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PlayStation's spending spree is radically different to Xbox's

SaucyJack

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If Sony could afford zenimax the way MS can they would have tried to buy them too. Anyone saying anything different is clueless. Sony just don't have the money that MS do.

Sure Jan.

Of course Sony could have afforded Zenimax. They may not have the cash reserves of Microsoft but they clearly can afford a $7.5 billion acquisition if they were so inclined. If there was a bidding war then yes, probably, they lose it. But even then it depends how much each party wants it and the internal valuation.

But acquiring studios is only half the story. They’re not baseball cards that you just collect, you actually have to fit them into your organisation, manage them, align them to your strategy, retain talent and get something productive out of them. A massive multi-studio acquisition is definitely harder to integrate.
 

SLB1904

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If Sony could afford zenimax the way MS can they would have tried to buy them too. Anyone saying anything different is clueless. Sony just don't have the money that MS do.
i much do you think sony could borrow making $10b profits a year ?
 

TGO

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Are you seriously trying to convince me that buying Nixxes which owns zero original IP for maybe $5 million is not exactly the same as the $7.5 billion acquisition of one of the major gaming publishers?

Get outta here with that fanboy BS!
Don't know, how many Nixxes for 5mill can they buy for 7.5billion?
Yeah I think it's a bit different 🤔
 

ksdixon

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Still waiting on Switch Pro, Playstation's summer show and its not even a Wednesday yet for MS to buy SEGA
Such a succinct sentence.
I'm pretty fed up of the current crop of rumors. MGS/SH remakes, this studio purchase or that one. Still waiting on Sony's PSN/PS+/PSNow revamp and an answer to BC. Still waiting for the official announcement of TLOU2 MP..

I kinda want new talking points.
 

cireza

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Jun 1, 2014
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Hey look it's that thread again.

So let's post the same answer again...

It has never been the company's style to go out and drop billions on a Bethesda.
Can't drop money you don't have.

I have bought a NES. I really gave some thought about buying a Neo Geo, but in the end, I made the choice that felt like the right one. Not that I didn't have the money, really.
 
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Derktron

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I swear these threads are as pathetic as Nintendo fanboys asking where is Mother 3. Or is there going to be another Smash Bros. character? -- Stop please get some help!!!!!
 

SaucyJack

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Must be true then !

So you're going with Sony lying to the market then?

 
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Derktron

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Zenimax has got the IP, but im not convinced Sony could tolerate the inherent level of jank and lack of polish. Things would require significant overhaul and much further investment.
Then why did Sony accept to have Deathloop and Ghost Wire Tokyo be exclusive to PlayStation even before the company was bought by Microsoft? -- You sound really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, ignorant.
 

Kumomeme

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MS strategy is a culmination of 20 years of failures.

Sony is coming to its 5th gen after being market leader in 3 generations.
no suprise since Sony currently already has solid first party line up compared to what ms have before zenimax acquistion. they no need go all the way to buy others big company as their current studios is perform great. infact even among the best in industry. what they need is just 'fine-tuning' what they already have, add more variety etc to existing successfull franchises and studios. recent acquistion of nixxes software for pc port specialty and rumored upcoming bluepoint acquisition for remakes is good example . all those in lower scale compared to what ms pulled off but we can see the reason behind the acquisition, the value that those studio/company can offer instead of just being another game developers studio.

meanwhile, for microsoft before bethesda acquisition most of their studio not even made much significant presence in industry. they had 20 years... not saying they failed but compared to their rival sony, well you guys can see how it goes clearly. aside halo and gears of wars, whats the rest? lot of people still waiting for their 'breakthrough' new title release every year while sony keep nurturing new talent, continuosly pumping out line up of their successful, well established ip. not just sony, nintendo also contribute alot with their ip. personally i believe if ms in sony's position where they already has great line up of successfull ip and studio then they no need resorted to spend big buy already well established company like bethesda at first place.

added more to their situation where most of their studio didnt have anything ready yet especially for launch or anything that can 'guarantee' something in future(most of new title just still long way in development), the bethesda acquisition is makesense, as it not just to 'cover' the previous 20 years in instant but also would helped cover the loop hole left by those others studio while waiting for their game to be finished, assuming it doesnt run into trouble. they probably 'bank everything on' halo infinite for launch at first place but you see how it end up. but then even betheseda didnt have anything much new ready for console launch resulted that 'no launch game' situation is unavoidable. but atleast, bethesda's massive catalog surely would add more value to their gamepass services. thats probably where their main focus is.
 
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Excess

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Instead of fanboyism disguised as “opinions”, everyone where should check both Sony and MS history of handling studios, IPs etc

then the conversation should stop being so ridiculous.
>It rained yesterday
>Therefore it will rain tomorrow

:pie_invert:
 
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Zeroing

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>It rained yesterday
>Therefore it will rain tomorrow

:pie_invert:
That’s a stupid way to see my point!

