• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PlayStation Meeting announced. September 7th 3PM ET (PS4 Neo Reveal)

Right before the Neo's unveil, how do you feel about the system?

Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.
K

KennyLinder

Member
onQ123 said:
I-dont-believe-you.gif
Click to expand...

About what? :D

I've got no idea about rear USB ports, but based on PS system history I'd say the chances are slim to none.
 
S

sviri

Member
bitbydeath said:
Yes.
PS3 CPU was a beast.

PS3 CPU:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3_technical_specifications

PS4 CPU:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_4_technical_specifications
Click to expand...

That really put things into perspective for me. I'd always assumed that, even though PS4 had what people were calling a laptop cpu, a difference of 7-8 years surely meant that it's processor would still be more powerful than PS3's. So wait a minute, what was the reasoning behind the planned regression in cpu performance?
 
O

onQ123

Member
KennyLinder said:
About what? :D

I've got no idea about rear USB ports, but based on PS system history I'd say the chances are slim to none.
Click to expand...


About not knowing if anything changed. Not saying that you know for sure but I know you have heard a little something or hints at what might be changed.


You haven't heard anything about the memory maybe getting an upgrade?
 
K

KennyLinder

Member
onQ123 said:
About not knowing if anything changed. Not saying that you know for sure but I know you have heard a little something or hints at what might be changed.


You haven't heard anything about the memory maybe getting an upgrade?
Click to expand...

There were requests from internal teams a few months ago to ask for more RAM. I honestly don't know if more is getting added or not.
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
sviri said:
That really put things into perspective for me. I'd always assumed that, even though PS4 had what people were calling a laptop cpu, a difference of 7-8 years surely meant that it's processor would still be more powerful than PS3's. So wait a minute, what was the reasoning behind the planned regression in cpu performance?
Click to expand...

The flop count is misleading. Even though Cell was a beast in crunching numbers and general power terms at the time (even today its no slouch), utilizing that complicated architecture in games was very difficult and was almost 100% never going to be fully utilized anywhere near what its theoretical max was.

Only certain parts of the CPU could actually utilize most of its full potential(the SPU's), and on top of that, third party devs and even first party devs had to also actively sacrifice CPU power to prop up the weak GPU in the PS3 to keep par with the 360's stronger GPU, because the Cell could also do a lot of GPU graphics rendering as well.

The 360's CPU, the Xenon, was much more standardized and nowhere near as ambitious as PS3's CELL design, but it was much easier to get results out of and use, and as a result most 360 third party games ran better on that machine(in addition to the RAM design and stronger GPU of course)

The Jaguar in PS4 and XB1 follows that principle as well. Its FAR easier to use than Cell ever was, and so, in combination with the general architectural efficiency of a CPU made in 2013, you actually get far better results CPU wise in gaming on Jaguar than you would during Cell's applications.

When people talk about CPU power in the 8th gen, nothing should be contrasted with CELL, as that was a weird situation on its own. Instead, the contrast should be with Xenon, as that is far more comparable. Its already been theoretically benchmarked by a dev on Trials Fusion over on Beyond3D, and apparently an 8 core jaguar clocked at 1.6GHZ is around 2.5 to 3x as fast as Xenon is in general gaming usage.

Considering both XB1 and PS4 use 7 cores at this point for gaming, they are getting pretty close to that level.
 
N

NotSmartEnough

Member
KennyLinder said:
I've got no idea about rear USB ports, but based on PS system history I'd say the chances are slim to none.
Click to expand...

Please be wrong. I know it's a trivial aesthetic thing, but I'll hate having a USB cable permanently trailing from the front of the Neo to the back of the PSVR box.

The AUX socket for the camera is just a USB3 socket with a custom connector, so the motherboard design already caters for rear USB3. Please Sony, don't mess this up.

Also, what is going on with the rumour of an amended camera? Surely they won't bundle the camera with Neo if it's included in one of the PSVR bundles?
 
artsi

artsi

Member
My version of the Foxconn artist's work.

I guess it's cool. You could use the front side as a mini skateboard ramp, or plow snow with it.

ardkxSl.jpg
 
M

Markitron

Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
I really hope that is the design, it's exactly what I wanted.
 
O

onQ123

Member
NotSmartEnough said:
Please be wrong. I know it's a trivial aesthetic thing, but I'll hate having a USB cable permanently trailing from the front of the Neo to the back of the PSVR box.

The AUX socket for the camera is just a USB3 socket with a custom connector, so the motherboard design already caters for rear USB3. Please Sony, don't mess this up.

Also, what is going on with the rumour of an amended camera? Surely they won't bundle the camera with Neo if it's included in one of the PSVR bundles?
Click to expand...


Maybe the camera is going to help with 4K by doing eye tracking & foveated rendering
 
S

sviri

Member
Inuhanyou said:
The flop count is misleading. Even though Cell was a beast in crunching numbers and general power terms at the time (even today its no slouch), utilizing that complicated architecture in games was very difficult and was almost 100% never going to be fully utilized anywhere near what its theoretical max was.

Only certain parts of the CPU could actually utilize most of its full potential(the SPU's), and on top of that, third party devs and even first party devs had to also actively sacrifice CPU power to prop up the weak GPU in the PS3 to keep par with the 360's stronger GPU, because the Cell could also do a lot of GPU graphics rendering as well.

The 360's CPU, the Xenon, was much more standardized and nowhere near as ambitious as PS3's CELL design, but it was much easier to get results out of and use, and as a result most 360 third party games ran better on that machine(in addition to the RAM design and stronger GPU of course)

The Jaguar in PS4 and XB1 follows that principle as well. Its FAR easier to use than Cell ever was, and so, in combination with the general architectural efficiency of a CPU made in 2013, you actually get far better results CPU wise in gaming on Jaguar than you would during Cell's applications.

