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Possible PS5 leak info

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Ar¢tos

Member
Sony should have a reveal event that feels like being inside one of the crazy TV commercials from the ps2 era.
I really miss crazy Sony from the 2000's.
yikes what kind of bloated os takes 8gb and 2 cores? I was hoping they would use secondary arm cores for the os
4k DVR will need lot more memory than 1080p. The system only saves to HDD when the user manually saves the video clip.
I was hoping for a secondary processor with 8gb DDR3 for this.
 
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demigod

Member
Yes, it said devkits had 32GB of RAM and for the final console they were planning 8GB for the system and 16 to 24GB for games. CPU would be a Ryzen 8 core 16 thread at 2,8Ghz and 2 cores would be reserved to the system. 7nm devkits would only ship by march.

So what specs are the devkits besides 32GB RAM?
 
Sony should have a reveal event that feels like being inside one of the crazy TV commercials from the ps2 era.
I really miss crazy Sony from the 2000's.
4k DVR will need lot more memory than 1080p. The system only saves to HDD when the user manually saves the video clip.
I was hoping for a secondary processor with 8gb DDR3 for this.

Can't really remember PS4 devkit specs, but I don't think they necessarily had secondary processor until very late / close to launch. Someone here remember?
 

Noctis114

Neo Member
Wonder what kind of blu ray disc they'll implement on the PS5/Xbox Scarlett.

Given that 9th gen games will rack up to 100gb+ with ease
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
How can you say someone didn't need to comment when you was the one who quoted me running your mouth? like I said you didn't say anything worth responding to that's why I quoted your tag & moved on.
Because unlike you i addressed your comment with valid points, whilst you just unneedfully quoted my tag in an attempt to provoke.
 
Thanks. Problem now is every man and his dog will crawl out of the woodwork to claim they know stuff. This is where previous known insiders are valuable to come in and give real info/hints/guidance.

It will be a nightmare if we have 2 more years of this crap....
Yes :/

Anyway... OsirisBlack OsirisBlack can you say if any of this is close to what you have heard?
 

EDMIX

Member
So what specs are the devkits besides 32GB RAM?

32GB is a safe bet.

I'm waiting to build my next PC build just based on what Sony or MS reveal lol
We all know they control what the next set of PC specs are likely to be so I want to wait at least a year or so.
 

SonGoku

Member
Well... when the PS4 released that ridiculously simple OS also used to take 2 cores + 3,5GB of RAM...!
and that was already bloated!
But now we are talking 8GB! and 2 much more capable Zen cores, waste of resources. They better deliver on that 32GB with that kind of OS expenditure.
I was hoping for a secondary processor with 8gb DDR3 for this.
THIS, its a waste to use GDDR6 (or any type of high bandwith memory) and highly capable zen cores on system resources
 
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TLZ

Banned
Yes, it said devkits had 32GB of RAM and for the final console they were planning 8GB for the system and 16 to 24GB for games. CPU would be a Ryzen 8 core 16 thread at 2,8Ghz and 2 cores would be reserved to the system. 7nm devkits would only ship by march.
Cool cool. So usually retail has a bit less RAM than devkits right? So 24gb sounds good?
 
Cool cool. So usually retail has a bit less RAM than devkits right? So 24gb sounds good?
The devkits are reaaaally early units though... so it could increase in future units... If this is true at all I think it might end up being 8GB of DDR3 or DDR4 for the system + 16 or 24GB of GDDR5X or HBM for games.
 

PrimeTime

Member
If you look at the PS4 branding, they don't call it "Playstation 4". They simply call it PS4. That alone makes this questionable.
 

Shin

Banned
8Gb is the cheapest density that's available ATM, Micron's 4Gb is still under development, Hynix, Samsung and that other company doesn't have anything less than 8Gb.
So it's a safe assumption that 16Gb will be the lowest we're looking at, 16+8 would be sufficient, the freed up money to GPU+CPU boost and core count.
Because even Shadow of whatever the hell with ultra textures uses max 11.x Gb and that game wasn't even made from the ground up for the 4K madness, so a lot can be improved there.
My point being wanting is nice, but it is not needed 16 GB will suffice but if you're inclined to fight this battle then by all means I welcome solid proof that we need more than 16.