What I mean is companies/brands follow a pattern! That’s what define them. If you see they changing rapidly it means something is wrong or are trying to be more competitive.
 

TLZ

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They have enough cash on hand to make that kind of acquisition but it's a question of whether or not they need to.

Xbox's first party problems are well documented, an acquisition of bethesda/zenimax's size was not only required to try and remedy their first party situation but also from a long term strategic standpoint for gamepass.

The ideology that it's all about cash is a misguided one. If that were the case then why haven't the likes of Amazon and Google gone and bought a bunch of major publishers? Why did it take Microsoft so long to make an acquisition the size of Zenimax/Bethesda? It's not as simple as throwing money around. Once you acquire the company and it's assets they are your responsibility and burden.

You need a clear strategy on how to integrate that business and how to allow them to create a sustainable ROI without needing to spend more money and time in order to get them aligned with your existing business. If that fails then the acquisition is not only a waste of the billions you spent initially, it ends up being akin to paying child support for a child you never even wanted.
Great answer.
 

Punished Miku

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Jan 13, 2018
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So MS is "frenzied," because they are just throwing around money but Sony "goes on dates" first.

This just isn't all that accurate. MS basically was the biggest partner that allowed Bethesda to transition from a niche company into a juggernaut. Morrowind on the original Xbox and Oblivion on 360 is what built Bethesda. They have gone on dates before and explained this in the acquisition video.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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The real question is, if Sony had the resources at its disposal that MS had, would it still be following its present strategy or would it mirror that of Microsoft? History points to it prehaps being more along the lines of Microsoft, there was a time when Sony was also quick to snap up studios as well. Sony's strategy is let's be real, a matter of reality versus what it prehaps would like to do.
Sony has money, they just spend it in different ways.

Years ago they spent $2 billion buying out the remaining part of EMI music. 10 years ago, they already had spent a ton buying a portion of EMI. And that when Sony had bad financials. And they still found money to buy songs.
 

Shmunter

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Then why did Sony accept to have Deathloop and Ghost Wire Tokyo be exclusive to PlayStation even before the company was bought by Microsoft? -- You sound really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, ignorant.
Errrr, newsflash - 2 things can be true at the same time. 3rd party exclusives do exist.

Sony publishing whatever as a 1st party is not the brands approach. As soon as Sony published jank like Fallout 76, say goodbye to the quality they are known for.
 
Aug 11, 2016
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Lord,

As your humble servant I ask: how long must the front page suffer for the purchase of Bethesda? How many Playstation threads must we endure to placate the weeping masses? Surely you did not put this generation in place, only for us to suffer under the yoke of 10 damage control threads per week? I understand your plan is beyond us, but send us a sign that this dark time will end.

Amen.

Yee of little faith. We must endure for our transgressions were mighty. Our souls must be cast ablaze in atonement for Sony not securing Starfield exclusivity. As the aquisition was "almost frenzied" so must be our penitence.
 
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Kumomeme

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The real question is, if Sony had the resources at its disposal that MS had, would it still be following its present strategy or would it mirror that of Microsoft? History points to it prehaps being more along the lines of Microsoft, there was a time when Sony was also quick to snap up studios as well. Sony's strategy is let's be real, a matter of reality versus what it prehaps would like to do.
The real question is, if Ms had the same quality of first party studio and ip line up that Sony had, would it still be following present strategy or would it mirror of Sony?
 

peter42O

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Will never understand why people are so salty over Microsoft acquiring Bethesda. If Sony had acquired them, not a single PlayStation fanboy would be bitching and just imagine if Google ended up outbidding Microsoft. Every game exclusive to Stadia and only streamable...ugh.

At least Microsoft gives real gamers and fans five different options in regards to how you want to play the game. The others, not so much.

As for Sony acquiring studios, the two acquisitions thus far (three if you want to count Bluepoint Games) have been excellent acquisitions.

Me personally, I want Microsoft and Sony to acquire MORE studios and publishers. Mainly Microsoft due to Game Pass because the days of spending $60+ on a game im only 50/50 on are gone. Luckily, I own both Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5 so no game is off limits for me. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

Bryank75

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'Sony cannot afford to buy a publisher like Zenimax' Xbox fanboy

'Sony cannot afford to buy Zenimax and anyone who thinks differently is clueless' Xbox super fanboy

Sony cash on hand: 45 Billion

Sony long term debt: 7 billion (Allowing them raise potentially tens of billions if needed)

Sony Net: 38 Billion

Sony net profits / income last FY: 10.7 Billion


Tencent Cash on hand: 37 Billion
Tencent longterm debt: 37 Billion
Tencent Net: 0

MSFT Cash on hand: 120 Billion
MSFT longterm debt: 55 Billion
MSFT net : 65 Billion

EA Cash on hand: 6.36 Billion
EA long term debt: 1.8 Billion


Reality: Sony has 45 billion in cash on hand and very low debt for a company of its size, meaning it could raise possibly tens of billions if needed.
The only thing stopping Sony from a large acquisition is Sony themselves.....


