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Post in here if you think Microsoft is truly hosed next round (no ray tracing crap, please)

Chiggs

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Microsoft might very well take it on the chin even harder in the next generation than they did in this one. Why?

Off the top of my head:
  • Two Xbox systems, with one that sucks, creating consumer confusion and developer disgust
  • Sony's 1st party dominance.
  • Sony buying experienced AAA developers like Insomniac, instead of "plucky" little squads like Obsidian and Ninja Theory.
  • Sony's BC looks to be the real deal...and then some if you read the tea leaves.
  • A very good chance that 343 mucks up Halo: Infinite.
  • Xbox One has irreparably damaged the brand.
  • Nintendo is back and better than ever, and can differentiate themselves from Sony in ways that Microsoft can only dream of.
  • Europe and Japan aren't interested in Xbox.
  • 11 vs 9 teraflop difference will not be as pronounced as 6 vs 4 was this time--and it's not like the PS4 Pro was a bad machine or anything.
  • The PC will get all the big Xbox games, and a PC is likely a better investment for power-crazed gamers.

I love my Xbox One X, and the Series X looks quite good, but the more I look at the dynamics this time around, the worse I think it gets for Microsoft.

Huge thanks to Don Mattrick and his horrendous regime for relegating a promising brand to the ash heap of history. Pricks.
 

CJY

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MS will lose out big-time in terms of console sales, like they have every gen (except for 360), but they aren't playing the console sales game anymore, so they probably don't care as much.

MS should focus on their domain of PCs anyway. They have more chance trying to dominate PC gaming with the Xbox brand than dominating consoles.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Define "hosed".

I think they'll lose the foothold they still have in the dedicated hardware market and will push Game Pass / Xbox streaming on multiple platforms, even competitors, but they'll rake in a ton of cash while doing so. That isn't to say they'll stop making hardware (yet) but it will be deemphasized next gen, that's for sure. People forget that Bill Gates made his original fortune when he got IBM to agree to let him sell the software on competitors' platforms (IBM was under the impression that hardware was where the profit was at).
 

Omeggos

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I mean they obviously have a steep hill to climb going into next gen but they are in a better position than they were with the xbox one. That system was nothing but a fail after fail for pre-launch marketing.

that said, i dont think they’ll win next gen but I do believe they have a chance to make huge improvements over this gen.
 

Dane

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Two Xbox systems, with one that sucks, creating consumer confusion and developer disgust : Well Sony and Microsoft made two variants
Sony's 1st party dominance: Agree it has the best quality, but most people bought it because MS shot themselves in the foot with the shitty DRM and forced Kinect that rose the price to 499. The irony was that the XBO had the best full year of exclusives and yet it didn't sell close to the PS4.
Sony buying experienced AAA developers like Insomniac, instead of "plucky" little squads like Obsidian and Ninja Theory: Depends on the company will.
Sony's BC looks to be the real deal...and then some if you read the tea leaves: No one knows exactly, and Sony was the one who started with the remaster stuff and later on sold emulated PS2 games.
A very good chance that 343 mucks up Halo: Infinite : Unfortunately.
Xbox One has irreparably damaged the brand: Playstation was always a bigger brand which helped the PS3 to not lose the previous gen by a margin, but yes, XBO tarnished the brand heavily at the time.
Nintendo is back and better than ever, and can differentiate themselves from Sony in ways that Microsoft can only dream of: Nintendo just decided to do a gimmick again, except that it went right, WiiU tablet controller was an expensive and barely useful one, sales didn't go up and third parties left quickly, not to mention that the current generation was released a year later, I think that's why they say that only nintendo fans buy nintendo consoles, because it was pretty much the case with this one, but not Switch.
Europe and Japan aren't interested in Xbox. : Agree that Microsoft has to do a better job there, sounds like they decided to usher a vendetta because they gave the first place in those markets for a more expensive and worse console at the time.
11 vs 9 teraflop difference will not be as pronounced as 6 vs 4 was this time--and it's not like the PS4 Pro was a bad machine or anything.: It's all about marketing and selling it, the PS4 Pro had such zero marketing that the Xbox One X was more hyped and sold more.
The PC will get all the big Xbox games, and a PC is likely a better investment for power-crazed gamers: If that's the case, the PS4 would have sold like 30 million units at best, most of the best selling games are multiplats, I could have easily gone without any console from this generation.
 
