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[teiresias]

Sure seems like that's what's happening which seems fairly ridiculous, and I can't believe no one in the press thought to ask this question at CES of the reps there, unless I just missed it.

I'm personally not interested in paying yet another price to have access to PS1 games that I may have already bought twice - once for the PS1 release and again for the PSOne Classics release if I really wanted access to it without using my disc copy.

Now, I do have a Vita which has PSOne Classic support, but I doubt it will get anymore support if Sony finds it easier to add support to games on Playstation Now - though I'm not sure whatever the licensing issues are that exist are any easier to deal with for Playstation Now than when releasing one as a Classic release.

 

[MRORANGE]

Pretty much anything these days can emulate a ps1, not sure why Sony are dragging their heels.

 

[ghst]

Pretty much anything these days can emulate a ps1, not sure why Sony are dragging their heels.

it's likely due to them wanting you to invest into their platform homogeneous ecosystem rather than a single platform solution. if you can emulate all those games at 1080p on your PS4, you have no reason to go with the subscription based PS now - a service they hope will bring additional value to all your potential future sony purchases.

 

[Tiu Neo]

Maybe you'll have free access on Playstation Now, for the PSOne games you bought? Didn't they announce you could pay a subscription, or pay a value per-game basis?

The only thing that worries me a bit is that Sony network... well, sucks, at least for me. Did they upscale their server numbers so that they be capable of streaming games to a lot of people?

 

[Redhood]

Didn't yoshida say that it will be easier to emulate PS1 & PS2 on PS4 than cloud?

 

[whitehawk]

I imagine PS1/PS2 classics will find their way to the PS4. PSNow will be used for PS3 games. Remember the Vita didn't have PS1 emulation at launch. They have priorities for launches of consoles, and retro emulation isn't one of them.

 

[RedNumberFive]

I imagine PS1/PS2 classics will find their way to the PS4. PSNow will be used for PS3 games. Remember the Vita didn't have PS1 emulation at launch. They have priorities for launches of consoles, and retro emulation isn't one of them.

That's unfortunate as it used to be one of the cornerstones of their platform.

 

[Plinko]

*Hugs Vita, which is primarily used as portable PS1*

 

[Manmademan]

Eh, sony doesn't really see a conflict between offering amazon instant/netflix/crackle AND selling you individual movies for sale through PSN alongside it.

PS1 games aren't really huge sellers anyway next to the PS2 and 3 catalogue.

 

[Portugeezer]

it's likely due to them wanting you to invest into their platform homogeneous ecosystem rather than a single platform solution. if you can emulate all those games at 1080p on your PS4, you have no reason to go with the subscription based PS now which they hope will bring additional value to all your potential future sony purchases.

Why not both? PS Now won't have PS4 games so obviously they still want people to buy a PS4, give those people a proper emulator for fucks sake, doesn't even have to be 1080p but it wastes less bandwidth and has no latency.

 

[disappeared]

That's unfortunate as it used to be one of the cornerstones of their platform.

Backwards compatibility has never been a cornerstone. It has been a privelege.

 

[androvsky]

Didn't yoshida say that it will be easier to emulate PS1 & PS2 on PS4 than cloud?

He did, because it is easier. He also said in the same quote that ultimately it's a business decision, meaning Sony might want to force people to subscribe to PS Now in order to play classics, at least in the short term.

It's kinda like Music Unlimited and CDs and mp3s. Yes, the PS4 can read CDs, it doesn't need a special laser (DVD lasers can read pressed CDs just fine). Obviously it could play back mp3s. Does it? No, but there's a subscription service available at launch that they'll happily sell you. We'll get those features later, but no one from Sony will outright confirm it (only "I talked to the dev team about it" type quotes).

After PS Now has been out a while, we might get backwards compatibility with PS1 and PS2 games on PS4, but Sony won't say anything until they're ready to release it. If they ever get around to it. As much as I'd love BC with the older systems, there's hardly any demand. When I went looking for quotes from Yoshida a while back, I found more people asking for the PS1 boot sound on the PS4 than I did people wanting to play PS1 games on the PS4. And after there's a streaming service that'll let you play PS1 games on practically anything, demand will be even lower.