Also...yes Microsoft is a 2 Trillion dollar company...but that means the shares that institutions and the individual shareholders own are worth 2 Trillion...... it is not some money Microsoft have access to. They got money from those stocks at the IPO and that is the only point they get cash from them.... from that point on it is the investors that gain from the price going up. I don't think many people here understand that!

Saying MSFT has 2 trillion dollars is like saying a race horse has all the money that people won betting on it.....
 
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i really don't know what that is supposed to mean.
Sure I'll explain the joke. That always makes things more fun.

Since we were discussing Sony finances I made a snide allusion to how Sony is bending over users to pay for next gen updates. That kind of business is how they're generating the money needed to fund aquisitions out of pocket. That's it.
 

Bryank75

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Sure I'll explain the joke. That always makes things more fun.

Since we were discussing Sony finances I made a snide allusion to how Sony is bending over users to pay for next gen updates. That kind of business is how they're generating the money needed to fund aquisitions out of pocket. That's it.

It's true that all the acquisitions so far probably came from their normal operating budget....no need to use any cash from reserves at all.
 
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CrimsonSquall

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The article missed the forest for the trees.

PlayStation's "spending spree" of two whole acquisitions is formalising its long-standing partnerships as first party endeavours. While this allows Sony to invest deeply into proven talent they know will be at home in the PlayStation family, it doesn't change anything - and just adds yet another studio making yet more third person action adventure games, which is what the vast, vast majority of Sony studios already make. They're quality titles, no doubt, but if you're looking for literally anything else, Sony simply doesn't have an offering. If Microsoft's Zenimax purchase was apparently lacking breadth, Sony's purchases are borderline myopic.

Microsoft's purchase of Zenimax is something Sony wishes it could afford - Sony was apparently after a timed exclusivity deal for Starfield - but the result is a pretty massive change in Xbox's first party long term growth and support systems. If all you see is generic "RPG" and "FPS" then you're simply not paying attention. In Arkane, they've scored the best immersive sim studio on the planet. In Id, they've secured the legendary technological expertise of one of gaming's most storied developers. In Bethesda Games Studios, they've secured a company whose titles sell with borderline Nintendo legs. In Zenimax Online, they secured one of the few studios who made a fantasy MMORPG that has truly thrived. In Machine Games, they scored a developer who's proven they can achieve the impossible: resurrect an outdated IP long thought dead. These acquisitions should - in theory - allow Xbox as a whole to lean into and learn from this talent to push what its first parties can do over the next generation. Its not about owning "DOOM" - it's about bringing the minds that created it and kept it relevant for thirty years to bolster the entire Xbox brand.

Sony bought a PC porting company and made a second-party developer first party. Cool. Literally nothing changes. Xbox bought a deep bench of talent that should help its entire first party to deliver better quality exclusive games. Time will tell if they can actually pull it off - its been well over a generation since Xbox was really able to deliver truly industry-leading exclusives.
Lol comes at Sony for the 3rd person games meme but doesn’t see the hypocrisy that Bethesda only outputs 1st person games. It’s one of the silliest things to bring up and you just look so ridiculous mentioning it
 

Bryank75

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Sony has money, they just spend it in different ways.

Years ago they spent $2 billion buying out the remaining part of EMI music. 10 years ago, they already had spent a ton buying a portion of EMI. And that when Sony had bad financials. And they still found money to buy songs.
Very true and Sony were in a shit state back then...
 
Aug 11, 2016
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'Sony cannot afford to buy a publisher like Zenimax' Xbox fanboy

'Sony cannot afford to buy Zenimax and anyone who thinks differently is clueless' Xbox super fanboy

Sony cash on hand: 45 Billion

Sony long term debt: 7 billion (Allowing them raise potentially tens of billions if needed)

Sony Net: 38 Billion

Sony net profits / income last FY: 10.7 Billion


Tencent Cash on hand: 37 Billion
Tencent longterm debt: 37 Billion
Tencent Net: 0

MSFT Cash on hand: 120 Billion
MSFT longterm debt: 55 Billion
MSFT net : 65 Billion

EA Cash on hand: 6.36 Billion
EA long term debt: 1.8 Billion


Reality: Sony has 45 billion in cash on hand and very low debt for a company of its size, meaning it could raise possibly tens of billions if needed.
The only thing stopping Sony from a large acquisition is Sony themselves.....


Also...yes Microsoft is a 2 Trillion dollar company...but that means the shares that institutions and the individual shareholders own are worth 2 Trillion...... it is not some money Microsoft have access to. They got money from those stocks at the IPO and that is the only point they get cash from them.... from that point on it is the investors that gain from the price going up. I don't think many people here understand that!

