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Opinion Business Game Dev Phil Spencer: Xbox Game Pass isn’t “burning money to gain customers”

10000

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no one in the right mind could think 1$ per 3 month for handful of brand new AAA and other is not burning money, but yeah they could kiss phil's ass and call it a day

I could see this model works if it's applied to gaas wih heavy mtx and some old games like just cause 3 xxl and sleeping dogs that basically a 2$ game in real value (taking account from the lowest price recorded at steam)
 
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Jul 6, 2015
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This mean that without on gamepass they earn billions with gears 5
I didn't say that. Everyone knows why the game was given away for $1, to push gamepass even if it meant losing money vs selling it at $60. You wanna try saying that's not burning money? Or are you gonna try to say they made more from the $1 subs than they would have made selling it for $60 XD?
 
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Elios83

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What is he supposed to say?
Giving away the service with continous promotions at 1$ is the definition of burning money to try to attract people.
He's not even denying that they're losing money on it atm, he's just saying that it's part of the business and they know what they're doing.
But this is just the 'investement' phase of the service. What will happen in the future will depend on many factors.
Its not like they're the first ones to do this, go ask Amazon with Prime and other companies.
 
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GHG

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The only way this works is if the first party games they have on the service make a shit load of money from monetisation which would be enough to cover the development costs and any costs involved in acquiring 3rd party content for the service.

Either that or a price rise will come later down the line once they believe they've cornered the market enough and have people hooked.

Everyone needs to enjoy this while it lasts. Its the same with Netflix etc as well. One day we will look back on these days as the golden age of media subscription services when the prices were cheap and we got a lot of content for our money.
 

thelastword

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Apr 7, 2006
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Phil: XBOX gamepass is doing great, numbers have doubled YOY.....
Phillipine 1 : How many are subscribed to Gamepass Uncle Phil?
Phil: With a Smirk, Can't disclose, you believe in uncle right?
Phillipine 2: Shoves his way through..... I believe you Uncle Phil....
Phillipine 1: But, but, the easiest way to prove such a thing is with numbers....
Phillipine 2 to Phillipine 1: Shhh!, Gamepass is doing great ok......
Phil to Phillipine 2: Datta Boy, you have such promise. I will be sure to send you some merch and loot bags filled with Gamepass Codes and the best MS games this gen.....
Phillipine 2: With the most endearing look ever.....Thanks Uncle Phil.....
 

Nikana

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Jan 26, 2016
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Why are people continuing to be so dense when it comes to game pass? "giving it away" is the most disingenuous comment on this forum. Again, this isn't hard by any means. Any service has a trial and a lot of them don't even charge for it. Yet these companies aren't "giving it away." So why are people so adamant and pushing this narrative when it comes to Game Pass?
 

Chromata

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Jul 11, 2019
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Why are people continuing to be so dense when it comes to game pass? "giving it away" is the most disingenuous comment on this forum. Again, this isn't hard by any means. Any service has a trial and a lot of them don't even charge for it. Yet these companies aren't "giving it away." So why are people so adamant and pushing this narrative when it comes to Game Pass?
The trial periods for services tend to be 1 or 2 weeks long. Services that start off cheap also tend to be quite limited and they work their way up from there.

Game Pass was a fantastic service from the beginning with high quality games for cheap and we still get promotions like 3 months for $1. Heck, PC Game pass is only $6.

I'm not saying MS is foolish or exceedingly generous. They're clearly playing the long game here and will definitely increase the price down the line. However, I find it very hard to believe that they're making money off game pass right now.
 
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Aidah

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Why are people continuing to be so dense when it comes to game pass? "giving it away" is the most disingenuous comment on this forum. Again, this isn't hard by any means. Any service has a trial and a lot of them don't even charge for it. Yet these companies aren't "giving it away." So why are people so adamant and pushing this narrative when it comes to Game Pass?
For a while there you could upgrade up to 3 years of Gold to GamePass Ultimate for $1. Plus they've had 12 months half off, 6 months half off, 3 months for $1. It's not just your typical 1 month trial thing.
 
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Making income from games nobody buys anymore and hitting first-parties for those sweet MAU numbers seems not to be a bad idea.
 

Nikana

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The trial periods for services tend to be 1 or 2 weeks long. Services that start off cheap also tend to be quite limited and they work their way up from there.

