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Phil Spencer "Played my first games on early Scorpio unit."

Theorry

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Dec 4, 2014
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The dev kits might not be final spec though and will be updated as time goes on. PS4 devs didn't know the PS4 would have 8GB RAM until they announced it, last minute, so nothing is 100% final this early.
Ah oke. Yeah that is what i wanted to know.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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People going to be upset if Xbox one holding Scorpio back.
I think it's going to end up being more of an issue of ambitious later (third party) titles being clearly targeted to Scorpio specs as the preferred version while running noticeably worse on standard Xbox units. It would satisfy the requirement that everything (outside of VR titles) being playable on all Xbox Ones.
 

Interfectum

Member
Nov 14, 2008
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But will Sony do a reset with new HW, no backward compatibility etc or go with the MS route?
If I had to guess, PS5 will have brand new games with no forward compatibility (ie, PS5 games will not run on PS4). BC will depend on how different they get with the hardware.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
59,901
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I don't think the model will work for consoles... I think a Playstation 5 that features brand new games (that can't be played on PS4/PS4 Pro) will have a much greater impact than a PS4 Pro Pro.

IMO, the console market needs these massive resets every once in a while. The only thing I'd like to see become standard is, even with the reset, the new consoles can play the older games day one.
I'm not sure the tech moves on quickly enough to have a massive jump in the next 3 years. And even if Ps5 is 10x faster then PS pro (it won't be), publishers will still want cross gen games because that worked well on PS3-PS4 transition. It saves costs, reduces risk when you reset the addressable market, and engines will be scalable enough to support it

Maybe you'll get PS5 boxed games that don't work on PS4, but if so I'll bet you still get cross gen for 2-3 years simply due to publisher business needs.
 

RowdyReverb

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Mar 27, 2014
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...
Also, the posters saying MS is done with "generations" just reads like attempts to jazz up every strategy Phil or some other exec talks about. The market, dev community, tech innovations, etc... usually dictate when a new generation is required. It's something MS can just decide as if they own a monopoly on the gaming market. Something that can be accomplished with AI, a new graphical benchmark, VR, whatever, new hardware should be here for the foreseeable future. And it's perfectly fine to use the word generations when more powerful hardware, especially ones that usher in new tech innovations releases.
I mean, if every future Xbox retains this goal of forward/backward compatibility, you could look at each hardware revision as an extension of the Xbox One since it was the first. We'll get an Xbox One Pro this year, an Xbox One Pro Pro in 3 years, and a Pro Pro Pro in 6 years.
At what point does it stop making sense to refer to their new hardware as merely upgraded Xbox Ones? Why continue to insist that they are still following a generational approach when they are clearly moving away from that?
 

Dark Cloud

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Feb 2, 2016
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They specifically said 'nobody gets left behind' in the reveal video, so... yeah :p

But, I mean, people are going to get left behind sooner or later. There's no glorious post-generation future where every game works on every console. Backwards compatibility is one thing, but forwards-compatibility? The hottest AAA games of 2030 aren't going to be playable on a 17 year old Xbox One. At best you might get a console that has the best version of games for its generation, and then the worst versions of games for the next.
Wow, so Phil is a liar if I can't play COD: Space Dimensions Alien Warfare 2030 on my Xbox One in 2030. 😝
 

ethomaz

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Mar 19, 2013
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But will Sony do a reset with new HW, no backward compatibility etc or go with the MS route?
Reset with new hardware... now backward compatibility is something you choose to add and I'm not sure if Sony will do that.

MS will have a reset with new hardware and I do believe they will add backward compatibility over the console lifetime.

The main point is that new games will only run in these new hardware.
 

Omnistalgic

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Mar 20, 2012
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People going to be upset if Xbox one holding Scorpio back.
this doesn't make any sense, the point of the console is to play what the devs are already making for X1/PS4 better. How would it get held back by it's own games?

PC versions of these games are already higher in resolutions/effects/frame-rates than what we get on PS4/X1. Those versions will now be released on Pro/Scorpio.

??

Am I missing something?
 

