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Post in here if you think Microsoft is truly hosed next round (no ray tracing crap, please)

Stuart360

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Sep 9, 2018
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I dont really see how anyone can look at the current situation and think they will do worse than with the XB1. I mean they wont 'win' next gen, but there will be no one at Microsoft who thinks they can outsell PS5, not Phil, no one. Of course they would never admit that pubicly, but it doesnt change the fact.
Imo Microsoft will be just looking for a successful console, and a bit of a rebound from the XB1 situation. If you offered them 70mil sales now, they would probably bite your hand off imo. Of course Sony will probably go onto sell 100+mil by the end of the gen.
I think Series X will sell in the 60-70mil range, and combine that with their PC sector, and their services, they will be in a healthy position.
 
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93xfan

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Feb 23, 2013
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Does it really? Or it is exactly proving the point? Really, if lyou look closely at the numbers, all their next-gen info/rumor/leak/speculation videos have like 200-350k views, that nothing, literally NOTHING in the greater picture of ~150 PS+XB users, let alone the whole gaming industry, which is said to be around TWO BILLIONS. The PS vs XB comparisons have even less, like 150-200k views. This very forum, which is arguably the biggest gaming community out there has laughable 140k users (from which many are just recently registered kids just to play their stupid console wars, literally tens new trolls appear every single day as of recently in all of the PS5/XBX threads). And again, not all of those 140k care that much either, many of people here are PC-only guys who aren't interested into consoles at all to begin with.
it was suggested that a power difference won’t have an impact.

I believe it certainly can. It builds hype and sways the hardcore early adopters who talk to their friends about what system they’re hyped about.

Power matters, or there’d be no PS4 Pro or Xbox One X. It doesn’t matter as much as exclusives, price, or maybe even BC, but it does matter. The key is that it has to be large enough so that people notice it, and has to be coupled with good software and feel like a value.
 
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Heinrich

Member
Nov 26, 2016
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Now factor in what I've been saying about the marketing and the plethora of SKU's with vaguely differentiated names...
Not this shit again. As if people are fucking stupid.
Again, there are two things people have to get:


XBOX ONE = last gen
XBOX SERIES = new gen

X at the end = HIGH END model of the gen
s at the end = normal model of the gen

It’s exactly the same as apple does with iPhone.

Just 11 = normale phone.
PRO = high end phone

People understood it with iPhone and they will do it with fucking CONSOLE. Xbox one is 7 fucking YEARS old, how would people think that this the NEW MODEL?? How stupid do you think people are?
 
Apr 12, 2013
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I'll post despite your title. The Xbox right now is in a good spot imo, mostly thanks to Gamepass and having the most powerful console available. I haven't been paying much attention so I don't know if we know any specs on next gen aside from rumors so far, but if the next MS console is the most powerful again and it continues to offer Gamepass, it will be in a great position.

The only things that would bring it down would be choices made by MS (like making it with a mandatory Kinect, or limiting game sharing in some manner) afaik there are no rumors of any of this type of nonsense so far this time around.

That's not to say they will sell more consoles than Sony next gen. They could very well "lose" and lose significantly. That's always a possibility. Imagine if they yet again release an inferior (compared to Sony) console at a higher price like they stupidly did last time around. I don't think they will make that mistake again but time will tell.

As far as your points, I would agree that MS has to do better with exclusives next gen. They failed hard when compared to the exclusives Sony has. As far as having 2 different systems...I see that as a good thing in the long run, though I agree it would be initially confusing for many people (along with the name itself). That in itself will never make or break it though.
 
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Clear

Member
Feb 2, 2009
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Not this shit again. As if people are fucking stupid.
Again, there are two things people have to get:


XBOX ONE = last gen
XBOX SERIES = new gen

X at the end = HIGH END model of the gen
s at the end = normal model of the gen

It’s exactly the same as apple does with iPhone.

Just 11 = normale phone.
PRO = high end phone

People understood it with iPhone and they will do it with fucking CONSOLE. Xbox one is 7 fucking YEARS old, how would people think that this the NEW MODEL?? How stupid do you think people are?

TALK TO SOMEBODY OUTSIDE THE GAMING BUBBLE.


There are good reasons why companies like Apple use simple numeric naming to differentiate products from different generations,
 

Heinrich

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Nov 26, 2016
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TALK TO SOMEBODY OUTSIDE THE GAMING BUBBLE.
these are not the people who get a $599 at launch. Also, as soon as they See the PRICE, they instantly know what medium and high end is. Seriously. People are not that stupid.
They know what a lower and higher price means.
 

Ar¢tos

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Oct 24, 2017
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these are not the people who get a $599 at launch. Also, as soon as they See the PRICE, they instantly know what medium and high end is. Seriously. People are not that stupid.
They know what a lower and higher price means.
They do?
There are X1S retailer bundles more expensive than the X1X, does that mean the X1S is better than the X1X? After all, it's MORE EXPENSIVE and I'm a dumb tech challenged dad buying my kid a console!
You obviously never worked in a electronics store... In 2 years in one I have seen a ton of dumb shit.
 
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Clear

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these are not the people who get a $599 at launch. Also, as soon as they See the PRICE, they instantly know what medium and high end is. Seriously. People are not that stupid.
They know what a lower and higher price means.
Did launching the One X significantly change Xbox's marketshare? No. It did not. Its remained substantially down on 360's peak.

