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Polygon - Exclusive: 19 Minutes of PHANTOM DUST Remastered Gameplay
- Thread starter Cheddahz
- Start date
OttoSporteman
Member
So the devs were able to render an OG Xbox game at 1080p/4K with no access to the source code:
"The biggest thing is moving [Phantom Dust] to 16:9 and moving to native resolution. So what that basically means is that if youre playing on Xbox One, youre running at 1080p so the game is going to render at 1080p; if youre on a PC and youre playing at 4K resolution, the game will render its assets at 4K,"
https://www.polygon.com/videos/2017...-2017-hd-rerelease-xbox-one-pc-gameplay-video
What could they do with old games from that era that they do have access to the source codes?
Perhaps this is a pilot for more re-releases of that era coming this way, in a way to fill that "generationless platform" that was so mentioned at E3 last year?
"The biggest thing is moving [Phantom Dust] to 16:9 and moving to native resolution. So what that basically means is that if youre playing on Xbox One, youre running at 1080p so the game is going to render at 1080p; if youre on a PC and youre playing at 4K resolution, the game will render its assets at 4K,"
https://www.polygon.com/videos/2017...-2017-hd-rerelease-xbox-one-pc-gameplay-video
What could they do with old games from that era that they do have access to the source codes?
Perhaps this is a pilot for more re-releases of that era coming this way, in a way to fill that "generationless platform" that was so mentioned at E3 last year?
Looking at the footage, I noticed that the guy appears to be playing this on PC with a keyboard and mouse. Which probably explains a bit of the stiffness in how he's moving around.
That. Is. Awesome. Makes me want to support it even more! Come ooooon, twenty dollars or less!
That. Is. Awesome. Makes me want to support it even more! Come ooooon, twenty dollars or less!
Adam also said this. But i dunno it doesn't seem like it's anything other than a port graphically.
I certainly see no "wizardry".
So getting a game up and running on two platforms it was never released on while looking better than it did at release and avoiding the issues that normally come with upscaling, all done while having no access to the games source code is just a walk in the park right?
OttoSporteman
Member
Xbox Game Pass launch title.
Let me clear the air a bit. I'm Adam Isgreen (mods feel free to verify), the guy talking in the interview.
My bad for not correcting Nick immediately on remaster vs. re-release. We had a fire drill go off during the interview (random, yes), and that certainly disrupted the flow of the conversation, as we picked up in the middle after I could get back in the building.
My personal story on PD is that I missed it on the original Xbox. I'm pretty ashamed of that since I adore all of Futatsugi-san's games, have all of the Panzers in both Japanese and English, including Saga (SEGA GIVE IT TO CODE MYSTICS!), and I somehow missed this game.
I first played it after hearing Phil mention that he constantly gets asked about it by press / fans on Twitter. Grabbed it on 360 BC. After the first hour I thought "what is all the fuss about?". It starts slow and doesn't pick up until you get past Chapter 2 and can build arsenals (decks), which can be a good two hours into the game. Once that happens in campaign, and when you start to play multiplayer, this light goes on and you realize how deep and amazing this game is at its heart. 13 years and there's no perfect deck to the game. Stick skill and deck planning are equally as important. Teamwork is insanely rewarding. There's a skill that does anything you can possibly imagine you could do in arena-based combat.
Consider me converted. I get it now. More people need to grok this game. I'm part of the cult, and that's OK, because it's a great cult to be in.
The game is a re-release of the 2004 game with improvements that were possible to do without having final source code. I get that many just don't care about that point (should you need to?) but it is what it is and it is a huge deal to not have access to source yet try to improve things anyway. Could we have done more if we had working final source code? Yes, without a doubt, but that wasn't the case.
Let me add that Code Mystics (the development team) are absolute ninjas. This was a 2004 4:3 game. They cracked open and rewrote the renderer, fixed the culling (making the screen display 16x9 is only the first part of the issue), added LIVE support, enabled easy balance tuning, got cross-play working, re-enabled hundreds of custom shaders and VFX (DX8 to DX11 is not a fun conversion, I've learned), made UI changes, and got the framerate to a massively stable 30 FPS on any machine / platform, all while not being able to truly modify the game at its core. That is a feat. Likely you have to be in development to appreciate that, but it's not easy work.
