onemanasylum
Banned
following its acquisition by the Columbia Broadcasting System. In 1966, the company was reorganized to become CBS Records.
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Phil Spencer: "I know we have to take risks [after Scalebound cancellation],"
- Thread starter Alpha Phoenix
- Start date
following its acquisition by the Columbia Broadcasting System. In 1966, the company was reorganized to become CBS Records.
Majukun
Member
not really... the 360 had a lot of success in the first part of last gen because they were buying exclusives, meanwhile Sony was struggling because they suddenly lost all the exclusive games they didn't have to work for during the PS1 and PS2 era. they were the market leader, so all the titles naturally came on sony's consoles.
things changed when hirai substituted kutaragi at the helm of the brand... he completely restructured sony's first party production, not without its fair share of game canceling action... but he got the job done, he made Sony an efficient and diversified gaming machine... something that Microsoft has not being able to do.
@ShenmueGuru
Member
Shenmue 3 was a risk that they were offered first before Sony, and that seemingly backfired, at least from a PR standpoint regardless of what profits that series may or may not bring.
Doesn't sound like they are picking their "risks" quite well, or at least Armthorpe following through with faith.
Doesn't sound like they are picking their "risks" quite well, or at least Armthorpe following through with faith.
Papacheeks
Banned
Yup, you got us, were just all a bunch of shit posters talking about a game division many of use to love and how it's been slowly devolving into something we dont like. And yes your right talking about a game getting cancelled by a publisher who cancelled other games recently and having a studio with a big legacy go under and cancelling a game revival/sequel and disbanding a studio that people were excited for is just all of us shit posting.
We can close the thread now guys we seem to have done nothing but damage the internet with no good discussion.
We all good fam.
Having not one, but two female protagonists (with one being South African, another half-Indian) headlining a major AAA production is in the context of sexist executive decision-making and their misogynistic assumptions about audiences pretty risky compared to the eleventh iteration of military dude in green armor shooting aliens.
Thank god that someone is willing to do anything mildly new, because the constant factory line of Halos and Microsoft's inept reliance on it is completely and utterly creatively bankrupt.
Ricky Ricardo
Member
IIRC, MS wanted Ryse 2, Crytek wasn't interested in continuing their partnership.
To address your larger point, I'm not saying outrage isn't justified. But I am saying that some of it is not legitimate. I hope I'm not being obtuse here, but I'm trying to lay it out as best I can.
Again, there are people who are upset because Scalebound represented a unique project for Microsoft from a famed director and a developer with certain pedigree, so it's cancellation is, like you said, the straw that broke the camel's back. AND on top of that, it leads to pointed questions about the future of the Xbox brand with so little creative output beyond established franchises like Gears of War, Halo, or Forza Motorsports. We've had and are still having meaningful, well argued discussions about these topics.
Then we have people coming into unrelated topics, like the Sea of Thieves or Halo Wars 2 threads and making cancellation jokes, we have folk trying to reverse history and paint Don Mattrick as some sort of champion of the brand, this is the kind of stuff that demonstrates that all the hub-bub is not completely genuine.
Again, there's a lot of honest discouragement and/or concern and then, there's a lot of useless noise from people who should know better and don't care or people who just aren't clued in to the nuances responsible for the situations revolving around MS and Xbox.
PandaShake
Member
Not the best pr speak. As others have said, continuing support is the risk. Quitting and cutting your losses is risk aversion.
Chilled_Eskim01
Member
One of the only games that would have convinced me to move to Windows 10 to play, and they go and cancel it for no publicly known reason, with people saying that it was Microsoft that poisoned the water. Now we get platitudes and reassurances from Spencer saying they'll "still take risks". Yeah, ok Spencer, keep telling yourself that.
Another year, another reason not upgrade. Oh well.
Another year, another reason not upgrade. Oh well.
Probably gonna do a push for it by signing marketing deals for multiplatform games
onemanasylum
Banned
This happens in every thread on both sides, no point complaining about it.
You forgot Halo: Judgment.
Papacheeks
Banned
But that's the thing they are not driving sales currently. Halo 5 under performed, so did Gears 4 by a larger margin and I want to say Forza has slowly been shrinking now growing.
Games like Uncharted and niche games like Bloodborne have shown first party and exclusive third party can sell consoles.
Jaguar Victory
Member
If I were MS I would start a female lead game studio focusing on creating diverse games. They need to create more games for girls to bring in more gamers and expand the audience.
Damn.
It's a lot to ask the man to do better, but the cancellation is truly saddening. He turned a lot of the crazy pricing/Kinect/online disaster, but this stung. I'd really like to know what exclusives they have lined up. BC has been a god send but justifying Scorpio is getting harder and harder.
It's a lot to ask the man to do better, but the cancellation is truly saddening. He turned a lot of the crazy pricing/Kinect/online disaster, but this stung. I'd really like to know what exclusives they have lined up. BC has been a god send but justifying Scorpio is getting harder and harder.
onemanasylum
Banned
With what though? Sony has RDR2, COD, Destiny and battlefront, and mass effect marketing.
uh...Assassin's Creed? I dunno
shinobi602
Member
I like Phil overall but I feel like this continues to happen. Our very own MH Williams put up an article going over all the things announced in 2014 that have all but been axed: http://www.usgamer.net/articles/revisiting-xbox-e3-2014-remembering-the-dead
I almost forgot how much.
