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LTTP Playing Super Mario Sunshine is like pulling teeth.

Cutty Flam

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I intend on 100% completing Super Mario Sunshine eventually, without a guide this time around. Because when I was a kid, I was on the hunt for the very last blue coin needed to earn the last shine sprite to make it 100% but my Gamecube memory card corrupted for some reason. I’ll never forget it, I spent like three hours in total over the span of two or three days searching all the levels everywhere and then later that week the save file is dust

Man there was one oldschool level where F.L.U.D.D. was taken away by Shadow Mario and I just couldn’t believe how difficult it was. I slammed my wavebird controller by the grip handle into my quad with rage like six times that day. Testament to how well built those things were, but Sunshine has some levels where your palms are probably going to get sweaty. You really have to bring your best with this game at times. Nintendo needs to go back to creating games with this level of difficulty in their Mario games

The blue coins are an amazing part of the game too. One of the things I look forward to the most is actually going after the blue coins again
 
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Blue coins are optional. I am tired of this compliant.

I will never understand the people who complain about blue coins and korok seeds.

These things are clearly meant to be a source of general discovery and incentive to explore every weird corner of the terrain, but absolutely are not meant to be a completable "quest" of some sort. They made this clear in Sunshine by (rightly) giving you absolutely nothing for finding them all, and in BOTW they even made this a bit of a joke with a meaningless gift from the Korok to any chump who actually thought finding them all was a good idea.
 
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MrMephistoX

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If it didn't have Mario in it, it would be sitting just below I-Ninja and Billy Hatcher and just above Tork and Malice in the Hall of Forgotten Sixth-gen Platformers.
Would agree if it were anyone but Nintendo: they typically do well introducing new IP and extending it in Smash and other franchises. I’m still in the camp they should have kept RARE since they were masters of filling in the catalogue during Nintendo’s software droughts.
 

Punished Miku

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I will never understand the people who complain about blue coins and korok seeds.

These things are clearly meant to be a source of general discovery and incentive to explore every weird corner of the terrain, but absolutely are not meant to be a completable "quest" of some sort. They made this clear in Sunshine by (rightly) giving you absolutely nothing for finding them all, and in BOTW they even made this a bit of a joke with a meaningless gift from the Korok to any chump who actually thought finding them all was a good idea.
They're basically difficult stars without a hint. If you don't enjoy getting them, it's true that they can be skipped, but they're a good source of motivation for exploration / platforming. The Korok Seeds are on an entirely different level and truly are meant to be skipped.

Personally, I think every 3D Mario is intended to be maxed out by the hardcore fans. Even if the reward is minimal, they usually acknowledge it slightly.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

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I intend on 100% completing Super Mario Sunshine eventually, without a guide this time around. Because when I was a kid, I was on the hunt for the very last blue coin needed to earn the last shine sprite to make it 100% but my Gamecube memory card corrupted for some reason. I’ll never forget it, I spent like three hours in total over the span of two or three days searching all the levels everywhere and then later that week the save file is dust

The blue coins are an amazing part of the game too. One of the things I look forward to the most is actually going after the blue coins again
Your memory card was trying to tell you something. So many years later, you still haven’t taken the hint.



I will never understand the people who complain about blue coins and korok seeds.

These things are clearly meant to be a source of general discovery and incentive to explore every weird corner of the terrain, but absolutely are not meant to be a completable "quest" of some sort. They made this clear in Sunshine by (rightly) giving you absolutely nothing for finding them all, and in BOTW they even made this a bit of a joke with a meaningless gift from the Korok to any chump who actually thought finding them all was a good idea.
Korok seeds have hints pointing at them, and there’s and item that helps you find them. They also require you to actually do something to earn them, except for those that just require you to lift a rock.


Blue coins are completely. fucking. random. They’re there just... because. Spray a random wheel, out pops a blue coin! Why? Because!
 
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Cutty Flam

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Your memory card was trying to tell you something
Second playthrough

Arnold Schwarzenegger Reaction GIF
 
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Korok seeds have hints pointing at them, and there’s and item that helps you find them. They also require you to actually do something to earn them, except for those that just require you to lift a rock.


Blue coins are completely. fucking. random. They’re there just... because. Spray a random wheel, out pops a blue coin! Why? Because!

Blue coins are hidden everywhere so that you can get a little reward for just trying to shoot something you see or for jumping to a difficult-to-reach spot. They encourage playing around with each level instead of rushing to the goal, and that's all they were ever meant to do. The Korok seeds have a very similar function, and make it so that paying attention to your surroundings will give you a little surprise and benefit.

I like both, because I love games that encourage surprise and play over objectives or missions. And I would prefer that they go even a step further and prevent you from seeing your totals in any way, so that it would become impossible to treat it as a completion thing. Completionism is the enemy of these games.
 
