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PlayStation 5 more powerful than Xbox Scarlet, according to Game Informer editor

vpance

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According to Phil Spencer (as per that Colin video), we're not going to notice next gen by the visuals like past gens but by the added features. A bit of an odd thing to say, either Phil has little faith in his system or he's accepted the fact that MS are rarely the ones to push the visual envelope. Diminishing returns or not, games should still look noticeably better.

As always, I'll be looking to Sony and their tech wizards to show us what a next gen system can really do.
If he really said that, that is strange. Even if it were the truth it's probably not something he should downplay like that. I guess it might make sense from MS pov as they're trying to push their services/cloud/eco-system as a priority.
 

NahaNago

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He is talking about Reiner, but very quickly adds that he's heard that too. As in as well as, on his side.


According to Phil Spencer (as per that Colin video), we're not going to notice next gen by the visuals like past gens but by the added features. A bit of an odd thing to say, either Phil has little faith in his system or he's accepted the fact that MS are rarely the ones to push the visual envelope. Diminishing returns or not, games should still look noticeably better.

As always, I'll be looking to Sony and their tech wizards to show us what a next gen system can really do.
I'm thinking that the reason for Phil saying that is because they are aiming to support games on several generations of hardware. So I don't see them tweaking the software enough to create a big enough difference between xbox one x and x box next gen. Just create one version and aim for smoother fps the more powerful the console is. Plus the xbox one will have come out 3 years by the time xbox next gen arrives so I don't see that massive a change in graphics happening.
 

Shmunter

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I'm thinking that the reason for Phil saying that is because they are aiming to support games on several generations of hardware. So I don't see them tweaking the software enough to create a big enough difference between xbox one x and x box next gen. Just create one version and aim for smoother fps the more powerful the console is. Plus the xbox one will have come out 3 years by the time xbox next gen arrives so I don't see that massive a change in graphics happening.
This terrible anchor strategy is going to affect 3rd parties on PS5 too if everything still needs to run on Xbox One VCR edition.
 
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Badenergytroll

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I bet a fully ray-traced, native 4k, 60fps port of Final Fantasy 7 remake will be a Ps5 launch title.
 

Kenpachii

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He is talking about Reiner, but very quickly adds that he's heard that too. As in as well as, on his side.


According to Phil Spencer (as per that Colin video), we're not going to notice next gen by the visuals like past gens but by the added features. A bit of an odd thing to say, either Phil has little faith in his system or he's accepted the fact that MS are rarely the ones to push the visual envelope. Diminishing returns or not, games should still look noticeably better.

As always, I'll be looking to Sony and their tech wizards to show us what a next gen system can really do.
Was he not planning to release multiple systems anyway. Why not just release again a faster system 2-3 years down the road. When next gen titles start to release in any meaningful way. To push further past the PS5 anyway.

I could see them release every 3 years a new console really. 2020 xbox two, 2023 xbox two X, 2026 xbox three, 2029 xbox three x etc.

I could see them for not going for specialized hardware but more standard PC stuff in order to keep BC as easy as possible instead of going full try hard for 10% more performance without any sight on BC in the future.
 

Dabaus

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I am going to put on my tinfoil hat and put this out there: What if MS actually only has plans for one sku at launch and they have been purposely leaking the 2 sku rumor with one uber powerful sku to misdirect competition? What if Lockhart IS the launch sku and Anaconda is actually their codename/plan for mid gen? Could MS just launch with a somewhat weaker and significantly cheaper console with Gamepass being their hook? Nintendo has shown repeatedly most powerful is not needed to be top dog.
My personal tin hat theory is Sony delayed the ps5 for whatever reason. Made a good custom Navi chip with amd and is now focused on reducing loading times etc. Mean while Xbox got a lot of negative feed back from developers and probably retail if the discless rumors were to be believed about lockheart. So now Ms has to redesign anaconda to be a more affordable console than it was originally supposed to be. Thats how/why ps5 would be more powerful. Just my speculation of course.
 
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Pallas

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My personal tin hat theory is Sony delayed the ps5 for whatever reason. Made a good custom Navi chip with amd and is now focused on reducing loading times etc. Mean while Xbox got a lot of negative feed back from developers and probably retail if the discless rumors were to be believed about lockheart. So now Ms has to redesign anaconda to be a more affordable console than it was originally supposed to be. Thats how/why ps5 would be more powerful. Just my speculation of course.
Out of curiosity why is it that your tin hat theories usually put a negative spin on Microsoft?

I think both consoles will be very close power-wise.
 

