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Opinion Business Game Dev Phil Spencer: Xbox Game Pass isn’t “burning money to gain customers”

Jan 29, 2019
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So in other words you have no genuine interest in the topic and were just feeling lonely?

Well that’s all you had to say my man. We’re here for you...carry on...
I gave my opinion on it, so I have an interest in the topic.... does it displease you? I really don't see what upsets you in my take on the matter
 

Jigsaah

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Jan 31, 2018
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I don't understand the point of debating whether it's true or not. Neither side can confirm anything. I do kinda wonder what Microsoft does discuss at these shareholder meetings though. They have to somehow keep the support of their investors somehow. Oh wait I forgot, Microsoft doesn't just have it's console business....
 

Elenchus

Member
Jun 27, 2018
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I gave my opinion on it, so I have an interest in the topic.... does it displease you? I really don't see what upsets you in my take on the matter
You mistake my previous confusion for anger. No worries though. I think we’re all clear on who you are now. As I said...carry on...
 
Jan 29, 2019
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You mistake my previous confusion for anger. No worries though. I think we’re all clear on who you are now. As I said...carry on...
So who am I? I don't get your "accusations"... like what have I done?

I didn't think you were upset, but who are you to tell people where they can and can't comment?
 

12Dannu123

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Sep 23, 2016
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I don't understand the point of debating whether it's true or not. Neither side can confirm anything. I do kinda wonder what Microsoft does discuss at these shareholder meetings though. They have to somehow keep the support of their investors somehow. Oh wait I forgot, Microsoft doesn't just have it's console business....
Their investors expect Xbox to expand into Cloud Gaming, especially as Microsoft has a big profile in the Internet world just like Amazon and Google and investors consider it as their next growth opportunity especially with 5G becoming mainstream very soon.

Sony investors are not so growth oriented, they prefer Sony to keep with traditional gaming as they know that Sony has no advantage there regarding internet presance or partnerships/distribution to have OEMs install their services.

Partnerships and Internet Pressence are Extremely important to gain a good foothold in Cloud Gaming. Sony has none of those, thats why Sony investors were spooked about Cloud Gaming
 
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Nydus

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May 6, 2014
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I pay the 4€ a month (as do all my friends) Never bothered with this 1€ trick. I even think it's great value for 10€ a month. I'm much more likely to kill my psplus sub. I don't care for the console games, I don't play multiplayer on console and i only use it for the cloudsave. And even those seem more and more useless to me.
 

bellome

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May 5, 2017
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Halo Infinity and Hellblade 2 aren’t AAA?
I would not say Hellblade2 is a AAA game, we'll see we don't now at this point in time.

Halo will obviously be a massive game.

Anyway the point they both are cross gen titles with all the limitations of the case.
 

mckmas8808

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May 24, 2005
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Oh come on guys, if the first month for $1 was the only promotion they've had it'd be a fair comment to say its business as usual for a service, but they've been offering way more than that in order to beef up their numbers on a regular basis,
Exactly! We all know this. Lets not be stupid here.
 

Pallas

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May 9, 2018
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I would not say Hellblade2 is a AAA game, we'll see we don't now at this point in time.

Halo will obviously be a massive game.

Anyway the point they both are cross gen titles with all the limitations of the case.
Hellblade 2 iirc has not been confirmed as a cross gen title. At least in its demonstration it was quoted to be using the power of series X.
If it’s been mention as cross platform I’d like to read it.
 

mckmas8808

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May 24, 2005
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That's like saying Netflix boosts their numbers because they have free trials.
Ummmm......that would be boosting the numbers or cooking the books for Netflix too. Not sure why you think I have an issue with this though. I don't. Especially if a company is trying to grow a new service. Just don't lie to us and say MS isn't burning money to gain customers.
 

Nikana

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Jan 26, 2016
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Ummmm......that would be boosting the numbers or cooking the books for Netflix too. Not sure why you think I have an issue with this though. I don't. Especially if a company is trying to grow a new service. Just don't lie to us and say MS isn't burning money to gain customers.
If you dont have an "issue" then why bring it up? Just because they are using a trial period doesn't mean they are burning money.
 

mckmas8808

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May 24, 2005
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If you dont have an "issue" then why bring it up? Just because they are using a trial period doesn't mean they are burning money.
The trial period was $1 yo. Like come on. They burning through money. But that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
 

mckmas8808

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May 24, 2005
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Burn rate from a free trial doesn't indicate an overall burn rate of a company. Like come on.
For the Xbox division, it does. Again, it's okay that this is happening. If gamers really like Gamepass like they say then they'll keep it once they have to pay $10 or $15 a month.
 
