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[Shmunter]

Releasing more content over time over the internet is literally the definition of GaaS lol

Sure, but GaaS is a reoccurring revenue model, not simply patches, or bespoke dlc. Omitting key concepts distorts true intent.

Games as a Service imply a living, changing product with aim of reoccurring spend for an indefinite period.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Sure, but GaaS is a reoccurring revenue model, not simply patches, or bespoke dlc. Omitting key concepts distorts true intent.

Games as a Service imply a living, changing product with aim of reoccurring spend for an indefinite period.

No, GaaS is not simply a reoccurring revenue model. GaaS does not imply reoccurring spend, though it doesn't exclude it.

You're making up your own definition of GaaS here. You're saying that a game that is continually updated for free is not GaaS, correct?

 

[Shmunter]

No, GaaS is not simply a reoccurring revenue model. GaaS does not imply reoccurring spend, though it doesn't exclude it.

You're making up your own definition of GaaS here. You're saying that a game that is continually updated for free is not GaaS, correct?

That’s right, patches incorporating new game+ or other alterations and fixes are not a GaaS model of gaming. TLOU2 as it stands is not a GaaS game.

 

[MrFunSocks]

That’s right, patches incorporating new game+ or other alterations and fixes are not a GaaS model of gaming. TLOU2 as it stands is not a GaaS game.

That's wrong lol.

And when TLOU2's multiplayer mode comes along, it will still not be GaaS in your opinion I'm guessing? Or has it suddenly changed to then be GaaS?

 

[JTCx]

No, GaaS is not simply a reoccurring revenue model.

 

[Shmunter]

That's wrong lol.

And when TLOU2's multiplayer mode comes along, it will still not be GaaS in your opinion I'm guessing? Or has it suddenly changed to then be GaaS?

There’s not much point in continuing a conversation where you haven’t even done the most basic of research on what GaaS is.

Have you heard of SaaS? Office 365 vs Office 2010 for example? Both have been updated through the years with fixes and expanded features, are both SaaS? The internet doesn’t turn every product into a Service.

There are specific economic and reoccurring facets to Software/Game as a Service business models.

Take it or leave, your prerogative.

 

[MrFunSocks]

There’s not much point in continuing a conversation where you haven’t even done the most basic of research on what GaaS is.

Have you heard of SaaS? Office 365 vs Office 2010 for example? Both have been updated through the years with fixes and expanded features, are both SaaS? The internet doesn’t turn every product into a Service.

There are specific economic and reoccurring facets to Software/Game as a Service business models.

Take it or leave, your prerogative.

GaaS does not require constant monetization. I literally only play online multiplayer games, pretty much every single one of them is GaaS, and I have spent exactly $0 on 99% of them after the initial purchase.

 

[Shmunter]

GaaS does not require constant monetization. I literally only play online multiplayer games, pretty much every single one of them is GaaS, and I have spent exactly $0 on 99% of them after the initial purchase.

Ahh this explains why you’ve conflated the design principle. GaaS central goal is to setup an environment for continuous spending, not forcing you to do so. Indeed, many GaaS games are totally free to encourage you into the system and hopefully spend within it. If your not in there in the first place, spending there has no chance.

Hope this makes sense now.

 

[ZehDon]

I actually see Gamepass working, i can see its benefits, and i can also see the strategy behind it.

But I am also terrified at what it means for the gaming community as a whole.

Take this Halo fiasco for example.

Microsoft was prepared to release Halo in that current state this Xmas, as a launch game. They only decided to postpone it because of the tremendous backlash of Craig.

The Top brass of Microsoft must have seen that demo before they showed it, and they must have said, let see what the reaction is, let's try to squeeze it through, perhaps there won't be a backlash, this is a fucking problem.

Game pass needs content to feed it, if Microsoft was prepared to compromise on the quality of a game like halo, just to get it out in time, is a worrying factor. And it will only get worse.

Those big games like Fable and Avowed, I bet you they will be good games but they won't be fucking Spectualor masterpieces that Sony makes, why, Microsoft won't allow it. Sony would give those companies all the time in the world to make the game the most polished game ever. Microsoft will be like, that's good enough, chuck it on.

They don't care about the quality like sony does, if it's good enough use it. This should worry you, it should worry everyone.