 

[entremet]

Eh, sony doesn't really see a conflict between offering amazon instant/netflix/crackle AND selling you individual movies for sale through PSN alongside it.

PS1 games aren't really huge sellers anyway next to the PS2 and 3 catalogue.

Yep. They also aged badly and lack that nostalgia factor that 16 bit titles may have.

Don't get me wrong, I love the PS1 catalog to this day, it just doesn't have the must buy potential for Sony to make that investment.

 

[Famassu]

That's unfortunate as it used to be one of the cornerstones of their platform.

Lol, cornerstone. Let's not exaggerate. It's a great feature to have, but it's not super important, especially as time goes on and you can basically emulate PS1 games on your calculator.

AFAIK, hasn't Shuhei Yoshida said something in the lines that yes, it would probably make a lot more sense to have PS1 (and maybe 2) emulation rather than streaming (at least an option for it), so they obviously haven't shot down that idea for good. But just like with their other launches, they have priorities & deadlines. Getting everything up & running Day 1 (OS-wise) is impossible and even if they have PS1 (& 2) emulation planned, they were never going to make emulation a Day 1 priority with much more important improvements, additions & changes that needed to be done (and still needing to be done).

 

[FranXico]

Backwards compatibility has never been a cornerstone. It has been a privelege.

It was a selling point for the PS2, and a lot of people felt comfortable upgrading from PS2 to PS3 thanks to it.

Removing backwards compatibility is never a good thing. From PS2+3 to PS4, I can understand, but not being able to run PS1 games on a PS4 is inexcusable.

Just port the emulator already, it started as a x86 native emulator for PC!

 

[Jawmuncher]

Considering sony locked out the PS2 emulator on PSN to give more reason to buy PS2 classics. Yeah I don't see Sony offering any EMU support. Everything will be offered through the streaming.

 

[Skeff]

We will get PS1 emulation on the PS4 if we do not pay for the PS1 classics on Playstation Now, that's basically what it boils down to.

If Sony can get us to pay them more for PS1 games on PSNow than we are currently paying for PS1 classics, then we won't get an emulator.

 

[teiresias]

To be clear I'm not necessarily looking for PS1 disc compatibility - though that would certainly be nice, but at least PSOne Classic PSN release compatibility seems it would be the more effective solution rather than waste bandwidth streaming video of a game that can easily be emulated locally on the machine.

Relegating these things to Playstation Now also potentially cuts off a customer base that just may not have have the bandwidth available to support the video streaming properly but could easily download the PSOne Classic release.

 

[pukko]

A related question to this (I don't have a PS4 so I can't check), can the PS4 detect that a PS1/2/3 disc is authentic?

Has there been any talk/confirmation whatsoever from Sony that there will be any sort of emulation on the PS4 except for Now/Gaikai? They seem very quiet about this, so I'm wondering if their plan is to skip offline/local emulation.. And the fact that they didn't seem to have any plan for PS4 users to insert e.g. a PS3 game disc and let you play that (already purchased game) using Now made me a bit worried

 

[ghst]

Why not both? PS Now won't have PS4 games so obviously they still want people to buy a PS4, give those people a proper emulator for fucks sake, doesn't even have to be 1080p but it wastes less bandwidth and has no latency.

like i said, if you can play those games on PS4, you won't need PS now. they want you to need PS now, and now you're signed up, they want you to think "hey, maybe i'll pick up that new xperia over an iphone since i can play my PS now games on it".

 

[Dragon]

Yep. They also aged badly and lack that nostalgia factor that 16 bit titles may have.

Don't get me wrong, I love the PS1 catalog to this day, it just doesn't have the must buy potential for Sony to make that investment.

FFVII has consistently been one of the top bought things since its release four and a half years ago. There are plenty of other examples, I think you're nuts.

 

[Oppo]

To be clear I'm not necessarily looking for PS1 disc compatibility - though that would certainly be nice, but at least PSOne Classic PSN release compatibility seems it would be the more effective solution rather than waste bandwidth streaming video of a game that can easily be emulated locally on the machine.

