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PlayStation Earbuds and Project Q Announced Announced - 8 inch screen remote device

SEGAvangelist

SEGAvangelist

Gold Member
GHG said:
See, this is why we have the problems that we do.

For $50 more you can get a real handheld from valve. It plays pretty much everything and anything you could want it to. It will also stream from the PS5, work with xCloud etc if that's what you really need (you don't).

For the same price (or less at the right retailer) you can get a real handheld with an OLED screen from Nintendo.

And yet here you are calling some streaming focused abomination "fantastic". Ridiculous.
Click to expand...
I think the streaming devices like the Logitech G Cloud and the Abxylute are really cool. You get much better battery life than something like the Steam Deck or ROG Ally and with Moonlight, Psplay and Xbxplay apps you get 1080p 60fps streaming, remote over the internet play, plus a decent handheld for emulation. I have 1gbps up and down so internet streaming is better than xcloud for me.

The problem with this Sony device is that it only works for PS5 games on your console. That's terrible, and too bad, because an 8 inch display with PS5 controls and haptics sounds amazing. Now if someone can hack it to have G Cloud type functionality...
 
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ThaMonkeyClaw

ThaMonkeyClaw

Member
Draugoth said:






Sony Interactive Entertainment has announced a new PlayStation streaming portable device, ‘Project Q’.

Announced during a PlayStation Showcase event on Wednesday, Project Q is described as “a dedicated device that enables you to stream any game form your PS5 console using remote play over wi-fi”.

According to SIE, the device has an 8-inch 1080p HD screen and all the buttons and features of the DualSense wireless controller.


Fw7AVJiaEAM4DV_

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Fw7AbhlacAA5c_N
Click to expand...


no-one-cares-noboday-cares.gif
 
PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
deriks said:
Because we don't have other screens laying around in the house, right?!
Click to expand...
You completely miss the point if that's what you think The WiiU tablet controller is still a much better solution than any random screen or remote app on device.

I'm just hoping the price is good because getting more time to play games like GT7 on a turnkey tablet controller with full Dualsense features is definitely something I'll buy.

Hopefully the device does really well and the cost saving from selling these and doing as a Pack-in on a PS5 slim will lower the BOM for PlayStation to do another dedicated handheld like the Vita at a great price with low risk to them.
 
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01011001

01011001

Banned
PaintTinJr said:
You completely miss the point if that's what you think The WiiU tablet controller is still a much better solution than any random screen or remote app on device
Click to expand...

this will use the normal remote play of the PS5, which means it will be exactly as capable as a random phone with a clip-on controller...

so these will give you basically the same experience in terms of quality at probably a fraction of the price:
81rl84C14JS._AC_SX679_.jpg

61BA8-AeoRL._SL1500_.jpg




this is in no way comparable to the Wii U gamepad. the Wii U has a specific chip that directly sends the GPU's framebuffer to the GamePad.
It's purpose build hardware that is only used to do this one thing.
so basically there's no step in between the GPU encoding a finished frame, and it being sent to the controller. as soon as a frame is ready it's instantly transfered over with a direct connection through a dedicated chip that's completely independent from the consoles internet connection.

comparison, Wii U GamePad vs Sony's PlayStation branded 3D TV. basically the same, with a slight advantage for the GamePad



the PS5 however does send its video stream by first encoding it into a lower bitrate codec, then sends this over its network chip through wifi or ethernet cable to your router, and the router then sends it over wifi to the device you're using remote play on.
the lowest input lag I've ever seen measured for remote play is about 40ms of additional lag, which is awful... xcloud literally has lower latency than that in games that use their newest cloud SDK, and that's a streaming service running on servers far away from your device.

and as soon as anyone uses your home network while you're playing it will get worse, which will not happen on Wii U either due to its completely independent chip that's responsible for the video signal
 
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coffinbirth

coffinbirth

Member
Not making a portable PS4 and instead opting for this underwhelming device is a goddamned shame.

Not having the DualSense Edge replaceable analog sticks on said underwhelming device is basically AIDS.

Those earbuds are slick as fuck though.
 