How else can you explain that Halo demo? Phil spencer must of fucking seen it before the screening. he gave it the thumbs up. Be fucking afraid. Quantity over quality. We are going to lose the best gaming experiences because a company wants to make a cheap buck, and my fear is they will succeed.

Microsoft is fundamentally changing gaming forever, and i am afraid its for the worse.

They don't care about consoles, they don't care about where you play, they don't care about Sony.

All they care about is if you have game pass. Do they care about quality? not like sony does.

Its fucking Game over if they succeed

“You know that unbelievably high profile game that Microsoft delayed to improve its quality, negatively impacting the entire console launch as a result? This means Microsoft doesn’t care about quality.”
What?

Microsoft have made some missteps. Delaying Halo Infinite isn’t one of them. Spin it as “they should never have shown it!” if you must - but to use it to say Microsoft doesnt care about quality isn’t a well rationed argument. After 343i blew half a decade, half a billion dollars, and wasted one of the greatest series in history, I’d push for the game to go at launch too.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Ahh this explains why you’ve conflated the design principle. GaaS central goal is to setup an environment for continuous spending, not forcing you to do so. Indeed, many GaaS games are totally free to encourage you into the system and hopefully spend within it. If your not in there in the first place, spending there has no chance.

Hope this makes sense now.

So again, by design GaaS doesn't require or even push continual spending. It can have continual spending, but it doesn't by design.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

So again, by design GaaS doesn't require or even push continual spending. It can have continual spending, but it doesn't by design.

It HAS to by design. Because the spending is what keeps it alive.

You are acting like a game studio is somehow puting in a donation box for people to throw money in. If you make a game where you keep adding content but needing the players to keep putting in money to maintain, it doesn't matter that they don't physically force you; it only matters that the money is required for its existence.

And I always find the "Everything is GaaS so GaaS is good" argument actually insane. I find it so insane in fact that I couldn't refute it, like if you say ""2 is a number, but so is 3. So 1+1=3 is technically correct".

I might as well try to tell the CoD players "CoD has level ups and skill trees! That means it is an RPG! That means you should play FF7!"

That kind of leap of logic is not one that belong to a sane person.

 

[MrFunSocks]

It HAS to by design. Because the spending is what keeps it alive.

You are acting like a game studio is somehow puting in a donation box for people to throw money in. If you make a game where you keep adding content but needing the players to keep putting in money to maintain, it doesn't matter that they don't physically force you; it only matters that the money is required for its existence.

And I always find the "Everything is GaaS so GaaS is good" argument actually insane. I find it so insane in fact that I couldn't refute it, like if you say ""2 is a number, but so is 3. So 1+1=3 is technically correct".

I might as well try to tell the CoD players "CoD has level ups and skill trees! That means it is an RPG! That means you should play FF7!"

That kind of leap of logic is not one that belong to a sane person.

It's almost like people buying a game and enjoying playing it and getting content might make them buy the next game that company makes as well, or more games like it.

GaaS does not require microtransactions or more purchases.

 

[Wizz-Art]

GaaS is simply a game that get's updated regularly with new content after release and is supported for a long time for free to keep the playerbase engaged. Nothing bad about that at all. To me it's pro-consumer instead of dropping the support once a game launches.

 

[Klayzer]

GaaS is simply a game that get's updated regularly with new content after release and is supported for a long time for free to keep the playerbase engaged. Nothing bad about that at all. To me it's pro-consumer instead of dropping the support once a game launches.

The only GaaS game I know that get free updates is MHW: Iceborne. Also, you're probably the first person I know to put GaaS and pro consumer together.

To me GaaS games drip fed content for years is the antithesis of pro consumer. Publishers want you to trust them that quality new content will be coming at regular intervals. Not inclined to believe that after what some games want to call "content". Respectfully disagree with your opinion.

 

[Shrap]

GaaS is simply a game that get's updated regularly with new content after release and is supported for a long time for free to keep the playerbase engaged. Nothing bad about that at all. To me it's pro-consumer instead of dropping the support once a game launches.

...and people wonder how propaganda is so successful.

 

[Klayzer]

...and people wonder how propaganda is so successful.

I read that and had to do a double take. Seems like one subset of gamers are pushing this pro/anti narrative really hard. It comes up even when its not applicable to the conversation. This need to look at everything through a black and white lens is irritating.

