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Polygon article on JonTron and A Hat in Time (Humble Bundle ... (READ MOD POST)

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Yoshi

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2017, where opposing Neo-Nazis hurts your bottomline, so you better stay silent.
It is a sad reality, certainly, but it is probably not limited to 2017. It is just that modern forms of communication help small, aggressive groups to target people more effectively.

Nobody is mocking people for buying the game. If you want to have a fun n64 style romp, go on ahead and enjoy yourself.

Just don't argue this game is free of social repercussion.

People are angry somebody as radically racist as JonTron is getting any traction or support in the community.

It doesn't matter how big or small his role is in the game.

I don't see how this game really advertises Jontron or his ideas, because the normal player will not realise who he even is. Afterall it's just a voice in a video game - outside of him, Kirkhope for DK in DK64 and Charles Martinet for all kinds of Mario characters, I think I have never even realised who speaks a role in a game and if Jontron's voice work isn't exceptionally great (which it does not seem to be by the comments made in this thread), I also do not see many ordinary people (so ones not invested with Jontron either way) to ever realise who he is.
 

Stone Ocean

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Silence is complicity. Their inaction tells me that they're okay with having nazi rhetorics in their spaces. That's collaboration.
Ok, this is getting ridiculous. I understand where people are coming from with racists and nazis coming out of the woodwork, but this idea that you need to prove your allegiance to the greater good or be branded something else is fucking insane. Silence does not equal complicity, life ain't that simple.
 

Oersted

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Mar 14, 2012
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Complicity and collaboration are active words, they signify an action not a lack thereof, so this is quite confusing usage of these words and at the same time it makes it difficult to properly describe someone who, in my sense of the word, is complicit or collaborates, e.g. by distributing, advertising or protecting racist claims, racists or racist actions. Differentiating between those two things, I feel, is not irrelevant.
Ok, this is getting ridiculous. I understand where people are coming from with racists and nazis coming out of the woodwork, but this idea that you need to prove your allegiance to the greater good or be branded something else is fucking insane. Silence does not equal complicity, life ain't that simple.



Complicity trough silence is a moral concept which has been established for ages

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/complicity
 
Jun 5, 2013
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Ok, this is getting ridiculous. I understand where people are coming from with racists and nazis coming out of the woodwork, but this idea that you need to prove your allegiance to the greater good or be branded something else is fucking insane. Silence does not equal complicity, life ain't that simple.
What???

Complicity trough silence is a moral concept which has been established for ages

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/complicity
Can't believe this is still being explained.
 

Unclebenny

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Mar 28, 2017
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Get lost with this noise. You want people in a videogame forum to come up with effective solutions to systemic racism and community apathy?

Actively trying to expunge an avowed exponent of horrible racist views from the community and diminish his influence isn't a good start is it?

How do we fight racism without engaging and diminishing the platform of racists?

This isn't an actually question. I don't want your response. You have set your stall out well in advance already. Stop trying to pretend you're the sensible one in the middle.
 

wumster3000

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Let me salvage this post, I think it was the most important one in that thread.

Code:
You can find many search results about the game that mention my name. Just search for:
"a hat in time" "peter valencia"

This is my art portfolio, showing off just a few of the many assets I made for the game.
[url]http://dropr.com/pvalencia/90246/a_h...me/+?p=1175265[/url]

I was the only one on the team who had the skills to create Snatcher in 3D. Snatcher was originally just a 2D sprite that was overlayed on the environment, but because of certain cutscenes he later had to be evolved into a full 3D animated mesh. However, this required shape key (also known as morph target) animation, something no one else on the team at the time knew how to do. I also created the pillow pile (the one you can "swim" in) in Hat Kid's spaceship, using a physics simulation. None of my colleagues knew how to do that either.

Yet despite all that, the company remained quiet after JonTron called people like me lazy welfare thieves that should be kept out of the gene pool. Not even a measly tweet saying they disagree with him.

