• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PlayStation 6, Xbox Next Could Deliver The Biggest Generational Leap With Machine Learning; Current Generation Was Oversold

Topher

Gold Member
Yeah I get some of that and no doubt it takes time. But dont game engines come with the tools to help with that? I wonder if the problem isnt more linked to game length expectations and building and implementing all the content and all the numerous cutscenes etc we have today. I remember when Far Cry 5 came out and players could build large sections of the world, with loads of assets easily deployable.

Game lengths vary, but I don't think we are seeing many games with much longer game lengths than last gen. Someone else will have to chime in on this because I don't know the answer on game engines. From my chair, all I'm seeing is improved graphics and frame rate, for the most part. Could be just that everyone is chasing Gaas dollars. Not really sure.
 

MarkMe2525

Gold Member
I know many don't think so but nothing has changed my mind we will get the next gen Xbox likely 2 years ahead of the PS6, especially since they skipped the pro model this time around

Maybe something has changed in the last few months at castle green but it hasn't made its way into the "grapevine" if it has
Breaking from Sony's release cadence is their best bet. Starting with the XB1, Sony and MS are essentially forced to use the same technological foundations when designing their systems. If they are price restrained (which they are), there is only so much power available at a particular price point at any given point in time.

MS shooting for a more staggered release date (in relation to Sony's offerings) allows them to integrate tech that allows for meaningful differentiation. Combine that with the value proposition of getting a "next gen" console two years before the competition, it seems like a solid strategy. I imagine this move could potentially grow the percentage of console gamers who own both Sony and MS platforms.

Of course, they could also fall flat on their face and eat shit 😁
 

King Dazzar

Member
Game lengths vary, but I don't think we are seeing many games with much longer game lengths than last gen. Someone else will have to chime in on this because I don't know the answer on game engines. From my chair, all I'm seeing is improved graphics and frame rate, for the most part. Could be just that everyone is chasing Gaas dollars. Not really sure.
True. Maybe game engines simply have a lot more options available so that in itself makes things more challenging. And people expect a higher concentration of assets and new graphical enhancements in a game world. I was just in my mind thinking about say modding Skyrim. And whilst artwork for textures and meshes took time and skill. It was the guys writing scripts for missions to move NPC's around and implement mission structure that were on another level of complexity and code understanding.

But you're right, there's no doubt far much more to consider now graphically.
 
Xbox or more specifically Sarah Bond said this month's ago, Xbox are probably ahead in the next gen race if they're talking about it already. PS are still to reveal the Pro PS5 which means they're years away from a PS6.
 

Mobilemofo

Member
I've been saying it for a while now, but the industry really does need to find a solution to the costs of making a game. It simply can't go on. It's ridiculous.
 

digdug2

Member
PS are still to reveal the Pro PS5 which means they're years away from a PS6.
Isn't that what we want, though? Thanks to chip shortages and supply chain issues affecting PS5 sales for years, games are still being developed for PS4/PS5 compatibility. I would be pretty damn disappointed to see them already moving onto PS6.
 

King Dazzar

Member
Xbox or more specifically Sarah Bond said this month's ago, Xbox are probably ahead in the next gen race if they're talking about it already. PS are still to reveal the Pro PS5 which means they're years away from a PS6.
Which sounds great until you realise no-one knows what the next Xbox even means. If you know then it'd be great to share. Is it a just a store fronted high end PC, is it just a handheld, is it nothing and solely a reliance on streaming via an app? Is it even a console?
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Which sounds great until you realise no-one knows what the next Xbox even means. If you know then it'd be great to share. Is it a just a store fronted high end PC, is it just a handheld, is it nothing and solely a reliance on streaming via an app? Is it even a console?
Its not going to be the traditional console that people are used to from Xbox, I would bet large sums of money on that
 
Isn't that what we want, though? Thanks to chip shortages and supply chain issues affecting PS5 sales for years, games are still being developed for PS4/PS5 compatibility. I would be pretty damn disappointed to see them already moving onto PS6.
Yeah probably, Xbox have to at least do something different so going full next gen early is probably their only option.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
PS6 is 2028, RDNA6 is near release, so mix RDNA5 and 6, can be easy take 4090lvl. Even mid RDNA4 gonna be between 7900XT/XTX, so 30% not hard for RDNA5.5 lvl gpu
I would love to see the "easily", but i remain skeptical
 
Which sounds great until you realise no-one knows what the next Xbox even means. If you know then it'd be great to share. Is it a just a store fronted high end PC, is it just a handheld, is it nothing and solely a reliance on streaming via an app? Is it even a console?
Then what's Bond talking about? It's obviously powerful otherwise you don't make comments like "invested in the next generation road map. And what we're really focused on there is delivering the largest technological leap you will have ever seen in a hardware generation"

That to me sounds like a custom designed bespoke console not a off the shelf PC hybrid.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Then what's Bond talking about? It's obviously powerful otherwise you don't make comments like "invested in the next generation road map. And what we're really focused on there is delivering the largest technological leap you will have ever seen in a hardware generation"

That to me sounds like a custom designed bespoke console not a off the shelf PC hybrid.