DanielsM

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I'm thinking that the reason for Phil saying that is because they are aiming to support games on several generations of hardware. So I don't see them tweaking the software enough to create a big enough difference between xbox one x and x box next gen. Just create one version and aim for smoother fps the more powerful the console is. Plus the xbox one will have come out 3 years by the time xbox next gen arrives so I don't see that massive a change in graphics happening.
I think the amount of marketing about a weaker Xbox Next is more akin of their desire to release hardware at a premium which basically has been happening with the Surface line, and even the original Xbox One was probably looked upon by the higher ups as being premium at $500 with the Kinect. Other than MS clearly out Lumia inventory as I picked up several for $29.99, the whole premise changed to Apple style premium products... even the headphones were trying to hit the high-end of the market.

I thought it was interesting how Phil spoke in the interview the other day when it got into power of the system, I might need to re-watch it tomorrow.

Its noticeable they want the most powerful piece of console plastic, but they already have the most powerful piece of console plastic.

Out of curiosity why is it that your tin hat theories usually put a negative spin on Microsoft?

I think both consoles will be very close power-wise.
I'm with you, I'm going to be kind of surprised if the systems weren't fairly close, and I really don't think it matters much, generally speaking. I think what was a surprise is how this unfolded and how defensive MS was, almost like their could be a wide gap or there is some issue.

Let's be honest, any tech company can come out with the most powerful "console" but it comes down to all kinds of other things - game, support, COSTS, etc. The whole thing is a little strange.
 
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Pallas

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I think the amount of marketing about a weaker Xbox Next is more akin of their desire to release hardware at a premium which basically has been happening with the Surface line, and even the original Xbox One was probably looked upon by the higher ups as being premium at $500 with the Kinect. Other than MS clearly out Lumia inventory as I picked up several for $29.99, the whole premise changed to Apple style premium products... even the headphones were trying to hit the high-end of the market.

I thought it was interesting how Phil spoke in the interview the other day when it got into power of the system, I might need to re-watch it tomorrow.

Its noticeable they want the most powerful piece of console plastic, but they already have the most powerful piece of console plastic.



I'm with you, I'm going to be kind of surprised if the systems weren't fairly close, and I really don't think it matters much, generally speaking. I think what was a surprise is how this unfolded and how defensive MS was, almost like their could be a wide gap or there is some issue.

Let's be honest, any tech company can come out with the most powerful "console" but it comes down to all kinds of other things - game, support, COSTS, etc. The whole thing is a little strange.
My main thing with the PS5 is how they are going to improve VR experience with PSVR, I imagine the base assumed specs of the PS5 should improve VR experience a lot without the addition of a processing box. Didn’t earlier rumors suggest that it would come built in with the PS5? I don’t hear anything on that rumor anymore.

As for the next Xbox, I really hope they are able to make all games compatible with it from previous gens, native support beyond Xbox One would be amazing too.

Only way I can see one console being significantly more powerful if there’s actually any credence to that future arcturus architecture being blended somehow with current Navi tech(I’m severely doubting this) or that Sony has some sort of customization that gives it more juice, hopefully both don’t try anything too crazy like the launch X1 did or what the PS3 did.
 

Mass Shift

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My personal tin hat theory is Sony delayed the ps5 for whatever reason. Made a good custom Navi chip with amd and is now focused on reducing loading times etc. Mean while Xbox got a lot of negative feed back from developers and probably retail if the discless rumors were to be believed about lockheart. So now Ms has to redesign anaconda to be a more affordable console than it was originally supposed to be. Thats how/why ps5 would be more powerful. Just my speculation of course.
That's an interesting take on things. But the actual discless console was code named Maverick, the new XB1 S that's in stores right now at the rumored $249 Lockheart price. I honestly don't believe that anyone outside of the loop at MS ever had any real clarification on what Lockheart was or perhaps is still going to be. IMO I always thought it sounded like a mobile streaming platform. Like an Xbox Tablet with a kickstand and the gamer having the option to use any X1 to new X controller.

Redesigning Anaconda to be a lower spec console for affordability isn't really an option at this late point in the game. MS can most certainly take a loss to make Anaconda more competitive price wise, but changing the design just wouldn't be possible.

I don't believe Andrew is being genuine about what he's claiming though. Whenever anyone tries to get him to give a definitive answer he just repeats that it's a rumor being blown out of proportion.
 

Evilms

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Matt booty said that the performance 4 times the X was for the Ram ssd GPU CPU package etc (eurogamer interview) and just after that, Phil Spencer said it was just for the processor (variety interview). The communication is weird at Microsoft.
 