Regardless of how much money they end up making, they're going to have to live with the consequences of this for years to come. They've now established an audience firmly within neo-Nazi and alt-right circles, and they'll have to constantly avoid offending that crowd in the future to stay in business. Best of luck with that, Gears for Breakfast.

Not buying it. Thanks for this.
 

black070

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Oct 1, 2015
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Ok, this is getting ridiculous. I understand where people are coming from with racists and nazis coming out of the woodwork, but this idea that you need to prove your allegiance to the greater good or be branded something else is fucking insane. Silence does not equal complicity, life ain't that simple.

What is preventing them from speaking out ?
 

excelsiorlef

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Sep 20, 2014
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Ok, this is getting ridiculous. I understand where people are coming from with racists and nazis coming out of the woodwork, but this idea that you need to prove your allegiance to the greater good or be branded something else is fucking insane. Silence does not equal complicity, life ain't that simple.

When you put a guy in your game because of who he is (a famous YouTuber) and he turns out to be a white supremacist... yes you should say something.

It's not like this guy was hired because of his VA skills
 

Drek

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Jun 10, 2004
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Complicity and collaboration are active words, they signify an action not a lack thereof, so this is quite confusing usage of these words and at the same time it makes it difficult to properly describe someone who, in my sense of the word, is complicit or collaborates, e.g. by distributing, advertising or protecting racist claims, racists or racist actions. Differentiating between those two things, I feel, is not irrelevant.

If it's not irrelevant you should probably learn what complicit actually means then. Example sentences from Oxford:
‘Scholars have become complicit, facilitators instead of critics and creators.'
‘In some way, we the fans were complicit in this failure because we consoled ourselves too easily.'
‘Search engines and advertisers have become complicit in the same self-delusion.'
‘However, their over-the-top rock cabaret works because the audience are hysterically complicit.'
‘Thanks to a coincidence of complexion, we are complicit and we will pay.'
‘Doping is very, very seldom accidental and almost always involves people complicit in the effort.'
‘And I watched every minute of it, aware that I was now complicit in the conspiracy.'
‘Landowners who are found to be complicit in the unauthorised dumping of waste may also be hauled before court.'
‘If I do not speak out against this nonchalant murder of innocents, I am complicit with my government.'
‘It doesn't help that they're aided and abetted by a complicit media.'
‘So they know that they were uncomfortably put in a position of being complicit in a cover-up.'
‘I felt complicit in the process which allowed this book to happen.'
‘Worse, we become complicit in extending suffering - not just our own, but that of others also.'
‘At the very least, he said, they were complicit in the victory of evil.'
‘The press, he adds, has been complicit in turning a blind eye to the government's record.'
‘But we, the final arbiters of what qualifies a photograph for immortality, are complicit in this.'

All of these examples are from a passive stance. When you know you're associated with something wrong and you do nothing you are complicit.

Contracts with NDAs are a thing. We don't know if its the case, but it would make sense.

You really think they have a contract with NDA that includes a full gag order for this minor voice roll and the other party espousing genetic purity doesn't in any way void that agreement?

The reality distortion needed to twist this into Gears for Breakfast as the victim here is outright insane.
 
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Ok, this is getting ridiculous. I understand where people are coming from with racists and nazis coming out of the woodwork, but this idea that you need to prove your allegiance to the greater good or be branded something else is fucking insane. Silence does not equal complicity, life ain't that simple.
The devs created this product that happens to contain jon trons voice acting. the dev teams complete silence on this matter is a indirect cosign of his opinions and actions. Im not suee how it can be argued otherwise
 

Christhor

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erlim

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Complicity and collaboration are active words, they signify an action not a lack thereof, so this is quite confusing usage of these words and at the same time it makes it difficult to properly describe someone who, in my sense of the word, is complicit or collaborates, e.g. by distributing, advertising or protecting racist claims, racists or racist actions. Differentiating between those two things, I feel, is not irrelevant.

Holy moly dude; it's cool if you want the game. It's your money, it's your right. But what value does it serve to argue this poster on syntax?