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rogr rogr

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If by that you mean a highly satisfying activity... Yes, OP, I agree with you.


Also, I'm a dentist 😉
 
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daTRUballin

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Bash the game itself all you want, but I will not hear any bashing of its amazing soundtrack. Seriously, I don't care what anyone says. I absolutely LOVE the soundtrack. Definitely underrated IMO.

Perhaps people expect something more "epic" from a Mario game, but I really love the calming tropical feeling to a lot of the songs. Tracks like Sky & Sea, Noki Bay, Hotel Delfino, etc.
 
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Bash the game itself all you want, but I will not hear any bashing of its amazing soundtrack. Seriously, I don't care what anyone says. I absolutely LOVE the soundtrack. Definitely underrated IMO.

Perhaps people expect something more "epic" from a Mario game, but I really love the calming tropical feeling to a lot of the songs. Tracks like Sky & Sea, Noki Bay, Hotel Delfino, etc.

 

boutrosinit

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I have never played through this game before, but everything about it is touched with frustration. The frustration seems to be built in to the game design itself. Just from the first level:

- Look for Blue coins.
-Because you can’t angle the camera up, watch the shadow of the pirhana plant and then shoot it down. This is a recurrent source of annoyance.
-Constantly attack you with minor enemies while you try to perform a basic task.
-Spend a few minutes spraying Metal Mario as he runs pointlessly around.
-The cloud that waits for you to land on a high up platform and then knocks you off, forcing you to repeat the climb again.
- Jumping OUT of the dirty lake is needlessly annoying.
-What were they thinking making the bonus stages so difficult ON THE FIRST LEVEL?

I have to force myself to play this. When I finally accomplish something difficult, I don’t feel satisfaction, but annoyance toward the designer. I am a huge Mario fan, but I am mot having fun.

Agreed. It gets worse. Also, lazy invisible walls. Worst Super Mario game IMO. Did not feel like the classic team / designers touched this meaningfully.
 

Scotty W

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Korok seeds have hints pointing at them, and there’s and item that helps you find them. They also require you to actually do something to earn them, except for those that just require you to lift a rock.


Blue coins are completely. fucking. random. They’re there just... because. Spray a random wheel, out pops a blue coin! Why? Because!
I have never agreed with the criticism of the Korok seeds. Think of the one at the top of Rito Tower. I climbed up there just for the sake of seeing from the top, and the Korok was a pleasant gift that took 5 seconds to get. That is it in a nutshell: hundreds of pleasant diversions. The reward for finding all of them teaches an important life lesson too: don’t waste your life looking for pointless SHIT.
 

Shaqazooloo

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I really enjoy a lot of the difficult stuff in 3d Marios, because it feels like it is my fault when I fail. The difficulty feels cheap, like the MK3 ai.

Will it get better?
Not really imo, if anything it gets worse later with stuff like the pachinko level.

It's really the only Mario game where dying feels more the fault of the game than the player.
 

Cutty Flam

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Not really imo, if anything it gets worse later with stuff like the pachinko level.

It's really the only Mario game where dying feels more the fault of the game than the player.
Pachinko level…. You are referring to either Serena Beach or Noki Bay? If it’s the latter, I can understand that a bit but the other one is a really good level. Unique and highly memorable. I recall some very frantic challenges taking place there
 

Aldric

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Sunshine is my favorite 3D Mario game. It is absolutely a broken ass, unfinished game which means it has quite a few frustrating parts but this is in part why I like it so much. It's sort of an anomaly in Nintendo's catalog, especially for a Mario game, usually the crown jewel of the company as everyone expects these games to be perfectly polished. Sunshine isn't polished at all, in fact it's covered in gunk but it makes it memorable and unique. I'd rather have a challenging and unfair game than the kind of neutered ultra mainstream experiences Mario games became during the Wii and Wii U era.

And of course people who say that it's a mediocre collectathon are full of shit, it's an exceptional achievement when it comes to movement mechanics and an incredibly charming title with arguably the best hubworld in any 3D game, a very well executed central theme and some brilliant precision platforming with the genius fludless levels. The final level is inexcusable though I'll give you that.
 

DragoonKain

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I quit a few hours in. Maybe I'll go back to it at some point, but no time soon.
 

Shaqazooloo

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Pachinko level…. You are referring to either Serena Beach or Noki Bay? If it’s the latter, I can understand that a bit but the other one is a really good level. Unique and highly memorable. I recall some very frantic challenges taking place there
I'm talking about the pachinko stage you access in Delfino Plaza, infamous for being the most jank stage in Mario history.
 