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Jun 7, 2004
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All consoles now are x86 PCs and the architecture will remain the same, that's why Sony was able to quickly iterate on the PS4 and make a beefier version of it.

Scorpio is a next-gen machine with the added benefit that all your old games will still be compatible. From this point on, similar to PCs, you'll not lose your library when you buy a next-gen system. I guess since NeoGAF is confsued, Microsoft will need to do a little work to make it clear to everyone that Scorpio isn't just a half-assed upgrade (which the PS4 Pro kinda is...), but a full blown next-gen machine that's just backwards-compatible to your current library.
Oh.shit.

Hype restored. Looking forward to seeing what you guys got cooking
 

Hoo-doo

Member
Sep 29, 2011
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Doubt MS can nail all this, but if they can they'll be alright. At this point the ball in completely in Ms's court. They have a huge warchest compared to Sony and it's all about dedicating the resources and making the best choices for the Xbox platform if they want Scorpio to succeed.
Why do you think this?

With the Xbox division getting more and more of the ol' stinkeye from Microsoft as a whole, do you genuinely think they get a blank check to throw millions at yet another timed exclusive? Somehow I doubt it. I think they are more budget restrained than ever.
 
Jun 2, 2013
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If I had to guess, PS5 will have brand new games with no forward compatibility (ie, PS5 games will not run on PS4). BC will depend on how different they get with the hardware.
With how successful PS4 has been without BC, it's probably not high on the list of PS5 features, expect more remastered games instead but you never know, maybe they will surprise us.
 

opricnik

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Oct 25, 2016
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I'm not sure the tech moves on quickly enough to have a massive jump in the next 3 years. And even if Ps5 is 10x faster then PS pro (it won't be), publishers will still want cross gen games because that worked well on PS3-PS4 transition. It saves costs, reduces risk when you reset the addressable market, and engines will be scalable enough to support it

Maybe you'll get PS5 boxed games that don't work on PS4, but if so I'll bet you still get cross gen for 2-3 years simply due to publisher business needs.
I would be more then okay if they just dropped PS4 and made Pro/PS5 games for while then goes on.
 

opricnik

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Oct 25, 2016
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Xbox one isn't going hold Scorpio back the same way Xbox one did not hold Gears 4 on ultra on PC.
Adding a few effects to differ from LOW and Ultra is not remotely even same thing with making a game based on higher tech. More then so graphics obviously , CPU, gameplay etc everything changes based on limiter tech.
 

Omnistalgic

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Mar 20, 2012
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I mean, if every future Xbox retains this goal of forward/backward compatibility, you could look at each hardware revision as an extension of the Xbox One since it was the first. We'll get an Xbox One Pro this year, an Xbox One Pro Pro in 3 years, and a Pro Pro Pro in 6 years.
At what point does it stop making sense to refer to their new hardware as merely upgraded Xbox Ones? Why continue to insist that they are still following a generational approach when they are clearly moving away from that?
because they aren't clearly moving away from it until the successor to Scorpio comes out and you can still play those games on your X1.

b/c is not the same a f/c...and until i see f/c implemented on all Xbox units going forward, I'm going to call this speculation. Phil said he wanted to bring the benefits of PC to consoles, he didn't specifically say all Xbox consoles going forward are going to be able to play all games forever.

Xbox "Pro Pro" is a new gen because those games are going to be too complex or base X1. It's still going to be a point where you HAVE to upgrade, I don't see how that's changing unless MS have figured out something ground breaking with technology.
 

BigPapi

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Jun 14, 2016
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I think they will support the Xbox one right up to the Scorpio successor by then people will either buy the successor or the Scorpio either way it will allow the person to upgrade every 4 years or 8 years or any time in between.
 

Dark Cloud

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Feb 2, 2016
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Doubt MS can nail all this, but if they can they'll be alright. At this point the ball is completely in MS' court. They have a huge warchest compared to Sony.
I'm not trying to turn this into "who has more IPs", but I don't think MS has more than Sony and if they do they don't show it. MS needs some variety in their games.
 

infinit777

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Aug 7, 2013
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I don't know what Phil's objective with this kind of tweet is?

