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Phil Spencer "Played my first games on early Scorpio unit."

Spork4000

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Mar 29, 2013
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Is this really such a feat though? I mean, Vita/3DS is the only real handheld comparisons here.
Well sheild portable was more powerful than both and ran some great looking games. Not to mention some devs push graphics in the phone space.
 
Feb 15, 2013
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Yeah I'm not seeing it as bad either, some people clearly don't like it though.

I can see Phil coming on stage at E3 and saying "Look, what we had planned is clearly not working as well as we hoped, sales of Xbox One have not been what we would have liked, so we need to change things to make Xbox better for customers and we will make that change with Scorpio, our next generation Xbox"

If they are upfront with us, I'm sure they will piss off less people, than if they try to hide it behind all the PR bullshit.
It's not about pissing people, it's about not matching their strategy, there is no "generation" for MS anymore even it's 18TF.
 

Hoo-doo

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Sep 29, 2011
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Why not just an Xbox One E line? The higher end 'Elite' line of hardware that accompanies the Xbox One S line of products ('Slim').

That way they can just introduce new hardware with the same name in the future instead of having to endlessly come up with more cool sounding names that only make it more confusing to market. Similar to how iPad Air/Pro or Macbook Air / Macbook Pro does it.
 

Dark Cloud

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Feb 2, 2016
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dropping your existing userbase after only 3 years is hardly the way to get people to flock to your new machine. who's to say they won't do it again? it's a quick way to lose your consumers trust. BUT, they can't just be an xbone 2.0 either. brand association will mean it won't change the current landscape. basically i think they're (x)boned either way
It's 4 years not 3 years and they did this before with the original Xbox. This isn't something new. The X1 failed. It didn't do good and if they feel the need to move on to the next gen then go ahead. Tell the consumers to wait until they feel like there's enough games to justify a purchase of their system and buy it then.
 

Leyasu

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Apr 25, 2014
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Why not just an Xbox One E line? The higher end 'Elite' line of hardware that accompanies the Xbox One S line of products ('Slim').

That way they can just introduce new hardware with the same name in the future instead of having to endlessly come up with more cool sounding names that only make it more confusing to market. Similar to how iPad Air/Pro or Macbook Air / Macbook Pro does it.
I've often thought that they would drop the "one" bit to distance themselves from the original. I suppose it all depends on how they position the Scorpio.
 

Kikorin

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Sep 14, 2014
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I doubt they'll promote Scorpio like a new gen, especially because it will probably cost a lot and will be just for hardcore Microsoft fanboys. I think other people will continue to prefer the base X1 or X1s that are already sold at a super cheap price and will be even lower when the Scorpio will be out.
 
Feb 18, 2013
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To me market already showed that a more powerful console doesn't necessarily mean good sales.
Ps4 Pro sold just 238.000 units compared to more than 1.3 mln Ps4 slim. And that's at 300$.

Considering Scorpio won't be sold at less than 400$ i can see it having very low sales, especially if it's just moderately more powerful than Ps4 Pro. To be much more powerful it should sell at 450-500$, unless Microsoft doesn't care selling the console at loss. It's a really difficult situation for Scorpio.

Exclusive games more than specs will determine if it will be succesfull or not.
Agreed, games are the highest priority for any platform.

However I wish some folk would be a bit more consistent in their views. Not you specifically but certain media folk and some members here. From late 2013 onwards for what seemed like a year or so, the dominant subject was resolution and it got so grating we even got petitions going like "Assassins Creed no parity" or what I thought was the saddest thing, the game Sunset Overdrive was announced as having a 900p resolution and the thread itself was the busiest one about the game before release.

All the while I was thinking, what about the games themselves?
 

Hesemonni

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Feb 27, 2007
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That's what I thought too. Based on the comments made by AMD's CEO I'm still firmly in the not-Zen boat. Actually, I'm expecting heftily overclocked Jaguar still.

I hope Scorpio had all kinds on neat things going for it, but I tend to be realist when it comes to console specs.
 

LostDonkey

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Nov 4, 2015
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That is the whole point is the CPU, if its not upgraded then the Scorpio will be not worth it over the pro for me as Checkerboard looks good enough on my 55 inch (its getting to nit picking in freeze frame).