Scotty W

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I'd rather have a challenging and unfair game than the kind of neutered ultra mainstream experiences Mario games became during the Wii and Wii U era.
This is neutered?


I’d rather chug the nectar of pure gaming joy than fight with a difficulty artificially inflated by ‘Gunk.’
 
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Aldric

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This is neutered?
Replaying the first Galaxy earlier this year soured me completely on the game. It has excellent presentation but I absolutely hate Mario's movement. He takes forever to start moving, there's a bunch of recovery frames after every jump which prevents you from stringing them together like in previous 3D Mario and some moves were removed making the game overall more shallow. Galaxy 2 is more of the same and on top of that it started the trend of homogenization between 2D and 3D games with the kind of section you posted. I don't play 3D Mario games for this sort of sidescrolling, simplistic powerup focused gameplay so yeah, neutered compared to Sunshine.
 

IKSTUGA

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Sunshine is good, but really uneven. Some levels are amazing, while others feel like they were specifically made to piss off the player. Definitely my least favorite 3D Mario.
 
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MrFancypants

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Sunshine is good, but really uneven. Some levels are amazing, while others feel like they were specifically made to piss off the player. Definitely my least favorite 3D Mario.
It was basically the Dark Souls of the platforming world, but that’s what made it brilliant. It was a kids game that wasn’t made for kids, and actually offered its players a challenge. If you want your hand to be held, go play one of the newer 3D titles. Sunshine is meant for the hardcore among us.
 

IKSTUGA

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It was basically the Dark Souls of the platforming world, but that’s what made it brilliant. It was a kids game that wasn’t made for kids, and actually offered its players a challenge. If you want your hand to be held, go play one of the newer 3D titles. Sunshine is meant for the hardcore among us.
I'm ok with challenge and have beaten Sunshine several times. I just think some of the shines are absolutely terribly designed. The hotel level for example barely tests your platforming skills and is just a complete slog.
 
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Scotty W

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Level 2.

Why was there no indication I needed Yoshi? Not even a hint?

I stomped on the two tops of the fruit tank. I first got a pineapple, which I carried over to Yoshi. But he wanted a Durian. Stomp again snd again, finally a durian- which, fir some obscure reason, you have to kick instead of carrying.

I shot my wad at the first fish and jumped to the first platform. I repeated this, but missed the second platform. People don’t talk about this: it it very difficult to tell where you are in this game, which makes you over or under shoot jumps all the time.

Yoshi dissolves in water, so I spend 20 seconds swimming back to shore. But Yoshi has returned to his egg. So I have to stomp on the fruit tanks again. But make sure you stomp on the correct one, because nothing comes out if you start on the wrong one. After that, they give you ten useless fruits before they give you a durian. But when the durian comes out the pipe, it bounces on a banana, and off the ledge, and you can’t pick it up, BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO KICK THE DURIAN.

Repeat this process 3-10 times.

thE dArK SoUlS oF MarIo GaMeS
 

Rockondevil

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I personally love Sunshine and it's possibly my favourite 3D Mario game, though 64 is obviously amazing too and probably makes it a tie for first.

That's not to say I don't love Galaxy or Odyssey either. They are also both amazing.

Different strokes for different folks I guess but I'll always hold Sunshine close to heart.
 

Scotty W

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Wait till you get to the hotel.
So I just beat Bowser and I must admit that the game improved quite a bit and actually ended up being pretty good.

The main problem is the first 3 levels. They are needlessly frustrating. There is far too much punishment of time loss for new mechanics not yet properly understood and imperfectly implemented.

Moreover, the game frequently expects you to use a mechanic without giving you a hint that there is such a mechanic. This is in contrast with Miyamoto’s usual practice of clearly introducing a new mechanic in a safe area, then putting it in a more difficult context, and finally mixing it into the flow of the game.

The clearest example of this was in the Hotel level where you have to go thru the maze. I ended up watching a video on it and one of the comments summed it up perfectly “This is the how was I supposed to know that level.”

I didn’t hate the hotel level, though thankfully I only had to do that casino thing once, as I didn’t get a game over in the bonus level. The fact that they put a difficult level like that behind such a tedious task is really remarkable.

Overall, I would say maybe 8.5 out of 10 but only 5/10 for the first few levels. I am at 78 stars and I doubt I will go back to 100 percent it.
 

jimjonjimmy

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So I just beat Bowser and I must admit that the game improved quite a bit and actually ended up being pretty good.

The main problem is the first 3 levels. They are needlessly frustrating. There is far too much punishment of time loss for new mechanics not yet properly understood and imperfectly implemented.

Moreover, the game frequently expects you to use a mechanic without giving you a hint that there is such a mechanic. This is in contrast with Miyamoto’s usual practice of clearly introducing a new mechanic in a safe area, then putting it in a more difficult context, and finally mixing it into the flow of the game.