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PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
01011001 said:
this will use the normal remote play of the PS5, which means it will be exactly as capable as a random phone with a clip-on controller...

so these will give you basically the same experience in terms of quality at probably a fraction of the price:
81rl84C14JS._AC_SX679_.jpg

61BA8-AeoRL._SL1500_.jpg




this is in no way comparable to the Wii U gamepad. the Wii U has a specific chip that directly sends the GPU's framebuffer to the GamePad.
It's purpose build hardware that is only used to do this one thing.
so basically there's no step in between the GPU encoding a finished frame, and it being sent to the controller. as soon as a frame is ready it's instantly transfered over with a direct connection through a dedicated chip that's completely independent from the consoles internet connection.

comparison, Wii U GamePad vs Sony's PlayStation branded 3D TV. basically the same, with a slight advantage for the GamePad



the PS5 however does send its video stream by first encoding it into a lower bitrate codec, then sends this over its network chip through wifi or ethernet cable to your router, and the router then sends it over wifi to the device you're using remote play on.
the lowest input lag I've ever seen measured for remote play is about 40ms of additional lag, which is awful... xcloud literally has lower latency than that in games that use their newest cloud SDK, and that's a streaming service running on servers far away from your device.

and as soon as anyone uses your home network while you're playing it will get worse, which will not happen on Wii U either due to its completely independent chip that's responsible for the video signal
Click to expand...

Where are you getting the technical info that this won't use a secure proprietary PAN with a PTP connection with the PS5 when used in a house - bypassing a router completely?
 
THE DUCK

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
PaintTinJr said:
Where are you getting the technical info that this won't use a secure proprietary PAN with a PTP connection with the PS5 when used in a house - bypassing a router completely?
Click to expand...

I think they already said it would use your house's wifi.

But that said, I don't agree with what 01011001 said, it's not the same as a crappy unbalanced clip that drains your phone batter, and it's a 50% larger screen. Plus proper controls instead of crappy ones.
 
PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
THE DUCK said:
I think they already said it would use your house's wifi.

But that said, I don't agree with what 01011001 said, it's not the same as a crappy unbalanced clip that drains your phone batter, and it's a 50% larger screen. Plus proper controls instead of crappy ones.
Click to expand...
Totally agree, a specific piece of hardware that exactly mirrors the dualsense to be used that way is a different prospect IMO.

As for the uses your wifi. Wifi is a signal spectrum. The WiiU tablet controller technically uses bluetooth/WiFI too because it operates in those loosely regulated frequency ranges in which communication must accept interference from devices sharing that radio spectrum.

IIRC PSP and Vita both have a remote play system that can operate directly with the console, and until PlayStation say they've put very little effort into the turnkey nature of the device for non-technical parents to just work in a house, I will still expect this to have an experience closer to a WiiU tablet than the PSP/PSVita or PS remoteplay app
 
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THE DUCK

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
PaintTinJr said:
Totally agree, a specific piece of hardware that exactly mirrors the dualsense to be used that way is a different prospect IMO.

As for the uses your wifi. Wifi is a signal spectrum. The WiiU tablet controller technically uses bluetooth/WiFI too because it operates in those loosely regulated frequency ranges in which communication must accept interference from devices sharing that radio spectrum.

IIRC PSP and Vita both have a remote play system that can operate directly with the console, and until PlayStation say they've put very little effort into the turnkey nature of the device for non-technical parents to just work in a house, I will still expect this to have an experience closer to a WiiU tablet than the PSP/PSVita or PS remoteplay app
Click to expand...

I was secretly hoping they would design this with a USB transmitter into the PS5 and custom bandwidth receiver in the unit (to eliminate bad WIFI homes from giving a crappy experience), however, likely the gains vs the cost ruled it out.
 