Relegating these things to Playstation Now also potentially cuts off a customer base that just may not have have the bandwidth available to support the video streaming properly but could easily download the PSOne Classic release.

Oh I don't know, a 320x240 30FPS stream is pretty light these days.

 

[Famassu]

Considering sony locked out the PS2 emulator on PSN to give more reason to buy PS2 classics. Yeah I don't see Sony offering any EMU support. Everything will be offered through the streaming.

Sony removed PS2 emulation from latter PS3 models because PS3 was super-fucking-expensive at the time and they needed to bring costs down. One easy way to cut costs was to remove the costly PS2 parts from PS3 that were used to make it even possible for such wide array of games to work through emulation (though even then not nearly perfect).

 

[pukko]

Why not both? PS Now won't have PS4 games so obviously they still want people to buy a PS4, give those people a proper emulator for fucks sake, doesn't even have to be 1080p but it wastes less bandwidth and has no latency.

I actually think it will be possible to play PS4 games using Now as well. Not at launch, but in a couple of years.

 

[RaikuHebi]

FFVII has consistently been one of the top bought things since its release four and a half years ago. There are plenty of other examples, I think you're nuts.

They are absolutely nuts. Crash Bandicoot sells well on there as well.

On top of that PS1 games will be easier to stream, in fact they'll probably be just like playing natively.

Sony removed PS2 emulation from latter PS3 models because PS3 was super-fucking-expensive at the time and they needed to bring costs down. One easy way to cut costs was to remove the costly PS2 parts from PS3 that were used to make it even possible for such wide array of games to work through emulation (though even then not nearly perfect).

Except that the PS2 classics emulator actually has pretty good compatibility. My hacked Slim PS3 pretty much is like a BC model now. Would've been nice to allow people to use their PS2 discs with it.

 

[Omikaru]

I'm still hoping that PS1 and PS2 emulation makes its way to PS4. I have a whole bunch of discs and games bought on PSN for both systems that I'd like to run on my own hardware.

PlayStation Now is no guarantee that I'll be able to play games I already own, as they may not be available on the service, and I'd be paying Sony in perpetuity for the privilege of doing so anyway. No thanks.

I get that PS3 emulation on PS4 isn't feasible, so I won't make the unreasonable request for that (and anyway, my PS3 is going nowhere any time soon, what with Persona 5 on the way), but I see no reason why Sony shouldn't at some point support PS1 and PS2 emulation on PS4 other than they want me to buy into their subscription service, which in my view is a shitty move.

Heck, I'd even be prepared to put my money where my mouth is and buy a general purpose PS1 and PS2 emulator if it meant I could play the vast majority of my PS1 and PS2 discs on PS4. Of course I'd expect any PS1 and PS2 Classics bought via PSN to just work without any extra purchase, but if there needs to be an immediate financial incentive for Sony to enable me to play my own discs, then fine.

 

[RedNumberFive]

Backwards compatibility has never been a cornerstone. It has been a privelege.

At some point during the PS3 unveil it was touted as being an important part of the brand. I'll try and find/pull the quote sometime today. Regardless, it's a bummer.

Edit:

Here is the closest I can find, but I'll dig deeper. I distinctly remember them talking up how BC will always be part of the PS brand. Not trying to be salty, it's just unfortunate that this trend could not continue.

Mr. Ken Kutaragi, the boss of Sony Computer Entertainment division, has confirmed that the trend of backwards compatibility across next-gen consoles will continue. The Playstation 3 will support both Playstation 2 and PSOne titles when released sometime in 2005-2006.

The announcement was made by Kutaragi in the Japanese newspaper Asashi Shimbin where he put the decision down to the success the Playstation 2 had seen with PSOne compatibility giving users a sense of security and insurance about buying the machine.

 

[Valnen]

Backwards compatibility has never been a cornerstone. It has been a privelege.

This shouldn't be the case in the digital age. Things are different now. Expectations are rightfully higher.