All in all I wouldn't want them to waste money on memory that we might not need when it can be allocated to a beefier GPU and CPU.
1x16 or even 2x8 would draw a lot less power also (1.35v per chip) compared to the 1.5 - 1.8v with GDDR5 - less chips = less heat = higher clocks/cores.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
The devkits are reaaaally early units though... so it could increase in future units... If this is true at all I think it might end up being 8GB of DDR3 or DDR4 for the system + 16 or 24GB of GDDR5X or HBM for games.

I still can't equate dev kits (whatever sort they are) going out to lots of TP ~22+ months before a launch in late 2020. This would be far earlier than any TP got PS4 kits and we would have many more leaks surely?

As for RAM, I can't see the OS having a completely separate pool. I believe the PS4's now have a small separate pool of DDR3 but a lot of functions still have to use the GDDR5 pool and I don't think that will/can change for PS5?
 
The devkits are reaaaally early units though... so it could increase in future units... If this is true at all I think it might end up being 8GB of DDR3 or DDR4 for the system + 16 or 24GB of GDDR5X or HBM for games.

so why no DDR6? DDR5X has an unfortunate power profile. HBM is probably to expensive, but i wouldn't rule it out completely. I think they will prioritise bandwidth and power over sheer amount… as they should do.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
so why no DDR6? DDR5X has an unfortunate power profile. HBM is probably to expensive, but i wouldn't rule it out completely. I think they will prioritise bandwidth and power over sheer amount… as they should do.

I've never believed HBM was viable for the simple reason it is placed right on the SoC package. Adding another 10-15W or whatever to an already 100W+ APU would push heat levels even higher at a single point in an already small space.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Cool cool. So usually retail has a bit less RAM than devkits right? So 24gb sounds good?

Normally retail has half the RAM compared to the DevKit, unclear how having a dedicated memory pool for the OS would affect things.
PS4 has a dedicated 256 MB pool of RAM for the Secondary support processor (background downloads, suspend and resume, network and I/O) and then PS4 Pro received an extra 1 GB of lower speed DDR3 RAM to keep paused system applications (media apps like Netflix too) when user multitasked away to the home screen and/or launched a game. This was an extra 1 GB of GDDR5 given back to games as the OS used to keep that suspend buffer in the reserved space of the main memory pool shared with the games.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I still can't equate dev kits (whatever sort they are) going out to lots of TP ~22+ months before a launch in late 2020. This would be far earlier than any TP got PS4 kits and we would have many more leaks surely?

As for RAM, I can't see the OS having a completely separate pool. I believe the PS4's now have a small separate pool of DDR3 but a lot of functions still have to use the GDDR5 pool and I don't think that will/can change for PS5?

I do not think the dev kit is going out 22+ months before launch :).
 

aEku

Member
32GB is a safe bet.

I'm waiting to build my next PC build just based on what Sony or MS reveal lol
We all know they control what the next set of PC specs are likely to be so I want to wait at least a year or so.
me2.. worked good for me with ps3 and ps4

dont forget the ps4 already used the system memory for their graphic memory.

i dont see that you can fill up 16gb on pc, even on next gen.. comes maybe close but no need for 32gb..
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
yikes what kind of bloated os takes 8gb and 2 cores? I was hoping they would use secondary arm cores for the os

You do not start the generation with the smallest amount of system resources reserved for the OS (which may be implementing also functionality shared for games that games do not have to reimplement, not just OS “things”), you start greedily because you cannot anticipate how much you need and what kind of features the market will demand while still allowing PS4 BC and a clear marked next-generation improvement from launch titles, exclusives and cross generation games alike. PS4 also reserved more CPU cores and RAM at launch than it does today.

Once things are clearer then you start releasing resources back to developers.

If it is a secondary pool of much cheaper RAM it may make more sense as it does not steal precious fast RAM away from games albeit it does limit what the OS “features” can do when you are bandwidth starved compared to games.
 