People find JonTron's ideas on racial cleansing extremely unsavory and harmful. At a certain point, behavior is so detestable it inevitably becomes a focal point and needs to be addressed. Period.

Look at how these anti-neogaf communities constantly bring up Am0rix. Harboring such individuals reflects extremely poorly on a community.

When you have somebody that's not only stepped out of line with racially charged remarks, but articulated a philosophy of strongly overt prejudice, hate, and racial cleansing---there's a point where protecting that person---either actively or by silence will poison the well.

Don't debase somebody's argument on syntax. That's just low.

I don't see how this game really advertises Jontron or his ideas, because the normal player will not realise who he even is. Afterall it's just a voice in a video game - outside of him, Kirkhope for DK in DK64 and Charles Martinet for all kinds of Mario characters, I think I have never even realised who speaks a role in a game and if Jontron's voice work isn't exceptionally great (which it does not seem to be by the comments made in this thread), I also do not see many ordinary people (so ones not invested with Jontron either way) to ever realise who he is.

Look, just because somebody is unaware who he is doesn't mean his inclusion shouldn't be highly scrutinized.

He has said what he's said, and done what he's done. It's disgusting. Are you asking the rest of us, who are in the know, to be blind to it just because some people don't know who he is?
 

CecilRousso

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I wouldn't want to spend money on this when I know about it, and I haven't heard the devs commenting it. But I sure won't condemn anyone buying this without knowing about it, which will probably the majority of the purchasers.

I've had The Secret of Monkey Island as favorite game of mine since the early 90's, but I absolutely reject the idea that it would make me a supporter of Orson Scott Card's awful personal opinions, despite him contributing dialog to that game.
 

teacupcopter

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Ok, this is getting ridiculous. I understand where people are coming from with racists and nazis coming out of the woodwork, but this idea that you need to prove your allegiance to the greater good or be branded something else is fucking insane. Silence does not equal complicity, life ain't that simple.

Standing by as others accept nazism is pretty bad.

It’s like- not all trump voters were racist, but they were ok with him encouraging and being ok with racism and white supremacy. You see how that could make people uncomfortable?
 

Stone Ocean

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May 27, 2013
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Standing by as others accept nazism is pretty bad.

It’s like- not all trump voters were racist, but they were ok with him encouraging and being ok with racism and white supremacy. You see how that could make people uncomfortable?
Voting for trump is an active stance, not an omission of a stance.
 

Yoshi

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Holy moly dude; it's cool if you want the game. It's your money, it's your right. But what value does it serve to argue this poster on syntax?

People find JonTron's ideas on racial cleansing extremely unsavory and harmful. At a certain point, behavior is so detestable it inevitably becomes a focal point and needs to be addressed. Period.

Look at how these anti-neogaf communities constantly bring up Am0rix. Harboring such individuals reflects extremely poorly on a community.

When you have somebody that's not only stepped out of line with racially charged remarks, but articulated a philosophy of strongly overt prejudice, hate, and racial cleansing---there's a point where protecting that person---either actively or by silence will poison the well.

Don't debase somebody's argument on syntax. That's just low.
I think you mean semantics. And actually in regard to the word complicit, I agree to the previous postings (and retract my point on the contrary), that one could see this as a form of complictness, though I also feel his spoutings are too far detached from the project for me to actively use this word. Collaboration though I maintain is a word that necessitates action, and also one that is concerned with the malicious action in question. Otherwise I would have trouble with finding words to describe actual collaboration.



Look, just because somebody is unaware who he is doesn't mean his inclusion shouldn't be highly scrutinized.

He has said what he's said, and done what he's done. It's disgusting. Are you asking the rest of us, who are in the know, to be blind to it just because some people don't know who he is?
No, I am not, I was just wondering how his inclusion can be harmful to others, who do not know about him. It is your right to be upset about his inclusion, I just do not see the grounds to say that his work on A Hat in Time can lead to negative consequences in the way of distributing his hate speech.
Standing by as others accept nazism is pretty bad.

