This got me pretty good.
Things are bad enough with that second point in Japan that sales of adult diapers now exceed those of ones for babies.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Politico OpEd: Should We be Turning Japanese?
- Thread starter Antiochus
- Start date
- Status
It is pretty condescending and historically stupid to argue that Japan played a significant part in the economic success of other Asian nations.
Antiochus
Member
Amazingly, that still means a much higher manufacturing share of the economy in Japan compared with the United States and other Western European nations such as Britain or France, save for Germany
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Japans work culture scares me to bits. 12 Hour days is the norm?? The freaking norm?
Pretty much.
Because that wouldn't support the point the author was trying to make.
Humans have not evolved to the point where they can survive the next 1000 years at a high level of 'progress'. Our technology completely eclipses our social evolution. We are unable to make the necessary actions to survive as a species.
Japan isn't a nation to emulate, but neither is America, Europe, China... etc...
Japan isn't a nation to emulate, but neither is America, Europe, China... etc...
This describes most countries in the world....
Blackpanther25
Member
I was coming here just to say this.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I mean America has a few of these in common.
Wow. This is some hateful stuff to write on a public forum by a mod.
I think the point is all of those are issues in western countries and yet many don't realize Japan is even worse. Way, way, way worse on some of them.
Describing actual history is hateful now. Kay.
entremet
Member
They're still stuck in the salaryman culture in some companies. Those hours made sense post WW2 when they became a wold became a world economic power.
But that same work ethic isn't the issue right now. They need more innovation.
I am beginning to read the OT's article, wondering if my first instinct of the author Japanese style work hours and/or immigration policy and not much else is incorrect or not.
Edit: Yep, immigration policy. Not even going to bother with that, too many posts in the thread already have nipped that in the bud.
And of course Japan's education system is going to look good compared to the U.S. because almost every other developed nation's education system does. >.>
Edit: Yep, immigration policy. Not even going to bother with that, too many posts in the thread already have nipped that in the bud.
And of course Japan's education system is going to look good compared to the U.S. because almost every other developed nation's education system does. >.>
I mean the tone, not expected to see a mod using such foul language. Totally unnecessary.
Also, isn't the case that Japan had an effect on the acceleration of the dismantling of the British empire in Asia? Not to say they deserve any sort of credit for it, but ultimately the British could not held on their empire anymore after WW2.
uncredited male
Member
I wish my bathroom turned Japanese. Those toilets are amazing.
Soyongdori
Member
The bulk of British Empire's damage came from fighting the Nazis in Europe, not from IJ. Brits called out its expeditionary forces, all the resources and manpower from former colonies into concentrating on fighting in Europe. Japanese Empire wasn't even on Brit's radar to the point where Churchill once said Japan will automatically fall after Nazis are defeated, or something along the line. Brit's hold in Asia (aside from few territories) simply vanished because of the Nazis.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
That article is so baka desu
Dash_Riprock
Member
I was hoping this was an article about masturbating more.
NobleXenon
Member
Doesn't Japan have a Negative Interest Rate?
first point is true for many countries. for most japanese there simply isn't a need to learn english, so I'm not sure why this warrants being a point on your list.
birth rate is as bad as germany and in line with most western countries, the difference is immigration. these things will stabilize. if anything it's probably more long term sustainable for japan to have a smaller population.
while this is true compared to the nineties japan still is miles ahead of most developed countries when it comes to infrastructure.
the politics thing is absolutely true and imo their biggest challenge.
the last two points are certainly regrettable. pales in comparison with waging war. but still something I wish they would sort out.
I do not feel the need to pull any punches if someone is suggesting that Japan's isolationist "policy" post-WW2 was a good thing for my country and the ones around it, effectively ignoring the fact that the isolationist "policy" is only in place because it was forced on them for basically fucking up my country and the ones around it during the war in the first place. Like, seriously? Fuck that noise.
Still got it.
entremet
Member
Japan benefited from the huge infrastructure projects after WWII. Their infrastructure is one of the most modern actually. Density also helps tons here.
I was hoping this would be first post. You did not disappoint.
Why and how will the population stabilize? People aren't suddenly going to start having more kids because of reasons.
And the point of that whole thing list was not to show that Japan sucks, but that we should not emulate them because they have a shit ton of problems like everyone else does. Not to mention his main point about no immigration being a good thing is just ridiculous if you know anything about Japan, its demographics, and its economy.
Soyongdori
Member
Isn't Trump basically making a similar noise? Turn America into isolationist country and fuck everyone else. No immigrants, no refugees, only pure white Americans, fuck the rest, just concentrate on America.
I'm pretty sure the writer of this article is a closet Trump supporter.
Elfforkusu
Member
I think that if you reject the (relative) success of the Japanese model, you do yourself an intellectual disservice.
Not to say that we should or even can emulate it. But where state-scale economics are concerned, you really don't have enough data points to be rejecting one as large as Japan out of hand.
Not to say that we should or even can emulate it. But where state-scale economics are concerned, you really don't have enough data points to be rejecting one as large as Japan out of hand.
There is only one economy in the West bigger than Japan's IIRC.
I loved my time working in Japan, but the guarantee of being a sarariman for life sounds more like torture than a blessing frankly.
Some things are better though. I'm not a fan of homogeneous cultures, but you can't deny how much more civilized the country is and probably remains due to this.