Game Pass was a fantastic service from the beginning with high quality games for cheap and we still get promotions like 3 months for $1. Heck, PC Game pass is only $6.

I'm not saying MS is foolish or exceedingly generous. They're clearly playing the long game here and will definitely increase the price down the line. However, I find it very hard to believe that they're making money off game pass right now.
How is having multiple promotions any different than any other company that provides a service? They all have work arounds. New emails, different credit cards, etc. It doesn't really matter how long the trial is due to this. Those people that will game the system will continue to exist no matter what. Which is where the argument making them pay for a trial is far better than giving it away for free. People love to say they "gave gears away." But getting a dollar from lets say 200k people is still 200k vs 0 from people abusing free trials.

I think a price increase will likely happen at some point I can agree with that but that being said I doubt Microsoft is paying top dollar for a majority of the game pass library. The titles that are costing them the most are obviously the Day 1 games but those tend to be smaller games or their own first party. But considering how cheap some games get with digital sales, especially in the indie scene, its not hard to see how everyone wins in this situation.

Another metric people really tend to forget is that people do buy games from game pass as well. Which in that case Microsoft basically gets to double dip.
 
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Nikana

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For a while there you could upgrade up to 3 years of Gold to GamePass Ultimate for $1. Plus they've had 12 months half off, 6 months half off, 3 months for $1. It's not just your typical 1 month trial thing.
This was a conversion. You had to already have time banked in either gold or game pass. So its wasn't a dollar. You still had to buy those years of gold or game pass. Yes you got it at a much lower rate than the $15 a month for the regular price. But you still had to buy in. It wasn't just $1.
 

Elenchus

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GAF’s sense of entitlement is what is so amazing.

If I were Phil I would just tell ya it’s none of your business what our numbers are. If and when we raise the price or make some other policy change you don’t like just cancel.

It’s a one month commitment of no more than $10-15. This is not a 3year cell phone contract.

GAF’s faux deep fears about what the Gamepass boogeyman will do to them is beyond silly and all of this “I’m concerned for the consumer” talk is clearly bullshit.

Good on Phil for refusing to feed Sony free market research.

Would you like to know how they’re doing it Sony?

Put some bean counters in a room and figure out how to do it yourself.

Stop sending agenda driven journalist and astroturfing forum posters to demand info they have no right to possess.
 

TBiddy

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Mar 16, 2015
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Phil: XBOX gamepass is doing great, numbers have doubled YOY.....
Phillipine 1 : How many are subscribed to Gamepass Uncle Phil?
Phil: With a Smirk, Can't disclose, you believe in uncle right?
Phillipine 2: Shoves his way through..... I believe you Uncle Phil....
Phillipine 1: But, but, the easiest way to prove such a thing is with numbers....
Phillipine 2 to Phillipine 1: Shhh!, Gamepass is doing great ok......
Phil to Phillipine 2: Datta Boy, you have such promise. I will be sure to send you some merch and loot bags filled with Gamepass Codes and the best MS games this gen.....
Phillipine 2: With the most endearing look ever.....Thanks Uncle Phil.....
Even for you, that's sad. If you honestly believe the head of Xbox is lying about the numbers doubling, you're just as bad as those who think Cerny is lying about HW accellerated RT in the PS5, and I seem to remember you being really angry about that.
 

DaGamez

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I guess people don't realize how quickly the money can add up from a subscription service. Where do you think Netflix gets the cash to burn on Friends, etc. Thay have a lot of customers that pay them billions of dollars a year. Obviously, Gamepass would be smaller, but I'm sure their long-term strategy is to grow (hoping for a high adoption rate among the xbone base, I'm sure).
 

Rolling_Start

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Phil: XBOX gamepass is doing great, numbers have doubled YOY.....
Phillipine 1 : How many are subscribed to Gamepass Uncle Phil?
Phil: With a Smirk, Can't disclose, you believe in uncle right?
Phillipine 2: Shoves his way through..... I believe you Uncle Phil....
Phillipine 1: But, but, the easiest way to prove such a thing is with numbers....
Phillipine 2 to Phillipine 1: Shhh!, Gamepass is doing great ok......
Phil to Phillipine 2: Datta Boy, you have such promise. I will be sure to send you some merch and loot bags filled with Gamepass Codes and the best MS games this gen.....
Phillipine 2: With the most endearing look ever.....Thanks Uncle Phil.....
Yikes.
 

