• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Hardware Hype PlayStation 5 cooling system is 'lavish', makes the PS5 more expensive

Status
Not open for further replies.

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
10,745
14,980
1,225
Last edited:

Chiggs

Gold Member
Jan 20, 2005
13,097
1,926
1,820
Carcosa
I remember my PS3 being a bit louder than the PS4, yes. My launch PS3 did last 8 years, how many people can say the same about their launch 360, though?
I'm not bagging on the PS3's quality, really. It's more or less the same level of hubris shining through again.

Also, the launch PS3s were fortunate enough to have their quality compared to the 360. I had two units that received Sony's dreaded yellow light of death.
 
Last edited:

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
10,745
14,980
1,225
I'm not bagging on the PS3's quality, really. It's more or less the same level of hubris shining through again.
The same level of hubris? Not even close. You don't see Sony execs suggesting you should get a second job. Even when Cerny talked about the PS5 cooling, he admitted to the lackluster effort done on the PS4 Pro. That's as far from hubris as it can get, if you ask me.
 

geordiemp

Member
Sep 5, 2013
8,611
5,561
790
UK
Sony are using a super fast SSD and they are doing a different method for cooling, did you not see the patent on here the r day about 3d stacking ?
They are using cheap memory for the SSD and a clever 12 lane design, its a clever ...does fast mean expensive , they are different words...

And Sony generic patent for stacked chips, its generic patent. Do you think Sony is stacking chips for Ps5 ?

There is a few lines in the patent that says how to cool both sides of the chip = efficient and cheaper ....maybe that is employed , we dont know.

You clearly have given the subject allot of though and deep consideration.
 
Last edited:

geordiemp

Member
Sep 5, 2013
8,611
5,561
790
UK
Just when I thought being a console gamer couldn't get any more embarrassing :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Just quoting the article, thats what it says exactly.

You think learning to read is embarrassing, or are you impling something else ?

Care to share what you find so hilarious, as your post is not well articulated and ambiguous.

When is school back .....
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: Kusarigama

Gavon West

Member
Jan 12, 2018
1,745
1,794
375
Dude, I like you because that avatar is awesome, but you really really need to stop calling it an overclock when countless sources have already debunked that myth.
Breh, there is a dedicated baseline of performance. Power that devs KNOW will be there. A power delta that IS NOT variable. 10.2 ain't it. That's at the PS5 peak. 9.2 is that baseline. It is what it is.
 

On Demand

Member
Dec 12, 2013
5,348
596
550
I remember Ken Kuturagi boasting about the PS3's cooling system.

This is going to be funny.
He was talking about dissipating heat with no respect to noise. He was right in that sense. PS3’s fan works well at what it’s supposed to do.

Cerny is specifically talking about cooling and noise and even made it a point to bring up PS4’s fan noise problem and that people will like what they came up with. PS5 will be a silent console compared to PS4.

You people to at least do proper research if you’re going to troll like this. PS5 FUD is getting ridiculous by the day.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Blitzmangoman

Gavon West

Member
Jan 12, 2018
1,745
1,794
375
Don't be fooled by his "articulate and calm demeanor" since these kind of posters do this to avoid a ban, even though the nature of their posts consists of unwarranted dismissal of actual evidence/proof of superiority when it comes to PlayStation 5's features and specific specs.
What superiority?? Wha???
 

Gavon West

Member
Jan 12, 2018
1,745
1,794
375
Lol, first of all, shoutouts to your avatar...…..I wont say what my allegiance is politically, but your avatar is funny to me...

In any case, XBOX fans thought they had a clean homerun hit, till people started viewing and dissecting the Cerny breakdown, then most folk realized, "it's not as cut and dry"......XBOX fans are having a hard time dissecting it and are furious that there is more talk surrounding the genius custom architecture that Cerny has devised here.....Deep within, they are not sure that Series X's 12.1 TF is all she wrote on what performances and best experiences lies ahead....
LMAO!
 

Hobbygaming

Member
Sep 30, 2019
3,046
5,078
455
Breh, there is a dedicated baseline of performance. Power that devs KNOW will be there. A power delta that IS NOT variable. 10.2 ain't it. That's at the PS5 peak. 9.2 is that baseline. It is what it is.
The PS5 could spend more time at its peak 10.2 Tflops compared to the XSX at 12 because of the XSX's split ram pool/asymmetric set up going by that Crytek developers words

It makes sense too seeing how 3rd party developers told Jason Schreier that PS5 is better in a lot of ways
 
Nov 5, 2016
23,807
45,533
1,135
One Big Room, Full Of Bad Bitches
The PS5 could spend more time at its peak 10.2 Tflops compared to the XSX at 12 because of the XSX's split ram pool/asymmetric set up going by that Crytek developers words

It makes sense too seeing how 3rd party developers told Jason Schreier that PS5 is better in a lot of ways
I don’t have a devkit. I’ve never programmed or developed or designed a game. I’m not gonna pretend like I know everything. Maybe what you wrote here in bold ends up being true, maybe it won’t.