Looking to the future, if PS5 is not compatible with PS4 digital games, I guarantee you that will be a problem for Sony. You can't rely on streaming technology for all gaming.

 

[Famassu]

At some point during the PS3 unveil it was touted as being an important part of the brand. I'll try and find/pull the quote sometime today. Regardless, it's a bummer.

Why is it a bummer in a world where pretty much anyone could play PS1 games on about a dozen different platforms that they own? I'm not sure if PCs that can't run PS1 games even exist anymore, so why not just play PS1 games on PC if it's such a huge deal?

 

[Curufinwe]

There should be support for PS1 Classics bought on thru PSN on the PS4, and soon. My PSP, PS3 and Vita all do it.

 

[RedNumberFive]

Why is it a bummer in a world where pretty much anyone could play PS1 games on about a dozen different platforms that they own? I'm not sure if PCs that can't run PS1 games even exist anymore, so why not just play PS1 games on PC if it's such a huge deal?

Because it would be nicer to have one machine that played my giant library of PS 1/2/3/4 games without having to rely on an emulator.

 

[Famassu]

There should be support for PS1 Classics bought on thru PSN on the PS4, and soon. My PSP, PS3 and Vita all do it.

They have much more important features to implement than PS1 emulation, atm. I'd rather they focus on OS stability, OS performance, fixing some shit (blu-ray playback) and a lot of promised & no-brainer features (mp3-playback). Get the basics right before doing something so non-essential as playing PS1 games.

 

[w1gglyjones]

Kind of ridiculous considering all the shit people gave Wii U because while it played all Wii and VC games for free out of the box, those purchases weren't tied to a user with an "account system." I know Sony needs the money badly, but this ranks up there with the greediest of greedy moves Nintendo has made.

 

[Majine]

They didn't include PS1 support because they didn't want Crash Bandicoot on PS1 to have to compete with Crash Bandicoot on PS4.

RIGHT!?

 

[Prince Vultan]

Don't see why. PSNow isn't just a PS4 service, and other PS platforms all play PS1 games via software and will still access the Now service also.

No reason not to have both options on just this one platform really. I would imagine it's still a fairly low priority for them to add to PS4 at this stage, given we're still waiting on more important features at this time.

 

[sn00zer]

I doubt it..... considering how well PS1 games sell on PS3

 

[ymmv]

If the PSP, Vita and PS3 can fully emulate a PS1, the PS4 can too. Sony already has the tech, it's just a matter of time when they've ported the PS1 emulation engine. Sony wants you to buy PS1 games and play them on your own hardware, that's a lot easier, simpler and soooooooooo much cheaper than building an online infrastructure with thousands of servers emulating those games. The only downside is that you can't play those PS1 games on tablets and smartphones because you'd need PS1 emulators for each and every mobile OS/hardware setup.

 

[Hasney]

They have much more important features to implement than PS1 emulation, atm. I'd rather they focus on OS stability, OS performance, fixing some shit (blu-ray playback) and a lot of promised & no-brainer features (mp3-playback). Get the basics right before doing something so non-essential as playing PS1 games.

I'd rather they focus on games, no matter what the age, before any of that.

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

They have much more important features to implement than PS1 emulation, atm. I'd rather they focus on OS stability, OS performance, fixing some shit (blu-ray playback) and a lot of promised & no-brainer features (mp3-playback). Get the basics right before doing something so non-essential as playing PS1 games.

Your non-essential is my why-wasnt-this-there-on-day-one. To each their own.

 

[Famassu]

Kind of ridiculous considering all the shit people gave Wii U because while it played all Wii and VC games for free out of the box, those purchases weren't tied to a user with an "account system." I know Sony needs the money badly, but this ranks up there with the greediest of greedy moves Nintendo has made.

You don't even know what they are planning for emulation on PS4, so no, this does not rank with the VC shit Nintendo is DOING at this very moment, at least not before they officially announce that they are never going to add PS1 emulation and all those PS1 games you've bought for PSP, PS3 and/or Vita will just have to sit there in your download history forever not used by PS4.