It's like- not all trump voters were racist, but they were ok with him encouraging and being ok with racism and white supremacy. You see how that could make people uncomfortable?

Voting for Trump is actively politically enabling him, I would say that this is much worse than what is happening with AHiT. And it is outright shocking that half the US population thought he would be a fine choice... You do not need to be a racist to vote for Trump, but if you aren't, you need to not care about racism at all or you need to be amazingly stupid / uninformed.
 

erlim

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I wouldn't want to spend money on this when I know about it, and I haven't heard the devs commenting it. But I sure won't condemn anyone buying this without knowing about it, which will probably the majority of the purchasers.

I've had The Secret of Monkey Island as favorite game of mine since the early 90's, but I absolutely reject the idea that it would make me a supporter of Orson Scott Card's awful personal opinions, despite him contributing dialog to that game.

I love monkey island too. The entire series. Hell, I really enjoy enders game. But there is a a difference between Orson Scott Card, or James Woods, or anybody in traditional media than there is to somebody actively promoting hateful rhetoric who has a direct rapport and consequence over their viewers.
 

Kusagari

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No, I am not, I was just wondering how his inclusion can be harmful to others, who do not know about him. It is your right to be upset about his inclusion, I just do not see the grounds to say that his work on A Hat in Time can lead to negative consequences in the way of distributing his hate speech.

Because there is a higher than zero chance that someone will discover JonTron through his voice acting in the game.
 

Yoshi

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Because there is a non-negative chance that someone will discover JonTron through his voice acting in the game.
Is it positive though? Because non-negative says nothing here (it is non-negative for all games ever made, without his influence). I am actually not quite sure, though I would deem it unlikely there is someone who does not read about this topic somewhere else, who, on his own volition seeks out the speaker of one character in the game and consequently discovers Jontron.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
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I love monkey island too. The entire series. Hell, I really enjoy enders game. But there is a a difference between Orson Scott Card, or James Woods, or anybody in traditional media than there is to somebody actively promoting hateful rhetoric who has a direct rapport and consequence over their viewers.

What's the issue with Orson Scott Card? I only know the movie Ender's Game, but it appeared to me as a movie that was quite critical of war propaganda and I enjoyed it a lot in terms of its societal / political position, as well, so I am surprised to see this brought up in this context.
 
May 5, 2017
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Is it positive though? Because non-negative says nothing here (it is non-negative for all games ever made, without his influence). I am actually not quite sure, though I would deem it unlikely there is someone who does not read about this topic somewhere else, who, on his own volition seeks out the speaker of one character in the game and consequently discovers Jontron.
Are you really trying to pass jts involvement in this game as not a big deal?
 

erlim

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What's the issue with Orson Scott Card? I only know the movie Ender's Game, but it appeared to me as a movie that was quite critical of war propaganda and I enjoyed it a lot in terms of its societal / political position, as well, so I am surprised to see this brought up in this context.

homophobia.

I think you mean semantics. And actually in regard to the word complicit, I agree to the previous postings (and retract my point on the contrary), that one could see this as a form of complictness, though I also feel his spoutings are too far detached from the project for me to actively use this word. Collaboration though I maintain is a word that necessitates action, and also one that is concerned with the malicious action in question. Otherwise I would have trouble with finding words to describe actual collaboration.



No, I am not, I was just wondering how his inclusion can be harmful to others, who do not know about him. It is your right to be upset about his inclusion, I just do not see the grounds to say that his work on A Hat in Time can lead to negative consequences in the way of distributing his hate speech.

Voting for Trump is actively politically enabling him, I would say that this is much worse than what is happening with AHiT. And it is outright shocking that half the US population thought he would be a fine choice... You do not need to be a racist to vote for Trump, but if you aren't, you need to not care about racism at all or you need to be amazingly stupid / uninformed.

