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PlayStation 5 cooling system is 'lavish', makes the PS5 more expensive

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Gavon West

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It's not mental gymnastics when it's coming from developers and other credible people
It is tho. There's nothing that can happen between the two consoles to change the power delta. It is what it is. Sony gamers gotta deal with it! If there's more power in one console than the other, that will show in the games. It happens every gen.
 

Gavon West

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I wouldn't even go by that since it isn't gameplay. We already saw how much better an inengine cinematic can be when compared to actual gameplay.
Ninja Theory actually got pretty damn close with Hellblade I. No reason to think any different with HB II. Especially with how powerful the box is.
 

Hobbygaming

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It is tho. There's nothing that can happen between the two consoles to change the power delta. It is what it is. Sony gamers gotta deal with it! If there's more power in one console than the other, that will show in the games. It happens every gen.
Lmao so you know better than the developers that say PS5 is superior in some ways? The XSX will likely be the more powerful console but the PS5 will do some things better

The power delta will be negligible

It is what it is
 

Gavon West

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Lmao so you know better than the developers that say PS5 is superior in some ways? The XSX will likely be the more powerful console but the PS5 will do some things better

The power delta will be negligible

It is what it is
It may load games and assets faster. Maybe. Its not like the Series X has a HD and the PS5 has an SSD. You guys act like SX still has last gen hardware. Shit is crazy... Lol
 
Base is Series X. WTF?

On god, if Sony fans try to claim victories on the Series S (as its weaker) vs PS5 instead of Series X, I'm going to LOL so hard. Holy shit...

Well, Sony fans can claim I/O victory, raw clock / fill rate victory, storage speed victory, and PROBABLY ( again I am waiting to see more) Game victory.
Xbox has the raw GPU power victory (PS5 being 15 percent weaker), Top CPU clock victory (100-200mhz depending on if the 3.5 Sony provided was SMT or unlocked)
and Gamepass victory for sure.

We're kind of waiting for the rest to become clear. (Price, how good/bad Dualsense is, etc)
 
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Hobbygaming

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It may load games and assets faster. Maybe. Its not like the Series X has a HD and the PS5 has an SSD. You guys act like SX still has last gen hardware. Shit is crazy... Lol
No one has even hinted at the XSX being last gen hardware I even said it will likely be more powerful

It won't be by enough to matter though and PS5 will be better at some processes, it's fine :)
 
Is that echo ?

Its not its Orphan of the machine.

Can I say the sound of it given "the machine" was the device in the Ecco games (having hardly looked into this game mind you)
that it seems like a reference to the alien ship that processes the sea life to feed the Vortex....

I watched the gameplay, apart from the graphics being outright kind of bad and the animation being horrible ...
I am an aquarium hobbyist and an amateur, lets say naturalist and have a pretty good grasp on things like
basic aquatic ecosystems and what fish live where.

The fish etc shown in the game as fresh water fish swimming in water that has like, barnacles and .. .I mean I dont want to go
down this insane path because the game is so far from launch but just the fact that they even have those fish in there makes
it look like a parody. It isnt much different from making an ecco the dolphin game and the fish you see in the ocean are literally 5 foot long goldfish.

I see schools of archerfish swimming in deep marine water and I cringe.

I just cant even look at it. Its a careless mess.
 

Tripolygon

Banned
Your missing the forest here. DF is for the hardcore gamers. We watch DF and the first initial investors of next gen hardware. We, then go and tell our casual friends and those newly invested in gaming. This is the beginning of a new gen. And this is a whole new ball game. Sony and Microsoft are set to swing for the fences in software this time 'round.

And I disgree that Sony can fuck up and still sell a ton. No. No they cant.
How many of your casual friends have you convinced to buy a X1X over PS4? And how many would you wager have done the same worldwide enough to make a dent in PS4 sales?

Yea that's what i thought.

You are underestimating brand power. For 3 gen PlayStation has sold over 100 million consoles, for the gen they fucked up royally they have sold over 80 million consoles. Disagree all you want but these are the facts, their announcements have generated more Social media engagement that anything Microsoft has done thus far.
 