Also PSVR has reprojection at 60 FPS, VIVE and Occulus require 90. I will eat my pants if jaguar is running 2017 games at 90 FPS.

Something is not adding up, Occulus requires I5 class CPU
Oculus only needs 45fps with Asynchronous Spacewarp.
 
Jun 2, 2013
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They have no reason to go back on the no exclusive thing. 3rd party aren't leaving the PS4 behind and all their exclusives will be on PC and therefore have to run on Xbox One equivalent hardware anyway, It'd just piss people off, for no real benefit. Maybe a year after the PS5 releases they'll drop support, as more 3rd party dev would be on board with 2 much more powerful systems on the market, but I doubt it'll happen until then.
They might not have exclusives right away but give it a year or 2 when Xbox One is on its last legs, I mean it's hardly a powerhouse and there's not much else they can squeeze out of the ageing GPU now.

MS has already started looking into VR for Scorpio, something which will be exclusive, no way Xbox One is doing VR at this point now, so Scorpio will have exclusive games, regardless to what they said before.

3rd Party will continue to support Xbox One, just like they did with PS3 / 360, so MS doesn't need to worry about that too much but support will slow down eventually.
 

Theorry

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They might not have exclusives right away but give it a year or 2 when Xbox One is on its last legs, I mean it's hardly a powerhouse and there's not much else they can squeeze out of the ageing GPU now.

MS has already started looking into VR for Scorpio, something which will be exclusive, no way Xbox One is doing VR at this point now, so Scorpio will have exclusive games, regardless to what they said before.

3rd Party will continue to support Xbox One, just like they did with PS3 / 360, so MS doesn't need to worry about that too much but support will slow down eventually.
Jup and then after a while Scorpio will be the cheap Xbox One S version and we get a new Scorpio.
 

ethomaz

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Mar 19, 2013
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Well MS haven't just upgraded the CPU + GPU like the PS4 Pro, they are using a new CPU + GPU, so I'm leaning towards Next Gen now, no matter what MS PR is saying right now, to keep XB1 owners happy.
That is weird because...

MS is doing the same than Sony with Pro but using more GPU units and possible clocks... Vega is a improvement over Polaris, it is not a new AMD GPU tech and its big advantage lies in the new cache/memory controller that won't be used on Scorpio... Pro's GPU have some Vega improvements too (because the AMD GPU tech improved since Polaris release).

About the CPU people expect Zen but this prototype is not Zen because AMD is working to release Zen discrete (desktop and server) CPU yet... Zen's APU is not ready yet... what left for MS is of course a Jaguar based APU with better clocks.

That is what AMD has to offer to MS for Scorpio... Jaguar based APU with 6TFs running at better clocks than Pro's APU... MS work will be how to cooler the system so I expect a big fan and case like original XB1.

To me market already showed that a more powerful console doesn't necessarily mean good sales.
Ps4 Pro sold just 238.000 units compared to more than 1.3 mln Ps4 slim. And that's at 300$.
Pro is $399.
It sold 238k in US December alone... it is over 500k in US + ~150k JP + ??? rest of the world... possible over 1m WW.

Pro or Scorpio won't sell like the cheaper options... it was crazy to thing that... while the Pro sales are below what I expect (I was expecting 2m WW in 2016) it is not bad in any way... a $399 premium machine selling 1m WW facing supply issues is pretty good.

If Scopio do that it will be really great for MS.
 

leeh

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Dec 30, 2014
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Jup and then after a while Scorpio will be the cheap Xbox One S version and we get a new Scorpio.
Yup. I feel like people are seriously undervaluing the benefit of this to the games market. It will seriously help large AAA development.
 

KORNdoggy

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Sep 20, 2013
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It's 4 years not 3 years and they did this before with the original Xbox. This isn't something new. The X1 failed. It didn't do good and if they feel the need to move on to the next gen then go ahead. Tell the consumers to wait until they feel like there's enough games to justify a purchase of their system and buy it then.
so your solution is to tell people NOT to buy you new hardware?

and X1 moderate success still didn't cause them to prematurely jump into a new generation of hardware. the 360 launch fit into start of the new gen like all the other manufacturers. if MS launch a new gen now, and sony stick to their current plan, we're talking a 2 to 3 year premature ejaculation lol. devs will always work to the lowest common denominator (especially if it had the biggest userbase) so MS gain nothing from doing it. they'd just be jumping into another short generation that they drop after 3-4 years. as a consumer who wants that?
 

