troll. You showed your playtime as a "listen to me I know what I'm saying" approach but as we all know in life, age doesn't mean much in regards to knowledge. If it did, I would just tout my 2000+ days played and that would mean you'd have to listen to me, right? But I'm not here to join in any "I'm better than you" tactics so anything you say will be disregarded. Sorry.
Played 11 non-stop from JP beta release to right before Abyssea. (Salvage bans killed my Linkshell) FFXI is easily my favorite game of all time, and I'm an old man who has been gaming since the Coleco days. Disregard him if you want, but I gotta agree with pretty much everything BossaMoogle has been saying here in regards to my own personal FF11 memories.
 
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OmegaFFXI

Neo Member
No one was forced to level anything. If your linkshell was requiring people to change jobs, then that's a problem with your linkshell. They should have only recruited the classes they needed or were low on. That is your linkshell leaders' responsibility. If your linkshell told you to "level X job or leave," then it's no surprise they're the kind of people who cheat and got banned, especially if they were doing "cheese" strats like making people level MNK for chi blast spam... Your distaste of the old game comes from your linkshell's lack of efficiency and skill. Sorry that was your experience, but many of us had a different one.
 

Clear

Member
Trusts completely flipped the game on its head, though, too much power for one person. Shantotto II and Iroha II paired up were usually enough to melt "Incredibly Tough++" monsters, so anyone willing to use a third party app or script could get themselves the 2100 Job Points without ever partying up and without even paying attention.

Ummm, this is just not true. If you want to get CP in a reasonable time-frame you need to be looking at apex level mobs, and fighting those with trusts will take a painfully long time because their dps simply isn't that good. Trusts generally are better at support roles than out and and out offense, and apex mobs have way, way too much hp to keep cp/exp chains alive without consistent skill-chaining... so coordination is constantly required.
 

demigod

Member
My character is in Asura.

When i got back playing i just transfer because it really break my heart see only 200 people online.

And i just reactivated....

I know vel wants to go to Asura at some point but i prefer lower population server. It took me about a week to finish ochain, it would’ve taken me a little bit longer to finish it. Sylph averages 550 during JP hours, NA hours its anout 280.

If you don’t have any friends on Asura come join us on Sylph, we could use some help from a Master!

OP might get his wish if they release the game on mobile. They have an event coming up I believe in December.
 
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Joe T.

Member
Ummm, this is just not true. If you want to get CP in a reasonable time-frame you need to be looking at apex level mobs, and fighting those with trusts will take a painfully long time because their dps simply isn't that good. Trusts generally are better at support roles than out and and out offense, and apex mobs have way, way too much hp to keep cp/exp chains alive without consistent skill-chaining... so coordination is constantly required.

It depends on your expectations. Some people want everything ASAP and they'll want to do just as you said, party up with some experienced players and go to an Apex camp, but even the most pimped out players were AFKing in Reisenjima or Outer Rakazar, sometimes with six playable characters all automated with scripts. When you're at work or you're sleeping I doubt anyone cares about the CP differential because anything is better than nothing.
 

Clear

Member
The differential in cp yield from apex mobs versus anything else is immense, and the higher you get in job-points the number you need to unlock a gift/improve a category stretches out. These days most cp'ing gets done when double/triple campaigns are on because people want to be done in a reasonable time. The only alternative for getting capped cp/kill outside of those is grinding the highest levels of Apex mobs in inner/outer ra-kaz, camps that require effort to reach and are relatively few in number.

The point is that if you want to be effective, you need to put the work in same as in the old days. The main difference is that you can still make some, slower, progress without resorting to fighting the toughest mobs the game has to offer. I fail to see how this is a bad thing.
 

Ichabod

Banned
FFXI was my first MMO. I started somewhere in the midway point between CoP and ToAU and played the game, almost exclusively, for years. I have so many great memories of adventures with RL friends and some kick ass randoms that I will cherish to the day I die. To date I've never felt the same connection I felt with my ffxi avatar. I legit cried when I retired my character.

With that said, however, I could never soldier through such an archaically designed MMO ever again. I'm content with warm memories. Now if they remade the game as an offline single player rpg with all the qol additions I've heard about...
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
FFXI was my first MMO. I started somewhere in the midway point between CoP and ToAU and played the game, almost exclusively, for years. I have so many great memories of adventures with RL friends and some kick ass randoms that I will cherish to the day I die. To date I've never felt the same connection I felt with my ffxi avatar. I legit cried when I retired my character.

With that said, however, I could never soldier through such an archaically designed MMO ever again. I'm content with warm memories. Now if they remade the game as an offline single player rpg with all the qol additions I've heard about...