Toe-Knee

Member
I still can't equate dev kits (whatever sort they are) going out to lots of TP ~22+ months before a launch in late 2020. This would be far earlier than any TP got PS4 kits and we would have many more leaks surely?

As for RAM, I can't see the OS having a completely separate pool. I believe the PS4's now have a small separate pool of DDR3 but a lot of functions still have to use the GDDR5 pool and I don't think that will/can change for PS5?
All have 512mb (I think might be 256mb) for dvr and background downloads & and game instalation along with the arm cpu.

But its only the pro that has the seperate 1gb for the higher resolution ui and app/game suspending
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
I do not think the dev kit is going out 22+ months before launch :).

If you believe a 2019 release, yes! Actually I just realised that if dev kits did go out early this year like a lot of 'leaks' claim, then it would be 33-35 months from a late/holiday 2020 launch.

This would be utterly crazy and just not possible.
 
If you believe a 2019 release, yes! Actually I just realised that if dev kits did go out early this year like a lot of 'leaks' claim, then it would be 33-35 months from a late/holiday 2020 launch.

This would be utterly crazy and just not possible.

good point. that indirectly confirms a planed oct 2019 - march 2020 launch (provided dev kits are really out in the wild). planed because things can always go south as we have seen with the ps3... but i doubt that sony's project management is comparable these days and external factors should be better.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
good point. that indirectly confirms a planed oct 2019 - march 2020 launch (provided dev kits are really out in the wild). planed because things can always go south as we have seen with the ps3... but i doubt that sony's project management is comparable these days and external factors should be better.

Also I base my opinion on the one insider I still trust. Matt. He said originally (July 2017) in reply to others that: dev kits don't go out 2.5 years before launch (this also indicated a late 2019 release as July 2017 to late 2019 is 2.5 years..)

He also gave vague indications of rough spec (not getting 32GB, not getting 15+TF, 12TF is reasonable etc) by his replies to others. If Sony have since changed to a 2020 release then IMO that is bad because it would likely mean sitting on the spec they already have for up to a year outside of a small clock bump as I doubt they would go back to the drawing board and have new more powerful APU designed and the rest of the console to go with it.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
The devkits are reaaaally early units though... so it could increase in future units... If this is true at all I think it might end up being 8GB of DDR3 or DDR4 for the system + 16 or 24GB of GDDR5X or HBM for games.
I mean thats the point of devkits. To provide a snapshot of a system in progress.

Also I base my opinion on the one insider I still trust. Matt. He said originally (July 2017) in reply to others that: dev kits don't go out 2.5 years before launch (this also indicated a late 2019 release as July 2017 to late 2019 is 2.5 years..)
For PS3 it was 1.5 years. If anything, it shows that devkit silicon is usually 1 to 1.5 years out before final silicon. Which makes sense, as devs need to have their games somewhat finished in order to be a launch game.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I mean thats the point of devkits. To provide a snapshot of a system in progress.


For PS3 it was 1.5 years. If anything, it shows that devkit silicon is usually 1 to 1.5 years out before final silicon. Which makes sense, as devs need to have their games somewhat finished in order to be a launch game.

True, but I would expect the dev kit unless it is an extra early one to have more RAM than that... the usual has always been 2x of the final system RAM and 8 GB + 16 GB would not leave a lot of extra if the dev kit only has 32 GB of RAM total, but it could be that the devkit has 32 GB of fast GDDR6 and more slow RAM to cover the OS needs of the final unit too...
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
I mean thats the point of devkits. To provide a snapshot of a system in progress.


For PS3 it was 1.5 years. If anything, it shows that devkit silicon is usually 1 to 1.5 years out before final silicon. Which makes sense, as devs need to have their games somewhat finished in order to be a launch game.

I agree about 1 to 1.5 years for the dev kit. My point is that on one hand there are leaks saying dev kits went out in early 2018 which even if PS5 is late 2019 would be too early. On the other most now are convinced PS5 will be 2020.