Dabaus

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Im going to come out and say it, I think all this hype and hyperbole about anaconda being the most powerful is just that, hype and hyperbole. Microsoft hyped e3 2019 to be their biggest show ever and it was a dud. Phil said he wants crackdown 3 to be a pillar of Xbox first party and its at best a laughing stock. MS planned sony would launch 2019 with a 8 terraflop PS5 so of course it was easy to one up one year later. After Navi got delayed and PS5 got resigned MS got caught with their pants down, again. All my opinion of course.
 

Sycomunkee

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Im going to come out and say it, I think all this hype and hyperbole about anaconda being the most powerful is just that, hype and hyperbole. Microsoft hyped e3 2019 to be their biggest show ever and it was a dud. Phil said he wants crackdown 3 to be a pillar of Xbox first party and its at best a laughing stock. MS planned sony would launch 2019 with a 8 terraflop PS5 so of course it was easy to one up one year later. After Navi got delayed and PS5 got resigned MS got caught with their pants down, again. All my opinion of course.
I don't think they got caught with their pants down. Both Sony and Microsoft don't know what each other are doing and that couldn't have been more apparent. Each of them want the most powerful console crown, but in the end, I think they will both end up with the same machine give or take a few Mhz.
 

vpance

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Matt booty said that the performance 4 times the X was for the Ram ssd GPU CPU package etc (eurogamer interview) and just after that, Phil Spencer said it was just for the processor (variety interview). The communication is weird at Microsoft.
MS PR word choice is always riddle-like. I think Booty's version sounds more believable. Who uses X times performance to specifically describe CPU increase in a system?
 

Evilms

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MS PR word choice is always riddle-like. I think Booty's version sounds more believable. Who uses X times performance to specifically describe CPU increase in a system?
I don't understand anything about their communication, it's not very clear what all this is about.
 

Geki-D

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What if this is true, but the PS5 will sell for $100 more?
The most powerful one will be the most expensive and probably the one to come out last. The most expensive console released later has generally not been the best selling one. We're all talking about power, MS love to brag about power but power has yet to be a winning formula for them.

I reckon if the PS5 is less powerful it'll be because they're aiming for a lower price point and beating MS to market and seeing as we already know both are using Navi & Zen2, the power difference will be so little, actually being the cheapest and first out will be what gives a system the edge.

MS have said Holiday 2020, Sony have just said no next gen system before may 2020. Sony now know MS won't release before the holiday season.
 

Shmunter

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I don't think they got caught with their pants down. Both Sony and Microsoft don't know what each other are doing and that couldn't have been more apparent. Each of them want the most powerful console crown, but in the end, I think they will both end up with the same machine give or take a few Mhz.
Unless there is a logistics decision to not build the best console, e.g. to get a price advantage.

There could very well be $100 gap, and specs to reflect it.

Edit: looks like I’m just repeating what many others have already said. I’ll get my coat.
 
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LittleBusters

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Unless there is a logistics decision to not build the best console, e.g. to get a price advantage.

There could very well be $100 gap, and specs to reflect it.

Edit: looks like I’m just repeating what many others have already said. I’ll get my coat.
Microsoft better make sure the base SKU of Anaconda is priced the same as PS5's base SKU. They can go wild after that.
 

DanielsM

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Microsoft better make sure the base SKU of Anaconda is priced the same as PS5's base SKU. They can go wild after that.
If they cared about sales they wouldn't have sold the digital edition for $200-250. The hardware has to be able to live on its own.
 

Shmunter

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Microsoft better make sure the base SKU of Anaconda is priced the same as PS5's base SKU. They can go wild after that.
The only reason they would build a base system is if they can undercut the competitor. If that’s off the table there would be no reason to also release a niche system at the beginning of the gen.
 
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Ovech-King

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Based on those information (original post) and some leaks , it would make sense for Sony mainly to back up the VR requirements. Scarlett will apparently be 24Gb Gddr6 14 Gbps at 672Gb/s. And if the leaks are correct , PS5 COULD end up at potential 24Gb Gddr6 18 Gbps 864Gb/s which look at that... is 30% more than Scarlett. We'll have to wait and see Sony final specs of course
 
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vpance

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Based on those information (original post) and some leaks , it would make sense for Sony mainly to back up the VR requirements. Scarlett will apparently be 24Gb Gddr6 14 Gbps at 672Gb/s. And if the leaks are correct , PS5 COULD end up at potential 24Gb Gddr6 18 Gbps 864Gb/s which look at that... is 30% more than Scarlett. We'll have to wait and see Sony final specs of course
880 Gb/s was part of OsirisBlack original leak back in Nov.