Lone Wolf

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It's 4 years not 3 years and they did this before with the original Xbox. This isn't something new. The X1 failed. It didn't do good and if they feel the need to move on to the next gen then go ahead. Tell the consumers to wait until they feel like there's enough games to justify a purchase of their system and buy it then.
The Xbox One failed?
 

leeh

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Dec 30, 2014
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About the CPU people expect Zen but this prototype is not Zen because AMD is working to release Zen discrete (desktop and server) CPU yet... Zen's APU is not ready yet... what left for MS is of course a Jaguar based APU with better clocks.
MS won't have to wait until public release for Zen. Considering AMD have engineering samples, it's not far fetched at all for MS to have a engineering sample of what would be the Scorpio APU with Zen in, but let's not get into this...
 

LostDonkey

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so your solution is to tell people NOT to buy you new hardware?

and X1 moderate success still didn't cause them to prematurely jump into a new generation of hardware. the 360 launch fit into start of the new gen like all the other manufacturers. if MS launch a new gen now, and sony stick to their current plan, we're talking a 2 to 3 year premature ejaculation lol. devs will always work to the lowest common denominator (especially if it had the biggest userbase) so MS gain nothing from doing it. they'd just be jumping into another short generation that they drop after 3-4 years. as a consumer who wants that?
Because they all worked on wii games didn't they.
 

scoobs

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It was a letdown for sure from the runaway success of the 360. Its not doing awful though, its just getting crushed by the competition, whereas they were doing the crushing last gen (in the US at least).
 

ethomaz

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MS won't have to wait until public release for Zen. Considering AMD have engineering samples, it's not far fetched at all for MS to have a engineering sample of what would be the Scorpio APU with Zen in, but let's not get into this...
Believe the dream lol AMD confirmed Zen's APU won't be ready before 2018.
 
Jun 2, 2013
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It's not about pissing people, it's about not matching their strategy, there is no "generation" for MS anymore even it's 18TF.
It will be interesting to see how they play it but lets face it, Xbox One isn't going to last much longer, not when its already pretty much maxed out now and the PS4 is destroying it in sales. MS can quite easily change strategy if they need to.


Erm...do we know about the CPU yet?
At CES a few weeks ago, AMD had Scorpio listed on their Ryzen/Vega stand, so it's looking like it might use them for Scorpio.
 

Floody

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Dec 4, 2014
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They might not have exclusives right away but give it a year or 2 when Xbox One is on its last legs, I mean it's hardly a powerhouse and there's not much else they can squeeze out of the ageing GPU now.

MS has already started looking into VR for Scorpio, something which will be exclusive, no way Xbox One is doing VR at this point now, so Scorpio will have exclusive games, regardless to what they said before.

3rd Party will continue to support Xbox One, just like they did with PS3 / 360, so MS doesn't need to worry about that too much but support will slow down eventually.
Thinking about it some more, it might speed up how fast 3rd parties drop this gen, took about 1.5 years for most to for last gen, and if the Scorpio already has a 10m+ installbase by the time the PS5 is out (2019/20 is my guess), it might speed it up quite a bit. but I don't think it'll have a single non-VR game you can't get on the regular XB1 for at least 2-3 years, just don't think MS will be in a position to really justify it until then.
 

Hoo-doo

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If I recall, someone tweeted saying it was fixed on that slide and the AMD rep said it was for a reason.
You mean the same guy who acted like it was his own picture when he just cut off the watermark on the bottom? Dude wasn't even at CES probably.
 

Dark Cloud

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Feb 2, 2016
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WW, the same as 360. In the markets where Xbox has always been strong? No.

By that logic, the 360 also failed. Unless the 360 was strong in EU countries outside of the UK?
I shouldn't say failed. That's a little too harsh. Lol

It's already being replaced by next gen hardware (no matter what the branding is it's a next gen type of leap in specs) and needed multiple price cuts to even get where it's at. Looks like Scorpio will get exclusive games as far as VR goes?