Right there with you brother. FFXI was my first as well on the 360. Fell in love. Still have it on PC today although I lost my old account I restarted 15 years later. Don't even care. My problem is, without the population to handle it, FFXI in it's original form would be soon abandoned. It's a game that relies on its community to flourish. I signed the petition but I'll be honest, my hopes aren't high.
 

Joe T.

Member
The point is that if you want to be effective, you need to put the work in same as in the old days. The main difference is that you can still make some, slower, progress without resorting to fighting the toughest mobs the game has to offer. I fail to see how this is a bad thing.

We may be conflating issues at this point. I share your view about CPing, my comment was in regard to trusts making it much easier for people to hit the 2100 JP cap without much effort. Fast or slow doesn't matter to someone that is sleeping or is at work because any gain is better than no gain.

I love trusts, I probably abused them as much as anyone, but the benefits they provided came at a high cost to the social nature of the game. That's great for some people, terrible for others. It really depends on what you want out of your MMORPG. The old school players and the newer players have very different views on what they want from an MMORPG, I think most of us can probably agree on that.
 

Silvawuff

Member
I played this game religiously on Unicorn (before it became absorbed into Fenrir) for many years during the 75 era and quit right before Abyssea. I ran a huge Dynamis LS that sold currency for profits and split them fairly between all of its members. We had every zone on full clear. We gave away millions of gil to deserving people. It was really fun, and I'll never forget my many adventures. I tried going back briefly to revisit the game right before the cap raise, then went to Full Moon Fountain and made my last log off. I still reminisce about this game, and I would rather keep it in that faint echo of nostalgia. I had many adventures and made many friends, some of which I still talk to, to this day. I don't need to go back. My adventure there is over. That place doesn't exist anymore, and it's time to adventure in other lands.

That doesn't mean this idea doesn't have merit, but the game you want to play was a time and place, and the people you played it with.
 

Joe T.

Member
That doesn't mean this idea doesn't have merit, but the game you want to play was a time and place, and the people you played it with.

That's true if there's no attempt to market the game outside of its existing player base. If you had a newborn child when FFXI first released in Japan they'd be heading to college soon. There's a decent-sized segment of today's gaming market that never had an opportunity to play the game during its 75 cap era and while that sales pitch would be difficult without at least some minor improvements, I'd be curious to see just how successful it could be.
 

Ailike

Member
I don't need to go back. My adventure there is over. That place doesn't exist anymore, and it's time to adventure in other lands.

That doesn't mean this idea doesn't have merit, but the game you want to play was a time and place, and the people you played it with.
This is my feeling as well. Sure, a 75 server sounds interesting, but it wouldn't be the same and I know it wouldn't be the same. The feelings I have about the game are deep and immeasurable. I spent a decade sunk within it. My wife and I bonded through it. But they discovery, wonder, friendships, and dare I say... frustrations, well, they can't be revisited in anything more than my memories.

Every once in a while I flirt with reinstalling (I left during the end of WoG), but I know that it won't be the same. I'll be sitting in an empty Jeuno, my friends all gone, clueless as to what to do. While a 75 server might alleviate that aimlessness, it still won't have the same magic.

PS: Memoro de la Stono - The Thread
 
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Gromph

This tag is currently undergoing scheduled maintenance...
Staff Member
I know vel wants to go to Asura at some point but i prefer lower population server. It took me about a week to finish ochain, it would’ve taken me a little bit longer to finish it. Sylph averages 550 during JP hours, NA hours its anout 280.

If you don’t have any friends on Asura come join us on Sylph, we could use some help from a Master!

OP might get his wish if they release the game on mobile. They have an event coming up I believe in December.

My playtime is really erratic lol. I do live in JP i just don't play in Odin for the commodity of be able to talk in English sometimes.

All my friends were in Ragnarok at 2000. Last time i reactivated (like a year ago) there almost no one playing in Sylph and mostly be able to compete with my schedule.

I dont have any friends playing anymore.
 

OmegaFFXI

Neo Member
There's a decent-sized segment of today's gaming market that never had an opportunity to play the game during its 75 cap era
I'm glad you brought this up - I've always been surprised by how many people I meet on classic servers that are playing the game for the first time. It allows people who maybe have eyed the game before and were interested in it, but felt like they'd be too far behind everyone, to have their chance at experiencing that version of the game. Just a few days ago a new Ultima Online server opened up called Outlands. It's not a classic server exactly, but has a lot of the older mechanics with a lot of new content. I've seen a lot of people in the Discord, Reddit and in-game saying they've never played UO before and were asking questions and for help. Ultima Online launched in 1997. It's 21 years old! The graphics and controls are ancient and hard to grasp (like FFXI). But there they are, the server breaking 1K players online already. A server that has gotten no press and marketing.