 

[Wizz-Art]

Instead of paying for a one and done game, games like State of Decay 2, Forza Motorsports, Forza Horizon, Gears of War keep the game fresh delivering regularly new content for free, you don't have to pay a dime if you want to enjoy the new content. To me that's pro-consumer as I get more worth for my money once I have bought the game.

 

[Pinktaco]

If people are willing to accept a mostly GaaS model in the future, all power to them. Just please dont act like any company does it out of the good in their hearts. They're here to make money as efficient as possible and not care about what is/isnt pro consumer.
Imagining other wise is lying to yourself, but who am I to judge.

 

[GHG]

Instead of paying for a one and done game, games like State of Decay 2, Forza Motorsports, Forza Horizon, Gears of War keep the game fresh delivering regularly new content for free, you don't have to pay a dime if you want to enjoy the new content. To me that's pro-consumer as I get more worth for my money once I have bought the game.

Are you taking the piss?

 

[Wizz-Art]

Are you taking the piss?

The Eliminator update was free wasn't it? And when DLC drops they always offer a car for free. If you want more you go buy the carpass and DLC maps.

 

[GHG]

The Eliminator update was free wasn't it? And when DLC drops they always offer a car for free. If you want more you go buy the carpass and DLC maps.

The Forza games are loaded with DLC and don't even hide it.

If you don't get the extra stuff you are given scraps and constantly fed advertisements to try and persuade you to buy the car pass and/or the expansion pass.

But if you want to call that "pro-consumer" then you do you.

 

[Wizz-Art]

The Forza games are loaded with DLC and don't even hide it.

If you don't get the extra stuff you are given scraps and constantly fed advertisements to try and persuade you to buy the car pass and/or the expansion pass.

But if you want to call that "pro-consumer" then you do you.

Or you could simply buy the Ultimate Editions and never have those issues you mentioned again. Never ever have those advertisments.

 

[GHG]

Or you could simply buy the Ultimate Editions and never have those issues you mentioned again. Never ever have those advertisments.

Ah, so you do need to spend more money?

Glad we could come to an agreement.

 

[Wizz-Art]

Ah, so you do need to spend more money?

Glad we could come to an agreement.

No, not at all. But if you're annoyed by those advertisements I offered you a simple solution. The UE gets you the carpass, VIP and in Horizon both DLC's well worth it.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

No, not at all. But if you're annoyed by those advertisements I offered you a simple solution. The UE gets you the carpass, VIP and in Horizon both DLC's well worth it.

Perchance, you are not old enough to remember a time when getting all of that was the default?
Because i think what is going on here, is that you assumed it is normal that a game launches incomplete. But the rest of us old farts remember back when such things were in the game when we launch it day one. You think the game studio is doing us a favor because you never saw how things could be done different.

Look, I am not saying all DLC is bad; fighting games certainly benefit, because they were GaaS before GaaS was possible. You were just forced to rebuy the whole game when they release a new edition. Folks used to have to buy Street Fighter III once a year just to keep up with the meta. Now they only have to buy PART of a new game.

But to assume GaaS is how things are, seem to require a lack of experience in a world where GaaS didn't yet exist. I wonder if you even knew what that felt like in the bad old days?

 

[Wizz-Art]

Perchance, you are not old enough to remember a time when getting all of that was the default?
Because i think what is going on here, is that you assumed it is normal that a game launches incomplete. But the rest of us old farts remember back when such things were in the game when we launch it day one. You think the game studio is doing us a favor because you never saw how things could be done different.

Look, I am not saying all DLC is bad; fighting games certainly benefit, because they were GaaS before GaaS was possible. You were just forced to rebuy the whole game when they release a new edition. Folks used to have to buy Street Fighter III once a year just to keep up with the meta. Now they only have to buy PART of a new game.

But to assume GaaS is how things are, seem to require a lack of experience in a world where GaaS didn't yet exist. I wonder if you even knew what that felt like in the bad old days?

I recommend you don't assume things as you can't be further from the truth.

Please, don't act as if the Forza games aren't chokfull of content as is. However if you – like me – play the games untill the next game releases it's well worth it to buy the Ultimate Editions on release as I like to have more cars available to me when I play the game on and off for two years. That simply isn't the same as a game releasing incomplete, still talking about Forza MS and FH here.

I remeber my first game on a console. It was Asteroids on the Atari 2600. A triangle and different sizes and colors of balls. Your own imagination made the triangle your spaceship and the balls asteroids. Yeah it were finished games but that's where the comparisson ends.