I just wish anonymous sources on twitter and an interview that was retracted would stop being treated as indisputable data.

The sooner Sony does a full console reveal and component breakdown, and the sooner we get head to head performance comparisons, the better. The random biased speculation is kinda tiresome imo.

Design wise: I don’t think cooling is gonna be an issue this gen. Whatever PS5 has will be more then as adequate, as I’m sure Cerny is well aware of the noise/heat complaints of this gen’s boxes
 

Gavon West

Member
Jan 12, 2018
1,745
1,794
375
The PS5 could spend more time at its peak 10.2 Tflops compared to the XSX at 12 because of the XSX's split ram pool/asymmetric set up going by that Crytek developers words

It makes sense too seeing how 3rd party developers told Jason Schreier that PS5 is better in a lot of ways
It "could" do alot of things. But there's a stark difference in "could" and "will do". You post still doesn't change anything. There's a baseline that doesn't need a "could " to describe performance. That baseline is guaranteed and has to be in order for devs to fully understand what the PS5 brings to the table WITH CERTAINTY. Its not variable. 9.2 is that guaranteed delta. That's your baseline. 10.2 is what's possible at its peak. That's all I'm saying here..
 
  • Like
Reactions: darrenskywalker

Gavon West

Member
Jan 12, 2018
1,745
1,794
375
I bet both consoles perform closer than you expect when it comes to cross platform games. I seriously doubt one will have a huge advantage over the other, get ready for a let down.
I'll take that bet. I can guarantee you'll see noticeable differences in assets, textures, frames and resolutions with Series X. Not to say the PS5 won't be a beast in its own rights. But overall, the Series X will deliver much better in head to head comparisons. You in or out?
 

Kenpachii

Member
Mar 23, 2018
4,784
5,179
655
The PS5 could spend more time at its peak 10.2 Tflops compared to the XSX at 12 because of the XSX's split ram pool/asymmetric set up going by that Crytek developers words

It makes sense too seeing how 3rd party developers told Jason Schreier that PS5 is better in a lot of ways
PS5 could spend a lot less on the 10.2 tflop department then the xbox series X 12tflop solution.
Why? because it throttles and has lower memory performance.

Imagine 3rd party developers mentioning a weaker cpu, weaker memory and weaker GPU with cpu and gpu throttling is better in a lot of ways.

Can't wait for the devs to come out and tell us how much better the cooler on the PS5 is which will result in better temps to get better performance out of the current hardware that somehow makes it a 20tflop machine.

Dat 3 buck magical cooler.
 
Last edited:

DESTROYA

Member
Jan 1, 2011
5,784
6,979
1,010
USA
I'll take that bet. I can guarantee you'll see noticeable differences in assets, textures, frames and resolutions with Series X. Not to say the PS5 won't be a beast in its own rights. But overall, the Series X will deliver much better in head to head comparisons. You in or out?
I was taking performance as in FPS. What do you mean exactly by noticeable difference? It’s not going to perform 40% better like i seen some posters say
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hobbygaming

Hobbygaming

Member
Sep 30, 2019
3,046
5,078
455
It "could" do alot of things. But there's a stark difference in "could" and "will do". You post still doesn't change anything. There's a baseline that doesn't need a "could " to describe performance. That baseline is guaranteed and has to be in order for devs to fully understand what the PS5 brings to the table WITH CERTAINTY. Its not variable. 9.2 is that guaranteed delta. That's your baseline. 10.2 is what's possible at its peak. That's all I'm saying here..
Only except that you're speculating that 9.2 is the baseline when Mark Cerny said that performance doesn't see a considerable drop.

If you're using the same logic then XSX wouldn't be 12 Tflops because it's theoretical and we already have devs saying the fast and slow ram has bottlenecked the XSX
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
37,070
61,774
1,170
The same level of hubris? Not even close. You don't see Sony execs suggesting you should get a second job. Even when Cerny talked about the PS5 cooling, he admitted to the lackluster effort done on the PS4 Pro. That's as far from hubris as it can get, if you ask me.
Seriously. It shows a willingness to listen and improve upon the past concerns. They even acknowledged gamer's complaints about the controller battery life, eluding to improvements for the DualSense. The gall of them!
 