Jigsaah

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Who gives a damn...I'm riding this Gamepass wave as long as I can. It's like they hand out samples at the ice cream shop, but the samples are all full ice cream cones, with caramel topping and the works.

I couldn't give two fucks how much money a damn near trillion dollar company is making. They need to burn some damn money if you ask me.
 

Jigsaah

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New? Where? :D the newest games are Just indi games mainly becouse of id@xbox sector

If Sony can invest to have more games and for more long time and several years before Microsoft (some gamepass games are in for 6 months like "the surge") why Xbox can't afford It?

Sony dosen't make investments with devs for joining the psnow?
Nobody gives a flying fuck about PSNow. Sorry to be blunt, but until they can match the value you get with Gamepass Ultimate...then it's not even a conversation starter.
 
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Jigsaah

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I think the best we can surmise right now is that as far as numbers go. At one point Gamepass was in the millions, dollar subscriptions and all. So if we assume he's telling the truth then it would seem they would still be in the millions. At the very least, it would be 2 million. I doubt it could be higher than 6 million.
 

Otterz4Life

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Bruhs, Netflix has been around for over 20 years and has been a force for 15. The only reason they ever faltered is because content owners pulled their stuff off Netflix... in order to start their own streaming platforms... because it’s so lucrative. Netflix has spent 14 BILLION on content in the last year alone. Wonder where that money came from?

And the price of a Game Pass DOES goes up to $10 per month after the promo period.

Phil is likely telling the truth. Game Pass is probably making a lot of money for them right now. Why address the concern at all if it’s losing money and not retaining subscribers? He’d probably just stay silent. If it were, they’d probably go the PSNow route and ignore it until they quietly kill it. Instead they’re continually adding bangers like Witcher 3, all the Final Fantasy games and Yakuza.
 
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Mochilador

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I find really funny that there are people worried about the Game Pass business. Even when Phil gives a little more insight about it people go like "that's probably a lie, they are losing a fucking ton of money". Feels like you are trying to find something bad about the service.
You are the consumer, just enjoy the games! :lollipop_raising_hand:
 
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GHG

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Bruhs, Netflix has been around for over 20 years and has been a force for 15. The only reason they ever faltered is because content owners pulled their stuff off Netflix... in order to start their own streaming platforms... because it’s so lucrative. Netflix has spent 14 BILLION on content in the last year alone. Wonder where that money came from?
Debt financing:


A key paragraph from the article since it's also relevant here:

The business idea behind the rising cash-flow prospects is that the early cash investments have started a subscriber-attracting flywheel that should pay dividends in the long run. A strong catalog of exclusive content will keep Netflix customers coming back for more, and they're bringing their friends. Rising subscriber numbers and the ability to raise monthly fees from time to time will bring Netflix's cash flow closer to breakeven over the next few years. Extend that trend over many years, and we'll be looking at a global cash machine with several hundred million loyal subscribers -- a growth stock.
I'd recommend reading the full article in all honestly because there are a lot of misconceptions flying around regarding these modern "all you can eat" media subscription models and whether they make money or not. Hint: they don't... For now.
 
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12Dannu123

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Debt financing:


A key paragraph from the article since it's also relevant here:



I'd recommend reading the full article in all honestly because there are a lot of misconceptions flying around regarding these modern "all you can eat" media subscription models and whether they make money or not. Hint: they don't... For now.
Because they are loosing money at the cost for market share. It's a common business tactic.
 
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12Dannu123

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There's so many people who are in denial and lala land about Game Pass that they will twist the truth on anything.

IMO they're clearly fanboys releasing that PSNow is never going to grow big as a service and never will get day 1 releases or newish games.

Game Pass is sustainable for Microsoft as Xbox is not a core business, so they can undermine Sony as much as they want with GP. Sony does not have that luxury, Sony has to keep making PSNow as a profit, as PS is their biggest profit maker but this reduces the quality of content released onto the service and reduces growth.

Like I say all the time. Game Pass WILL dominate Subscription Gaming within Console industry and outside Console via PC and Cloud and Sony seems to have accepted defeat in that market, especially considering that Sony cannot sustain the losses long enough to reach long term profit.
 
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Humdinger

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He's not saying they're making money, which I think is how some people interpreted it. He says, "We’re definitely investing in it, but not investing in a way that’s unsustainable." "Investing" is code for being in the red, or put more bluntly, losing money -- that is, losing money now so they can hopefully make it back later.