Every time this happens, fans start questioning him and the platform's direction, Phil gives the standard reply "we're committed to games and first party", and then you get the "Ok, phew, thanks Phil!" though that seems to be waning now.
Thing is, you need to allow your teams to branch out and take risks creatively. That's how you grow a brand and ecosystem and new fan bases. This has nothing to do with console war bs, but Sony does this and it's evident. One of their flagship studios known for first person shooters was allowed to take 5 years to build a post apocalyptic open world RPG with a female lead and robot dinosaurs. Another studio (Sony Santa Monica), even though its initial new IP failed, was allowed to radically revamp one of their biggest and most beloved franchises (God of War). Both huge risks. Sucker Punch is on a new IP. Bend is on a new IP, etc. Naughty Dog took time to develop a new IP that's arguably their biggest yet. That's how these become successful franchises.
Besides Rare, which is basically their new IP testbed though relegated to service driven games, Turn 10 works on Forza, Black Tusk was transformed into a Gears factory, 343 is relegated to Halo...it's just tired at this point. To me anyway, even though I still enjoy those series a lot. I want Xbox around forever. I was there day one with my OG Xbox and fell mad in love with Halo, but damn...give us new and exciting things man. I mean nurturing internal first party talent, not signing more deals that don't go anywhere.
I almost forgot how much.
Every time this happens, fans start questioning him and the platform's direction, Phil gives the standard reply "we're committed to games and first party", and then you get the "Ok, phew, thanks Phil!" though that seems to be waning now.
Thing is, you need to allow your teams to branch out and take risks creatively. That's how you grow a brand and ecosystem and new fan bases. This has nothing to do with console war bs, but Sony does this and it's evident. One of their flagship studios known for first person shooters was allowed to take 5 years to build a post apocalyptic open world RPG with a female lead and robot dinosaurs. Another studio (Sony Santa Monica), even though its initial new IP failed, was allowed to radically revamp one of their biggest and most beloved franchises (God of War). Both huge risks. Sucker Punch is on a new IP. Bend is on a new IP, etc. Naughty Dog took time to develop a new IP that's arguably their biggest yet. That's how these become successful franchises.
Besides Rare, which is basically their new IP testbed though relegated to service driven games, Turn 10 works on Forza, Black Tusk was transformed into a Gears factory, 343 is relegated to Halo...it's just tired at this point. To me anyway, even though I still enjoy those series a lot. I want Xbox around forever. I was there day one with my OG Xbox and fell mad in love with Halo, but damn...give us new and exciting things man. I mean nurturing internal first party talent, not signing more deals that don't go anywhere.
I agree games like Uncharted drive console sales. But as some have said earlier, those kind of games take time. Time that MS isn't really willing to put in when their studios can continue to pump out Halo clones and Forza in short order.
Ms is not like Sony, and never will be. They are more of a multiplayer kind of company looking for the next big thing.
Ms is not like Sony, and never will be. They are more of a multiplayer kind of company looking for the next big thing.
It was 3 years of development that wasn't where it needed to be. Spending more money on a game that hadn't shown well publicly and sounds like it was in development hell seems like a bad business decision.
Ricky Ricardo
Member
I'm not complaining, I'm addressing the notion that those complaining are simply upset for obvious reasons. The "both sides" redirect is meaningless because, depending on what is popular, some side always receives more scrutiny. It was true when the Xbox 360 was the GAF darling, and its true now.
After spending all the time I have on N4G and this forum, it's not like I expect any better.
I'm just here to lend my voice to a more deliberate discussion, while pointing out some discrepancies.
Yeah no idea guys, honestly. Possibly some unannounced AAA titles still for fall, like uhhh, maybe Shadows of Mordor 2 or something?
Those titles you mentioned though are pretty damning
Papacheeks
Banned
Then complain to a mod, the rest of us having civil good discussion will continue on in this thread. If those people's comments really are being disruptive then put them on ignore and tell a mod. Usually that gets dealt with.
I mean there are people in here saying what your talking about, but they are being ignored at least I'm ignoring them.
onemanasylum
Banned
Great post, and I'd like to add, Sony understands sometimes i takes time to build a franchise, UC1 did what at launch? Pretty low sales, look at it now, they stuck with it because they believed in ND and the franchise. Would MS? Doubtful.
OfficerRaichu15
Member
If Phil put a team on Viva Piñata 3 I would forgive him immensely.
Please Phil people want that game it's addictive as hell.
Please Phil people want that game it's addictive as hell.
PandaShake
Member
I'm not debating the decision, but the contextual use of the word risk. Like the last guardian, continuing for so long is a risky decision.