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SleepDoctor

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IMO MS is in a much better position going into next generation than they were last generation with all the worthless kinect crap they forced onto gamers.

Its hard to say. No kinect but no exclusives, hence no reason to buy an xbox if you have a pc. If they weren't giving away all their game to pc I'd definitely agree.

But right now they dropped one stupid gimmick for a shitty strategy imo .

A great way this would be offset imo is if they announced some kind of deal with Steam and were getting some pc exclusives if not all. But i don't see that happening.
 

Grinchy

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Game pass ultimate is currently $15/month. That's $180/year.

Even if you never buy an Xbox, and only played Xbox games through your PC for a 6 year generation, you will have given them $1080. Like every subscription-based service that has ever existed, the nanosecond they have a big audience that begins to rely on that service, they will raise the price. So it could be even more money you give them over time.

This is why they are pushing it so hard. They know that selling Xbox hardware isn't their future. They will get Xbox owners to pay up for it and PC players who normally would never have had access. So while all of that sub money isn't profit, it's how they will hit their revenue goals.
 

captainraincoat

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So many pie in the sky thoughts

  • Two Xbox systems, with one that sucks, creating consumer confusion and developer disgust -They have not announced anything,could even be the Scorpio is this model if it does exist
  • Sony's 1st party dominance -agree but they suffer from a severe case of diversity
  • Sony buying experienced AAA developers like Insomniac, instead of "plucky" little squads like Obsidian and Ninja Theory. makers of one of the best rpgs and a dev who used to make 1St party games for Sony??
  • BC looks to be the real deal...and then some if you read the tea leaves. And who led the way this gen with bc?
  • A very good chance that 343 mucks up Halo: Infinite. Another hot take...naughty dog could easily fuck up last of us
  • Xbox One has irreparably damaged the brand. X1x is the sorry letter...you release a great console at the right price with right lineup at the start people will buy...look at ps3 launch
  • Nintendo is back and better than ever, and can differentiate themselves from Sony in ways that Microsoft can only dream of. And why do you think ms is being friendly with them...gamepass/streaming is the perfect thing for the switch
  • Europe and Japan aren't interested in Xbox. Japan yes....Europe not so much.
  • 11 vs 9 teraflop difference will not be as pronounced as 6 vs 4 was this time--and it's not like the PS4 Pro was a bad machine or anything.people will move the goalposts around to whatever benefits the argument ...most of thelastword threads are this in a nutshell
  • The PC will get all the big Xbox games, and a PC is likely a better investment for power-crazed gamers.yes but ms are not focused on a single box...they are focused on a brand and service
I would be more worried about Sony fucking things up as they have really shown nothing these last few years and the inside money is on the new console being vr focused with the usual Sony software drought that all of their consoles have had at launch.

Not something you really want when your competition is ticking the boxes
 

o'dium

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Anything can happen. I honestly believe that after the fuck up they did with the One, to turn it around so much and now be going into next generation strongly, it’s a good thing.

Sony is a monster, for sure... but anything can happen.

If you had told me the next Nintendo console after the Wii U would be this damn good, I would have laughed at you. I fully expected them to be third party by now.

So yeah... anything can happen. Will be an interesting gen that’s for sure.
 

Hendrick's

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If the only metric is best selling console then they will not be 1st place. That's only one metric though, and one they certainly don't need to be at the top of in order to be successful. I also don't think they really care either. Game Pass is a growing monster and Xbox is strong.
 
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ElCasual

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Im a PSFan but I really think MS will raise and beat PS in the next gen (PS5 vs XboxSex).
Obsidian and Ninja Theory make the diference.
PS had the bad idea of close two studios in the current gen.
 

Gargus

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I think you're wrong. Anything can happen.. Look at the WiiU > Switch.....
Wiiu and switch are totally different systems while xbox has always pretty much been every new system simply "more awesomely and super sweet mountain dew dorito more POWERFUL DUDES!". That's pretty much why it peaked with the 360, then went downhill after that in terms of sales.