And of course they're losing money now. No one can reasonably suppose that GP is a profitable enterprise right now. You've got massive costs of game development and studio acquisition on the one hand, and on the other, the relatively meager revenue from $1 and $5 charges for the service.

It's a long-term investment strategy that involves plenty of upfront loss ("investment"), hopefully compensated later by big revenues. You don't get to big revenues by basically giving the service away for free, though.
 

brokenduck

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I’ll certainly be enjoying while it last. New Flight, AOE4, wasteland 3 is such an awesome line up for me. Would be amazing if they can get baldurs gate 3 up there too, Bring back that golden age of MS in the late 90s while they focus on PC is one of my gaming dream come true.
 

Clear

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There's so many people who are in denial and lala land about Game Pass that they will twist the truth on anything.

IMO they're clearly fanboys releasing that PSNow is never going to grow big as a service and never will get day 1 releases or newish games.

Game Pass is sustainable for Microsoft as Xbox is not a core business, so they can undermine Sony as much as they want with GP. Sony does not have that luxury, Sony has to keep making PSNow as a profit, as PS is their biggest profit maker but this reduces the quality of content released onto the service and reduces growth.

Like I say all the time. Game Pass WILL dominate Subscription Gaming within Console industry and outside Console via PC and Cloud and Sony seems to have accepted defeat in that market, especially considering that Sony cannot sustain the losses long enough to reach long term profit.

They aren't undermining Sony though. They have been starched this gen and the arrival of GamePass hasn't turned their business around. Its still hypothetical, they haven't even reached market yet with their streaming service.

The problem is that most of the content on GamePass isn't exclusive, and as such has to coexist with other monetization streams. Furthermore it means that owners of particularly valuable IP will always be prone to removing their product from the service if it suits their business interests.

Essentially it boils down to content. And *undeniably* of the big 3 Xbox has historically always struggled hardest with creating and sustaining strong IP. " Over the last 2 generations the only AAA IP they have established is Gears, and that's been fading from relevance for years. Ori and Cuphead are not system sellers, and frankly pale into insignificance next to Nintendo's catalog of blue-chip characters.

For all the talk about their recent studio acquisitions, none of them have any valuable IP of their own, so expecting some sort of major turnaround in the near future strikes me as questionable.

It certainly doesn't help their case that Xbox as a brand has always had limited geographic appeal. Asia is an enormous potential market and again, their competitors or way ahead of them in terms of establishing a foothold.
 

Lone Wolf

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They aren't undermining Sony though. They have been starched this gen and the arrival of GamePass hasn't turned their business around. Its still hypothetical, they haven't even reached market yet with their streaming service.

The problem is that most of the content on GamePass isn't exclusive, and as such has to coexist with other monetization streams. Furthermore it means that owners of particularly valuable IP will always be prone to removing their product from the service if it suits their business interests.

Essentially it boils down to content. And *undeniably* of the big 3 Xbox has historically always struggled hardest with creating and sustaining strong IP. " Over the last 2 generations the only AAA IP they have established is Gears, and that's been fading from relevance for years. Ori and Cuphead are not system sellers, and frankly pale into insignificance next to Nintendo's catalog of blue-chip characters.

For all the talk about their recent studio acquisitions, none of them have any valuable IP of their own, so expecting some sort of major turnaround in the near future strikes me as questionable.

It certainly doesn't help their case that Xbox as a brand has always had limited geographic appeal. Asia is an enormous potential market and again, their competitors or way ahead of them in terms of establishing a foothold.
New IP is always welcome, and MS is sitting on a ton of dormant IP. Hopefully we see some of them come back.
 

Max_Po

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New IP is always welcome, and MS is sitting on a ton of dormant IP. Hopefully we see some of them come back.

NO they aren't.... what da_Faq are you talking about ? They killed Halo, PGR is on shelf, and they are braging about Halo Infinite.

On the other hand, they do have Gears and Forza which are their top offerings ... while Halo is being cooked.

It took them 5 years to fix Halo MCC.
 
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DaGamez

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^ They had a lot of original IPs on the OG Xbox, they didn't make the top sales lists because MS share was so small.

Where they've struggled the most is overusing their top IPs. Should have limited Halo and Gears to just one outing per generation, maybe two. Let the The Coalition work on a different 3rd person shooter for example, with a different setting and a few new quirks.
 

