-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Playstation Visual Arts goes through layoffs from a "large pivot on [a] AAA game"
- Thread starter Draugoth
- Start date
Portugeezer
Member
Could this have any relation to the Naughty Dog update we had?
Umbasaborne
Banned
Things seem to be going great at the house of Jim Ryan, not quite as bad as the crack house phil spencer runs, not yet at least
Ronin_7
Banned
Yeah that's exactly it.
Naughty Dog didn't suffer layoffs because devs were transfered but the support studios are fucked.
Fake
Member
Ronin_7
Banned
Bend isn't a support studio anymore.
Ronin_7
Banned
It's not 'messy', it's just the nature of developing GaaS.
The single player projects should be going well as usual and turn out bangers.
Bungie is helping SIE, that's the reason some projects will be killed or reassessed.
Fabieter
Member
Do you think bungie is looking for quality control or just help with profitability and monetization of the projects?
Unknown?
Member
Single player games get cancelled all the time.
abacab driver
Banned
Damn..
Mr.Phoenix
Member
How can you say something you actually don't know for certain with this much certainty?
Why do people do or feel the need to do this? I am gonna assume you were joking or that was sarcasm.
This has nothing to do with anything being a mess. A mess would be to continue working on something that's not good or fun and releasing that thing anyways. Cutting your losses, and refocusing your resources is good business.
And unless you have been under a rock, Bungie is pretty much helping SIE with all their GAAS decisions. And very few have more experience in that field than them. And I don't know why people keep pushing this agenda that GAAS is taking away from their single-player games. I will only believe that when seeing a primarily single-player first-party studio leaving SP games behind and making only GAAS. As is, what we have seen is that they acquired some new studios, those studios seem to be the ones making live service games. The older teams are still making the single-player games they are known for.
Last edited:
ChorizoPicozo
Member
The timeline in which sony is having serious trouble developing these Multiplayer Games seems more real than ever.
But also, lets add the pressure to make AAA single player games with insane Production Values.
the latest showcases by itself was bad. but in context paints a very uncertain future for Play Station. (regarding their game output)
But also, lets add the pressure to make AAA single player games with insane Production Values.
the latest showcases by itself was bad. but in context paints a very uncertain future for Play Station. (regarding their game output)
they are not.
feynoob
Banned
Some of these studios could have done some SP games.
12 live service games is alot of eggs in one basket.
Mibu no ookami
Member
I mean that's really assuming that they're all the same genre.
The reality is they're working on a wide variety of live service games, but the reality is that PlayStation doesn't need these all to come out at the same time. It's much better to delay these games or cancel them than to release trash.
Sony just need to make sure they balance out their overall output. That we don't really know of any big games scheduled to come out next year other than Wolverine is alarming. That Spider-Man is the only one this year is alarming. That Insomniac is not pushing the PS5 as we had hoped is alarming.
We expected spider-man 2 to be the first real next gen marvel, but it almost certainly started as a cross-gen title and the most we're getting out of it is a extra LOD and draw distance. When they decided to make this PS5 exclusive, and it certainly didn't start that way, they really needed to redo the textures and assets across the board. Worse is that it doesn't feel like a massive upgrade in animation either. Looks exactly like Spider-Man Remastered and Miles Morales with elements of Uncharted in there, but even with Miles Morales you had a similar helicopter chase scene.
feynoob
Banned
Spiderman 2 is a bigger game, unlike miles and ratchet. So it wont have that impressive graphic.
It took them longer to show the ps4 power. I doubt they can show the ps5 power with this little time.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
who knows what is the actual philosophy behind this approach.
is clear that Project Management is a key factor for the success of any project.
it seems sony is very aggressive trying to figure out this aspect of this kind of game development.
balls of snow
Member
Bungie cleaning house. They want to be the only one making anything multiplayer.
Mibu no ookami
Member
The problem is the focus on 60 fps.
I think we desperately need PS5 Pro here.
Spider-Man 2 should have been 4K30 fps on PS5 (1080p60) and 4K60 fps on PS5 Pro, with a 30 fps option for even greater visual fidelity.
ManaByte
Gold Member
You won’t see 4K 60 on consoles until the next generation.
feynoob
Banned
PS5 pro wont make the ps5 disappear.
Its time we accept that these stuff take time to implement. Its not going to happen immediately.
feynoob
Banned
They are going to lose valuable time and give MS a fighting chance, if they dont get their act together.
2024-2025 MS will have its big SP games ready to ship.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
This doesn't stop asshole publishers from fake committing to a bunch of people who leave their old jobs to come work on something that gets cancelled before given the chance to fail.
Mibu no ookami
Member
They bought Bungie, and they're letting Bungie evaluate and dictate the Live Service strategy.
It's clear A LOT of games were not cutting the mustard and Bungie/Sony decided that it was better to cull these efforts and focus resources on more promising endeavors rather than to continue pumping money into some of these efforts.
The Naughty Dog news is the most interesting since the game isn't canceled but the team has been shrunk. Presumably this means the game is close to being done, but needs more polish. That the game was delayed when a date was never announced suggests that they had hoped to drop it this year, but it's probably going to be next year at this point. That they didn't cancel it outright suggests that they're too far into it to cancel it. Druckmann said this was one of the most ambitious project they've ever worked on only for Bungie to come in and slap them down a few months later. I'm guessing it was supposed to get a summer release for PS5 and PC and will instead drop next spring/summer.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Microsoft is never going to catch up with Sony this generation. Their studios and IP are too far behind.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
"giving MS time" . MS is behind like 8 years in terms of Game Development pipeline/infrastructure/ philosophy/"processes"... whatever.