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Nikana

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Jan 26, 2016
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For the Xbox division, it does. Again, it's okay that this is happening. If gamers really like Gamepass like they say then they'll keep it once they have to pay $10 or $15 a month.
No it doesn't. There's zero proof to indicate it has a high burn rate or a burn rate at all. If that was the case anything with a trial period would be burning money.

No one is arguing if it's "okay." So why you keep saying that I don't know?
 
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Smoke6

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Nov 26, 2017
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Daniels was banned.

On topic, the people still crying foul play are getting tiresome. This really isn't that hard to understand and I don't know why people are running around with their fingers in their ears. Its not crazy to see how they are at the very least breaking even at this point.
Please explain how so? I been waiting for a good answer to this question without the trolling or flame war replies.

I feel like everyone else that this was a desperate tactic to get a handle on this generation and it’s costing them somewhere down the line and hurting!

If it takes games like gears $60-70+ millions to make, and you have to sell X amount of copies just to break even with the marketing and all that as well, then what are the SOLD number compared to the GAMEPASS numbers?

GAMEPASS is a few dollars with those deals a month for a wide variety of games not just one title so at the very least most of those games budgets were on the millions range and sold numbers have never been reported ever since GAMEPASS launched.

Not trolling or anything I genuinely want to know.
 

Smoke6

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Nov 26, 2017
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Yeah. Its gonna be funny to watch how Sony fans act when Sony starts doing it next gen. Guaranteed the narrative will change substantially. And Microsoft can afford to do it ten times over than any of their competitors without question.
Not gonna happen!

Sony just released its attach rate numbers and its 11 games for every console sold! Not rented on a service for a buck!

The reality is that this model is unsustainable as the developers are basically recouping their losses with maybe a little profit to keep working on games for them when Sony’s console is actually SELLING copies!
 

Gavon West

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Jan 12, 2018
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Not gonna happen!

Sony just released its attach rate numbers and its 11 games for every console sold! Not rented on a service for a buck!

The reality is that this model is unsustainable as the developers are basically recouping their losses with maybe a little profit to keep working on games for them when Sony’s console is actually SELLING copies!
STFU. Phil has already said GP is a success. Do you realize how many companies have adopted this model?? There's a reason why its doing well. I won't sit here and say how well its doing for them. I don't know. But clearly its doing well or they wouldn't continue to invest. Make my words: Sony will do the same in time, just like their putting their game on PC. Sony fanboys also said that wouldn't happen. Look where we are now.
 

12Dannu123

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Sep 23, 2016
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Not gonna happen!

Sony just released its attach rate numbers and its 11 games for every console sold! Not rented on a service for a buck!

The reality is that this model is unsustainable as the developers are basically recouping their losses with maybe a little profit to keep working on games for them when Sony’s console is actually SELLING copies!
This makes no sense. There's a big reason why developers are ignoring PS ecosystem when releasing games on a subscription service, and the reason is that developers don't know if their game will do well in a sea of other games. Going the Game Pass route gives them security and also exposure to the game. Something Sony does not offer and likely doesn't plan to offer.

Sony simply hates indie/small developers so developers will ignore PS Now.
 
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Oct 26, 2018
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If anyone is still interested in Gamepass Ultimate for $1, it seems to be still going. Buy Gold and top it up with Ultimate for $1.

Looks like MS will ride this out all the way to the launch of Series X to build up a base of gamers
 

DrAspirino

Neo Member
Nov 19, 2018
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Not sure.

Up until last year Game Pass PC was 1 dollar a month the first one and then 3.99.

For the price of one single game bought at launch, you get a year of Game Pass.

Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies? Seriously i don't see how that can be profitable unless they start increasing the price. Or maybe there's something else we don't know: like they sell data gathered from Game Pass.
I think that's the catch. Both PS4 and Xbox One send data about every single thing you do on the consoles: what games you play, at what time you play, what games you own, how much do you play, your internet speed, your geographical location, your tv resolution, and even the demographics. All that data is far more valuable than any price Microsoft or Sony would charge for their service, and boy do they use it!

Why do you think Google is pushing Stadia (instead of letting it die), Apple is doing something similar to GamePass, and Sony signing an agreement with Microsoft so they could better use all that data?

And that's one of the reasons those companies are pushing gaming in the cloud so hard.
 
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Kagey K

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Dec 18, 2013
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Help me understand here - when a company charges too much people complain , but now we’re complaining that they’re charging to little ? :messenger_neutral:
I can assure you most of the people complaining aren’t subscribers or even using the $1.00 trial.