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Radical_3d

Member
And I disgree that Sony can fuck up and still sell a ton. No. No they cant.
After one year and a half head start the PS3 outsold the 360 in Europe by 2008, only a year after its release. And that was way before Sony got on track with his studios production, but with its infamous launch titles (which I find quite good, but then again, I’m European) and maybe MGS4.
 

Journey

Banned
The more I look at this console cycle, the more it looks like the roles have reversed. Xbox One went with 14CU in order to fit ESRAM in the die, you see MS could've used 20CU like the PS4, but instead they saved on GDDR5 and used DDR3 + ESRAM to make up for the lack of bandwidth, but unfortunately at the end of the day, Xbox One cost more to manufacture than the PS4.

Now the tides have turned, Sony has now gone with just 40CUs in order to save money, but now needs a lavish and more expensive cooling system along with an expensive SSD just might end up costing as much as an Xbox Series X to manufacture, but less powerful, just like it happened with Xbox One.
 

Radical_3d

Member
The more I look at this console cycle, the more it looks like the roles have reversed. Xbox One went with 14CU in order to fit ESRAM in the die, you see MS could've used 20CU like the PS4, but instead they saved on GDDR5 and used DDR3 + ESRAM to make up for the lack of bandwidth, but unfortunately at the end of the day, Xbox One cost more to manufacture than the PS4.

Now the tides have turned, Sony has now gone with just 40CUs in order to save money, but now needs a lavish and more expensive cooling system along with an expensive SSD just might end up costing as much as an Xbox Series X to manufacture, but less powerful, just like it happened with Xbox One.
Well… yes and no. It’s likely to be more expensive but the SSD is there to make up for the lack of RAM, so it’s not for nothing and it’s faster. So it’s easy to asume that the features more RAM intensive will have a slight advantage in the PS5, although being less powerful.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
The more I look at this console cycle, the more it looks like the roles have reversed. Xbox One went with 14CU in order to fit ESRAM in the die, you see MS could've used 20CU like the PS4, but instead they saved on GDDR5 and used DDR3 + ESRAM to make up for the lack of bandwidth, but unfortunately at the end of the day, Xbox One cost more to manufacture than the PS4.

Now the tides have turned, Sony has now gone with just 40CUs in order to save money, but now needs a lavish and more expensive cooling system along with an expensive SSD just might end up costing as much as an Xbox Series X to manufacture, but less powerful, just like it happened with Xbox One.
Except PS5 will still have some advantages over the XSX

The higher GPU clock speed in the PS5 will have it operating more often at its 10.28 Tflops while the XSX GPU can be bottlenecked by having two separate ram speeds and it will be more difficult than on the PS5 to keep resources evenly spread with its 52 CU's which can create GPU idle times when the distribution of resources fails
 

Hobbygaming

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Well… yes and no. It’s likely to be more expensive but the SSD is there to make up for the lack of RAM, so it’s not for nothing and it’s faster. So it’s easy to asume that the features more RAM intensive will have a slight advantage in the PS5, although being less powerful.
Yep it remains to be seen how the cache scrubbers and the "virtual ram" benefits the PS5 it could be huge for the console
 

Gavon West

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Except PS5 will still have some advantages over the XSX

The higher GPU clock speed in the PS5 will have it operating more often at its 10.28 Tflops while the XSX GPU can be bottlenecked by having two separate ram speeds and it will be more difficult than on the PS5 to keep resources evenly spread with its 52 CU's which can create GPU idle times when the distribution of resources fails
Let me get this right, a console with variable frequencies (flops) won't bottleneck, but a console with set frequencies will now? Can you elaborate a bit more?
 

Radical_3d

Member
Yep it remains to be seen how the cache scrubbers and the "virtual ram" benefits the PS5 it could be huge for the console
Don’t get me wrong. The Xs has that too (virtual whatever they called it), but the PS5 solution is better and Xs needs it more since it has the same amount of RAM for more TFs. So it will be more affected by the tiny jump in RAM of this generation.
 