12Dannu123

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They aren't undermining Sony though. They have been starched this gen and the arrival of GamePass hasn't turned their business around. Its still hypothetical, they haven't even reached market yet with their streaming service.

The problem is that most of the content on GamePass isn't exclusive, and as such has to coexist with other monetization streams. Furthermore it means that owners of particularly valuable IP will always be prone to removing their product from the service if it suits their business interests.

Essentially it boils down to content. And *undeniably* of the big 3 Xbox has historically always struggled hardest with creating and sustaining strong IP. " Over the last 2 generations the only AAA IP they have established is Gears, and that's been fading from relevance for years. Ori and Cuphead are not system sellers, and frankly pale into insignificance next to Nintendo's catalog of blue-chip characters.

For all the talk about their recent studio acquisitions, none of them have any valuable IP of their own, so expecting some sort of major turnaround in the near future strikes me as questionable.

It certainly doesn't help their case that Xbox as a brand has always had limited geographic appeal. Asia is an enormous potential market and again, their competitors or way ahead of them in terms of establishing a foothold.
No one expected quality titles in the near term. So MS is filling the gap for now with Third Party deals. I expect MS will catch up to Sony, Nintendo level quality than Sony and Nintendo catching up to MS on Subscription Gaming and sustaining it.

Sorry but sustaining this Netflix-like business model is a lot harder than improving your 1st Quality games. Especially since acquisitions of quality studios is a shortcut.

Heck Sony can't even keep maintain the output keep users subscribed despite cutting the price. When PS Now price was cut, Sony also cut the amount of games released to PS Now. Whereas when GP price was cut, MS still maintained and even improve the amount of games released on the service.
 
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Lone Wolf

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NO they aren't.... what da_Faq are you talking about ? They killed Halo, PGR is on shelf, and they are braging about Halo Infinite.

On the other hand, they do have Gears and Forza which are their top offerings ... while Halo is being cooked.

It took them 5 years to fix Halo MCC.
Your response doesn’t match what I stated.
 

GHG

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Because they are loosing money at the cost for market share. It's a common business tactic.
Don't disagree and I've said as much before. It's the people who somehow think these business models are profitable now who are missing the point.

People expecting PlayStation to go toe to to with the likes of Microsoft on something like this are delusional, they simply cannot afford to (their overall business portfolio isn't diverse enough sustain something like that) and they aren't likely to be willing to (Japanese companies are historically debt adverse, although this is now slowly changing).

The likes of Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, Google and even Valve or Epic can afford to go down this road and experiment for a few years without the risk of it taking them under. The likes of Sony and Nintendo can't, hence they are continuing to bet on the traditional market until the initial rat race is over and the dust settles.
 

Chromata

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How is having multiple promotions any different than any other company that provides a service? They all have work arounds. New emails, different credit cards, etc. It doesn't really matter how long the trial is due to this. Those people that will game the system will continue to exist no matter what. Which is where the argument making them pay for a trial is far better than giving it away for free. People love to say they "gave gears away." But getting a dollar from lets say 200k people is still 200k vs 0 from people abusing free trials.

I think a price increase will likely happen at some point I can agree with that but that being said I doubt Microsoft is paying top dollar for a majority of the game pass library. The titles that are costing them the most are obviously the Day 1 games but those tend to be smaller games or their own first party. But considering how cheap some games get with digital sales, especially in the indie scene, its not hard to see how everyone wins in this situation.

Another metric people really tend to forget is that people do buy games from game pass as well. Which in that case Microsoft basically gets to double dip.
It isn't any different from another company running a trial. My point is that Game Pass is an extraordinarily good deal. That's why many people say MS are "giving it away". It isn't really a devaluation of gears, at least I wouldn't think so.

Many of the games available on game pass are sold elsewhere for magnitudes in price. There's no way Microsoft is getting them for cheap and making up for it with $6 or even $1 in revenue.

I agree with your last point, I am guilty of that myself. Although I don't see why you would purchase the game rather than continue with game pass, unless nothing else on game pass is/will interest you. Gears 5 alone costs more than a years worth of PC game pass in Canada.
 

12Dannu123

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Don't disagree and I've said as much before. It's the people who somehow think these business models are profitable now who are missing the point.