Nothing is adding up. Sony doing a great job keeping things under wraps and confusing things...Lets cancel E3, that will throw them!
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
True, but I would expect the dev kit unless it is an extra early one to have more RAM than that... the usual has always been 2x of the final system RAM and 8 GB + 16 GB would not leave a lot of extra if the dev kit only has 32 GB of RAM total, but it could be that the devkit has 32 GB of fast GDDR6 and more slow RAM to cover the OS needs of the final unit too...
I mean, what complicates things is the Xbox One X devkit having 24 GB of the stuff. This suggests that a true next-gen console would have 32 GB for a devkit and 16 GB for retail. But, at the same time, 24 GB devkit and 16 GB retail may also very well be true.

16 GB at minimum seems like a sure thing though, with GDDR6. Any other common available memory like GDDR5 is just too slow and anything less propels it back to Xbox One X territory. Microsoft really gave that machine a ton of RAM relative for a mid-gen refresh.

I agree about 1 to 1.5 years for the dev kit. My point is that on one hand there are leaks saying dev kits went out in early 2018 which even if PS5 is late 2019 would be too early. On the other most now are convinced PS5 will be 2020.
Why? Q1 2018 to Q4 2019 seems about in that ball park? I do expect a Q4 2019 release at earliest to Q2 2020 at latest.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Why? Q1 2018 to Q4 2019 seems about in that ball park? I do expect a Q4 2019 release at earliest to Q2 2020 at latest.

Because it would be months longer than TP got PS4 dev kits (PS4 kits went to very select devs in July 2012). With PS5 expected to be that much more iterative means they can decrease the time down to ~1 year max before release, not increase it!

This is even before contemplating PS5 coming in 2020 like most on Resetera think. A lot of confusing and contradictory stuff being 'leaked' and said and Sony are loving it!
 

SonGoku

Member
If it is a secondary pool of much cheaper RAM it may make more sense as it does not steal precious fast RAM away from games albeit it does limit what the OS “features” can do when you are bandwidth starved compared to games.
OS features don't need bandwith, a LPDDR4 (OR 5) would be more than enough
Its a shame to waste a powerful zen core (let alone 2) on system resources, a secondary arm cpu is better suited

To put things in perspective: 2 zen cores are likely more powerful than the entire jaguar cpu inside ps4
 
OS features don't need bandwith, a LPDDR4 (OR 5) would be more than enough
Its a shame to waste a powerful zen core (let alone 2) on system resources, a secondary arm cpu is better suited

To put things in perspective: 2 zen cores are likely more powerful than the entire jaguar cpu inside ps4
I agree completely. Who knows... maybe it's just 1 thread? Or 1 core? ... but if you think about it... and they want to keep the console cheaper... better to make use of an already available hardware than including another one... even if it costs $10... the less expensive it is the better... especially if you want to keep it cheaper while keeping it powerful.

Edit: hmmm LPDDR4 (or even 3 if you want to keep cost lower) would work like a charm for that purpose. That's a good idea.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
OS features don't need bandwith, a LPDDR4 (OR 5) would be more than enough

It depends, it should, but it could also be limiting in case it is not just a buffer for DVR, chat, background downloads, etc... still consoles are about giving maximum performance and resources to games, and let each developer use them as best as they see fit, not the main system OS. Still you also want to avoid premature optimisation and to over complicate your software and platform by splitting one system in several sub systems using their own resources.

To put things in perspective: 2 zen cores are likely more powerful than the entire jaguar cpu inside ps4

Which would mean, if it were true, that the other 6 cores are enough to start with and give the console a massive CPU jump over PS4. Kind of proving their point there ;).
You would then be able to free the other two cores in the future or a portion of them once it is fully clear how the OS will evolve over time and how it will meet the platform and the developers’ needs.

Similar to PS4, where the secondary SoC had its 256 MB of RAM and a separate CPU with custom extensions (Xtensa powered), I still see a secondary ARM SoC like in PS4 just beefed up to better handle background downloads, overall system security, game and OS patching, games installs, networking, sound processing, DVR, and whatever the PSVR breakout box was doing.