 

[GHG]

No, not at all. But if you're annoyed by those advertisements I offered you a simple solution. The UE gets you the carpass, VIP and in Horizon both DLC's well worth it.

I already own them but thanks for your concern.

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

nhl general manager of a team
"Our approach is to not win the Stanley cup or make the playoffs, but simply grow together as a team and be there for each other"

......bruh......

 

[scalman]

If not that then what is ms approach? Dont make many games too? Try to be best shoot for the stars we need good competition not loosers.

 

[Wizz-Art]

I already own them but thanks for your concern.

Then why in the world do you complain about advertisements? There aren't any in the UE.

 

[GHG]

Then why in the world do you complain about advertisements? There aren't any in the UE.

Your point was that you could just buy these games and enjoy a constant stream of new content without spending additional money.

That's simply not true. What part of advertising in game to customers who have already bought said game is pro-consumer?

The whole point of these games is to extract even more money from people, hence the DLC is drip fed over a long period of time.

 

[Wizz-Art]

Your point was that you could just buy these games and enjoy a constant stream of new content without spending additional money.

That's simply not true. What part of advertising in game to customers who have already bought said game is pro-consumer?

The whole point of these games is to extract even more money from people, hence the DLC is drip fed over a long period of time.

My point was that in a game like State of Decay 2, Gears and the Forza franchises you still get content for free even if you choose not to spent anymore, I told you The Eliminator update was free but there is more the update where you have to photograph all vehicles was free, the weekly and monthly changing community races/time trials are free, as is the car offered every time a new carpack releases.

You can deny all that but this isn't something I made up. As you own the UE's yourself you should know that.

When you launch a game with over 700 cars in the base game alone you can't say that's incomplete and they add the cutout content throughout the months following for a price.. The GaaS model where they drop content all the time keeps the playerbase engaged with the game, theres nothing wrong with that, it prolongs the life of a game and that to me is pro-consumer as I already buy the UE's of the Forza games since FM2 it doesn't cost me any extra afterwards. Well worth it because I tend to play those games untill the next one drops. But if I choose to just buy the regular version I will have content for weeks on end to my disposal anyway so don't act like they force you to shelve out extra money or that you have to - because the game is so barebones - that simply isn't true. You always have the choice.

 

[Aion002]

First, not every criticism of your favourite company is “FUD”.

Second, it‘s very clear Sony has gone woke recently and has been more than “one or two random cases” showing that. You can even see the shift in their exclusives.

Sony cancelling a white lady WNBA executive for critizicing BLM

This is a morally corrupt company going full woke and cancel culture.

And what this have to do with Sony censoring anime or not producing anime? Take the L dude, you made a silly post about something you didn't (or pretended not) know and now you are moving the goal post.

Also.... Are you a descendant of Sherlock Holmes? Because, who would know that huge corporations have different perspectives under different situations and most of them (if not all) are morally corrupted?

 

[Kerotan]

NPD saying they sold only 17k in the states last year. Apparently the €299 XBX fire sale all year was inflating the numbers and now it's gone they've plummeted. No wonder Phil is saying this.

 

[jimbojim]

NPD saying they sold only 17k in the states last year. Apparently the €299 XBX fire sale all year was inflating the numbers and now it's gone they've plummeted. No wonder Phil is saying this.

Well, who would by X1S when X1X was that cheap.

 

[Amory]

I don't get into the console wars, but for Xbox fans I see this as a frustrating narrative from MS.

"we don't care about selling a lot of these things" is basically an easy way to shrug off any legitimate criticisms or concerns people have about their $400-$600 box that they're putting up for sale.

 

[Jon Neu]

And what this have to do with Sony censoring anime or not producing anime? Take the L dude, you made a silly post about something you didn't (or pretended not) know and now you are moving the goal post.

Also.... Are you a descendant of Sherlock Holmes? Because, who would know that huge corporations have different perspectives under different situations and most of them (if not all) are morally corrupted?

What does a company becoming woke has to do with woke style censorship? Nothing at all, obviously.

I guess logic escapes does who consider a personal insult the criticism of their favourite company.

 

[Aion002]

What does a company becoming woke has to do with woke style censorship? Nothing at all, obviously.

I guess logic escapes does who consider a personal insult the criticism of their favourite company.