I see the same thing on the main FFXI private server. People playing FFXI for the first time! I really hate that that awful place has to be their first experience and impression of that era, though.
 

Clear

Member
We may be conflating issues at this point. I share your view about CPing, my comment was in regard to trusts making it much easier for people to hit the 2100 JP cap without much effort. Fast or slow doesn't matter to someone that is sleeping or is at work because any gain is better than no gain.

I love trusts, I probably abused them as much as anyone, but the benefits they provided came at a high cost to the social nature of the game. That's great for some people, terrible for others. It really depends on what you want out of your MMORPG. The old school players and the newer players have very different views on what they want from an MMORPG, I think most of us can probably agree on that.

I don't disagree (although I still think you are short-selling the amount of time/effort mastering a job to 2100jp is for most players), but you have to admit that the current population level of the game would struggle to support the old-school of forced cooperation to achieve anything more than the most trivial of tasks.

Right now, there's Asura and then every other server in terms of activity for NA/EU players. And although this might at first glance suggest that Asura is the best place to play, I'm really not sure that's the case at all. In terms of end-game achievement, smaller servers like ours (Ragnarok) punch way over our weight. Congestion and competition isn't really an issue for us, which is obviously THE big downside for more popular servers.

Its become kind of a problem in that so much of the remaining web-chat on the game fixates on Asura that its further depleted the playerbase on the smaller servers, turning it into a vicious cycle where fewer people stay around on them to build up the populations when the grass is apparently greener elsewhere.
 

Joe T.

Member
I don't disagree (although I still think you are short-selling the amount of time/effort mastering a job to 2100jp is for most players), but you have to admit that the current population level of the game would struggle to support the old-school of forced cooperation to achieve anything more than the most trivial of tasks.

Right now, there's Asura and then every other server in terms of activity for NA/EU players. And although this might at first glance suggest that Asura is the best place to play, I'm really not sure that's the case at all. In terms of end-game achievement, smaller servers like ours (Ragnarok) punch way over our weight. Congestion and competition isn't really an issue for us, which is obviously THE big downside for more popular servers.

Its become kind of a problem in that so much of the remaining web-chat on the game fixates on Asura that its further depleted the playerbase on the smaller servers, turning it into a vicious cycle where fewer people stay around on them to build up the populations when the grass is apparently greener elsewhere.

If all sixteen remaining servers were merged together there would be in the vicinity of 6-7,500 accounts online during prime North American hours. That's close enough to FFXI's most active period over a decade ago.

I loathed the idea of paying SE to move to a more populated server, but I bounced from Cerberus years ago because there were only 300-400 online accounts on most nights and no amount of personal success within my own group of friends/linkshell made that acceptable. Some stayed, some came with me to Asura, others moved over months later. I never regretted it for a second, it was a night and day difference. I still have friends on Cerberus that I talk with over POL/Friend's List whenever I hop in to play.

I've taken part in discussions about this population issue so many times on FFXIAH and the official forums, it seems impossible to win over those that share your point of view without giving them first-hand exposure to the server, I know because I was one of those people. That's actually what won me over when I was still on Cerberus, had created a new character on Asura for $1 to see if all the praise was merited or if it was over-hyped.
 

Clear

Member
I
If all sixteen remaining servers were merged together there would be in the vicinity of 6-7,500 accounts online during prime North American hours. That's close enough to FFXI's most active period over a decade ago.

Hard pass on that thanks. I don't like dealing with queues for ambu, omen, etc.

You cant recreate the experience of the game's most active period anymore because the player-base skews hard towards veteran players, which in turn skews what content is the most popular and contested. We're never going back to the days of busy starter zones because it would require a huge influx of new players, which let's face it, isn't going to happen to such an old game.
 

OmegaFFXI

Neo Member
Hard pass on that thanks. I don't like dealing with queues for ambu, omen, etc. You cant recreate the experience of the game's most active period anymore because the player-base skews hard towards veteran players, which in turn skews what content is the most popular and contested. We're never going back to the days of busy starter zones because it would require a huge influx of new players, which let's face it, isn't going to happen to such an old game.

Definitely not going to happen on retail. But I've seen countless new servers open for various MMOs and all the starter zones are full of people.

And there's been plenty of times when there was 0 queue on Asura for Ambuscade (it's worst right after a reset, I mean you have a whole month to get what you want from it...) and I can absolutely say there's never been an Omen queue.
 
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