Doesn't sound like anything specific to me, but I think it is telling that are not using the word "console" at all.
 

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Sony and I don't think even MS ever once oversold or promised native 4k next gen games. The only thing I think was oversold in that regard was Series S promising just a reduction to 1440p but instead suffered much lower resolutions, half framerate games and missing features.
sony-removed-the-claims-of-ps5-being-able-to-do-8k-from-v0-g477lq2mxk4d1.jpg
 

King Dazzar

Member
Then what's Bond talking about? It's obviously powerful otherwise you don't make comments like "invested in the next generation road map. And what we're really focused on there is delivering the largest technological leap you will have ever seen in a hardware generation"

That to me sounds like a custom designed bespoke console not a off the shelf PC hybrid.
It does, and I hope you're right. But I simply dont trust or know what Xbox are going to do from one moment to the next. I have an XSX and it would be great to have confidence in the brand again and its future. But thats not where I am with Xbox today.
 

Three

Member
Sony and MS aren't promising native 4k next gen games with that printed on the box. It's just the supported output/features. Some games can be 4k native. It's even more stupid when you realise the previous gen Xbox One X had 4k printed on the box too.
 
Last edited:

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Sony and MS aren't promising native 4k next gen games with that printed on the box. It's just the supported output/features. Some games can be 4k native. It's even more stupid when you realise the previous gen Xbox One X had 4k printed on the box too.
4k is only 1 thing. Native.
 

Three

Member
4k is only 1 thing. Native.
Um, no it's not. Besides advertising hardware support means nothing in terms of releases. printing BluRay on a box doesn't mean every release is bluray and you can't get DVD only releases. Just like printing "Super Audio CD" on the box doesn't mean it's a promise that every release is on Super Audio. It just means the hardware can support that format.
 
Last edited:

PatientGamer

Gold Member
Not gonna touch the next gen of consoles for as long as possible tbh. Every game will be a PS5/PS6 game anyway and I have no interest in getting an 8k TV or whatever nonsense they'll try sell us next time.
 

rm082e

Member
Which sounds great until you realise no-one knows what the next Xbox even means. If you know then it'd be great to share. Is it a just a store fronted high end PC, is it just a handheld, is it nothing and solely a reliance on streaming via an app? Is it even a console?
Moore's Law Is Dead has been somewhat reliable over the years, but still take everything as rumor and speculation. That said, this bit caught my attention back in February:



He notes that Sony had been working on the design for the PS6 with AMD for "over a year" (so at least 18 months right now, since this video is from 6 months ago), meanwhile Microsoft had just finally signed a contract to start working on the next Xbox design.

That really stuck out to me because we know from the ABK court case that Sony said they were looking at 2028 for a PS6 launch. So if Microsoft were trying to get their next generation of hardware out a year or two before Sony, but they're starting development a year later, that seems like a really tight timeline. One possible way to square that is Sony may be looking to do a lot of custom work and develop a box that can heavily leverage the ML stuff like Nvidia is doing with their GPUs, where as Xbox may be looking at a more off-the-shelf hardware implementation.
 

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Um, no it's not. Besides advertising hardware support means nothing in terms of releases. printing BluRay on a box doesn't mean every release is bluray and you can't get DVD only releases. Just like printing "Super Audio CD" on the box doesn't mean it's a promise that every release is on Super Audio. It just means the hardware can support that format.
It is. And besides that advertising that hardware supports but very few games using it is the very definition of overselling it.
 

Senua

Gold Member
Um, no it's not. Besides advertising hardware support means nothing in terms of releases. printing BluRay on a box doesn't mean every release is bluray and you can't get DVD only releases. Just like printing "Super Audio CD" on the box doesn't mean it's a promise that every release is on Super Audio. It just means the hardware can support that format.
When people say 4k, it's assumed to be 3840x2160 native, hence why people usually clarify if they're using DLSS or other upscaling techniques. Just like when people used to say 1080p, you'd assume native.
 
Last edited:

Three

Member
When people say 4k, it's assumed to be 3840x2160 nature, hence why people usually clarify if they're using DLSS or other upscaling techniques. Just like when people used to say 1080p, you'd assume native.
It is. And besides that advertising that hardware supports but very few games using it is the very definition of overselling it.

Absolute nonsense when it comes to these being printed on boxes for hardware though. This would be like saying that a TV that has "Full HD" on the box is promising all content you see will be 1080p when that's not what it means. It's just giving you details about hardware support for the format. There are 4k native games on PS5 and XSX too.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
I agree that every generation is oversold and consoles have to cut corners to have games run on them but the big problem this gen is the games from Sony and microsoft.