01011001

01011001

Banned
PaintTinJr said:
Where are you getting the technical info that this won't use a secure proprietary PAN with a PTP connection with the PS5 when used in a house - bypassing a router completely?
Click to expand...

because the console literally only has 1 wifi capable chip on the motherboard? this means whatever the console sends to any device has to go through there, together with every other piece of data. that alone would be worse than what the Wii U does.
it might connect directly to the device, but it will do this through the same chip that simultaneously has to handle network traffic.

also the Wii U goes further than that, the way it compresses the final frame down to be sent over was important for the latency.
Sony's way of sending the image so far practically has been literally the worst in the industry, it's speculation why that is, but it has most likely to do with either how the image is compressed or at what stage the compression is done.

comparing remote play between Xbox, Steam, Nvidia and Sony shows Sony is the slowest, often by a large margine

the Wii U will ready the next frame that needs to be displayed on the controller together with the frame sent to the TV. it's basically being compressed in small chunks while the frame is being drawn, which had to be extremely efficient because many games rendered different things on each screen.
Apparently chunks of uncompleted frames get started to be transferred to the gamepad before the frame is fully drawn. so once the frame is finished all that needs to be sent over is a tiny final chunk of the full frame and an ok signal to tell the GamePad to display the new image.
so the GamePad basically has its own frame buffer that fills in near real time while the console's GPU is finishing drawing it.

It's likely that the biggest culprit of the little latency the Wii U had was down to the display of the gamepad rather than the process of sending over the data.

so it's the direct connection through a separate chip and the way the console's GPU is compressing and sending over the frame while it's still being finished rendering, that made it so reliable and fast.

I just don't see how Sony could retroactively achieve this over a single wifi chip and a system that wasn't designed with this as a core feature.
 
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FrankWza

FrankWza

Member
01011001 said:
this will use the normal remote play of the PS5, which means it will be exactly as capable as a random phone with a clip-on controller...

so these will give you basically the same experience in terms of quality at probably a fraction of the price:
81rl84C14JS._AC_SX679_.jpg

61BA8-AeoRL._SL1500_.jpg




this is in no way comparable to the Wii U gamepad. the Wii U has a specific chip that directly sends the GPU's framebuffer to the GamePad.
It's purpose build hardware that is only used to do this one thing.
so basically there's no step in between the GPU encoding a finished frame, and it being sent to the controller. as soon as a frame is ready it's instantly transfered over with a direct connection through a dedicated chip that's completely independent from the consoles internet connection.

comparison, Wii U GamePad vs Sony's PlayStation branded 3D TV. basically the same, with a slight advantage for the GamePad



the PS5 however does send its video stream by first encoding it into a lower bitrate codec, then sends this over its network chip through wifi or ethernet cable to your router, and the router then sends it over wifi to the device you're using remote play on.
the lowest input lag I've ever seen measured for remote play is about 40ms of additional lag, which is awful... xcloud literally has lower latency than that in games that use their newest cloud SDK, and that's a streaming service running on servers far away from your device.

and as soon as anyone uses your home network while you're playing it will get worse, which will not happen on Wii U either due to its completely independent chip that's responsible for the video signal
Click to expand...

Those clip ons are not great anymore because phones have gotten bigger and more importantly, heavier. The backbone-style are better but they should use double ports and make them switchblade-style for better phone and orientation compatibility(can't use foldable phones) And Please, they need to start putting back buttons on all of them.
 
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PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
01011001 said:
because the console literally only has 1 wifi capable chip on the motherboard? this means whatever the console sends to any device has to go through there, together with every other piece of data. that alone would be worse than what the Wii U does.
it might connect directly to the device, but it will do this through the same chip that simultaneously has to handle network traffic.

also the Wii U goes further than that, the way it compresses the final frame down to be sent over was important for the latency.
Sony's way of sending the image so far practically has been literally the worst in the industry, it's speculation why that is, but it has most likely to do with either how the image is compressed or at what stage the compression is done.

comparing remote play between Xbox, Steam, Nvidia and Sony shows Sony is the slowest, often by a large margine

the Wii U will ready the next frame that needs to be displayed on the controller together with the frame sent to the TV. it's basically being compressed in small chunks while the frame is being drawn, which had to be extremely efficient because many games rendered different things on each screen.
Apparently chunks of uncompleted frames get started to be transferred to the gamepad before the frame is fully drawn. so once the frame is finished all that needs to be sent over is a tiny final chunk of the full frame and an ok signal to tell the GamePad to display the new image.
so the GamePad basically has its own frame buffer that fills in near real time while the console's GPU is finishing drawing it.