People expecting PlayStation to go toe to to with the likes of Microsoft on something like this are delusional, they simply cannot afford to (their overall business portfolio isn't diverse enough sustain something like that) and they aren't likely to be willing to (Japanese companies are historically debt adverse, although this is now slowly changing).

The likes of Microsoft, EA, Ubisoft, Google and even Valve or Epic can afford to go down this road and experiment for a few years without the risk of it taking them under. The likes of Sony and Nintendo can't, hence they are continuing to bet on the traditional market until the initial rat race is over and the dust settles.
I don't think EA and Ubisoft can afford to go this route. Though I think since they are big publishers, they can maybe go down the route for a while, but it'll be hard to sustain it, especially since EA, Ubisoft etc are quite small companies.

But I do agree with you that Sony and Nintendo not being able to compete directly or sustain such a service. They are simply not large enough to absorb the losses, especially since Gaming is their core businesses. Disney is taking massive losses ever year for Disney+, how on earth can Sony and Nintendo sustain that.
 
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Because it's about their end game. Which is getting people to subscribe and continually raise prices to find the point where they won't bother unsubscribing. That's what subscription based services do.

Reeeeelax, your high blood pressure is raising, watch your health..calm down former 2nd Battalion Sony soldier🤭..you're 40, pick up you grandkids/nephews from school or something.

GP it's not for you, we get it..but we're gonna be ok with or without you..trus. Service is a Godsend and its only going to get better. My deep pockets are ready to pay whatever, so what now, what you going to do, huh? Nobody's stopping this Express VIP train all the way to the next gen!! Nnnnneeeexxxt!!!
 

Heinrich

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Phil: XBOX gamepass is doing great, numbers have doubled YOY.....
Phillipine 1 : How many are subscribed to Gamepass Uncle Phil?
Phil: With a Smirk, Can't disclose, you believe in uncle right?
Phillipine 2: Shoves his way through..... I believe you Uncle Phil....
Phillipine 1: But, but, the easiest way to prove such a thing is with numbers....
Phillipine 2 to Phillipine 1: Shhh!, Gamepass is doing great ok......
Phil to Phillipine 2: Datta Boy, you have such promise. I will be sure to send you some merch and loot bags filled with Gamepass Codes and the best MS games this gen.....
Phillipine 2: With the most endearing look ever.....Thanks Uncle Phil.....
i wish I had so much time to come up with crap like this
 

10000

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Jun 30, 2019
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Why are people continuing to be so dense when it comes to game pass? "giving it away" is the most disingenuous comment on this forum. Again, this isn't hard by any means. Any service has a trial and a lot of them don't even charge for it. Yet these companies aren't "giving it away." So why are people so adamant and pushing this narrative when it comes to Game Pass?
because this whole practice looks unhealthy and predatory in the long run

I don't mind if this become one of the options of gaming, but if this model eat up the majority of marketshare, slaughtering healthy competitions and game ownership with loss leadership like this then encouraging developers to create terrible game designs based on this model then it's a big no
 

Panajev2001a

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It'll work the way any game that has a revenue stream after the initial sale does now and Microsoft doesn't have to be Nostradamus to predict that more games are going to use that model going forward.

"This game only cost me a dollar, I don't mind spending $10 on this virtual item to make my character look slightly different."
That would be even worse, please raise the price of GamePass instead. Not only it would a move away from game ownership into rental, but now you also get the lively predatory F2P model where the game sees you as a dancing wallet ready for the picking? Yikes 😱
 

phil_t98

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Phil: XBOX gamepass is doing great, numbers have doubled YOY.....
Phillipine 1 : How many are subscribed to Gamepass Uncle Phil?
Phil: With a Smirk, Can't disclose, you believe in uncle right?
Phillipine 2: Shoves his way through..... I believe you Uncle Phil....
Phillipine 1: But, but, the easiest way to prove such a thing is with numbers....
Phillipine 2 to Phillipine 1: Shhh!, Gamepass is doing great ok......
Phil to Phillipine 2: Datta Boy, you have such promise. I will be sure to send you some merch and loot bags filled with Gamepass Codes and the best MS games this gen.....
Phillipine 2: With the most endearing look ever.....Thanks Uncle Phil.....
your post are getting worse and worse, you have gone from trying to show facts about games that are slanted towards PS4 to plain trolling
 

Heinrich

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Nov 26, 2016
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because this whole practice looks unhealthy and predatory in the long run

I don't mind if this become one of the options of gaming, but if this model eat up the majority of marketshare, slaughtering healthy competitions and game ownership with loss leadership like this then encouraging developers to create terrible game designs based on this model then it's a big no
Are you the scorsese of video gaming? Lol

what a load of bullshit. This will never happen. Also, games will also be sold. Even today there are still Cinemas and blu rays. Stop with this bullshit.

why did no one say anything when SONY introduced PSnow? Because it’s from Sony so it’s ok? Or why?
 