Xbox is pretty much the guy who always talks about how of a cock he has because he is insecure in the fact no one is satisfied by it because yeah its huge, but it doesnt get very hard.
 

Sir Vilhelm

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OP is still playing console wars when the game has already changed. It's service wars now. The home console is just one means to an end and not the only means. Live is the service to beat. Being able to play your games and your save at home, at a hotel, on a boat ECT is the game changer. We'll have to see if/how Sony will respond to this.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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OP is still playing console wars when the game has already changed. It's service wars now. The home console is just one means to an end and not the only means. Live is the service to beat. Being able to play your games and your save at home, at a hotel, on a boat ECT is the game changer. We'll have to see if/how Sony will respond to this.
Just because the megacorps push out a convincing marketing campaign to convince you the product that you used to purchase for decades is no longer the actual product you want doesn't mean the market will follow.

I swear, "hardcore" gamers are some of the most gullible consumers around.
 

Hypegaming

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All the ingredients for them to fail again are there. I hope they can surprise us all and give us a reason to own their console this time around though.
 

kretos

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Unless Sony fucks up somehow like PS3 they will dominate next gen, i know i won't be buying another Xbox console even if it's 10 times more powerful than PS5, since MS is bringing everything to pc anything i'm interested in from their studios i will get it on pc
 
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Humdinger

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Nah, MS will be in a much better position next gen. I say this as a strong Sony fan. Here are a few reasons:

1. Xbox One X has helped their reputation among the hardcore, who are the early adopters and often set the tone.

2. Here's the main reason: the 2013 cuck-up was colossal. They show no signs of repeating that. In itself, that puts them leagues ahead in this round, compared to last.

3. They have acquired a number of decent to good studios, and those studios will produce a bunch of games next gen. That may not bring them neck and neck with Sony in terms of first-party quality, but it will erase the massive deficit they had this generation. This generation was all talk and "wait for next E3." Next gen, they should actually be delivering.

4. No one liked Don Mattrick. A lot of people like Phil. He's done a good job of repairing the relationship with the Xbox fanbase and the wider audience. He's restored some of their credibility. They've still got a ways to go, but they're in a much better position now than they were for the first half of this gen, where they were basically a punching bag.
 
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Remij

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Wiiu and switch are totally different systems while xbox has always pretty much been every new system simply "more awesomely and super sweet mountain dew dorito more POWERFUL DUDES!". That's pretty much why it peaked with the 360, then went downhill after that in terms of sales.

Xbox is pretty much the guy who always talks about how of a cock he has because he is insecure in the fact no one is satisfied by it because yeah its huge, but it doesnt get very hard.
:rolleyes:
 
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Sir Vilhelm

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Just because the megacorps push out a convincing marketing campaign to convince you the product that you used to purchase for decades is no longer the actual product you want doesn't mean the market will follow.

I swear, "hardcore" gamers are some of the most gullible consumers around.
Your post has zero substance and doesn't address any of what I said. Both Sony and Microsoft are "megacorp 1980's sci fi bad guys" but Microsoft is actually delivering on the services. I used the streaming service today, it's real and I've used it. Marketing has literally nothing to do with it.

My console evolution was NES then SNES, PS, PS2, 360, XBOX X, Switch so call me what you want but I have no horse in this race
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Your post has zero substance and doesn't address any of what I said. Both Sony and Microsoft are "megacorp 1980's sci fi bad guys" but Microsoft is actually delivering on the services. I used the streaming service today, it's real and I've used it. Marketing has literally nothing to do with it.

My console evolution was NES then SNES, PS, PS2, 360, XBOX, Switch so call me what you want but I have no horse in this race
I'm referring to your parroting of marketing trick that is decades old.

"Oh, that's the old battle. It's not about compacts and sedans", say GM and Ford as Honda and Toyota completely ate their market and put classic brands like Olds, Mercury, and Pontiac out of business. "It's about SUVs and trucks now hahah the Japanese are so far behind the game they won't catch up" say GM and Ford as Honda and Toyota entered that market too.
 