Can you point how Sony is censoring stuff other than pedo bait?

And please don't bring that bug over Trish ass on DMCV that happened on PC and PS4, that was fixed in a patch later.

This idea that Sony censor everything is ridiculous, TLU2 has sex, extreme violence and many things that would be censored in case Sony was the way some claim...


Also, a company supporting a movement it's nothing new.... Huge companies always tries to pander most of the consumers... Whatever they can to bring positivity towards them.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I don't get into the console wars, but for Xbox fans I see this as a frustrating narrative from MS.

"we don't care about selling a lot of these things" is basically an easy way to shrug off any legitimate criticisms or concerns people have about their $400-$600 box that they're putting up for sale.

Frustrating a little yeah, it’s shit to be more blunt about it.

Admittedly I lose my rag a little when I see so many praising him so much particularly on twitter and I shouldn’t do that as opinions and so on.

He could be right, his strategy could be a big win and industry setting for others whilst am more of a what came before was the right way kind of guy.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

This is a morally corrupt company going full woke and cancel culture.

#JonNeuIsOverParty

 

[Kokoloko85]

Where are people getting it for $1 a month? Last I saw they are paying at least the price of Gold for Game Pass and I'd wager that's about 10% of the savvy people who took that deal for more than a year like I did. Unless you're on the PC beta and are paying the $5 a month which is still 5 times more than you're claiming.

Scary thing is people think gamepass profit will fund MS studios for years to come and pay 3rd party aswell......

 

[Shmunter]

Scary thing is people think gamepass profit will fund MS studios for years to come and pay 3rd party aswell......

That’s why a pivot to GaaS is part of the strategy. The games will need to sustain themselves at some point.

 

[MasterCornholio]

#JonNeuIsOverParty

Wait we having a party with Jon Neu ?

I'll bring the Champaign oh I mean cava.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Is that 17k NPD stat going around accurate or just some guessing games?

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Wait we having a party with Jon Neu ?

I'll bring the Champaign oh I mean cava.

Ok, CurryPanda.

 

[Kokoloko85]

That’s why a pivot to GaaS is part of the strategy. The games will need to sustain themselves at some point.

I wonder if it makes the amount needed for all the studios and 3rd party. Or budgets are gonna get less for studios Depending on how much gamepass makes?

There must be some calculations somewhere figuring out how many million people = how much profit for gamepass?
How much 3rd party takes and how much each 1st/2nd party studio will need per project/year etc

Will it cater for more AA titles instead of AAA or a healthy medium.

All I know is Nintendo and Sony make most there money from selling 1st and 2nd party titles. If gamepass takes away from big sales like Halo and Gears normally make, I wonder if it will be worth it.

For example netflix is making bucks, but enough bucks to produce multiple marvel movies and other movies with it? Etc
Im pretty dumb when it comes to Gaas lol

 

[MasterCornholio]

Ok, CurryPanda.

I don't know if China will let me have a Panda though. If I were to tell them that I would turn it into a curry they would probably lock me up for life.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

I don't know if China will let me have a Panda though. If I were to tell them that I would turn it into a curry they would probably lock me up for life.

Knew it.

 

[ResilientBanana]

How many different ways does the man have to say they want to sell games and services more than consoles?

 

[Shmunter]

I wonder if it makes the amount needed for all the studios and 3rd party. Or budgets are gonna get less for studios Depending on how much gamepass makes?

There must be some calculations somewhere figuring out how many million people = how much profit for gamepass?
How much 3rd party takes and how much each 1st/2nd party studio will need per project/year etc

Will it cater for more AA titles instead of AAA or a healthy medium.

All I know is Nintendo and Sony make most there money from selling 1st and 2nd party titles. If gamepass takes away from big sales like Halo and Gears normally make, I wonder if it will be worth it.

For example netflix is making bucks, but enough bucks to produce multiple marvel movies and other movies with it? Etc
Im pretty dumb when it comes to Gaas lol

I’m actually perplexed by Halo Infinite going free to play. You’d think they’d want it to be a carrot for keeping people within gamepass. I have no idea what Craig Spencer’s strategy is any longer, it’s all over the place.

Gamepass is definitely incompatible with Sony AAA style games which can be finished without turning a buck during gameplay. It would do no good for plebs to buy one month of gamepass, finish a new blockbuster, and check out till the next one drops.