Certainly not to sell more Xbox One's. To discourage people from buying a PS4 / Switch / PC? To hype up an existing Xbox fan base? Or is it just trolling for retweets?
just to update people on the current status of scorpio and maybe get a little bit of hype spewing.
 
Why do you think this?

With the Xbox division getting more and more of the ol' stinkeye from Microsoft as a whole, do you genuinely think they get a blank check to throw millions at yet another timed exclusive? Somehow I doubt it. I think they are more budget restrained than ever.
Oh I agree entirely. Not debating that point at all, but MS does have the funds to put all of its power and might to bear on the Xbox brand. Not just financially but they have some of the best software engineers, and can get the best hardware people to make Xbox truly special. It's all up to MS if they want to do this which I, like you, doubt as well.

Something tells me that this is make or break for Xbox with Scorpio. The man in the cloud Satya Nadella Will snip it quick if it fails.


I'm not trying to turn this into "who has more IPs", but I don't think MS has more than Sony and if they do they don't show it. MS needs some variety in their games.
Yes please don't. And you completely misunderstood my post. When I said warchest I meant funds, capital to support the Xbox brand. MS is a financially more capable company than Sony. That is what I meant. Nothing about IPs etc.
 

otakukidd

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Nov 4, 2013
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But will Sony do a reset with new HW, no backward compatibility etc or go with the MS route?
They would do new hardware with backwards capabilities. Not having Backwards compatibility is like Microsofts plans in 2013. You can't do that when your opponent isn't. You will be destroyed trying to do it. The only reason this gen didn't have it cause both didn't have enough it at launch. By the time Microsoft finally rolled out it was too late.
 

Crayon

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Jan 6, 2007
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With how successful PS4 has been without BC, it's probably not high on the list of PS5 features, expect more remastered games instead but you never know, maybe they will surprise us.
I expect ps5 to be bc. There is no reason not to have it.
 

Theorry

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Dec 4, 2014
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I think they will support the Xbox one right up to the Scorpio successor by then people will either buy the successor or the Scorpio either way it will allow the person to upgrade every 4 years or 8 years or any time in between.
That seems the most logical. Its the best of both worlds imo. People that want to upgrade sooner can do that. People that dont want to just wait when Scorpio is 200 bucks. And the other people buy the new Scorpio.
 

MilkyJoe

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Jan 29, 2014
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this doesn't make any sense, the point of the console is to play what the devs are already making for X1/PS4 better. How would it get held back by it's own games?

PC versions of these games are already higher in resolutions/effects/frame-rates than what we get on PS4/X1. Those versions will now be released on Pro/Scorpio.

??

Am I missing something?
That's about the skinny of it.
 
Jun 15, 2013
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I expect ps5 to be bc. There is no reason not to have it.
Ports of the best titles from the previous generation have proved an excellent money maker and a relatively simple way to fill out the lean months post launch. I'd say that's a pretty tempting reason for Sony.
 

8bitghost

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Oct 5, 2014
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I guess since NeoGAF is confsued, Microsoft will need to do a little work to make it clear to everyone that Scorpio isn't just a half-assed upgrade (which the PS4 Pro kinda is...), but a full blown next-gen machine that's just backwards-compatible to your current library.
In what way is the Pro half-assed?
It's obvious that Sony and Microsoft are perusing different game plans. Andrew House said so when he remarked "they have their strategy, and we have ours." PS4 Pro has just enough power to take advantage of a 4K television set; everything else is an afterthought. On the other hand, Scorpio is what a next generation console would look like if we were starting afresh in 2017. Listen to the man above. Scorpio is "full blown next-gen". It also has support for features that are missing from the Xbox One (e.g. VR).

How long before Thomas Mahler is chastised or cautioned by team Xbox for using the term "next gen"? lol
 

Burdmayn

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Mar 17, 2016
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That seems the most logical. Its the best of both worlds imo. People that want to upgrade sooner can do that. People that dont want to just wait when Scorpio is 200 bucks. And the other people buy the new Scorpio.
Agreed! This is the clear advantage of the incremental model. Not every consumer needs to or is expected to upgrade as soon as possible. At some point, the Xbox One S will likely lose support but I'll be amazed if that happens before the Scorpio 2.
 