Last edited:

Hobbygaming

Member
Sep 30, 2019
3,046
5,078
455
PS5 could spend a lot less on the 10.2 tflop department then the xbox series X 12tflop solution.
Why? because it throttles and has lower memory performance.

Imagine 3rd party developers mentioning a weaker cpu, weaker memory and weaker GPU with cpu and gpu throttling is better in a lot of ways.

Can't wait for the devs to come out and tell us how much better the cooler on the PS5 is which will result in better temps to get better performance out of the current hardware that somehow makes it a 20tflop machine.

Dat 3 buck magical cooler.
The PS5 can spend more time rendering at its peak 10.2 because it has a faster GPU and the XSX will need to properly distribute resources amongst its 52 CUs or the number of CUs in use, drops
 

Hobbygaming

Member
Sep 30, 2019
3,046
5,078
455
I'll take that bet. I can guarantee you'll see noticeable differences in assets, textures, frames and resolutions with Series X. Not to say the PS5 won't be a beast in its own rights. But overall, the Series X will deliver much better in head to head comparisons. You in or out?
LOL expect an even harder time making those differences out. You'll get 2-3 more frames sometimes and no perceivable difference in resolution
 
  • Like
Reactions: DESTROYA

Ten_Fold

Member
Jan 18, 2017
1,110
742
390
Pricing and quantity will matter soo, much come October/November, gonna be interesting.
 

MrRixter

Has a powerful MS-Excel PC that plays some games
Feb 21, 2014
133
177
545
Just quoting the article, thats what it says exactly.

You think learning to read is embarrassing, or are you impling something else ?

Care to share what you find so hilarious, as your post is not well articulated and ambiguous.

When is school back .....
What are you on about? I was poking fun at how poverish console gaming is.
 

Gavon West

Member
Jan 12, 2018
1,745
1,794
375
Only except that you're speculating that 9.2 is the baseline when Mark Cerny said that performance doesn't see a considerable drop.

If you're using the same logic then XSX wouldn't be 12 Tflops because it's theoretical and we already have devs saying the fast and slow ram has bottlenecked the XSX
The 12TF is held and locked. We have the chief architect of the Series X confirming this ad nauseum. Whoever told you that, lied. He even said, "12TF" is raw power. That's not variable". He made a point to say it. There's no "theoretical" about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: phil_t98

Gavon West

Member
Jan 12, 2018
1,745
1,794
375
I don't see how we could make a bet off of this. It will be based off of opinions. I'd win but still :)
Then shut the hell up and let's do the damn thing! lol.

The way we can place the bet is via DF. They'll certainly break things down once the software is released for both systems.
 

Hobbygaming

Member
Sep 30, 2019
3,046
5,078
455
The 12TF is held and locked. We have the chief architect of the Series X confirming this ad nauseum. Whoever told you that, lied. He even said, "12TF" is raw power. That's not variable". He made a point to say it. There's no "theoretical" about it.
Tflops are always theoretical my friend

My argument is that PS5 will reach its peak more often than the XSX reaching its peak of 12 Tflops
 
Last edited:

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
10,745
14,980
1,225
The 12TF is held and locked.
What is locked is the frequency, not the teraflops number, which is a theoretical maximum expressing how many operations the GPU will calculate under maximum load (assuming no bottlenecks).
Same goes for the PS5 10TF as long as its GPU frequency does not decrease.

The way we can place the bet is via DF.
I'm pretty sure of what DF is going to say throughout the entire generation. LOL
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Gavon West

Gavon West

Member
Jan 12, 2018
1,745
1,794
375
What is locked is the frequency, not the teraflops number, which is a theoretical maximum expressing how many operations the GPU will calculate under maximum load (assuming no bottlenecks).
Same goes for the PS5 10TF as long as its GPU frequency does not decrease.



I'm pretty sure of what DF is going to say throughout the entire generation. LOL
My point still remains however. The theoretical power delta is still at a much higher frequency with Series X than with the 10tf (variable) GPU found in the PS5. After a bit more research, you and Hobby are correct in stating the stated power deltas in teraflops (or floating points) are both theoretical in nature. But, even in frequencies the delta still sits much higher when comparing GPU's of both machines.
 
Last edited:

GiJoint

Member
Apr 5, 2020
166
161
195
That’s good, my Pro can get really really loud on some games, despite sitting in a well ventilated area.