The clearest example of this was in the Hotel level where you have to go thru the maze. I ended up watching a video on it and one of the comments summed it up perfectly “This is the how was I supposed to know that level.”

I didn’t hate the hotel level, though thankfully I only had to do that casino thing once, as I didn’t get a game over in the bonus level. The fact that they put a difficult level like that behind such a tedious task is really remarkable.

Overall, I would say maybe 8.5 out of 10 but only 5/10 for the first few levels. I am at 78 stars and I doubt I will go back to 100 percent it.
Understandable. It definitely lacks the polish of a Mario game let alone a first party Nintendo title. I agree that some of the levels aren't built well to teach you mechanics the game expects you to use. I wouldn't go for 100% because some of the shines are extremely frustrating. As mentioned the Pachinko Stage, also the Watermelon Contest in the beach level. The Gondela ride with Yoshi in the Plaza. Also as some mentioned the Blue coins are pretty cryptic at times. They go beyond the search every nook and cranny to basically sweeping the area numerous times because the way to get them changes in each level.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

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I didn’t hate the hotel level, though thankfully I only had to do that casino thing once, as I didn’t get a game over in the bonus level. The fact that they put a difficult level like that behind such a tedious task is really remarkable.
See, that’s Sunshine’s problems in a nutshell.
You just can’t stop wondering how they did something so macroscopically wrong in a mainline Mario game.
 
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Cutty Flam

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😂 the first, Bianco Hills - I just knew it wasn’t for me.
Holy cow! It’s a great game. You being a Banjo-Kazooie fan, I’m surprised…Super Mario Sunshine is hardcore platforming at its finest imo, probably the toughest Nintendo game right next to Super Mario World 2: Yoshi’s Island

The first level is tough to put in words. I still love Bianco Hills but the second level onwards are the most memorable moments in the game. It can be a frustrating game, but it’s the GOAT beach slash island game and that’s saying something
 
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MrFancypants

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The first, Bianco Hills - I just knew it wasn’t for me.
Do you often judge entire games based solely on the first level? Because that’s a really piss-poor way to judge a game. Give it a chance, and it will grow on you. As Curry said, it’s platforming at its finest. The fact you’re not having your hand held the entire game is what makes it better. You really need to stop and think about what you’re doing.
 
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Banjo64

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Holy cow! It’s a great game. You being a Banjo-Kazooie fan, I’m surprised…Super Mario Sunshine is hardcore platforming at its finest imo, probably the toughest Nintendo game right next to Super Mario World 2: Yoshi’s Island

The first level is tough to put in words. I still love Bianco Hills but the second level onwards are the most memorable moments in the game. It can be a frustrating game, but it’s the GOAT beach slash island game and that’s saying something
Thanks for the reply mate, I will go back to it and give it more time. It’s held up well graphically.


Do you often judge entire games based solely on the first level? Because that’s a really piss-poor way to judge a game. Give it a chance, and it will grow on you. As Curry said, it’s platforming at its finest. The fact you’re not having your hand held the entire game is what makes it better. You really need to stop and think about what you’re doing.

Sometimes yes. I don’t have loads of time to game, and I know what type of games I tend to like. Although I’m sure I do miss out on some great slow burners.
 

MrFancypants

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Thanks for the reply mate, I will go back to it and give it more time. It’s held up well graphically.

Sometimes yes. I don’t have loads of time to game, and I know what type of games I tend to like. Although I’m sure I do miss out on some great slow burners.
You really should go back and it give it a proper play. As others said, the first few stages are frustrating as hell due to the immediate shift in difficulty compared to other 3D Mario games, but you do get used to it, and some of the later stages are brilliant to play.
 

Cutty Flam

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Thanks for the reply mate, I will go back to it and give it more time. It’s held up well graphically.
No problem. Any man that names himself after Banjo-Kazooie is destined to become a king/conqueror/deity among men

Super Mario Sunshine is something like a masterpiece to me, except with its flaws it could never be a true masterpiece, like Super Mario 64. But still, the game is superb once you get the ball rolling. The only thing is, this is not a game you want to rush through IMO, it’s too challenging and the difficulty level can and probably will get to most players at one point or another. Best to chip away at it and enjoy it. I’m sure most have had their moments while playing Super Mario Sunshine when they wanted to slam their controller to dust lol. It’s one hell of a game. Would definitely recommend it to anyone who is up for a rigorous challenge. I’m guessing a 100% complete file would take around 60 hrs or so of pure gameplay; the game is intense bro

This thread made me want to play the game again pretty badly not gonna lie lol. Might have to play it with that wireless N64 controller