When people talk about CPU power in the 8th gen, nothing should be contrasted with CELL, as that was a weird situation on its own. Instead, the contrast should be with Xenon, as that is far more comparable. Its already been theoretically benchmarked by a dev on Trials Fusion over on Beyond3D, and apparently an 8 core jaguar clocked at 1.6GHZ is around 2.5 to 3x as fast as Xenon is in general gaming usage.

Considering both XB1 and PS4 use 7 cores at this point for gaming, they are getting pretty close to that level.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. So I'm guessing then that it isn't due to lack of cpu power that PS4/Neo would have trouble emulating PS3. Probably something more complicated.
 
N

NotSmartEnough

Member
onQ123 said:
Maybe the camera is going to help with 4K by doing eye tracking & foveated rendering
Click to expand...

Que? Not sure if you're joking, but foveated rendering requires the camera to be inside the headset, it also needs much higher resolution screens, doesn't it?

Edit: sorry I completely misunderstood your response.
 
V

Venom Fox

Banned
wapplew said:
Latest drawing from our fellow Foxconn artist.

133840z7rceya7tcepd7td.jpg
Click to expand...
How certain are we that this guy is the same person who posted the slim drawing? These leaked works of art seem like different people's to me.

That Neo is fuck ugly. It's gonna look like the Venom Snake clone of a PS2. Ugly, scarred and has a personality disorder...

Edit: It's literally a huge PS2. But without a disc tray.
 
P

pottuvoi

Banned
sviri said:
That really put things into perspective for me. I'd always assumed that, even though PS4 had what people were calling a laptop cpu, a difference of 7-8 years surely meant that it's processor would still be more powerful than PS3's. So wait a minute, what was the reasoning behind the planned regression in cpu performance?
Click to expand...
There are couple of factors.

The aim for Ps4 was to be easy programming and AMD CPUs aren't that impressive in terms of vector performance. (better SIMD would have given some nice boost to performance,)

Also due to end of Dennard scaling at around ~2005 etc., the serial performance increase from smaller transistors has pretty much stopped.
 
C

Carn82

Member
sviri said:
Thanks for that. So I'm guessing then that it isn't due to lack of cpu power that PS4/Neo would have trouble emulating PS3. Probably something more complicated.
Click to expand...

It would need to emulate a very complex architecture; it would need to be a massive cpu. I doubt any commercially available cpu would be up to that task, it would be easier to slap in a Cell chip. That's why we see a lot of ps3 remasters, not because of only 'easy money', but also because it makes an x86 version available. If Sony sticks with this architecture you might see a new The Last Of Us on ps5 or ps6 in 4k.
 
wapplew

wapplew

Member
Venom Fox said:
How certain are we that this guy is the same person who posted the slim drawing? These leaked works of art seem like different people's to me.

That Neo is fuck ugly. It's gonna look like the Venom Snake clone of a PS2. Ugly, scarred and has a personality disorder...

Edit: It's literally a huge PS2. But without a disc tray.
Click to expand...

Same poster. Unless his account got hacked.
 
P

pottuvoi

Banned
onQ123 said:
I'm hoping for about 512MB or more of HBM being used as cache
Click to expand...
Intel style L4 cache certainly would be interesting and would be nice for performance. (GPUs are bandwidth starwed and I'm sure that improved latency would be nice as well.)
Tweaked SIMD for CPU could be nice as well.

Really doubt that either of these happen.
 
V

Venom Fox

Banned
NotSmartEnough said:
My money is on a PS2-style disc tray.

How many UHD BD players on the market are slot-loaders? None. Neo needs to compete in this space as well as its new premium console one.
Click to expand...
Nah, they'll go slot load as usual.
kennyamr said:
it looks way different than the first drawing here showed.

I like the new design but Idk if it will end up being like that in the end.

9.5 more days.
Click to expand...
Exactly. The drawing from the other day was terrible and completely different from this one.
 
O

onQ123

Member
Carn82 said:
It would need to emulate a very complex architecture; it would need to be a massive cpu. I doubt any commercially available cpu would be up to that task, it would be easier to slap in a Cell chip. That's why we see a lot of ps3 remasters, not because of only 'easy money', but also because it makes an x86 version available. If Sony sticks with this architecture you might see a new The Last Of Us on ps5 or ps6 in 4k.
Click to expand...

I think Neo's APU could emulate Cell & RSX if it has cache & a chip to recompile some PS3 code into PS4 code.
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
onQ123 said:
I think Neo's APU could emulate Cell & RSX if it has cache & a chip to recompile some PS3 code into PS4 code.
Click to expand...

Jeff...is that you

*edit*

your right that they would need a chip, but it would have to be the Cell chip specifically, there is no other fixed function unit that could possibly emulate PS3 right now, especially in NEO's price bracket.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Sony sends out invites for September 7th "Playstation Meeting"
9
3K
Omnistalgic replied
PlayStation Event Announced for September
14
3K
Paul_Str337 replied
  • Poll
Sony confirms September 7 event where it will “share details about the PS Business''
0
268
kennyamr replied
Gameblog.fr: PS4 Neo to be announced on September 7 in New York
18 19 20 21 22
1K
148K
sviri replied
One Analyst's Prediction: PS4 Slim to be announced in addition to the PS4 Neo at TGS
6 7 8 9 10
477
67K
GriffinCorp replied
Top Bottom