On a philosophical level, independent of a consumers free-right to purchase or not purchase this game---why do you believe that JonTron should continue to be offered employment and opportunities to increase his popularity and brand?

He has a direct rapport and dialogue with his fans and followers, which many celebrities do not.

How is this different than HR firing a person in a company whose overt racism disturbs their co-workers? Should such a person be allowed to remain in an environment simply because they aren't indoctrinating the people around them to their views?
 

RionaaM

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Voting for trump is an active stance, not an omission of a stance.
The result of both actions is the same, though. By not condemning racism you are implying it isn't a dealbreaker to you.

Bear in mind, in another thread I already said I get that Gears for Breakfast probably wanted to avoid the harassment that happened to Playtonic, which is why I'm not really condemning them. That said, I will never buy this, because despite my understanding I refuse to spend my money and time on a game that features an outspoken white supremacist and whose devs haven't said or done anything about said racist.
 
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It may even be in the contract that he has been paid already and therefore unable to removed from the game. we don't know the ins and outs.
 
Nov 26, 2015
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Just woke up. From reading the last couple pages, I assume nothing has been really added since last night, since the Polygon article?
 

erlim

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It may even be in the contract that he has been paid already and therefore unable to removed from the game. we don't know the ins and outs.

I imagine contracts which have a clause to allow a person to go buck wild promoting racist political stances are few and far in between.
 

Prithee Be Careful

Industry Professional
Sep 16, 2016
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Effective way? Money don't give them money easiest and simplest way.

Yeah, totally agree - if people want to boycott a Hat in Time, I think that's perfectly justified. I can't pretend I was keen on the game before hand, but I think if I had have been this would have been cause for me to reconsider.

That said, it don't think it tackles the wider problem. The people who voted for Trump last year won't suddenly rethink their political allegianes because A Hat in Time didn't meet with sales expectations. I still thinks it's important - definitely a fit subject for debate on a dedicated gaming forum - but like I say, the question is about actually making a difference and improving things.

Insults, I don't think, can ever really help - even when they're really really justified and I think, yeah, it's totally fine to say JonTron is a complete and utter deploreable. At the same time, true and justified as that might essentially be. He's still a big twat, with a whole load of twatty followers and the more you kick that hornets nest there more fucking determined it gets.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, people like that aren't looking for de-escalation, they're looking to feed off the bad blood, they're hoping it comes to blows. You keep punching back you just get both sides bloody and now they're even more determined.
 
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Let me salvage this post, I think it was the most important one in that thread.

Code:
You can find many search results about the game that mention my name. Just search for:
"a hat in time" "peter valencia"

This is my art portfolio, showing off just a few of the many assets I made for the game.
[url]http://dropr.com/pvalencia/90246/a_h...me/+?p=1175265[/url]

I was the only one on the team who had the skills to create Snatcher in 3D. Snatcher was originally just a 2D sprite that was overlayed on the environment, but because of certain cutscenes he later had to be evolved into a full 3D animated mesh. However, this required shape key (also known as morph target) animation, something no one else on the team at the time knew how to do. I also created the pillow pile (the one you can "swim" in) in Hat Kid's spaceship, using a physics simulation. None of my colleagues knew how to do that either.

Yet despite all that, the company remained quiet after JonTron called people like me lazy welfare thieves that should be kept out of the gene pool. Not even a measly tweet saying they disagree with him.

Regardless of how much money they end up making, they're going to have to live with the consequences of this for years to come. They've now established an audience firmly within neo-Nazi and alt-right circles, and they'll have to constantly avoid offending that crowd in the future to stay in business. Best of luck with that, Gears for Breakfast.

This makes it a little more gross, and now I don't think I can buy the game and ignore JT's involvement. The sad thing is, unless they have the time and money to get a new voice actor and re record those lines and pay to certify a new patch, it's likely not getting fixed.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
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Are you really trying to pass jts involvement in this game as not a big deal?
No, I'm just not seeing how his involvment, as it stands now, will lead to distributing his hate speech or his channel beyond people already aware of it (in itself, naturally, this topic or reaction topics like on Steam may have the effect).

homophobia.
Thanks, then I see how I could not observe this, since homosexualism is, as far as I am aware, not a topic in Ender's Game.


