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Phil Spencer admits that developing for two different specs is more work for devs.

DonMigs85

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well, it's probably easier now than in the PS2 gen since those were 3 wildly different architectures. PS3 and Xbox 360 were also quite different. If Series S sells well just target that as the base and scale up from there.
 

Kagey K

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Phil Spencer, Ladies and Gentlemen.

Good to know everyone got to know this when *squints* the series X and series S launch in a little over a month. I still think the Series S is a mistake and they should've focused 100% on the Series X. At best they should've launched a Series X that was digital only.
Hindsight Is 20/20 so 5 years from now you will either look very smart or very stupid, the time in between is what’s going to be interesting.

One thing you can’t say is that he wasn’t willing to take a chance.
 
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DrScissorsMD

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Some suspects are hiding from this thread. :messenger_grinning_squinting:

I mean they went hiding when devs started to talk but now that the idol has spoken... there is not much recourse other than to hide.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone flipping out over "it can't be that easy to optimise !?!?" were the PS people before we knew they were also cross-gen, no? But I digress, perhaps they're hiding, perhaps they're avoiding another "Hey PS friends, new PS feature takes pictures of your dick so you and PS friends can suck each others dicks virtually. Cool feature? Poll inside!" thread number #666816 you've made in the last week or so.

Just a guess.
 

Reallink

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well, it's probably easier now than in the PS2 gen since those were 3 wildly different architectures. PS3 and Xbox 360 were also quite different. If Series S sells well just target that as the base and scale up from there.
Doesn't have to sell well, that's what devs are going to do regardless. It's what they're already doing and why there are no games that demonstrate why you should drop $500 on MS's box. Series X is nothing but a 4K upconverter of Series S, that's all it ever was and will ever be.
 
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Md Ray

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I might also add, Switch developers also have to do this already...

they have to develop for a 393Gflops profile and for a 236Gflop profile (there are multiple mobile profiles below this that developers can choose in order to save battery life if the game runs well at lower speeds, but you get the idea)
On Switch, it's just different clock speeds, same hardware. That's not the same for Xbox Series. You have GPUs with two vastly different configs (20 CUs vs 52 CUs), over 2x less memory bandwidth for GPU, 6x less for the CPU, massively reduced available memory for games, apps, OS.
 

Panajev2001a

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Cool, so you don’t know what backtracking means or you don’t understand what’s being discussed. Great contribution 👍

Given that the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X both exist, the amount of the work to support to different console specs should be a known quantity at this point. I’m not even sure I’d consider this thread worthy, to be honest.
Yeah, if you think those two consoles were pushed as far as they could go I have a bridge to sell you. Those two consoles do not prove the point you think you are proving ;).
 

Kagey K

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Comparisons won't tell if it was a mistake. Sales numbers will. And the console is super attractive.
I really hope you don’t believe that launch numbers where they are are all sold out (except Finland and Slovakia for Xbox and Brazil for PS5) are going to tell the story of the generation.

Unless you assume the games announced now are the only games ever coming to your console.
 
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All this time people have been acting like all devs needed to do was flip a magic switch or something, guess this proves that wrong.
All this time people have been acting like all PC devs developers don't have the same issue's. Also, PC developers have to allow their games work on 2 completely different CPU and GPU providers be that Intel or AMD for CPU's or AMD and Nvidia for GPU's. So why it's more work, it's only what all PC developers have done for decades. At least on the Series X and S the CPU's and GPU are from the same family
 
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Kerotan

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We really didn't need Phil to tell us this. But it should be less work than developing for 2 consoles from different ecosystems.
But their games are being made for current gen, next gen (both consoles) and PC. That's going to take it's toll on the quality of the games.

Now that Phil has admitted what we already knew his fanboys can stop acting like it wasn't a problem introducing a weak next gen console.
 
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ZehDon

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Yeah, if you think those two consoles were pushed as far as they could go I have a bridge to sell you. Those two consoles do not prove the point you think you are proving ;).
The two extra consoles prove the point that two extra consoles exist, which is the point of the post you quoted. Clearly you didn't understand my post, my point, and - given your bafflingly disconnected "point" - the thread your posting in. Might I suggest taking some time to understand something before you decide its wrong - saves us all a lot of time.
 
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Saaleh

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More interesting is Phil saying he’s not going to PR his way out of the question. Refreshing!
I'm used to this, usually that's what he does when he can't continue his PR nonesense. He clearly lied about this topic since the introduction of the series S. ( Just like how Sony lied about next gen transition.)

There is no way anyone can spin it. Microsoft is faar worst than sony when it comes to wow factor and next gen. At least we know sony will move on from the ps4 after a year but with series s and game pass vision it is scary and unimpressive what ms is trying to do in the long run. Not only they are limiteing the quality of their ''exclusives'', they are now limiting next gen and the multiplatform games just to gain game pass subscriptions
 
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EventHorizon

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Of course its more work. But not anything developers are not accustomed to on the pc.
Not true. PCs get by with brute force. Games aren't optimized for every possible hardware combination. They are developed for higher level abstractions and take a performance hit for doing so. Consoles on the other hand are developed closer to the metal and are optimized for each specific console SKU. If Xbox games become optimized like PC games due to the larger number of configurations (Orig XB1, XB1 S, XB1 X, Series S, Series X), it's performance will suffer.

On top of that, there are rumors that the Xbox API has changed in order to be more generic and support more platforms, but that's made more work for devs, at least in the short run. Xbox code could be potentially less optimized due to all of this.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone flipping out over "it can't be that easy to optimise !?!?" were the PS people before we knew they were also cross-gen, no? But I digress, perhaps they're hiding, perhaps they're avoiding another "Hey PS friends, new PS feature takes pictures of your dick so you and PS friends can suck each others dicks virtually. Cool feature? Poll inside!" thread number #666816 you've made in the last week or so.