Also, why are people so angry that the PS5 just ain’t as powerful as the Series X? Is it going to stop you getting a PS5? No? Then calm down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AveragePhoenix
Apr 14, 2020
142
152
195
See, this is exactly what happens when you mess with Overclocking. Sony should've just stuck with the 9.2 teraflops and call it a day
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: Hobbygaming

FranXico

Member
Dec 7, 2010
10,745
14,980
1,225
My point still remains however. The theoretical power delta is still at a much higher frequency with Series X than with the 10tf (variable) GPU found in the PS5. After a bit more research, you and Hobby are correct in stating the stated power deltas in teraflops (or floating points) are both theoretical in nature. But, even in frequencies the delta still sits much higher when comparing GPU's of both machines.
Of course, if the theoretical maximum is higher, so is the expected performance.
 

loktaiextatus

Member
Apr 12, 2020
265
234
220
I'm not bagging on the PS3's quality, really. It's more or less the same level of hubris shining through again.

Also, the launch PS3s were fortunate enough to have their quality compared to the 360. I had two units that received Sony's dreaded yellow light of death.
3 quarters of the YLOD on the PS3 were because of the NEC capacitors, usually on the GPU side. There was a ton of misinfo about the
"lead free solder" going around because that was the issue the 360 had, but on the PS3 its actually just the capacitors MOST of the time.
The funny thing is that so many were junked or reflowed (which sort of breaths a little more life into the caps, High heat exposure) only to YLOD again...
And they'd end up in the scrap heap when 10 bucks worth of capacitors would have repaired them. Sad really. Ive personally delidded and replaced
the capacitors on about a dozen PS3s even ones that had been previously YLOD's, baked in an oven, and then YLOD's again later , and they still work today( to the
best of my knowledge nobody has come back to me about it ) including my own.

I personally made the mistake and ruined my own launch PS3 trying to "reflow" it , later my friends launch ps3 (we bought them together in 06) YLOD's
and I fixed it by just replacing the capacitors on the back side of the board for the GPU and CPU, though I could have gotten away with just the GPU ....
Man did I feel like an ass for destroying my original PS3.

Thats why the YLOD usually happens inevitably regardless of how much you use the thing or how cool it stays or how good the thermal
pads and paste are....

I also fixed one that had crazy graphical artifacts and weird geometry "Sticks" flying into the distance during gameplay on 3d games
by replacing those capacitors on the GPU side.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Demon2blades

loktaiextatus

Member
Apr 12, 2020
265
234
220
See, this is exactly what happens when you mess with Overclocking. Sony should've just stuck with the 9.2 teraflops and call it a day
I dont know why you, and others dont understand "overclocking" vs factory pinned boost clocks.

Every single CPU and GPU on the market today has variable or "game" clocks. Every single one.

They ALL "boost" to those clock speeds with no mod or overclock. They are binned to do that from the factory.
These chips are coming from AMD themselves, not from a third party. Sony is specifying the boost clock on the chips
the same way they are specifying the number of CUs. Sony is saying (mind you they havent even begun to manufacture the units yet)
"AMD we need a chip with a 2.23ghz boost clock, 36 CUs, with our IO controller on-package blah blah" and Amd is filling the order.

Considering older, non RDNA2 (which according to AMD reduces wattage use (and heat) dramatically per clock) clock up around 2ghz safely and
HOLD THAT SPEED without issue on comparable cards like the 5700 XT and that all current GPUs are TF rated by their boost/game clocks not their base
clocks.... Sony is using the part as intended. There is no Overclock since its literally designed from the factory.
 
Apr 14, 2020
142
152
195
I dont know why you, and others dont understand "overclocking" vs factory pinned boost clocks.

Every single CPU and GPU on the market today has variable or "game" clocks. Every single one.

They ALL "boost" to those clock speeds with no mod or overclock. They are binned to do that from the factory.
These chips are coming from AMD themselves, not from a third party. Sony is specifying the boost clock on the chips
the same way they are specifying the number of CUs. Sony is saying (mind you they havent even begun to manufacture the units yet)
"AMD we need a chip with a 2.23ghz boost clock, 36 CUs, with our IO controller on-package blah blah" and Amd is filling the order.

Considering older, non RDNA2 (which according to AMD reduces wattage use (and heat) dramatically per clock) clock up around 2ghz safely and
HOLD THAT SPEED without issue on comparable cards like the 5700 XT and that all current GPUs are TF rated by their boost/game clocks not their base
clocks.... Sony is using the part as intended. There is no Overclock since its literally designed from the factory.
Okay, let me rephrase it, Sony should've just stuck with the 9.2 teraflops instead of "boosting the clocks"
 

Gavon West

Member
Jan 12, 2018
1,745
1,794
375
Of course, if the theoretical maximum is higher, so is the expected performance.
So answer me this. I want to be clear here: if 10.2 TF is (variable) on the PS5 but its guaranteed baseline is 9.2tf (yes, I do believe the 9.2 leak was real) what would you say is the Series X baseline of power? The guaranteed delta devs know with certainty they can count on. Or is 12tf the baseline delta?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.