Why isn't it 60 FPS?
The entire engine was built around the game running at 30 FPS. Everything in the code and data is either frames @ 30, assumes 30, or hard-coded to expect 30 FPS.
The frame rate averages 30 FPS now on a wide range of systems. The worst dips we've seen are to 26/27 in certain moments. This is massively improved from the original (for those that played it) which would drop into the teens constantly on destruction events.
Here's PC min-specs:
OS: Windows 10 64-bit
Processor: Intel Core2 Duo E6550 @ 2.33GHz | AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5600+
Memory: 1 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 | AMD Radeon HD 7750
DirectX: Version 11
Network: Broadband Internet connection
It's an XPA title, so cross-play and cross-saves are supported.
Why original assets?
Because we didn't have source is the major reason, and also because for a 2004 game, it holds up well in comparison to other games from that time. That's subjective of course, but we're trying to capture and preserve what PD was, not re-create it. It was funky, certainly, and that's part of its DNA.
Why wasn't a date / price announced?
We're re-releasing PD because we love its unique gameplay and style. Everyone here at MS wants PD to get a chance to be played, so sometimes dates, price, and how to get it broad exposure is debated a lot. Gold? Not? Free? Not? Other programs? It goes back and forth, and many different groups are in that discussion. The short of it is that we want everyone to be able to play PD, so you can expect it'll be priced accordingly.
OMG there's micro-transactions?!
Yes, to accelerate multiplayer deck building. It is completely optional. The campaign gets you a lot of skills and credits to use just by playing through it. You also earn skills and credits just by playing MP as well. PD already has a skill shop, credits, random "junk" packs, rare skills, and everything you'd seen in games today -- and it did all that in 2004.
There's also free skills and a deck case you get to start MP off with, so that if you don't want to play the campaign, you don't have to.
Graphics are dated, meme.jpg, etc.
Yep! It's a game from 2004. We preserved its look, but really you shouldn't be hung up on looks here because this is a player's game, not a looker's game. Design-wise and mechanically, you will not find another game that plays like it, even today (closest in feeling is MOBAs, actually).
Sometimes (well, OK, often) we make games to make money, but this re-release isn't focused on that. It's about recognizing something unique and novel, and allowing more people to discover it. PD's play - especially multiplayer - is completely unique and (IMO) very, very fun. It never got a chance to prove that on its original (limited) release, so now more people get to discover it, which is all we want out of it.
So I'll simply close by saying play first, then judge. Feel free to tweet me your thoughts once it's out (@Ishmae1) and I'll be happy to discuss it with you.
My bad for not correcting Nick immediately on remaster vs. re-release. We had a fire drill go off during the interview (random, yes), and that certainly disrupted the flow of the conversation, as we picked up in the middle after I could get back in the building.
My personal story on PD is that I missed it on the original Xbox. I'm pretty ashamed of that since I adore all of Futatsugi-san's games, have all of the Panzers in both Japanese and English, including Saga (SEGA GIVE IT TO CODE MYSTICS!), and I somehow missed this game.
I first played it after hearing Phil mention that he constantly gets asked about it by press / fans on Twitter. Grabbed it on 360 BC. After the first hour I thought "what is all the fuss about?". It starts slow and doesn't pick up until you get past Chapter 2 and can build arsenals (decks), which can be a good two hours into the game. Once that happens in campaign, and when you start to play multiplayer, this light goes on and you realize how deep and amazing this game is at its heart. 13 years and there's no perfect deck to the game. Stick skill and deck planning are equally as important. Teamwork is insanely rewarding. There's a skill that does anything you can possibly imagine you could do in arena-based combat.
Consider me converted. I get it now. More people need to grok this game. I'm part of the cult, and that's OK, because it's a great cult to be in.
The game is a re-release of the 2004 game with improvements that were possible to do without having final source code. I get that many just don't care about that point (should you need to?) but it is what it is and it is a huge deal to not have access to source yet try to improve things anyway. Could we have done more if we had working final source code? Yes, without a doubt, but that wasn't the case.