He also posted:
7nm Navi GPU 2.1
18GDDR5

30% more power than Scarlett is making more sense now with Phil's recent comments downplaying the upcoming visual differences and promoting services instead.
 

ZywyPL

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Here's my theory - since MS announced hardware support for RT, and Sony didn't, I think that's where the difference will come from - some of the XB2 APU die area will be sacrificed for RT, whereas PS5 will use the same space for more traditional CU's/TFs, just like XB1 has 32MB ESRAM on board, while PS4 has more CUs instead.
 

Armorian

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Here's my theory - since MS announced hardware support for RT, and Sony didn't, I think that's where the difference will come from - some of the XB2 APU die area will be sacrificed for RT, whereas PS5 will use the same space for more traditional CU's/TFs, just like XB1 has 32MB ESRAM on board, while PS4 has more CUs instead.
With that, RT would be the new SRAM. Partial RT that will be used trough NG is nothing to write home about, reflections, shadows and GI - out of those only GI is worth something but performance hit is massive.
 

R600

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880 Gb/s was part of OsirisBlack original leak back in Nov.

He also posted:
7nm Navi GPU 2.1
18GDDR5

30% more power than Scarlett is making more sense now with Phil's recent comments downplaying the upcoming visual differences and promoting services instead.
Prepare to be severly disappointed. Just looking at Scarlett die size, its VERY big, especially considering its 7nm node therefore more expensive mm2 v mm2 in comparison to 16nm and 28nm nodes.

PS5 can be stronger, but considering where MS is shooting and what we can see from die size, it would be severly expensive and big for relatively minor increase in TF (because Scarlett will already be very much TDP/size limited)
 

Mass Shift

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Just a quick question. Are any of these developers claiming that the PS5 is more powerful able to determine if Sony's RT solution is hardware or software based yet?
 

FrostyJ93

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So I mean I imagine both will be better than eachother in certain areas. In the end it does not really matter. As long as the games are there I am there.
 

it_wasn't_me

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Just a quick question. Are any of these developers claiming that the PS5 is more powerful able to determine if Sony's RT solution is hardware or software based yet?
Well, according to Matt ( dunno hoe many of you remember him and he was member here before and one of the most valuable, like Shinobi ), PS5 will have hardware RT, just like new Xbox.

 

oldergamer

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I dont know why anyone thinks sony is going to be more powerful next gen. How is it they have final hardware and dev kits out at the same time as MS ( i actually think MS has yet to put out final hardware) and it will somehow be better?

Design goals and timing are what determines which system is going to be more powerful. Sony is using off the shelf pc parts with little customization. MS has been more involved with customizing pc parts since start of last generation.

Sony lucked out that ms had different design goals (a stupid focus on tv watching capabilities and budget constraint without a focus on games) and custom hardware akin to the 360. If sony didnt luck out with gddr memory last minute, i bet xbox one would have out performed ps4 in many areas.

In terms of power generations it goes....

Xbox more powerful the ps2. (Ps2 cpu was faster)

Xbox 360 was more powerful then ps3. Ps3s cpu was far superior but harder to realize. 360 beat it out in bandwidth, gpu features and memory. Ps3 cpu had to be used for geometry processing due to the weaker gpu. Also the segmented memory meant games had lower res textures or lower video resolution. Just about every single 3rd party game proved the above.

Ps4 was more powerful then xbone

Xbone 1X is more powerful the ps4 pro
 
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it_wasn't_me

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I dont know why anyone thinks sony is going to be more powerful next gen. How is it they have final hardware and dev kits out at the same time as MS ( i actually think MS has yet to put out final hardware) and it will somehow be better?

Design goals and timing are what determines which system is going to be more powerful. Sony is using off the shelf pc parts with little customization. MS has been more involved with customizing pc parts since start of last generation.

Sony lucked out that ms had different design goals (a stupid focus on tv watching capabilities and budget constraint without a focus on games) and custom hardware akin to the 360. If sony didnt luck out with gddr memory last minute, i bet xbox one would have out performed ps4 in many areas.

In terms of power generations it goes....

Xbox more powerful the ps2. (Ps2 cpu was faster)

Xbox 360 was more powerful then ps3. Ps3s cpu was far superior but harder to realize. 360 beat it out in bandwidth, gpu features and memory. Ps3 cpu had to be used for geometry processing due to the weaker gpu. Also the segmented memory meant games had lower res textures or lower video resolution. Just about every single 3rd party game proved the above.