Sir Vilhelm

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I'm referring to your parroting of marketing trick that is decades old.

"Oh, that's the old battle. It's not about compacts and sedans", say GM and Ford as Honda and Toyota completely ate their market and put classic brands like Olds, Mercury, and Pontiac out of business. "It's about SUVs and trucks now hahah the Japanese are so far behind the game they won't catch up" say GM and Ford as Honda and Toyota entered that market too.

Ya, again I think you're missing the point. Business always evolve and adapt to survive the constantly changing market conditions. We're on a gamer enthusiast site so it's easy to forgot these companies don't cater to us, they cater to what they think the market is and where the money is. Chevy wasn't wrong betting on the SUV market and as you know, Honda and Toyota have SUVs and trucks now. Business adaptation.

Edit: I played into your car manufacture example even though it's completely different. American steel had a huge Hill to climb dealing with increasing union and government influence.
 
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Branthrax

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I think you're wrong. Anything can happen.. Look at the WiiU > Switch.....
Nintendo already had a proven fan base and had sold 100 million consoles before. They had Japan if they released a great product and Europe if they released a great product. Xbox only has reach in North America, UK and Oceania so even if the console is lights out they have a ton of work to build the brand in the rest of the world. Then you also need to factor the amount of people leaving console behind for PC and Xbox losing out on substantial sales there as well.

Xbox 360 is absolute max peak for Microsoft and it’s still not even close to touch Sony or Nintendon at their absolute high.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Ya, again I think you're missing the point. Business always evolve and adapt to survive the constantly changing market conditions.
Truisms do not an argument make. Business also make serious mistakes and misjudge the future of the market, gambling their direction on something that doesn't pay off. This is rather common in the game industry which is still relatively young compared to other entertainment mediums. The graveyard of console manufacturers is not a lonely place.

We're on a gamer enthusiast site so it's easy to forgot these companies don't cater to us, they cater to what they think the market is and where the money is. Chevy wasn't wrong betting on the SUV market and as you know, Honda and Toyota have SUVs and trucks now. Business adaptation.
I'm not assuming they will cater to me. We are in the midst of a digital bubble. Each of the streaming services are running into tougher competition, fighting in a red-ocean market. This isn't something I'm pulling out of thin air. Netflix, chiefly, but also Hulu, to say nothing of the failed streaming upstarts. The desire for physical ownership has increased for books and for music, and it appears to be true for videogames if the increasing number of boutique indie game-printing sites is any indication.

That isn't to say that streaming will fail and will vanish, but like I mentioned in my earlier post I don't expect Microsoft to be a console manufacturer for much longer. It doesn't make sense for them. They will "win" by retreating to a different market and by boasting about different numbers.

Steaming is not a surefire win, so just because Microsoft is boasting about it doesn't mean they will win either. How's Stadia doing? Is PS Now setting the world on fire? How'd OnLive fare? Is Gaikai still around? These are ignored because the prevailing narrative in tech "journalism" is that streaming is the inevitable future and physical is hanging on for dear life. The sales don't indicate this, but hey Microsoft said it's the truth so I guess I have to keep in mind that these companies don't cater to us. 🤷‍♀️
 