On a philosophical level, independent of a consumers free-right to purchase or not purchase this game---why do you believe that JonTron should continue to be offered employment and opportunities to increase his popularity and brand?

He has a direct rapport and dialogue with his fans and followers, which many celebrities do not.

How is this different than HR firing a person in a company whose overt racism disturbs their co-workers? Should such a person be allowed to remain in an environment simply because they aren't indoctrinating the people around them to their views?
I cannot answer this question, because I do not think he should. Well, of course, if quite a bit of time has passed, it should not exclude him from ever getting a job again, no matter what he does or say in between (Because I do not think one should be held accountable for previous mistakes for all one's life. There should be some indication he learned from it though), but for now, I think one should not hire him for anything that could serve as a platform for publicity in any way. I would definitely not hire him.
 
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Sad reality is how them not taking a stance will likely result in harassment being kept to a minimum. When YL removed jontron every little edgy alt right kid online went to every avenue they could think of to harrass the game and game developers because all of a sudden Jontron was the only reason they were getting the game.

I can't imagine people who aren't getting this game because of Jon's involvement will be nearly as vocal and childish with their attacks.
 

erlim

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This makes it a little more gross, and now I don't think I can buy the game and ignore JT's involvement. The sad thing is, unless they have the time and money to get a new voice actor and re record those lines and pay to certify a new patch, it's likely not getting fixed.

This is just my anecdotal experience of being in film production, but getting a new actor to ADR lines is not difficult logistically or cost prohibitive financially.

Had a film where the director and a leading actress engaged in a relationship, then broke up. Director adamantly refused to allow the actress to ADR some of her lines. A person somewhat resembling her timbre was brought in to dub.
 

Jimnymebob

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You have someone using his influence to advocate ethnic cleansing and this is your primary concern.

Are you seriously trying to imply that I don't care that JonTron advocates ethnic cleansing?

My point is that I don't believe people who are going to innocently purchase the game, even if they know about the whole situation with JonTron, and what came to light a few months back, should be judged as being sympathetic with his views by anybody. This is a situation that people here at NeoGAF, and across all other gaming communities, can actively try to prevent. We could sit and debate just how vile his views are for days, but in my opinion, the only one who can do anything to remedy that is JonTron himself.

Obviously, this doesn't apply to those who are publicly announcing that his inclusion in the game, and his views, are the reason they are purchasing it.

I would have said the devs don't deserve to be judged as being sympathetic with his views, but unless they're under NDA and can't mention it for whatever reason, personally that grace period is running out in my opinion. If the devs suffer from not releasing a statement/addressing the issue, I can only hope that it can serve as a positive message for others in the future, that people aren't OK with people like JonTron being involved in projects, and that they aren't willing to support it, but, as I stated above, that they shouldn't automatically assume that everyone who is supporting the product is supporting the person, or anyone else involved with its creation who does.
 

CecilRousso

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I love monkey island too. The entire series. Hell, I really enjoy enders game. But there is a a difference between Orson Scott Card, or James Woods, or anybody in traditional media than there is to somebody actively promoting hateful rhetoric who has a direct rapport and consequence over their viewers.

Does how hateful someone is matter? Orson Scott Card hasn't just randomly said something, he has actively discussed his opinions at several occasions.

And with that are we really discussing degrees about it, or is the principle that matters? As I said in my post, it's putting blame about those who don't know about the involved peoples opinions, that I object to, that has been suggested here in the thread.
 