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GHG

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I don't think EA and Ubisoft can afford to go this route. Though I think since they are big publishers, they can maybe go down the route for a while, but it'll be hard to sustain it, especially since EA, Ubisoft etc are quite small companies.

But I do agree with you that Sony and Nintendo not being able to compete directly or sustain such a service. They are simply not large enough to absorb the losses, especially since Gaming is their core businesses. Disney is taking massive losses ever year for Disney+, how on earth can Sony and Nintendo sustain that.
EA are already doing it on the PC and have been for a while. Their €3.99 package is arguably better value than PC gamepass due to the breadth of 3rd party games available. However you need to step up to the more expensive package if you want new EA games day one with DLC without the 6-12 month delay.

With Ubisoft, Ubisoft Plus is exclusively Ubisoft games AFAIK but it still features over 100 games and all of their new games with DLC day one.

Disney+ just launched did it not? Prior to that they had their stuff on other subscription services as a 3rd party. I think that's where we will get to eventually with gaming sub services as well once things mature. 3rd party publishers will go off on their own and create their own subscription services for their own games, creating fragmentation in the market. To a certain degree we have seen it already happen as far as PC storefronts go over the last 3-5 years where as digital has matured publishers have decided to stop being reliant on Steam and go out on their own.

Don't be surprised if by the end of the upcoming generation people will need to spend upwards of $50 a month across multiple subs from various publishers if they want access to everything on offer.

That's the main reason Microsoft have invested so heavily in acquiring new studios recently, the battle for subscription services will be fought on the quality of first party content that you can guarantee will be exclusive to your service.
 
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FranXico

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In this same article it just said they are not trying to raise prices. Also why do care. Enjoy the games. If Sony did the same thing no one would complain or question them.
Sony already did the same thing (experimenting with pricing) with PSNow and people did complain and vote with their wallet.
 

Lort

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Netflix spends 14 billion a year on content and has 160 million subscribers.
Fortnite has 100 million users ...

Microsoft is in the right place to scale xcloud ALL the way up and all the nay sayers are saying exactly what they said about Netflix ... content isn’t good enough and they can’t afford to run a business like that.

Let the man do his job and give the gamers subscription gaming lol.

why do u ever care honestly?Are you a MS stockholder, if u are and don’t want to be, sell and move on with your life.
 
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10000

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Are you the scorsese of video gaming? Lol

what a load of bullshit. This will never happen. Also, games will also be sold. Even today there are still Cinemas and blu rays. Stop with this bullshit.

why did no one say anything when SONY introduced PSnow? Because it’s from Sony so it’s ok? Or why?
and who are you, trump of video gaming? lol

how could you be so sure when you are comparing two different industry with two different nature, then calling any notion whom you disagree with a bullshit.

its not about a sony or microsoft or google or nintendo for me, and psnow didn't introduce predatory practice like 1$ or throwing newly released exclusive into the 1$ subscription,
 

GHG

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Are you the scorsese of video gaming? Lol

what a load of bullshit. This will never happen. Also, games will also be sold. Even today there are still Cinemas and blu rays. Stop with this bullshit.

why did no one say anything when SONY introduced PSnow? Because it’s from Sony so it’s ok? Or why?
To a certain extent EA are already chasing the business model he describes. It can be argued that EA access is basically the gateway to their gaming casino these days. Yes, the lootboxes and microtransactions were already around prior to the subscription services popping up but the initial low price of entry and aggressive in-game advertising/strategies that push players towards spending more money would suggest it's definitely a way they see it making up the shortfall in the long run.

You should read the following article:


...

As a result, SuperData has found gamers who subscribe to services like PS Now, Game Pass, and Origin Access are much more likely to buy new games as well as spend on microtransactions.