Saying MSFT has 2 trillion dollars is like saying a race horse has all the money that people won betting on it.....

Sony can afford to do it. Anyone who says otherwise is being dense. The real question is always ROI. Is there enough ROI there for them to invest in that acquisition? I can assure you the money (outside of some base cash reserves they must keep on hand) is not just sitting there not generating interest. Whenever you invest you have to consider opportunity cost of what else you could've invested that money into.

Simple: Bethesda has much better ROI for MS than for Sony and that's why MS made the acquisition and Sony didn't. That and MS has a good relationship with them. MS can use Bethesda to shore up not only XBOX but also PC gaming and therefore Windows. It's a multi marketplace approach.

I think Sony has come to a similar realization and that's why they're testing PC releases. They see the potential market they're not serving. They have to toe the line between fiercely protecting PlayStation ecosystem business (a locked store) and increasing market value by going to other marketplaces. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sony releasing a PC store akin to EPIC down the line if the ROI is there. The investment to bring up a PC store and maintain it might not be worth it for them though so they'll probably just haggle with STEAM and EPIC for more favorable store cuts.
 

SLB1904

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Sure I'll explain the joke. That always makes things more fun.

Since we were discussing Sony finances I made a snide allusion to how Sony is bending over users to pay for next gen updates. That kind of business is how they're generating the money needed to fund aquisitions out of pocket. That's it.
oh okay is a broke people joke. sorry is didn't get it.
 

Bryank75

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Sony can afford to do it. Anyone who says otherwise is being dense. The real question is always ROI. Is there enough ROI there for them to invest in that acquisition? I can assure you the money (outside of some base cash reserves they must keep on hand) is not just sitting there not generating interest. Whenever you invest you have to consider opportunity cost of what else you could've invested that money into.

Simple: Bethesda has much better ROI for MS than for Sony and that's why MS made the acquisition and Sony didn't. That and MS has a good relationship with them. MS can use Bethesda to shore up not only XBOX but also PC gaming and therefore Windows. It's a multi marketplace approach.

I think Sony has come to a similar realization and that's why they're testing PC releases. They see the potential market they're not serving. They have to toe the line between fiercely protecting PlayStation ecosystem business (a locked store) and increasing market value by going to other marketplaces. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sony releasing a PC store akin to EPIC down the line if the ROI is there. The investment to bring up a PC store and maintain it might not be worth it for them though so they'll probably just haggle with STEAM and EPIC for more favorable store cuts.

I personally think PC is a massive mistake and will lead to lower sales potential of PS5..... but Jim Ryan is a short-termist and just wants to be able to say 'highest revenue and profits ever' before he goes away into the night in a few short years.
I personally think he has no vision or real ambition above his own narcissism.

If he had ambition, there are a multitude of really cool things he could do. But he is boring.... dump games onto PC instead of making a high end PS5 Pro for 800-1000.

Buy some studios they already have working for them instead of really changing the game.... cost cutting by downsizing studios, shutting down store and services like communities etc.
 

SaucyJack

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Sony has money, they just spend it in different ways.

Years ago they spent $2 billion buying out the remaining part of EMI music. 10 years ago, they already had spent a ton buying a portion of EMI. And that when Sony had bad financials. And they still found money to buy songs.

Less than 3 years ago that they spent $2 billion on EMI. This year they have $1.2 billion acquisition of Crunchyroll, presuming regulatory approval.
 

Shmunter

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I personally think PC is a massive mistake and will lead to lower sales potential of PS5..... but Jim Ryan is a short-termist and just wants to be able to say 'highest revenue and profits ever' before he goes away into the night in a few short years.
I personally think he has no vision or real ambition above his own narcissism.

If he had ambition, there are a multitude of really cool things he could do. But he is boring.... dump games onto PC instead of making a high end PS5 Pro for 800-1000.

Buy some studios they already have working for them instead of really changing the game.... cost cutting by downsizing studios, shutting down store and services like communities etc.
What’s happen with the discord integration? Was that really a thing?
 
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Jimmyisback

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Sony can't afford a Bethesda. If they could they definitely would. Look at what they do with the funds they have now. Buy year or more longer timed exclusivity. Just keep it off Xbox. No funding of the game or help with resources or anything like that with some third party moneyhats. Just keep it off Xbox.
 

Hezekiah

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Sony is making smart moves buying companies they've worked and who fit their gaming ethos, while Microsoft was desperate and spent $7.5b on a publisher because no games and for the IPs.
 
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I caution against the small minded take of big stupid brute MS swinging a big axe while smaller smarter Sony is carving with fine precision. It's surface level analysis. The reality is that their business cases are much different and they're both making smart decisions for THEIR business.