Some things are better though. I'm not a fan of homogeneous cultures, but you can't deny how much more civilized the country is and probably remains due to this.
Should the Western world adopt Japan's model when Japan has a horrible social political model? I'm not even sure how anybody familiar with how Japan works would even consider it for a moment. The West is generally much better off than Japan in most ways, and the most pressing of problems, the widespread adoption of anarcho capitalism, is an even bigger problem in Japan. Maybe Japan would be better used in terms of what not to do.
I thought Japan was still in a two-and-a-half decades long recession
IdreamofHIME
Member
Well that's some unabashed propaganda. Yikes, how could someone with half a clue of modern history and world economics swallow that shit?
Japan isolationist policy is even older that WW2, they closed the county borders for 200 years, went full hikikomori as a reaction to the fear of Christianity. I get that you feel the need to use foul language to state your point forcefully. The thing is, Japan's economy was back on track by the 60s, but they still adopted a isolationist stance, rather than following the trend of globalisation. (Not that I agree with it, as I think globalisation is a good thing!).
Unknown Soldier
Member
LMAO yes, the economic genius Shinzo Abe thought that having the Bank of Japan charge interest, effectively a negative interest rate, would spur the economy to new heights of growth.
SolicitorPirate
Member
My grandmother had to constantly dress as a boy to avoid getting raped and my granddad was kidnapped by the Japanese army and only narrowly escaped with his life. Nearly everyone I know above a certain age lost loved ones to atrocities during the war.
I would appreciate if random internet people didn't tell me to "chillax"
Until the 90's at least.
Might as well change it from "the lost decade" to "well, those decades ain't coming back".
Because it's a problem that needs to be solved, not just for japan but the whole world. perpetual growth isn't sustainable. the tech and ideas to stabilize/reverse that trend will come in time.
I don't think that idea is ridiculous at all. All those things you mention are inherent problems with the economic system, immigration doesn't solve that it just postpones facing the real problem while also bringing a ton of other issues with it.
I looked him up. He is a former Yale professor who taught Japanese history
Thats wishful thinking. Just because people eventually need to have 2 kids to stabilize the population after global population declines doesnt mean that they will. I mean, hell, just look at Japan and other countries like it. They want their citizens to have more kids, but it aint happening.
Immigration keeps economy going while siphoning off populations from nations who are growing at exponential rates.
Avoiding immigration just tanks the economy, and the only hope of that economy is that the population eventually stabalizes by people having more kids.
I'd like to have my economy working, thank you very much, and hope that technology or something like that eventually reverses people's desires to have fewere than 2 kids to 2 kids. And yes, that is wishful thinking, but that is all we can do when individual desires are concerned. I'd rather have a smooth ride the way there than an incredible bumpy one
Erm...Japan went from 'bombed back to the stone age', as Duckroll vividly put it, to 3-4 world economy in the space of a few decades. Lost decades or not, that's quite an achievement.
The sad thing is that even they themselves know all those hours aren't close to being productive. It's about face. I always laugh and sigh at the same time when listening to a game podcast based in Japan and they talk about employees just sticking around because they give the impression they are hard at work. You look bad if you leave "on time".
But really aside from having a giggle at the goofiness of such things, these non sensible hours sure don't help the birth rate when you have woman taking part in the work place. It's really too bad. Cutting hours would be beneficial and it's so simple. Of course it's incredibly difficult to make a working culture shift. Things just don't change in a snap of a finger. Especially when you don't want to stand out in a collectivist culture. Wouldn't want to disturb the peace of the social norm.
Even so, I'm actually hopeful that as Japan slowly opens up to the world, they too will start making positive adjustments. Cause I think plenty of things in Japan are swell and then there are a few real boneheaded things that make you think how they stick with it.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Kind of ridiculous. You can't just try to copy what Japan does while ignoring how intrinsically tied all of that is to their unique culture and geographical situation. The murder comparison between the U.S. and Japan is just dumb.
Furthermore, things aren't all that great in Japan right now.
Furthermore, things aren't all that great in Japan right now.
Japan, the country that has arguably one of the worst social and cultural environment in the world today? Yeah ok.
Why any sane person would want to act like Japan or the Japanese social and cultural system makes no fucking sense.
Japan of today is just one big fat mess top to bottom. They completely failed to remain relevant in the 21st century in any way and grow more and more insular as a response. If Japan is still a relevant nation in this world 50 years from now I would be completely shocked. They are fading into irrelevance, anyone could tell you that.
Why any sane person would want to act like Japan or the Japanese social and cultural system makes no fucking sense.
Japan of today is just one big fat mess top to bottom. They completely failed to remain relevant in the 21st century in any way and grow more and more insular as a response. If Japan is still a relevant nation in this world 50 years from now I would be completely shocked. They are fading into irrelevance, anyone could tell you that.
Sure but I think you're missing the specific context here. The post I was reacting to was basically suggesting that the prosperity and development of various Asian success stories post-WW2 benefited from Japan's "isolationist" policy, in comparison with the United State's intervention policy having poor results in their neighboring countries. That's insulting because it suggests that Japan was in a position to intervene to begin with. They were not. Why? Because they -just- intervened a few decades before that by INVADING us. It's a nonsense comparison.
It is absolutely an achievement. No one would deny that. Japan made amazing progress post-war, and then pissed it all away after the 90s. There are a lot of things we can learn from Japan, but their current social political system is not that. Neither is their foreign policy!
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
What in the world?
- Status