Let me add that Code Mystics (the development team) are absolute ninjas. This was a 2004 4:3 game. They cracked open and rewrote the renderer, fixed the culling (making the screen display 16x9 is only the first part of the issue), added LIVE support, enabled easy balance tuning, got cross-play working, re-enabled hundreds of custom shaders and VFX (DX8 to DX11 is not a fun conversion, I've learned), made UI changes, and got the framerate to a massively stable 30 FPS on any machine / platform, all while not being able to truly modify the game at its core. That is a feat. Likely you have to be in development to appreciate that, but it's not easy work.
Why isn't it 60 FPS?
The entire engine was built around the game running at 30 FPS. Everything in the code and data is either frames @ 30, assumes 30, or hard-coded to expect 30 FPS.
The frame rate averages 30 FPS now on a wide range of systems. The worst dips we've seen are to 26/27 in certain moments. This is massively improved from the original (for those that played it) which would drop into the teens constantly on destruction events.
Here's PC min-specs:
OS: Windows 10 64-bit
Processor: Intel Core2 Duo E6550 @ 2.33GHz | AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5600+
Memory: 1 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 | AMD Radeon HD 7750
DirectX: Version 11
Network: Broadband Internet connection
It's an XPA title, so cross-play and cross-saves are supported.
Why original assets?
Because we didn't have source is the major reason, and also because for a 2004 game, it holds up well in comparison to other games from that time. That's subjective of course, but we're trying to capture and preserve what PD was, not re-create it. It was funky, certainly, and that's part of its DNA.
Why wasn't a date / price announced?
We're re-releasing PD because we love its unique gameplay and style. Everyone here at MS wants PD to get a chance to be played, so sometimes dates, price, and how to get it broad exposure is debated a lot. Gold? Not? Free? Not? Other programs? It goes back and forth, and many different groups are in that discussion. The short of it is that we want everyone to be able to play PD, so you can expect it'll be priced accordingly.
OMG there's micro-transactions?!
Yes, to accelerate multiplayer deck building. It is completely optional. The campaign gets you a lot of skills and credits to use just by playing through it. You also earn skills and credits just by playing MP as well. PD already has a skill shop, credits, random "junk" packs, rare skills, and everything you'd seen in games today -- and it did all that in 2004.
There's also free skills and a deck case you get to start MP off with, so that if you don't want to play the campaign, you don't have to.
Graphics are dated, meme.jpg, etc.
Yep! It's a game from 2004. We preserved its look, but really you shouldn't be hung up on looks here because this is a player's game, not a looker's game. Design-wise and mechanically, you will not find another game that plays like it, even today (closest in feeling is MOBAs, actually).
Sometimes (well, OK, often) we make games to make money, but this re-release isn't focused on that. It's about recognizing something unique and novel, and allowing more people to discover it. PD's play - especially multiplayer - is completely unique and (IMO) very, very fun. It never got a chance to prove that on its original (limited) release, so now more people get to discover it, which is all we want out of it.
So I'll simply close by saying play first, then judge. Feel free to tweet me your thoughts once it's out (@Ishmae1) and I'll be happy to discuss it with you.
*sigh*...
This is a for sure thing
Beer Monkey
Member
It IS that version.
Sigh. 480i fuzzed up old 3D games so much that people thought they looked better than they did.
Thank you for all the hard work to bring this game back, and while it sucks this thread has been going the direction its in, just know a lot of us are happy to have this game back.
Also if you don't mind, give my regards to the team at Code Mystics. Sounds like they did an amazing and difficult job that probably wont receive the appreciation it deserves.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Thank you for the comment, sir.
Hope the whole before E3 release is still true, I will take an E3 release as well though lol
Nonsense.
Here are some screenshots from the original version.
The image quality is much better now.
So, cross buy, cross saves... cross-platform multiplayer? :3
But yeah, I can understand a bit of that technical stuff. Like, getting the game to work at all like it is now is pretty much wizardry.
Teknopathetic
Member
Honestly, just getting released with online play was all I needed. 30fps was expected. Arbitrary resolution is good to hear.
The game is godlike. The card game aspect makes it a hard game for the uninitiated to appreciate from just a video look.
The game is godlike. The card game aspect makes it a hard game for the uninitiated to appreciate from just a video look.
sixteen-bit
Member
It's a 2004/5 game, btw. In no territory did it come out in 2003.
get2sammyb
Member
Yeah, fair enough. I just mean... This isn't like getting Bluepoint in or anything like that. But you're right, it's difficult to classify.