"SuperData estimates that subscribers spend 45% more for games upfront than non-subscribers, and twice as much on in-game content when compared to non-subscribers. Cosmetics, Season Passes, and Battle Passes are the most popular in-game purchases among subscribers," the company wrote in its latest report.

This is fully by design and these online services have been specifically tuned to organically feed into one another in a synergistic mutualism of revenue generation. Each facet is just part of the whole that work in tandem with one another to keep players playing and paying over periods of time, and even if subscriptions lapse, full game sales may increase.

...




and who are you, trump of video gaming? lol

how could you be so sure when you are comparing two different industry with two different nature, then calling any notion whom you disagree with a bullshit.

its not about a sony or microsoft or google or nintendo for me, and psnow didn't introduce predatory practice like 1$ or throwing newly released exclusive into the 1$ subscription,
Predatory is the wrong word here.

Aggressive? Yes, absolutely.

Predatory? No.
 
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12Dannu123

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Sep 23, 2016
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Netflix spends 14 billion a year on content and has 160 million subscribers.
Fortnite has 100 million users ...

Microsoft is in the right place to scale xcloud ALL the way up and all the nay sayers are saying exactly what they said about Netflix ... content isn’t good enough and they can’t afford to run a business like that.

Let the man do his job and give the gamers subscription gaming lol.

why do u ever care honestly?Are you a MS stockholder, if u are and don’t want to be, sell and move on with your life.
Most of the naysayers are fanboys refusing to accept that Game Pass is a potentially disruptive business model to the gaming industry.
 
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CeeJay

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Mar 9, 2014
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because this whole practice looks unhealthy and predatory in the long run

I don't mind if this become one of the options of gaming, but if this model eat up the majority of marketshare, slaughtering healthy competitions and game ownership with loss leadership like this then encouraging developers to create terrible game designs based on this model then it's a big no
You do realise that developers / publishers get royalties on how much their games are played on Gamepass don't you? If a developer decides to create some low grade shovelware and try to throw it on Gamepass then a couple of things will come into play to discourage that. Firstly Microsoft are curating the games on there and can turn down any really shit games from appearing, secondly a bad game on there will not get played so won't make any royalties for the developer. If anything the model encourages developers to create really interesting and good quality playable games. What I think Gamepass does give better opportunities for that normal distribution channels do not are titles that are maybe a little bit more risky or shorter in length, think along the lines of an animated short bundled in with a full length DVD. If I am paying full price for a game then I want a certain amount of longevity and value for money but if I am playing games on Gamepass then it's actually more appealing to me to play lots of shorter games that I can start, finish and move on from in a short space of time. Gamepass when looked at like this could actually increase creativity and promote new and unique experiences where developers do not need to worry about how many copies they sell but more about how many total hours of gameplay their games clock up. If one of these short "pilot" games gets a lot of praise they can if they wish go on and create a full fledged version which they can sell at full price that will already have good word of mouth and customers ready to buy it.
 
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Jan 29, 2019
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'positive Xbox news'
This is not news, this is Phil giving us the spin in their loss leader model for game pass.
Either that or a price rise will come later down the line once they believe they've cornered the market enough and have people hooked.
Just look at Netflix the base price doubled in a few years, they offer two more tiers...
why did no one say anything when SONY introduced PSnow? Because it’s from Sony so it’s ok? Or w
I can't recall Sony pushing that hard.

In the long run, how would games on such a service be so different tan phone games in their approach to extra monetization?

How much revenue will developers really get from releasing their games on this? If you're a parent this is akin to rental back then, a couple of dollars a month and your kid has access to more games.

But at the same time it ties you harder to their ecosystem, on PC at least.

Obviously, if I want to play gears in the short term I would spend $1 and play a bit and cancel... Because the service costs around the same as what I plan to spend on games in the next 12 months or so (not much time for gaming, no time to waste on shovel ware, because of the kids).

why did no one say anything when SONY introduced PSnow? Because it’s from Sony so it’s ok? Or w
How about we can't have a thread without some bot telling us how great it is, acting as if MS invented the idea of such a service (they have existed for about as long as high speed internet on PC).

And many of us just want to cure our own libraries for ourselves and have some level of ownership one either the service doesn't exist (let's say you want to play some old xbox game that was made by some publisher who doesn't do business with Microsoft anymore. It will force me to register for the other service, and it's not long that you spend 100$ a month on such services to access all games (assuming everyone moves to that kind of service).
 
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