I mean, PSP, PS3 & Vita all play Kula World, a PS1 game I bought from the PS Store maybe 5-6 years ago, while Wii, Wii U & 3DS all have separate releases and don't even play the same games. I'm sure they'll get around to adding PS1 emulation for PS4, especially if the demand is there & people are loud enough in asking for it.

 

[Hades Hotgun]

These kinds of discussions come up a lot regarding backwards compatibility, yet they never seem to encourage any of the game journalists to bring up the topic in interviews. The ability to play older titles is what sold me on the PS2 and the lack of that feature is why I never purchased a PS3 (and the prohibitive cost when the feature was briefly included).

I have the money to spend, but I would much rather purchase than rent, and much rather download than stream.

 

[w1gglyjones]

You don't even know what they are planning for emulation on PS4, so no, this does not rank with the VC shit Nintendo is DOING at this very moment, at least not before they officially announce that they are never going to add PS1 emulation and all those PS1 games you've bought for PSP, PS3 and/or Vita will just have to sit there in your download history forever not used by PS4.

I mean, PSP, PS3 & Vita all play Kula World, a PS1 game I bought from the PS Store maybe 5-6 years ago, while Wii, Wii U & 3DS all have separate releases and don't even play the same games. I'm sure they'll get around to adding PS1 emulation for PS4, especially if the demand is there & people are loud enough in asking for it.

You totally missed the point. If you had it on your Wii, it would transfer and you could play it on your Wii U on day 1 for free. It didn't matter if it was out on Wii U VC or not, if it was on your Wii VC, it would carry over and be playable for free.

I'm operating on the assumption that there will be no PS1 or PS2 emulation in the next year or two in lieu of pushing for PS Now sign ups. The legacy titles you bought digitally showing up for customers for free down the road after PS Now launches means less than having access to what you bought right away.

 

[Famassu]

Your non-essential is my why-wasnt-this-there-on-day-one. To each their own.

My fucking god, just continue playing PS1 games on PS1, PS2, PS3, PSP, Vita and the million of unofficial platforms that support it, shouldn't be too hard. You can live without PS4 supported PS1 emulation for a while.

 

[RedNumberFive]

I always thought it would be neat if Sony or MS would release a deluxe console with all of the BC built in. I suppose continually reselling us our games is more appealing.

 

[Mesoian]

it's likely due to them wanting you to invest into their platform homogeneous ecosystem rather than a single platform solution. if you can emulate all those games at 1080p on your PS4, you have no reason to go with the subscription based PS now which they hope will bring additional value to all your potential future sony purchases.

Yurp. This exactly.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

Honestly, since I only own one ps1 game, I'd be happy with a compromise. Have a stream OR download option with PlayNow. I'd subscribe, and stream games until I found one that I liked, then download it to get better IQ and lower latency.

 

[RedNumberFive]

My fucking god, just continue playing PS1 games on PS1, PS2, PS3, PSP, Vita and the million of unofficial platforms that support it, shouldn't be too hard. You can live without PS4 supported PS1 emulation for a while.

So when did playing mp3s become more essential than playing games on a game console? You seem to be really opposed to anyone who appreciates that feature. What's with the hostility?

 

[fuzzyreactor]

My experience with BC:

"Oh sweet, I can play all my old ps2/ps1 games on ps3."
*pops in ps2 game and plays for 30 min*
*never uses again*

BC isn't the selling point the hardcore try to make it out to be. It is a nice feature but it isn't going to sell consoles and there are other features that are far more important.

 

[sn00zer]

My experience with BC:

"Oh sweet, I can play all my old ps2/ps1 games on ps3."
*pops in ps2 game and plays for 30 min*
*never uses again*

BC isn't the selling point the hardcore try to make it out to be. It is a nice feature but it isn't going to sell consoles and there are other features that are far more important.

Very true although ive found i really love playing PS1 games on vita...I imagine it would be a similar experience with PS2 games
EDIT: Sime arcadey PS3 games would be fun...cant imagine playing something like Uncharted though

 

[Jucksalbe]

This is a bit OT, but do we know if PlayStation Now will be region-locked?

Edit: I guess it's a bit too early to tell.