Sacred

Member
Except PS5 will still have some advantages over the XSX

The higher GPU clock speed in the PS5 will have it operating more often at its 10.28 Tflops while the XSX GPU can be bottlenecked by having two separate ram speeds and it will be more difficult than on the PS5 to keep resources evenly spread with its 52 CU's which can create GPU idle times when the distribution of resources fails

Stop with your misinformation, it is baffling me how you haven't been banned for this yet. There is no bottleneck as confirmed by MS, multiple Devs, and Phil himself.
 

Gavon West

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Stop with your misinformation, it is baffling me how you haven't been banned for this yet. There is no bottleneck as confirmed by MS, multiple Devs, and Phil himself.
That's EXACTLY what I heard. I'm like, "what fucking bottlenecks?? "
 

Hobbygaming

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Let me get this right, a console with variable frequencies (flops) won't bottleneck, but a console with set frequencies will now? Can you elaborate a bit more?
Sure its actually a few different factors

1. Split ram pool for the XSX
2. Wide and slow means less frequency = 12 Tflops in ideal situations
3. The PS5 GPU can use very little CPU resources in graphics heavy ops and vice versa
4. The software stack has DirectX for API so it isn't as close to the metal as GNM or Sony's reengineering of GNM

This is what has been said by a dev so things aren't as black and white as they would seem but this is all I will say on the matter
 
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Gavon West

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Sure its actually a few different factors

1. Split ram pool for the XSX
2. Wide and slow means less frequency = 12 Tflops in ideal situations
3. The PS5 GPU can use very little CPU resources in graphics heavy ops and vice versa
4. The software stack has DirectX for API so it isn't as close to the metal as GNM or Sony's reengineering of GNM
Ummm, I'm pretty sure I heard Series X had NO bottlenecks by a few sources. Officla sources at that. Hobby, I'm calling bullshit broski. Stop this madness. Just stop it...
 

Sacred

Member
All I will say is we'll see :)

All I will say is stop fucking preaching this bullshit till you actually have evidence or real sources to back it up. We get it, you praise Sony and worship the ground they walk on, however everytime you type a response it is full of your own delusions for what you think the consoles will do, stick to facts or don't post.
 
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Sacred

Member
Sure its actually a few different factors

1. Split ram pool for the XSX
2. Wide and slow means less frequency = 12 Tflops in ideal situations
3. The PS5 GPU can use very little CPU resources in graphics heavy ops and vice versa
4. The software stack has DirectX for API so it isn't as close to the metal as GNM or Sony's reengineering of GNM

This is what has been said by a dev so things aren't as black and white as they would seem but this is all I will say on the matter

Wrong, there is 10 GBs of "fast" ram dedicated to the graphic intensive tasks, there another 2.5gb dedicated to audio, ai, and non-intensive tasks. Also, more CUs at lower more manageable speeds means an evenly distributed workload with no fluctuation in frequency. The velocity architecture is built into the hardware and has a special processing chip, it is as close to the metal as you get, STOP POSTING BULLSHIT!
 

fourfourtwo

Neo Member
I wonder how this more "lavish" spend will manifest considering typical cooling solutions cost a dollar. With the insane economies of scale possible with console production, I wonder how it'll stack up against the best that Noctua, Corsair etc. produce for PC.
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
All I will say is stop fucking preaching this bullshit till you actually have evidence or real sources to back it up. We get it, you praise Sony and worship the ground they walk on, however everytime you type a response it is full of your own delusions for what you think the consoles will do, stick to facts or don't post.
What better facts than from the devs themselves
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Wrong, there is 10 GBs of "fast" ram dedicated to the graphic intensive tasks, there another 2.5gb dedicated to audio, ai, and non-intensive tasks. Also, more CUs at lower more manageable speeds means an evenly distributed workload with no fluctuation in frequency. The velocity architecture is built into the hardware and has a special processing chip, it is as close to the metal as you get, STOP POSTING BULLSHIT!
Except most things have to fit in that fast ram also more CUs at lower speeds automatically being more evenly distributed is false

DirectX is an API that supports damn near everything lol it isn't anywhere near the optimization devs can get from GNM

Later!
 