It looks way rougher from what I remember and I played the shit outta that game. It looks like its slightly half assed TBH. They should've just used the modeling from the other developer they yanked it from and use that existing engine.
Edit: just saw those comparison shot to the old and remaster from another post. I'll wait and see how it holds up when it gets released
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Nice post Adam. Now get cracking on the other Xbox classics with wider appeal!
Crimson Skies, PGR2, Rallisport 2 etc. Also the Goldeneye remaster which we know Rare already made.
Thanks again!
Crimson Skies, PGR2, Rallisport 2 etc. Also the Goldeneye remaster which we know Rare already made.
Thanks again!
They didn't have the budget or access to the source code, they reverse engineered the game basically.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Jesus they had to do this without the source code.
What was it with Japanese developers and not preserving source code for games?
What was it with Japanese developers and not preserving source code for games?
My bad. I constantly deal with the pre-release side, which is all '03-04 stuff. I'll correct that in my post.
The original launched at $20 in NA...so I expect the same or $5-$10 below that
The game launched at 20 bucks in 2004.
Its either gonna be cheaper, free, or part of a subscription.
Edit: Beaten
But it didn't have microtransactions in 2003. I'm happy to see a re-release of an old game, but it is disappointing that while it's a"port" where you couldn't change too much, you still found a way to add microtransactions. And yes, I know the PR answer is that it's optional and won't affect the game, but it usually does and it's hard to see that it won't, when people who choose to pay to unlock the cards, will have them long before other players.
Kssio_Aug
Member
That probably explains a lot. Thanks for all the info!
Welcome to 2017. Its a given at this point.
GHG
Member
Saved me a post. Glad I'm not the only one who finds that aspect out of all of this to be a bit of a piss take.
That said, I'm still keen to check this out and see what the fuss is about provided the microtransactions genuinely don't change the balance of the game.
It's a wait and see for me.
It doesn't matter what year it is, it doesn't make it acceptable.
Teknopathetic
Member
"That said, I'm still keen to check this out and see what the fuss is about provided the microtransactions genuinely don't change the balance of the game."
If (if) you can still unlock skills normally, you unlock almost every single skill in the game over the course of the (rather solid) single player story campaign.
If (if) you can still unlock skills normally, you unlock almost every single skill in the game over the course of the (rather solid) single player story campaign.
You can still unlock everything normally, and the MP shop now always acts as if you've finished the campaign, so there's a chance for any skill to be available (including ultra-rares) every time you visit the MP shop.
Also, you can now skip campaign missions after 3 retry attempts, and we still give you all the skill / credit rewards.
And you can still trade skills and credits online.
Oh man this game came out in 2004? I was still a teenager and I remember getting it on sale on my base exchange for some insane deal and said "what the hell?". Like you mention, it starts slow but slowly opens up to a deep card/rpg/fps type game. I was so sad that I couldn't play it with anyone as theres so many combinations to try! I had thought of this as the greatest OG Xbox game (well I liked Crimson Skies too!) so I'm glad it's coming back in some form. Thanks for adding more info to the gameplay clip.
Do you still have to unlock the 74 DLC skills or are those available immediately?
I remember you use to have to get like 30 wins to get one.
Thank you for the info! Also, thank you to everyone involved, been looking forward to it. And yes, Sega should def give Code Mystics the chance!
The DLC skills will be released all at once a bit after we're launched, and it won't be nearly as painful to get them all.
A new PD would be amazing to see. Hoping this remake leads to people seeing how cool and unique PD really was.
All the deck building and skill stuff would be a real crowd pleaser in today's market. People love playing card games and people love punching stuff in the face!
cartoon_soldier
Member
Wait, they did this without having access to the source code? How?
Yeah I'm thinking a lot of the negative impressions are from people who aren't that familiar with the original game. I thought it was a fine looking Remaster.
I'm guessing it's all emulator based. I don't know how else they could do it.
Great post/information.
Thanks for that.
Also, don't worry...many of us are actually capable of seeing what you're delivering and can acknowledge the time/what this game came from.
I can't imagine what it took with no source code.