JaggedSac

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Jan 14, 2010
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It's obvious that Sony and Microsoft are perusing different game plans. Andrew House said so when he remarked "they have their strategy, and we have ours." PS4 Pro has just enough power to take advantage of a 4K television set; everything else is an afterthought. On the other hand, Scorpio is what a next generation console would look like if we were starting afresh in 2017. Listen to the man above. Scorpio is "full blown next-gen". It also has support for features that are missing from the Xbox One (e.g. VR).

How long before Thomas Mahler is chastised or cautioned by team Xbox for using the term "next gen"? lol
If Sony offer PS4 full and automatic backwards compatibility with the PS5, there is no difference.
 

tiredheadcrab

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Jun 1, 2014
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All consoles now are x86 PCs and the architecture will remain the same, that's why Sony was able to quickly iterate on the PS4 and make a beefier version of it.

Scorpio is a next-gen machine with the added benefit that all your old games will still be compatible. From this point on, similar to PCs, you'll not lose your library when you buy a next-gen system. I guess since NeoGAF is confsued, Microsoft will need to do a little work to make it clear to everyone that Scorpio isn't just a half-assed upgrade (which the PS4 Pro kinda is...), but a full blown next-gen machine that's just backwards-compatible to your current library.
I wouldnt go that far in saying x86 guarantees BC. When you read interviews with Cerny about how he developed the PS4 pro hardware, he was very cautious about how to approach it so that the machine can still run in a base PS4 mode with the same hardware. Even changing the GPU slightly would cause issues os if the CPU ran at a different clock speed for current games on the system. He also said it be difficult for MS to go without generations because of changing gpu architectures(however we are talking about a company who's emulation abilities and legendary).

This might be due to the fact that Xbox and PS4 dev kits allow developers to target the hardware directly. So if sony goes with a different CPU and GPU architecture, I wonder how they will handle BC.

I could be wrong though, but based on the interviews Cerny did, didnt give me much hope for BC on PS5. If I am wrong please someone reassure me as I have games on my PS4 that I own digitally that id like to keep on PS5.
 

Omnistalgic

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It's obvious that Sony and Microsoft are perusing different game plans. Andrew House said so when he remarked "they have their strategy, and we have ours." PS4 Pro has just enough power to take advantage of a 4K television set; everything else is an afterthought. On the other hand, Scorpio is what a next generation console would look like if we were starting afresh in 2017. Listen to the man above. Scorpio is "full blown next-gen". It also has support for features that are missing from the Xbox One (e.g. VR).

How long before Thomas Mahler is chastised or cautioned by team Xbox for using the term "next gen"? lol
if this is true, then MS are basically starting the gen when they want to, which is cool. I think it's a tad too early particularly when this generation is just hitting it's stride. I think you have to release something that will blow away the competition graphically to impress more casual audiences. If it's just PS4/X1 is "low" settings Pro is "Medium", and Scorpio is "High", I don't get why they are hitting the reset button so early (even with b/c). Then again, I guess there's no downside to releasing a more powerful console as an option.
 

Interfectum

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Nov 14, 2008
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If Sony offer PS4 full and automatic backwards compatibility with the PS5, there is no difference.
Yes there is.

There are two different paths here:

- You buy an "Xbox" game and put it in Xbox One or Scorpio or Windows 10 PC and it will work.
- You buy a PS5 game, it will not work on your PS4.

Whether the PS5 plays PS4 games or not is irrelevant. They key difference is forward compatibility.
 

JaggedSac

Member
Jan 14, 2010
17,476
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Yes there is.

There are two different paths here:

- You buy an "Xbox" game and put it in Xbox One or Scorpio or Windows 10 PC and it will work.
- You buy a PS5 game, it will not work on your PS4.

Whether the PS5 plays PS4 games or not is irrelevant. They key difference is forward compatibility.
If BC is full and automatic, a dev is likely to still target the 100+ million userbase of the PS4 and let the fact of BC allow the PS5 players to play the game.
 