Cross gen, weak assed sequels with little going for them. It's a very poor generation for microsoft and playstation.
 

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Absolute nonsense when it comes to these being printed on boxes for hardware though. This would be like saying that a TV that has "Full HD" on the box is promising all content you see will be 1080p when that's not what it means. It's just giving you details about hardware support for the format. There are 4k native games on PS5 and XSX too.
Yeah, yeah. And the fact that Sony removed 8k from the box means that the console doesn't support it anymore. /s

No one is saying nothing about all content being like the advertised. "Oversold" is the key word of the thread and discussion.
 

Three

Member
Yeah, yeah. And the fact that Sony removed 8k from the box means that the console doesn't support it anymore. /s

No one is saying nothing about all content being like the advertised. "Oversold" is the key word of the thread and discussion.
Because it actually doesn't support the 8K format that's why. It cannot output 8k. Even the native 8k PS5 game The Touryst downsamples its 8K render to 4K output.
 
Last edited:

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I think we’re getting to the point now where most people (outside of NeoGaf, ResetEra and Digital Foundry) are more than happy with the current level of graphics. Barely anyone outside America has a 70” TV so resolution isn’t as important as many here think.

Just look at how popular the PS4 still is 4 years after its successor launched, or how well the Switch is still selling.

I’ll likely get a PS6 as they’ve consistently kept me happy, but from here on out any improvements should be about reducing costs, both for consumers and developers.

Who really thought we would get 4k\60fps with the highest quality next-gen graphics on the PS5 and Xbox Series X?
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Breaking from Sony's release cadence is their best bet. Starting with the XB1, Sony and MS are essentially forced to use the same technological foundations when designing their systems. If they are price restrained (which they are), there is only so much power available at a particular price point at any given point in time.

MS shooting for a more staggered release date (in relation to Sony's offerings) allows them to integrate tech that allows for meaningful differentiation. Combine that with the value proposition of getting a "next gen" console two years before the competition, it seems like a solid strategy. I imagine this move could potentially grow the percentage of console gamers who own both Sony and MS platforms.

Of course, they could also fall flat on their face and eat shit 😁

This would be a disaster for Xbox if they release a next-gen system in 2026. The Xbox brand would be 100% dead by 2030. I hope they DON'T do this as we need Xbox around. Anybody that knows how hardware works and how insufficent MS has been over the last 10 years, knows it CAN NOT WORK.
 

LakeOf9

Member
So they lied about what these consoles can do but next time around they will not lie for sure, we should definitely be hyped for next gen because the capabilities of those consoles will not be oversold. Yes.
 

Three

Member
Who really thought we would get 4k\60fps with the highest quality next-gen graphics on the PS5 and Xbox Series X?
Absolutely nobody. Especially DF of all people who have been calling for the "Post-Resolution Era" since the beginning of this gen at every opportunity. Richard saying he's going to stop counting pixels over and over.

It's fucking bizarre to hear Alex now pretending like 4k native is what he expected from consoles, especially with quotes like this in 2020 when they launched:

The concept of native resolution is becoming less and less relevant in the modern era of games and instead, image reconstruction techniques are coming to the fore. The idea here is remarkably simple: in the age of the 4K display, why expend so much GPU power in painting 8.3m pixels per frame when instead, processing power can be directed at higher quality pixels instead, interpolated up to an ultra HD output?


But sure he expected 4k native 60fps output from the consoles now. DF were saying the PS5 is going to be a 30fps machine even, which they were absolutely wrong on.
 
Last edited:

Klik

Member
I really dont understand that push for 4K in PS5/Xbox. I would rather have better visual fidelity at 1080p than just better textures at 4k.


I guess we're gonna have to wait for PS6/Next Xbox to have true UE5 graphics,visual fidelity and game design..Most of games in this gen still feel like last gen upgraded games.
 
I agree that every generation is oversold and consoles have to cut corners to have games run on them but the big problem this gen is the games from Sony and microsoft.

Cross gen, weak assed sequels with little going for them. It's a very poor generation for microsoft and playstation.
We still got next year before you write off the entire generation and with GTA 6 we could get a true next gen masterpiece.
 

Three

Member


we barely had any AAA 1st party games and were talking about next gen?
Guess who's possibly launching next gen early and would be pushing for this narrative?

DF saying that we need a new gen for AI upscaling and somehow this gen is a letdown due to a lack of 4k native is stupid and contradictory. You don't even need a new gen for that.
 

rodrigolfp

Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Because it actually doesn't support the 8K format that's why. It cannot output 8k. Even the native 8k PS5 game The Touryst downsamples its 8K render to 4K output.
So, they oversold it.

And 8k internally downsampled is still 8k.
 
Top Bottom