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Sacred

Member
Except most things have to fit in that fast ram also more CUs at lower speeds automatically being more evenly distributed is false

DirectX is an API that supports damn near everything lol it isn't anywhere near the optimization devs can get from GNM

Just keep posting the same lies, I'm done.
 

Deto

Banned
How many of your casual friends have you convinced to buy a X1X over PS4? And how many would you wager have done the same worldwide enough to make a dent in PS4 sales?

Yea that's what i thought.

You are underestimating brand power. For 3 gen PlayStation has sold over 100 million consoles, for the gen they fucked up royally they have sold over 80 million consoles. Disagree all you want but these are the facts, their announcements have generated more Social media engagement that anything Microsoft has done thus far.


I wanted to find a psychiatrist to explain why these guys do this. Talking shit about what others like on the internet? it must be frustration "since I'm not happy, I will TRY to end the hype of others on the internet"
 

Deto

Banned
Stop with your misinformation, it is baffling me how you haven't been banned for this yet. There is no bottleneck as confirmed by MS, multiple Devs, and Phil himself.

The memory is.
The OS stays in slow RAM, every time it is accessed it drops the band of fast RAM

Every time you access 6 GB of slow RAM, it will reduce the speed of fast RAM (560 GB / s) to 244 GB / s or 392 GB / s depending on the amount of 6 GB accessed.


Clearly the sx should have 20GB of RAM, to have a unique pool of 560GB / s, but in desperation to deliver more TF, they had to cut back on RAM to keep the cost down.
 
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Sacred

Member
The memory is.
The OS stays in slow RAM, every time it is accessed it drops the band of fast RAM

Every time you access 6 GB of slow RAM, it will reduce the speed of fast RAM (560 GB / s) to 244 GB / s or 392 GB / s depending on the amount of 6 GB accessed

That is incorrect, it is precisely why they designed the board the way they did, they are two separate memory pools. Meaning that accessing one will not effect the speed of the other. If it was a one channel one memory bus then yes I would agree, but because it is a two channel it means they run at different speeds simultaneously.
 
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Deto

Banned
That is incorrect, it is precisely why they designed the board the way they did, they are two separate memory pools. Meaning that accessing one will not effect the speed of the other. If it was a one channel one memory bus then yes I would agree, but because it is a two channel it means they run at different speeds simultaneously.

If what you say were true, the total speed would be the sum of each pool

The SX ram has the same problem as the Geforce 650 TI and 660TI RAM
 
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Hobbygaming

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https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs.

About the alleged bottlenecks and more.

You guys need to stop with the misinformation.
Good ol DF and MS... I remember MS tried to tell them that the Xbox One had more bandwidth than the PS4 smh. PS4 can do 176 GB/s for reference


0Pxn1Lq.jpg
 

Gavon West

Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
Good ol DF and MS... I remember MS tried to tell them that the Xbox One had more bandwidth than the PS4 smh. PS4 can do 176 GB/s for reference


0Pxn1Lq.jpg
This isn't about the One. This is about Series X. Its a clear, concise (and probably more importantly accurate) article that clears up the clutter a bit. The armchair devs can clock out and go home..... I meant, er, go upstairs or the basement.
 

Hobbygaming

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This isn't about the One. This is about Series X. Its a clear, concise (and probably more importantly accurate) article that clears up the clutter a bit. The armchair devs can clock out and go home..... I meant, er, go upstairs or the basement.
I pointed it out to show you that there can be inaccuracies in what they're claiming, like last time
 

Gavon West

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I pointed it out to show you that there can be inaccuracies in what they're claiming, like last time
Well this article is corraborated by DF and other sites too. Plus, the actual architect of the Series X is included. I highly doubt there's inaccuracies.
 

Kenpachii

Member
If what you say were true, the total speed would be the sum of each pool

The SX ram has the same problem as the Geforce 650 TI and 660TI RAM

It's not comparable. V-ram pool on the gpu was just for the gpu.

The memory in the xbox is more like v-ram + system ram.
 
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