Just a guess.
Maybe you need to take the word dick out of your mouth before you choke on it?

Just a guess.
 
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DrScissorsMD

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Maybe you need to take the word dick out of your mouth before you choke on it?

Just a guess.
Unable to defend your frivolous point of view and imitation, classic D'Ghost. Too cute.

Ignore buttons to the left if you can't handle it champ. ;)
 

GymWolf

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I like how some supposedly experts in here were saying the opposite.
 
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Unable to defend your frivolous point of view and imitation, classic D'Ghost. Too cute.

Ignore buttons to the left if you can't handle it champ. ;)
Lmao... I'm not the one salty stalking around my posts like a wounded puppy cause I hurt your feelings by saying things you don't like about your favorite plastic box.

Like I said, careful handling dicks, you may end up choking on one.

There is no point to defend. It's self-evident.
 
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Panajev2001a

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The two extra consoles prove the point that two extra consoles exist, which is the point of the post you quoted. Clearly you didn't understand my post, my point, and - given your bafflingly disconnected "point" - the thread your posting in. Might I suggest taking some time to understand something before you decide its wrong - saves us all a lot of time.
The amount of work supporting multiple specs and the tendency to work upwards catering to the minimum common denominator first and then “upscaling”/tweaking settings is THE point and why people bring up the extra work required (and if the above does not happen the lower spec HW is shafted as result more often than not).
 

Panajev2001a

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An Xbox thread on NeoGAF:

Codename: Classified Codename: Classified
P Panajev2001a
FeiRR FeiRR
GHG GHG
FranXico FranXico

Just like clockwork. Just a few more and my collection will be complete. Gotta catch 'em all!
You see me in the Xbox pre-order thread too ;). Anyways, you know this is a public forum and not your private Xbox treehouse right?

Interesting to see that the strategy is aligned and well re-used: incoming point —> side-step/dodge —> attack.
 

cireza

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my little console warrior friend
WTF ? Why the aggressive answer ?

I actually believe Series S will sell very well in the long term. I don't see how this makes me a console warrior or whatever ?

I also believe that players won't notice, for the most part, any difference between Series S and X. Especially on a 1080p TV. That's why comparisons can be bad, in the end, comparisons are videos watched by enthusiasts on the internet. People will primarily look at the difference in price on amazon, ebay or in shops, not at video comparisons.
 
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You see me in the Xbox pre-order thread too ;). Anyways, you know this is a public forum and not your private Xbox treehouse right?

Interesting to see that the strategy is aligned and well re-used: incoming point —> side-step/dodge —> attack.
I think you meant the Xbox discord... but otherwise on point.
 

Arun1910

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Hopefully this was obvious to everyone. It isn't like PC where the user scales everything for their system. The devs have to go in and do it + tweak stuff at a more granular level.
 
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The Shift

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You see me in the Xbox pre-order thread too ;). Anyways, you know this is a public forum and not your private Xbox treehouse right?

Interesting to see that the strategy is aligned and well re-used: incoming point —> side-step/dodge —> attack.
Are you larping on a GAF?

C'mon man!

Congrats on your SX pre order - I'm not getting an Xbox Series X or Playstation 5 but am big time into GamePass - maybe we can hang out some time on xbox live and shoot the cross platform breeze?
 

Geki-D

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Phil clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. When I pointed this out back in June (because it was fucking obvious), I was set straight by the foremost experts in the gaming industry; GAF posters, that all devs would have to do is tick the "ELLE-OH-ELLE JUST LOWER SHIT LIKE ON PC" box in their dev tools and the games would come out magically adapted for best results for 2 different SKUs. No effort at all.
 

FeiRR

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You see me in the Xbox pre-order thread too ;). Anyways, you know this is a public forum and not your private Xbox treehouse right?

Interesting to see that the strategy is aligned and well re-used: incoming point —> side-step/dodge —> attack.
Isn't that what enemies do in Halo games? Passes for AI in some circles, in others not so much.
 
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FranXico

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Phil clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. When I pointed this out back in June (because it was fucking obvious), I was set straight by the foremost experts in the gaming industry; GAF posters, that all devs would have to do is tick the "ELLE-OH-ELLE JUST LOWER SHIT LIKE ON PC" box in their dev tools and the games would come out magically adapted for best results for 2 different SKUs. No effort at all.
Basic QA is still necessary. It would never literally be zero effort. I also don't think development is massively impacted either.
 

Allandor

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All this time people have been acting like all devs needed to do was flip a magic switch or something, guess this proves that wrong.
Nobody said it is not more work. But it is not much more work, because most things that are needed (like assets in lower quality) must also be created for the big consoles (e.g. loading lower quality models in the distant, ...).
But for the developer it is not much more work. For the QS it is more work, because they must test another version. But QS in current times .... well let's just say, it seems that QS is not really done with the end-product on every console-system.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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The Shift

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I think it's a risky plan - in a vacuum both the SS and SX are good hardware, present good options but they kind of cancel each other out. The buyer needs to complete a checkbox of specs before the decide to purchase either console. I might like that but I can't see the general public warming to it unless the messaging is spot on. And Microsoft has a honking huge history of fucking a duck in regards to messaging.
 

Denton

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The amount of work added is fairly small, especially for multiplatform developers. The benefit of having very cheap nextgen offering and thus potentially getting lot more people on board much earlier should be more than enough to offset that extra work.