Ps4 was more powerful then xbone

Xbone 1X is more powerful the ps4 pro
Overall PS3 was more powerful than X360 when you look the overall GFLOPS, but X360 wasn't that complicated. Cell was a damn beast and it could draw graphics alone without GPU. In was on par in GFLOPS compared to X360 GPU
 
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CJY

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Im going to come out and say it, I think all this hype and hyperbole about anaconda being the most powerful is just that, hype and hyperbole. Microsoft hyped e3 2019 to be their biggest show ever and it was a dud. Phil said he wants crackdown 3 to be a pillar of Xbox first party and its at best a laughing stock. MS planned sony would launch 2019 with a 8 terraflop PS5 so of course it was easy to one up one year later. After Navi got delayed and PS5 got resigned MS got caught with their pants down, again. All my opinion of course.
Butbutbut, some people had a smile plastered across their face the whole time while playing that game, which must mean it was a raging success, right?
 

SaucyJack

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I dont know why anyone thinks sony is going to be more powerful next gen. How is it they have final hardware and dev kits out at the same time as MS ( i actually think MS has yet to put out final hardware) and it will somehow be better?

Design goals and timing are what determines which system is going to be more powerful. Sony is using off the shelf pc parts with little customization. MS has been more involved with customizing pc parts since start of last generation.

Sony lucked out that ms had different design goals (a stupid focus on tv watching capabilities and budget constraint without a focus on games) and custom hardware akin to the 360. If sony didnt luck out with gddr memory last minute, i bet xbox one would have out performed ps4 in many areas.

In terms of power generations it goes....

Xbox more powerful the ps2. (Ps2 cpu was faster)

Xbox 360 was more powerful then ps3. Ps3s cpu was far superior but harder to realize. 360 beat it out in bandwidth, gpu features and memory. Ps3 cpu had to be used for geometry processing due to the weaker gpu. Also the segmented memory meant games had lower res textures or lower video resolution. Just about every single 3rd party game proved the above.

Ps4 was more powerful then xbone

Xbone 1X is more powerful the ps4 pro
Of course PS5 could be more powerful but clearly we don’t know this will be the final position, we’re a good year away from that. All we know is that the current PS5 devkit is rumoured to be more powerful than the current Xbox devkit.

Don’t really know what point you’re trying to make comparing previous models though.

The Xbox launched 18 months after the PS2 and the One X a year after the Pro so the power difference on those is kind of a given.

The PS4/XBO was about competing design priorities, which is also true to an extent in relation to to the PS3/360. THe PS3 and 360 were also engineered radically differently.

None of this is particularly relevant to the PS5/Scarlett comparison. This will totally be about design priorities and architecture and component decisions made in support of this.
 

demigod

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I dont know why anyone thinks sony is going to be more powerful next gen. How is it they have final hardware and dev kits out at the same time as MS ( i actually think MS has yet to put out final hardware) and it will somehow be better?

Design goals and timing are what determines which system is going to be more powerful. Sony is using off the shelf pc parts with little customization. MS has been more involved with customizing pc parts since start of last generation.

Sony lucked out that ms had different design goals (a stupid focus on tv watching capabilities and budget constraint without a focus on games) and custom hardware akin to the 360. If sony didnt luck out with gddr memory last minute, i bet xbox one would have out performed ps4 in many areas.

In terms of power generations it goes....

Xbox more powerful the ps2. (Ps2 cpu was faster)

Xbox 360 was more powerful then ps3. Ps3s cpu was far superior but harder to realize. 360 beat it out in bandwidth, gpu features and memory. Ps3 cpu had to be used for geometry processing due to the weaker gpu. Also the segmented memory meant games had lower res textures or lower video resolution. Just about every single 3rd party game proved the above.

Ps4 was more powerful then xbone

Xbone 1X is more powerful the ps4 pro
The spin is real with this one.
 

mejin

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people should remember that Sony really want to stand by "the best place to play" and not "play anywhere you want" of MS.

What if this is true, but the PS5 will sell for $100 more?
you mean $500 x $400?

cause there is zero chance for dat $600 price tag.
 
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Three

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Sony will win simply by not confusing the customer with multiple SKUs. Phil will talk about headwind.
They will release a how to buy a PS5 video. It will be Shu in front of a counter asking 'can I have a PS5' the clerk will hand it over with a big grin and they gently bow to eachother.
 
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Mass Shift

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Well, according to Matt ( dunno hoe many of you remember him and he was member here before and one of the most valuable, like Shinobi ), PS5 will have hardware RT, just like new Xbox.

Okay, sounds good. Thanks for the link. After reading his posts at length, he seems to also believe that nobody (including the devs claiming it) knows how powerful the consoles are because none are actually locked down yet. He also believes Anaconda and PS5 are within tweaking distance of each other.

So the insiders have already begun contradicting each other.