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Lady Bernkastel

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"Lets speculate about what a plastic box I dont like and a plastic box will do by pulling speculations out of my ass, that are best suited to my agenda"
  • Two Xbox systems, with one that sucks, creating consumer confusion and developer disgust
Yeah because we didnt have multiple consoles last gen
  • Sony's 1st party dominance.
And what does Sony have to show for PS5 ? Microsoft has already shown two next gen projects.
  • Sony buying experienced AAA developers like Insomniac, instead of "plucky" little squads like Obsidian and Ninja Theory.
That was how Sony originally did acquisitions. They will buy small devs like Naughty Dog, Guerilla Games and Sucker Punch and then grow them to what they are today. Hellblade II is not something the original Ninja Theory could make. Microsoft didnt just buy them, they are rapidly growing under Microsoft to much bigger studios.
Every single studio that Microsoft acquired are actually really talented but didnt have the budget. Even Undead Labs is just ex-ArenaNet/Blizzard staffs.
  • Sony's BC looks to be the real deal...and then some if you read the tea leaves.
What ? Series X will be fully backwards compatible with Xbox One and all backwards compatible 360/OG Xbox games. All we know about PS5 is that it will be backwards compatible with PS4, the rest are fanboying speculation.
  • A very good chance that 343 mucks up Halo: Infinite.
Nah
  • Xbox One has irreparably damaged the brand.
  • Nintendo is back and better than ever, and can differentiate themselves from Sony in ways that Microsoft can only dream of.
So, 45 million consoles sold are a failure now ?
  • Europe and Japan aren't interested in Xbox.
And it still worked as a brand for 3 generations
  • 11 vs 9 teraflop difference will not be as pronounced as 6 vs 4 was this time--and it's not like the PS4 Pro was a bad machine or anything.
So, what ? Are buying choices now - "I will only buy a console if only its PS5 teraflops+3"
  • The PC will get all the big Xbox games, and a PC is likely a better investment for power-crazed gamers.
Of all the Xbox Store/Windows Store games, tell me how many people actually bought in the Windows Store. Console gamers and pc gamers are a different demographic. It does not matter to Microsoft where you buy there games .
 
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Remij

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Nintendo already had a proven fan base and had sold 100 million consoles before. They had Japan if they released a great product and Europe if they released a great product. Xbox only has reach in North America, UK and Oceania so even if the console is lights out they have a ton of work to build the brand in the rest of the world. Then you also need to factor the amount of people leaving console behind for PC and Xbox losing out on substantial sales there as well.

Xbox 360 is absolute max peak for Microsoft and it’s still not even close to touch Sony or Nintendon at their absolute high.
The title of the thread says "truly hosed"...

MS has work ahead of it, for sure... but no.. it's certainly not hosed. I never said it would be the best selling console this gen. What I'm saying is that a new console gen is and can be a fresh start...given a new perspective.
 
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MayauMiao

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Xbox whatever is going to be 3rd when it comes to mext gen console after Switch (2?) and PS5. I still see MS weak when it comes to software exclusives.
 

DJ12

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If they don't sell 50 million consoles I can see Phil Spencer coming to the playstation meeting for ps6 to announce a partnership with Sony or at the very least game pass for playstation with the Xbox as a console killed off by the higher ups.
 

Lady Bernkastel

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If they don't sell 50 million consoles I can see Phil Spencer coming to the playstation meeting for ps6 to announce a partnership with Sony or at the very least game pass for playstation with the Xbox as a console killed off by the higher ups.
The Xbox One is actually the most profitable Xbox and now they make 10% of Microsoft revenue. People have been saying Xbox will die since 2013. This is the same company that lost 1 billion dollar in the first Surface but kept going till it became profitable.
 

mekes

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I love all these threads regarding the upcoming consoles, but it’s just too early to even attempt seriously calling anything right now. Hopefully every company showcasing a new console this year will put their best foot forward. I skipped MS this gen but I like to think they’d be capable of a better run at it for next gen, rather than a worse.
 
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Sir Vilhelm

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For the record I completely agree with you that streaming is not the "be all" future. It's a nice addition to the product catalog but couldn't be the entire catalog.

My belief is that if Microsoft can sell the console for profit AND provide streaming services that it a win for them and for us. For example, being able to stream a game while you download locally is a huge convenience. When I go to my in-laws and having the ability to stream games I've purchased on my console is a huge convenience. But the service has to go hand in hand with the product. I don't believe MS will leave the hardware market, that's been rumored for years and I just don't see it happening.

I know it's anecdotal but everything I've seen has been going digital, books, music, television, movies so I'm not sure about people wanting physical anymore. I've been 100% digital since 2012.

The topic on this thread is if MS is hosed, and to that I say no. MS has diversified in the services providing a mechanism to play a game the way that suits your needs. That can only be a good thing for us the gullible consumers.
 

bitbydeath

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I think they’ll do better than this gen. Not necessarily in hardware sales, that may fall lower but overall with Gamepass if they keep it up it could turn a few heads.