The Xbox 360 was a great system and one of my favorite systems ever that got very good first party games compared to the X1.

It's not a knock against the system. It and the Wii U got destroyed by the PS4.
 

GrayFoxBH

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Jun 21, 2014
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Scorpio is so unattractive to me. I have the original Xbox One, and see no point making the upgrade, since I have a very decent PC that will receive all Scorpio games, and run it better or likewise in the worst case scenario.
 

Ushay

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Sep 9, 2014
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Don't listen to those who say it's just a pro, Scorpio is the new generation that's compatible with the old one, MS is going the pc and mobile route, i always make the examples of iphone 6 and 7, different generations but play the same apps, and 2012 pc vs 2017 pc, different generations of hardware but they play the same games, scorpio will be the same with the xb1.

You should be happy for this, finally console manufacturers speculations are going to end, consoles aren't some alien things, they are just closed custom pc, put the same os on them and they will play the same games(well it's not that simple but you get the idea).
Makes perfect sense to me and frankly I prefer this model.
 

ethomaz

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Oh ��

Well, everyone just ignore that post.
Let's be fair... I hope it is Zen because Jaguar was already weak at PS4/XB1 launch... consoles needs a better CPU for sure but the chances are really that low because AMD is that late with CPU tech... GPU tech they are better but Zen is something most PC enthusiastic hopes to close at least 2 years of Intel tech ahead AMD... and AMD is having trouble to delivery Zen.

Ano people in this thread saying Scorpio is a new generation while Pro is the same generation is fooling themselves... a new generation is made by hardware that runs exclusive software that can't run in old systems... Scorpio won't be that.

PS. 360 has strong in EU countries outside UK... it sold near 3 million in Germany for example... hell even Japan it closed 1.5m... it did really amazing outside US and UK.
 

LukasTaves

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Dec 14, 2011
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WW, the same as 360. In the markets where Xbox has always been strong? No.

By that logic, the 360 also failed. Unless the 360 was strong in EU countries outside of the UK?
Towards the end of the generation it did become fairly strong in the rest of the europe, perhaps due kinect, I dunno, but Ms might have a hard time replicating that, because not only they don't have another kinect coming, and because Ps4 is way stronger than ps3 was there as well.
 
Jun 2, 2013
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Thinking about it some more, it might speed up how fast 3rd parties drop this gen, took about 1.5 years for most to this gen, and if the Scorpio already has a 10m+ installbase by the time the PS5 is out (2019/20 is my guess), it might speed it up quite a bit. but I don't think it'll have a single non-VR game you can't get on the regular XB1 for at least 2-3 years, just don't think MS will be in a position to really justify it until then.
Yeah last gen, it felt like they really didn't want to drop support for the old systems and it seemed to take a lot longer than normal. But if Scorpio has a good price point and does well, maybe they will drop support quicker than last time.

I can imagine VR being slow for MS, just like the others, especially if they partner with Oculus Rift as their VR headset of choice, as it's not exactly a cheap bit of kit.
 

EvB

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I don't know what Phil's objective with this kind of tweet is?

Certainly not to sell more Xbox One's. To discourage people from buying a PS4 / Switch / PC? To hype up an existing Xbox fan base? Or is it just trolling for retweets?
Just to say what he is doing? It's kind of exciting if you are following it and I imagine it's very exciting if you love games and work close to it
 

leeh

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Dec 30, 2014
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Let's be fair... I hope it is Zen because Jaguar was already weak at PS4/XB1 launch... consoles needs a better CPU for sure but the chances are really that low because AMD is that late with CPU tech... GPU tech they are better but Zen is something most PC enthusiastic hopes to close at least 2 years of Intel tech ahead AMD... and AMD is having trouble to delivery Zen.

Ano people in this thread saying Scorpio is a new generation while Pro is the same generation is fooling themselves... a new generation is made by hardware that runs exclusive software that can't run in old systems... Scorpio won't be that.

PS. 360 has strong in EU countries outside UK... it sold near 3 million in Germany for example.
I seriously hope it is, as you can tell, due to my very thorough arguing towards it.

I don't think we'll ever see a new generation from MS IMO.

Thanks for the 360 clarification.