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No, I'm just not seeing how his involvment, as it stands now, will lead to distributing his hate speech or his channel beyond people already aware of it (in itself, naturally, this topic or reaction topics like on Steam may have the effect).
How involvement as it stands is free publicity for jon tron the person as well as his hateful rhetoric. Are you saying its impossible for people to research voice actors? im confused what you're trying to get across. In no shape or form can his VS inclusion be seen as anything other than a postiive endorsement of his hate speech
 
Nov 26, 2015
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Sad reality is how them not taking a stance will likely result in harassment being kept to a minimum. When YL removed jontron every little edgy alt right kid online went to every avenue they could think of to harrass the game and game developers because all of a sudden Jontron was the only reason they were getting the game.

I can't imagine people who aren't getting this game because of Jon's involvement will be nearly as vocal and childish with their attacks.

Yea, pretty much.

I also would contend that if Gears had removed Jon 7 months ago during the YL events it would not have been nearly as damaging to them and would have blown over soon after.

YL was in a worse position, where Jon came out with his eugenic/ethnostate comments moments before the game's launch and they had to act quick. Playtonics resolve was also very impressive. I'd view it as, they tanked the most backlash from racists, but set precedent so that people like this, and especially Jontron wouldn't continue to get cameos in the gaming scene. They made it easier for anyone to follow their decision.

Here's Playtonic's statement, in case anyone is curious.

JonTron is a talented video presenter who we were initially, two years ago, happy to include as a voice contributor in our game. However, in light of his recent personal viewpoints we have made the decision to remove JonTron's inclusion in the game via a forthcoming content update. We would like to make absolutely clear that we do not endorse or support JonTron's personal viewpoints and that, as an external fan contributor, he does not represent Playtonic in any capacity. Playtonic is a studio that celebrates diversity in all forms and strives to make games that everyone can enjoy. As such, we deeply regret any implied association that could make players feel anything but 100% comfortable in our game worlds, or distract from the incredible goodwill and love shown by our fans and Kickstarter backers."
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
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How involvement as it stands is free publicity for jon tron the person as well as his hateful rhetoric. Are you saying its impossible for people to research voice actors? im confused what you're trying to get across. In no shape or form can his VS inclusion be seen as anything other than a postiive endorsement of his hate speech
No, it is not impssible, of course not, but I just see no reason why anyone should, especially for such a game. I see his inclusion not as an endorsement of what he said, because the decision to include him predates the things he said, so the decision cannot be a consequence of his hate speech.

Homosexuality....

Homosexualism is usually used by right wing groups to make being gay out to be like being something you recruit people into like communism.

Sorry, it was the wrong "nomification" of the word. English is not my native language, but I try to remember the distinction. Actually, homosexuality is closer to the German word for it, so it is strange I made this mistake.

EDIT: Thinking about it, it is probably the case because I read "sexism" much more than "sexuality" around here.
 

NandoGip

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Apr 21, 2013
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:eye_roll:

Love it how a racist rant gets washed away and described as "inflammatory views"

call it what the fuck it is
 

Lime

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Apr 27, 2008
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Complicity and collaboration are active words, they signify an action not a lack thereof, so this is quite confusing usage of these words and at the same time it makes it difficult to properly describe someone who, in my sense of the word, is complicit or collaborates, e.g. by distributing, advertising or protecting racist claims, racists or racist actions. Differentiating between those two things, I feel, is not irrelevant.

Sorry, I'm done with this concern trolling and gas lighting. Your M.O. is the same in these sorts of threads (like Sarkeesian threads for example), where you simply are "asking questions" and now you're trying to jump through hoops to disarm the criticism of silence = complicity. I am sorry, but I don't think you're acting in good faith in these conversations and I don't have time for throwing water at a wall. Maybe you're not aware of this, but you're doing the work of obscuring a discussion on how to approach the presence of neo-nazism in gaming culture and I'm not going to entertain it.
 

excelsiorlef

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Sep 20, 2014
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Sorry, it was the wrong "nomification" of the word. English is not my native language, but I try to remember the distinction. Actually, homosexuality is closer to the German word for it, so it is strange I made this mistake.

EDIT: Thinking about it, it is probably the case because I read "sexism" much more than "sexuality" around here.

No worries, just thought I'd let you know.
 
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