But that's the point. When hard times hit, Sony lost almost all 3rd party exclusives, but they still had their IPs, relationships and Studios created and bought from the PS1/2 era to fall back: Warhawk, Naughty Dog, Gran Turismo, Sucker Punch, Wipeout, Guerrilla, Evolution, etc. (and almost all bought studios created a new IP on the PS3: Uncharted, Infamous, Motorstorm)
That's what MS should have invested at the height of the success of the 360.
Dash_Riprock
Member
The biggest problem is that gaming is no where near as important to MS as it is to Sony. MS could (and has) loose billions on the Xbox brand, maybe even can it altogether, and it could be a drop in the bucket compared to their other divisions. Meanwhile the PS brand is the only part of Sony thats doing well, and has been for some time.
From my experience, there's little difference between businessmen that have worked in the industry for decades and ones that haven't. There is no super art friendly corporation. There are good and bad producers but that's it, really... And everyone has good and bad producers. No company is different from the other. This sentiment is really silly.
onemanasylum
Banned
Man, this is flat false, Sony has been doing well in its other divisions for a few years now. Playstation is not even their most profitable.
R3TRODYCE
Member
Then you'll fall for another trap.
You'll like the game but it'll never get a sequel.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol this is Phil's specialty. say all the right things to get the fanboys on his side and forget about all the shitty things he's done. 'Looks guys, i totally know what you guys are saying! i am just like you, please believe me. please believe me.'
I shat on this guy just last month in the X1 4k ads thread and a lot of folks got butthurt by my frank choice of words. But he's proved that he's deserving of it. there is one thing to cancel the game and then another to pretend that he wants to take risks and fund risky and innovate projects. no you dont. you just want to buy exclusives just to keep them off the PS4. you did that with titanfall and nearly killed the franchise in the process. you did it with tomb raider and again nearly killed the franchise. he's cancelled games he advertised at multiple trade shows keeping everyone unhappy with their X1 thinking the good times are just a few years away. he forced black tusk to cancel their new IP after unveiling it and made them make another gears of war game.
Don Mattrick was a douche but at least he never pretended that he wasnt. Phill is worse because he wants to be authentic and make fanboys think that he really gets them, but he doesnt get shit. he cuts and run anytime a game doesnt perform or get good critical reception. Sunset was a fantastic game but he let insomniac go away and now they are making marvel. Ryse was pretty terrible but it was to be expected given how it was a Kinect only title for nearly half of its development. he didnt give it a extra year and shipped a shell of a game. then instead of fixing the issues and creating a franchise, he didnt fund a sequel and now they are going out of business.
Imagine if Sony had seen the first months NA sales of Uncharted (111k) and Ratchet PS3 (79k) and said nah, we dont see any potential here. lets make more jak and daxter!
I shat on this guy just last month in the X1 4k ads thread and a lot of folks got butthurt by my frank choice of words. But he's proved that he's deserving of it. there is one thing to cancel the game and then another to pretend that he wants to take risks and fund risky and innovate projects. no you dont. you just want to buy exclusives just to keep them off the PS4. you did that with titanfall and nearly killed the franchise in the process. you did it with tomb raider and again nearly killed the franchise. he's cancelled games he advertised at multiple trade shows keeping everyone unhappy with their X1 thinking the good times are just a few years away. he forced black tusk to cancel their new IP after unveiling it and made them make another gears of war game.
Don Mattrick was a douche but at least he never pretended that he wasnt. Phill is worse because he wants to be authentic and make fanboys think that he really gets them, but he doesnt get shit. he cuts and run anytime a game doesnt perform or get good critical reception. Sunset was a fantastic game but he let insomniac go away and now they are making marvel. Ryse was pretty terrible but it was to be expected given how it was a Kinect only title for nearly half of its development. he didnt give it a extra year and shipped a shell of a game. then instead of fixing the issues and creating a franchise, he didnt fund a sequel and now they are going out of business.
Imagine if Sony had seen the first months NA sales of Uncharted (111k) and Ratchet PS3 (79k) and said nah, we dont see any potential here. lets make more jak and daxter!
onemanasylum
Banned
Totally false, one companies culture can be drastically different then the other, I have worked at them, and it's night and day, saying they are all the same is silly.
That is the big difference. MS tries to "buy" a new IP through exclusive deals like those signed with Platinum, Insomniac, etc... Their own internal studios are not allowed to do anything else but Halo, Gears, and Forza for the most part. Now, Rare was given the opportunity to do something different, but they are the exception.
I truly hope it pays off for Rare...
I truly hope it pays off for Rare...
I have too and it really depends on the people you work with within them.
onemanasylum
Banned
Exactly, companies are NOT all the same, far from it.
plasmawave
Banned
i thought the risk part was whether the game sells or not.
That's not really a problem?
I'm bummed we never will get Sunset Overdrive 2. But in light of all this other news about Microsoft, I'm actually just incredibly happy and thankful that we got the first Sunset Overdrive in the form that we did.
Plus, I know I have always known it was a fool's game to expect Platinum to actually get a chance to make a sequel to any of their games.
Moon Presence
Member
They don't have Destiny 2, CoD and RDR2. They're pretty much screwed in that regard.
TheUnsunghero26
Member
How much do you think it has to do with pressure from higher-ups at MS?