Using part of the main CPU resources for bigger user facing OS tasks would keep programming symple on Sony’s side, less chances for bugs, and predictable use of resources and performance obtainable.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
DDR4L :p but yeah you wouldn't want to waste your pool of GDDR6* for OS and recordings.

You would not, but you would want a browser engine always available, system wide services like chat and music, and you would want the main dashboard always loaded and full of interactive cool elements... PS4 kind of paved the way... I see Sony doing more of the same, just a lot better than they did before.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Because it would be months longer than TP got PS4 dev kits (PS4 kits went to very select devs in July 2012).
I mean, July 2012-November 2013 is almost 1.5 years, so..

With PS5 expected to be that much more iterative means they can decrease the time down to ~1 year max before release, not increase it!
It would be around the same? PS3 was an outlier nearing almost 2 years (Jan 2005-Nov 2006). What makes you think im increasing the time to release?
 

SonGoku

Member
It depends, it should, but it could also be limiting in case it is not just a buffer for DVR, chat, background downloads, etc...
All of those, even the most fully featured OS don't need much bandwidth. The amount of bandwidth LPDDR chips provide is more than enough for any combination OS task/features you can name
Still you also want to avoid premature optimization and to over complicate your software and platform by splitting one system in several sub systems using their own resources.
Can you elaborate as i don't quite understand? Another reason i read on forums is that it would make the PS5 board more complex but then again ps4 already does it...
Maybe due to smartphones demand LPDDR chips are just as expensive as GDDR
Which would mean, if it were true, that the other 6 cores are enough to start with and give the console a massive CPU jump over PS4. Kind of proving their point there ;).
Oh i agree, the biggest upgrade will be the CPU, a proper next gen jump, BUT the geek in me screams at the waste of not 1 but 2 zen cores, it just seems too wasteful
 
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THE:MILKMAN

Member
I mean, July 2012-November 2013 is almost 1.5 years, so..


It would be around the same? PS3 was an outlier nearing almost 2 years (Jan 2005-Nov 2006). What makes you think im increasing the time to release?

Let me try and make a super clear post.

PS4 dev kits went to select third party devs in ~July 2012 or 17 months before release as the change from PS3 to PS4 was big. Most devs didn't get a dev kit until the near-final kit released in ~January 2013.

With PS4 Pro just a single dev kit (before mass produced one) was made available before release after GDC 2016 <8 months before launch.

For PS5 the rumors have said many third party devs have had kits since early 2018 (January-March) and the earliest PS5 will be released is November 2019. So 20-22 months if true. Far longer then 17 months. I feel PS5 being very basically a more powerful PS4/Pro there would be no need for dev kits 1.5 years before launch and certainly not 20-22 months. ~1 year before would be fine IMO.

The above is all before factoring in that a lot of people are of the opinion that PS5 is coming in March 2020 or late 2020 further extending dev kits being out there to ridiculous levels of 30+ months.

TLDR, I think it unlikely Sony would need to send dev kits to anyone at the beginning of 2018. Late 2018/early 2019 would be more than sufficient IMO if late 2019 is the aim for launch.
 
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Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Let me try and make a super clear post.

PS4 dev kits went to select third party devs in ~July 2012 or 17 months before release as the change from PS3 to PS4 was big. Most devs didn't get a dev kit until the near-final kit released in ~January 2013.

With PS4 Pro just a single dev kit (before mass produced one) was made available before release after GDC 2016 <8 months before launch.

For PS5 the rumors have said many third party devs have had kits since early 2018 (January-March) and the earliest PS5 will be released is November 2019. So 20-22 months if true. Far longer then 17 months. I feel PS5 being very basically a more powerful PS4/Pro there would be no need for dev kits 1.5 years before launch and certainly not 20-22 months. ~1 year before would be fine IMO.
But it isnt a very powerful PS4 Pro. It is a new CPU architecture and a new GPU architecture, together with a new memory controller and what not. Xbox One X launch may have underestimated their plans for a new next gen console, leading to the longer dev kit times.