It's likely that the biggest culprit of the little latency the Wii U had was down to the display of the gamepad rather than the process of sending over the data.

so it's the direct connection through a separate chip and the way the console's GPU is compressing and sending over the frame while it's still being finished rendering, that made it so reliable and fast.

I just don't see how Sony could retroactively achieve this over a single wifi chip and a system that wasn't designed with this as a core feature.
Click to expand...
You are getting hung up on separate chip which has no direct correlation to how well a Wifi 6 card in the PS5 can or can't be used by the PS5 OS in an PAN (effectively an AP bridge mode for the tablet controller) and continue in normal AP client mode or LAN mode at the same time for the PS5's normal internet connection - by utilising time division multiplexing.

The Wifi card can almost certainly operating two modes simultaneously (2.4GHz for wireless 802.11 B/G/N and 5GHz for 802.11 N/AC) and have them serve multiple devices at a time like any decent ARM router can with a fraction of the Switching capability of PS5, as router typically don't have+400GB/sec RAM bandwidth for the Wifi card DMA data packets, and don't have brawny high-end SMT capable 8 core laptop CPUs running north of 3GHz to facilitate the time division multiplexing tasks.

You are suggesting that Sony's way is the worst, yet offering no technical information or reputable source with specific experience in networking and video streaming algorithms IQ and PSNR trade offs, etc to support such a statement, and probably just repeating a DF opinion of what they "think" is better.

But even if that is the case, Sony's previous efforts aren't necessarily indicative of what they will do with this new device for easiest use, lowest latency, best IQ and audio. I love my WiiU, but even with dedicated silicon a proper solution using the PS5 hardware and this new tablet controller would best that easily. It is a network software and streaming software problem running on hardware 20x more powerful and using the latest advancements in Wifi spec hardware that is lightyears ahead of the non-standard 802.11b connection the WiiU tablet uses to connect to the WiiU IIRC.
 
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SeraphJan

SeraphJan

Member
The take that Q is the equivalent of Remote play software on phone with controller attached thus render it totally meaningless is almost as bad as saying Xbox is equivalent of plug-in a controller to a gaming PC.

Comparing this thing to Wii U Pad is even worst, Wii U's entire existence was relied on this gimmick, while this was just an accessory to please a certain niche. I understand Vita fans are upset, however this was never meant to be a Vita replacement.

Q will have its market due to convenience and compatibility (like native DualSense support you won't get on phone), of course it not going to be something huge, but it will still find its market as long as they don't went overboard with its pricing. An affordable price within $200 will likely find its niche.
 
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Cyberpunkd

Cyberpunkd

Member
MrMephistoX said:
This is the only reason I’d buy one otherwise if performance is only on par with remote play on my phone there’s no point.
Click to expand...
The Q has me interested in Backbone One - anyone has any feedback on it? I understand I can set up remote play and turn the PS5 remotely?

Also, does anyone know if the buttons on the PS edition will be remapped when playing Apple Arcade games?
 
THE DUCK

THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
Cyberpunkd said:
The Q has me interested in Backbone One - anyone has any feedback on it? I understand I can set up remote play and turn the PS5 remotely?

Also, does anyone know if the buttons on the PS edition will be remapped when playing Apple Arcade games?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be better to wait and get the q since it will have:

- much better controllers
- bigger screen
- won't kill your phone battery
- likely be more optimized = less lag

I suppose it can't do double duty though.
 
O

Ozriel

M$FT
TrebleShot said:
Have you tried it?
Someone asked me of my opinion on steam deck vs G cloud and I posted this:

So in terms of streaming there are a few reasons why I prefer it.

  1. I feel as though I am almost cheating, I have very high FPS, around 60 and on other devices such as the iPhone and macbook pro I can go to 120 fps from games on my PC, usually with supersampling down to my devices native res.
  2. I love the idea of saves carrying over from device to device and streaming essentially enables that there is continuity between all of my devices I can literally play the same game on any device regardless of platform if it has a screen and the app then we are good to go.
  3. The screens on most of my devices are better than the SD by orders of magnitude , for example the logitech g cloud screen is absolutely incredible.
  4. The tech is there, I have of course a great connection but I was in cyprus recently which is almost 3k miles from home and the wifi was a bit dodgy and it was still decent enough to play Ive also had the same experience with data.
  5. The tech is getting better and seems to accelerating at an exponential rate.
A big bulky device with fans kicking out noise and heat as well as terrible battery life seems quite backwards to me, id rather let a local machine do that and access it, the ease of use is incredible.
Click to expand...