. are you talking about the games that supposedly should have been out between 2021-2022?
Mibu no ookami
Member
Who said anything about making it disappear? What are you talking about?
We already have 4K60... what are you talking about?
ReBurn
Gold Member
Sounds a lot like what everyone said last generation
Mibu no ookami
Member
The reality is that game development is so project to project, that there isn't THAT much risk in joining a startup project. If it doesn't work out you can get a new job on a different project, especially if you have the resume. Studios are laying off on some projects and other studios are hiring on others.
Naughty Dog has 13% headcount growth in the last 6 months. That's tremendous. We don't know if they've had layoffs, or if the MP team just had people moved to a SP project, while the MP project gets polished.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Pro is not an answer to anything. It will just move the goalpost
feynoob
Banned
There is a saying that says "Never give your enemy time to recoup".
MS has been struggling with their studios. But now its different. with half of 2023, we are approaching the deadline for their big huge games, with starfield kicking the roadline for them.
Those games wont be in production line forever.
If Sony gives them that chance, Xbox might get a chance for the showdown game.
They need to utlize the current ps5 first.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Have we heard of any reductions in the realm of SP games? I don't think we have. I think it's a crucial difference to examine that most of these projects that have been sidelined have been live service games.
Also worth mentioning that Sony has a major profitability problem, which is why I told people earlier that I don't think the PS5 slim will retail for 400 even without the disc drive. That's significant revenue and operating income Sony would be eschewing for really what would be limited sales boost at this stage. I don't think there is anyone out there saying to themselves I'd get a PS5 digital for 400 if only it came with a disc drive attachment, but I'm not going to buy it now.
It would be perplexing for Sony to price it under 500.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
ChorizoPicozo
Member
oh...hell no. I dont think this is the case
nope.
sony has canceled projects to deep or far in development.
yeez.
this is the thing. Unless Factions is an "Apex Legends" they are not going to drop a game of that magnitude out of the blue.
the fact is....it hasn't actually being officially revealed. (it was acknowledged on stage because of the rumors and leaks).
People try to minimize the news surrounding ND/Factions....But they are fucking concerning.
I am just going to say that this game could be still 3 years away.
Mibu no ookami
Member
The reality is we're not going to see games that are tremendously better looking at existing framerates.
PS5 and XSX are just low-mid/mid range PCs. They can barely play previous-gen games at double the framerate.
You could double the tflops of PS5 and you're still not at a 3090, pretty much 50% there.
The 3090 doesn't make games look next gen and neither does the 4090.
Chronicle
Member
You won't see it then either. It's gonna be 8K 30 on consoles.
Mibu no ookami
Member
No one "delays" a game that is already a year out from release and never received a release date...
Sony isn't going to cancel a ND game that is anywhere close to being completed. The studio is far too expensive for that.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
"enemy" lol is this Game of Thrones or what
sony is doing what a competent market leader should do.
but now? You mean at this very moment? as we speak?
let's wait until they have a consistent release schedule of AAA GOTYs gamers. to say
"now is different"
they have a lot to prove.
"we are approaching the deadline"
that deadline was long passed. we are in borrow time.
is called competition.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
i think they are not going to cancel it because the potential is too damn high. So they are going to do whatever is possible to make that game great, thus why I think this game is not as close to release as you think it is.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Again, why would you delay a game if it was already not releasing within 12 months... especially when its release date was never publicly announced. You know that doesn't make sense.
The only thing that makes sense is they were targeting a release of this year and Bungie said no dice. That reports suggest that the team was reduced but the game was not cancelled suggests that the game simply needs polish/retooling.
Speculation, but I think they were going to announce that this was going to release within 3-6 months at the showcase, but the review went poorly. I think announcing a delay suggests that it needs another 3-6 months of development. If it needed more than that, I think it'd be canceled, but what is possible is that it'll get even longer with a smaller team.
Johnny Concrete
Member
Can we rename this thread General Bullshit Thread?
Because that’s all I’ve been reading so far..
Because that’s all I’ve been reading so far..
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Pro tip: don’t spend $3.2 billion on buying third party studios to make third party games when you can’t afford to keep devs from small 20 person studios like pixel opus, can’t afford to pay 100 person Japan studios, and support studios like this one that were crucial in supporting development of tlou2 and several other games shipped by Sony first party.
Mibu no ookami
Member
What an amateurish take.
First, the operating income Bungie will provide by making multiplatform games is considerably higher than making games for PS5 only or even PS5 and PC only.
Second, it's not that Sony couldn't afford to keep pixelopus, it's rather than they aren't worth keeping open. Same with Japan Studio and same with a support studio.
It's all about ROI and it seems a lot of people here don't understand opportunity cost.
Would you rather spend 1,000 dollars on an endeavor that will make you 1,100 dollars in revenue or an endeavor that would make you 2,000 dollars?
Both endeavors cost 1,000 dollars.
Maybe do both right? Well that's 2,000 dollars in operating costs of which again, the first endeavor is only going to make you 100 dollars of profit.
Everything you do has an opportunity cost and different ROI. Sony needs to cut back on its costs because, despite its high revenue, its annual income is really small.
You really can only release so many games before you start eating into your own potential sales too.
feynoob
Banned
So far, MS has revealed couple of big AAA games in the work, which were going to release in 2024-2025. You know it, so dont ignore it.
They have to perfect the current devices first, before moving out to the new one. Otherwise you will end up with unutilized device.
Similar threads
- Locked