Ultimately, we are just talking rumors here. Near final silicon could be out when they announce the thing early next year. We should take these with a grain of salt, as studios recieving a dev kit does not mean the release of a dev kit is of the same date.

The above is all before factoring in that a lot of people are of the opinion that PS5 is coming in March 2020 or late 2020 further extending dev kits being out there to ridiculous levels of 30+ months.

TLDR, I think it unlikely Sony would need to send dev kits to anyone at the beginning of 2018. Late 2018/early 2019 would be more than sufficient IMO if late 2019 is the aim for launch.
I would ask these people what they are basing their assumptions upon. Ive read that OsirisBlacks posts are at best educated guesses, but nobody has yet reasoned why such a roadmap is unrealistic in nature.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
All of those, even the most fully featured OS don't need much bandwidth. The amount of bandwidth LPDDR chips provide is more than enough for any combination OS task/features you can name

It depends on how Sony engineers want to build the OS and the features they want to come at a zero cost to games if games want to use them and what features they want the system to handle at the same time as games (people did not seem to be happy about in game XMB on PS3 ;)). The way they built the PS4 home screen had a lot of dynamic features and the technology chosen for part of it, and for the PSN Store app, requires a full browser running a JavaScript + WebGL webapp... see https://siliconangle.com/2013/11/20/webgl-graphics-technology-powers-sony-playstation-4-ui/ and the comments toward the end of the article that the PS4 UI, especially on the home screen, is designed to be web developer friendly to speed up the design of pages, components like carousels, and forms and pop ups.

PS Vita, while much less powerful, ended up having an even more polished and fluid UI even though it did not have all the features PS4 launches with. PS4 UI probably allowed them to integrate with other third party or shared services using more standard (albeit less performant and much more resources hungry and complex to make them feel App/native like) components as well as to extend the UI with components generated by other teams (see WebComponents: https://www.webcomponents.org/introduction#what-are-web-components-).

So flexibility and ability to get up and running faster... with the cost of extra resources on the CPU and memory size (check out your browser resources consumption on your PC to see what kind of monsters they are hehe) and...

Can you elaborate as i don't quite understand? Another reason i read on forums is that it would make the PS5 board more complex but then again ps4 already does it...

... there is an argument about HW complexity that would push to eliminate other secondary memory pools while keeping a big.LITTLE like approach so that power hungry CPU cores are not kept awake and switching when not demanding tasks (see background downloads) are running, but in this case the argument is perhaps not to make the problem worse by adding faster and more power hungry and complex to integrate memory to offload even more OS tasks from the primary processor cores to the secondary one (which will get a likely big speed bump too, expect dual core 64 bits ARMv8 cores possibly).

Also, if you could have enough RAM and CPU power to keep it all running (beside base security, networking, and general I/O features which makes most sense to isolate... see T1 and T2 chips in MacBook and iMac computers for example) on the same OS and memory space then you would not have to keep writing for and maintaining different code based with different tools, but you could do it all with the same code and tools you wrote the main OS, the developers’ SDK, the high level libraries, and the games with. There are some advantages to unified code bases too.

Maybe due to smartphones demand LPDDR chips are just as expensive as GDDR

Not as expensive, but certainly gets the cost closer and if you could drive the console board without adding an extra sizable pool of memory

Oh i agree, the biggest upgrade will be the CPU, a proper next gen jump, BUT the geek in me screams at the waste of not 1 but 2 zen cores, it just seems too wasteful
 
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RaijinFY

Member
The devkits are reaaaally early units though... so it could increase in future units... If this is true at all I think it might end up being 8GB of DDR3 or DDR4 for the system + 16 or 24GB of GDDR5X or HBM for games.

In general, this is the reverse you will get, more like 8GB of GDDR6 and 16GB of DDR4.
 
Well... when the PS4 released that ridiculously simple OS also used to take 2 cores + 3,5GB of RAM...!

Though interestingly enough Sony used patches over the console life span to increase the amount of memory for games and reduce the OS footprint. I think it's more of a conservative decision to see just how much they need for future proof use.
 
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