You’re not going to get ‘terrible battery life’ out of the Steam deck while streaming.

And the value proposition for having access to a truly staggering library of games offline can’t be beat.

I can see some of the appeal for the Q’s display and familiar controllers, but it’s a fact that it’s crippled outside your house and requires you to run your console full tilt to play the games.
 
O

Ozriel

M$FT
THE DUCK said:
Wouldn't it be better to wait and get the q since it will have:

- much better controllers
- bigger screen
- won't kill your phone battery
- likely be more optimized = less lag

I suppose it can't do double duty though.
Click to expand...

Backbone is much cheaper, much more portable, can be used for any mobile game and the ‘won’t kill your battery’ talk is kinda moot if you’re only going to be using it at home just like the Q.

I guess it all depends on the price
 
Cyberpunkd

Cyberpunkd

Member
Ozriel said:
Backbone is much cheaper, much more portable, can be used for any mobile game and the ‘won’t kill your battery’ talk is kinda moot if you’re only going to be using it at home just like the Q.

I guess it all depends on the price
Click to expand...
Yes, plus I cannot imagine this being cheaper than 249€, more likely 299€+.
 
Davevil

Davevil

Member
it is sad to think that we have waited all this time to have a useless portable HW and who knows how long we will have to wait for something reminiscent of the glories of the PSP
 
TrebleShot

TrebleShot

Member
reksveks said:
Better than what. The deck or the switch?
Click to expand...
The deck, you cant stream games to a switch from a PC or PS5
Ozriel said:
You’re not going to get ‘terrible battery life’ out of the Steam deck while streaming.

And the value proposition for having access to a truly staggering library of games offline can’t be beat.

I can see some of the appeal for the Q’s display and familiar controllers, but it’s a fact that it’s crippled outside your house and requires you to run your console full tilt to play the games.
Click to expand...
well kind of agree but a couple of things, steam deck which I love by the way is ultimate access to everything except the screen is horrible and 16:10 meaning everything is letterboxed or zoomed in.

Also this Q - lite doesn’t look like a device for use as a portable , it’s huge it’s an 8 inch screen with a Dualsense attached the thing will make steam deck look small.

It’s a supplemental device for home use in my view.

The beauty of these machines for me is playing anywhere at home when the tv is being used and I want to chill somewhere else at home.

I don’t really game on the go to be honest .
 
R

reksveks

Member
TrebleShot said:
The deck, you cant stream games to a switch from a PC or PS5
Click to expand...
Cool, just want to be sure. The Deck screen imo is a PoS, this should be better but not hugely at least on paper. There is a handheld pc with good screens but sadly they do cost alot more.

I think this device lives and dies by the price.
 
StereoVsn

StereoVsn

Member
SEGAvangelist said:
I think the streaming devices like the Logitech G Cloud and the Abxylute are really cool. You get much better battery life than something like the Steam Deck or ROG Ally and with Moonlight, Psplay and Xbxplay apps you get 1080p 60fps streaming, remote over the internet play, plus a decent handheld for emulation. I have 1gbps up and down so internet streaming is better than xcloud for me.

The problem with this Sony device is that it only works for PS5 games on your console. That's terrible, and too had, because an 8 inch display with PS5 controls and haptics sounds amazing. Now if someone can hack it to have G Cloud type functionality...
Click to expand...
We don't know what the Sony device is though. It could be Android with Google Play...
 
HerjansEagleFeeder

HerjansEagleFeeder

Member
FalsettoVibe said:
Its ugly as heck but will buy if...
  • It is $199 or less
  • OLED
  • 1080p 60fps
  • Connects DIRECTLY to PS5 via Wifi 6 in my home (Similar to Wii U).
  • Has the ability to cloud stream PS Plus games.
Click to expand...
This is what made me wonder. Right now only PS Plus Premium members can cloud stream games, right? Is this device really meant to only be for those couple of people? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Are there more streaming related plans by Sony we don't know of, yet?
 
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