It’s nice to see how everyone is more concerned about MS bank account then their own.
 
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Sussoloc

Neo Member
Jan 2, 2020
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Help me understand here - when a company charges too much people complain , but now we’re complaining that they’re charging to little ? :messenger_neutral:
Customers don't complain, just people that will never be customers, because they are married to another brand.
 

Kagey K

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Dec 18, 2013
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Customers don't complain, just people that will never be customers, because they are married to another brand.
I always berate hot chicks because my wife doesn’t look like them.

If I can’t have sex with them, they need to know how terrible they are.
 

sunnysideup

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Nov 11, 2018
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I can play maybe 1 or 2 games a month. Why on earth would i sign up to an subscribtion service.

Games are ditt cheap and take forever to complete.

Subscribtion services only make sense for teens or unemployed.
 
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Kagey K

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Dec 18, 2013
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I can play maybe 1 or 2 games a month. Why on earth would i sign up to an subscribtion service.

Games are ditt cheap and take forever to complete.

Subscribtion services only make sense for teens or unemployed.
Well that’s a take. It’s not a good one, but it’s one I haven’t seen before.

According to this.

I played 802 games in the last 10 years and if I had bought them all at full retail price it would have cost me $28577.00

Had I played them all through Game Pass ultimate it would have cost me 7800.00 1800.00 (I fucked up the math and was corrected)

That seems like a significant change in price even for the employed and non teen gamer.

Edited for mistakes.
 
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Sussoloc

Neo Member
Jan 2, 2020
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I can play maybe 1 or 2 games a month. Why on earth would i sign up to an subscribtion service.

Games are ditt cheap and take forever to complete.

Subscribtion services only make sense for teens or unemployed.
Actually Game Pass Ultimate is a no-brainer even if play just 1 game per month. You could easily buy 36 months for under 100 bucks which is 1,5 full price games. Game Pass Ultimate includes crossbuy with pc, Xbox Live Gold and xCloud will also be included.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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Mar 3, 2018
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How is this positive Xbox news? Is Phil Spencer talking in circles without any actual data, positive Xbox news now? If so, there is always non-stop positive Xbox news.

This is just more, "we can't give out real numbers for blah blah blah reasons, so let's just say we're doing good. Please believe us (our business depends on it)."
That's not how reality works with a publicly traded company, they can't mislead the public and shareholders. If they say they're not burning money then they're not burning money.
 

Kagey K

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Dec 18, 2013
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15 * 12 * 10 = 1800
Lol I fucked that up and fat fingered the calculator somehow. That’s even more significant.

For sure only the unemployed and teens would use it.

Edit on my behalf I went and looked and apparently I didn’t clear an old calculation out so it was all added on to that one. ☺
 
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DynamiteCop!

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Lol I fucked that up and fat fingered the calculator somehow. That’s even more significant.

For sure only the unemployed and teens would use it.

Edit on my behalf I went and looked and apparently I didn’t clear an old calculation out so it was all added on to that one. ☺
That's the price of 30 games over 10 years, which isn't a lot. I have 74 physical games for my Xbox One. GamePass is a game changer.
 

Kagey K

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Dec 18, 2013
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That's the price of 30 games over 10 years, which isn't a lot. I have 74 physical games for my Xbox One. GamePass is a game changer.
I know I was arguing it was a deal, but fucked up the math. Scroll up to post 338 to see how it came about.
 
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VertigoOA

...thinks mods should get a real job.
Jan 15, 2018
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PSnow is the drizzling shits compared to gamespass.

Gamespass is great. Buy hardware. Subscribe... new games and older titles enhanced for modern hardware.

You could get an X, subscribe to gamespass and never have to buy a game the entire generation and still have a huge backlog of some of best games available.
 
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Sw0pDiller

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Jan 8, 2018
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I feel it would be a very consumer friendly move to introduce two new subscriptions for the plus of gold subscriptions.

One for online only play for about 29 euro/dollar a year.

One for de gold/plus sub as exist today. For about 59 a year

One premium with an included GP/NOW for 99 or so a year.

I expect that most people will go for the 29 version.
 

sunnysideup

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Nov 11, 2018
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I never pay more than 20 bucks for my games, most of the time its closer to 10. And i buy physical releases new. Probably even cheaper if you buy digital with game keys and such. And i much rather choose freely what game i want to play rather than being locked in a subscribtion games list.

Games are really dirt cheap and plentiful. The main issue is time. I dont have time to play games.