Hoo-doo

Member
Sep 29, 2011
27,222
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465
Yes there is.

There are two different paths here:

- You buy an "Xbox" came and put it in Xbox One or Scorpio and it will work.
- You buy a PS5 game, it will not work on your PS4.

Whether the PS5 plays PS4 games or not is irrelevant. They key difference is forward compatibility.
Seeing as you're talking about PS5 here, it's simpler to then also talk about the Scorpio successor.

Will games you buy on the Scorpio 2 in 2020 still work on XB1? You're saying they will, but I have my doubts. Forward compatibility only goes so far.
 

Burdmayn

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if this is true, then MS are basically starting the gen when they want to, which is cool. I think it's a tad too early particularly when this generation is just hitting it's stride. I think you have to release something that will blow away the competition graphically to impress more casual audiences. If it's just PS4/X1 is "low" settings Pro is "Medium", and Scorpio is "High", I don't get why they are hitting the reset button so early (even with b/c). Then again, I guess there's no downside to releasing a more powerful console as an option.
Marketing talk aside, what makes you say that they're "hitting the reset button"? The only scenario where I would say that applies were the jumps from PS1 to PS2, PS2 to PS3 etc...

Seeing as you're talking about PS5 here, it's simpler to then also talk about the Scorpio successor.

Will games you buy on the Scorpio 2 in 2020 still work on XB1? You're saying they will, but I have my doubts. Forward compatibility only goes so far.
I very much agree with you here. I think people are taking some of Phil's comments about forward comparability a bit too literally here. It's just physically impossible for them to support the current Xbox One models indefinitely. Phil's comments were marketing speak that talk up their "next" hardware, not the "next next" hardware.
 

timlot

Banned
Dec 1, 2004
1,551
0
0
People going to be upset if Xbox one holding Scorpio back.
I remember when Forza Horizon 2 was coming out back in 2014 people were saying the Xbox One version was going to be held back by the XB360 version. Would make since because at the time the XB1 console base was probably around 6 million while xb360 was at 80+million. Yet that turned out to be far from the case with the XB1 version being a true open world and the xb360 version being a more linear racer among many other graphical differences.

On Scorpio from what I've read and a video interview with Phil I saw,they start development for a high end PC spec (now that all their game are on PC) then adjust down for consoles. That's the benefit of having the Win10 UWP code base on all the platforms.
 

MilkyJoe

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Jan 29, 2014
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Yes there is.

There are two different paths here:

- You buy an "Xbox" game and put it in Xbox One or Scorpio or Windows 10 PC and it will work.
- You buy a PS5 game, it will not work on your PS4.

Whether the PS5 plays PS4 games or not is irrelevant. They key difference is forward compatibility.
Have Sony said either way yet?
 

Interfectum

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Nov 14, 2008
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If BC is full and automatic, a dev is likely to still target the 100+ million userbase of the PS4 and let the fact of BC allow the PS5 players to play the game.
Yeah I'm sure tons of devs will still do cross gen stuff, as they have in the past. They'll also want a good showpiece game for PS5 as well though.

Seeing as you're talking about PS5 here, it's simpler to then also talk about the Scorpio successor.

Will games you buy on the Scorpio 2 in 2020 still work on XB1? You're saying they will, but I have my doubts. Forward compatibility only goes so far.
Yeah eventually they'll have to cut XB1 loose. I'm curious how they'll handle that. Probably similar to Apple.
 

Izuna

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Nov 23, 2010
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;( if only he had also played Scalebound

~~

I hope we get a Titanfall 1 update. Would be sweet to play that in 4K
 

BigPapi

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Jun 14, 2016
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Adding a few effects to differ from LOW and Ultra is not remotely even same thing with making a game based on higher tech. More then so graphics obviously , CPU, gameplay etc everything changes based on limiter tech.
I agree but I don't believe that Xbox one will be supported indefinitely for this to make such an impact. Besides the majority of developers are not making innovating gameplay changes they are instead focusing on upping the graphics.