Why is doing what initially amounts to the exact same thing with Series X going to do any more?

The key-point of generational change is that its when the platform holder can change perceptions of its brand. Potentially reconfiguring the entire hierarchy of the market, its what Sony did when the moved from PS3 to PS4.

Right now Xbox is not leading the market, they need to shake things up. Adding a new member to "the Xbox family" is not going to make people with only a passing interest in the brand take a second look.
 
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Warnen

morphix's brother
Sep 24, 2005
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I‘ve done a 180 this gen, started with barely touching my Xbox to now totally ignoring my PS4 pro.

With the Xbox One X being noticeably more powerful then the pro and game passes to good to be true value my PS4 hasn’t been turned on since destiny canned all the locked away content.

Started to get sick of Sony when they released they released the PS4 pro and PSVR without a hdr pass thru. They had to know people would buy both of these thing. Also the digital store front on PS4 sucks ass, can’t return broken digital games, can’t get refund on preorder (at least in the US).

If the rumors turn out to be true and Ps5 is so far behind the Xbox series X, don’t see that changing next gen. Prob just get a series X and just use my brothers PS5 for the few 1st party games I actually want to play (the spider man and uncharteds, not stuff like Bloodborne).
 

Duckhuntdog

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Would not be surprised if the long game would be to exit hardware and leverage xCloud and gamepass as a subscription service that would work on Sony and Nintendo systems.Stops the losses on hardware and opens a huge audience that they can get a monthly fee from. Of course as long as Nintendo and Sony allow such a service on their systems.
 
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quest

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Jul 17, 2004
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Would not be surprised if the long game would be to exit hardware and leverage xCloud and gamepass as a subscription service that would work on Sony and Nintendo systems.Stops the losses on hardware and opens a huge audience that they can get a monthly fee from. Of course as long as Nintendo and Sony allow such a service on their systems.
How exactly are they going to make any money doing that? After paying 30% to Nintendo and Sony that leaves 7 dollars a month. Then after paying for xcloud infrastructure costs , paying 15 studios to make games and paying others for games on gamepass that leaves nothing for profit. Gamespass model only works if they are selling hardware or make so many games they don't need to pay others like EA pass. Then like EA pass on console the revenue is peanuts at 29.99 a year.
 
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Hawking Radiation

Formerly '$MILE¥'
Dec 29, 2018
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PlayStation's install base is too big at this point and the reason MS changed strategy. They stopped reporting MAU, console hardware sales etc. yes because their business model is changing but also because it's inferior stats to the competition. Both are doing well though its just that one is doing exceptionally well.

As for getting hosed. Yeah they are already getting hosed now.

Question is by how much can they reduce the hosing come next gen?
 

Poop!

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The only thing that sinks consoles is losing third party support. As long as it has the biggest third party games it will stay alive. MS is too big to ignore. Remember Sony fell on their faces with the PS3 (only saved by Europe and Blu-ray) and Nintendo seemed "dead" after the WiiU. All companies learn from their past mistakes.
 
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Hawking Radiation

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these are not the people who get a $599 at launch. Also, as soon as they See the PRICE, they instantly know what medium and high end is. Seriously. People are not that stupid.
They know what a lower and higher price means.
Enthusiasts frequenting forums like this would know the obvious differences. The pool of enthusiast is also very small compared to the much large average Joe on the street who only cares if a console plays games regardless of what resolution or frame rate it plays at.
The average Joe couldn't care less if you sold him an Xbox One S or Xbox One X.

I dont really see how anyone can look at the current situation and think they will do worse than with the XB1. I mean they wont 'win' next gen, but there will be no one at Microsoft who thinks they can outsell PS5, not Phil, no one. Of course they would never admit that pubicly, but it doesnt change the fact.
Imo Microsoft will be just looking for a successful console, and a bit of a rebound from the XB1 situation. If you offered them 70mil sales now, they would probably bite your hand off imo. Of course Sony will probably go onto sell 100+mil by the end of the gen.
I think Series X will sell in the 60-70mil range, and combine that with their PC sector, and their services, they will be in a healthy position.
I agree with this.

No Mattrick. No TV TV TV nonsense. No Kinect nonsense. No DRM. Fuckery from Xbox One launch that caused them to lose ground on Sony after the amazing build up by the evergreen 360.
 

BusierDonkey

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Sep 21, 2018
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If they stick to making games and a place to play them, be it their console or on PC, I think they'll do just fine. Even this gen despite trailing their competition in the console space and a very rocky start, they've sold plenty of consoles and have actually put some effort back in the PC market. I don't expect them to outsell the PlayStation in the console space, the PS4 has a large audience and a dedicated fanbase in place which I doubt will just flip without a reason. I do expect Microsoft to improve on this gen, and if their studios can deliver some quality content for the platform there's no reason they shouldn't.
 

brokenduck

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Dec 20, 2018
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Note like the opposite, Push focus back on PC is the best decision as the last time MS were great is when they focus on PC and not console. If they can create their own esports brands on PC and big open world rpg titles titles that can utilize power of Advanced PCs plus modding their line up of games are far more interesting than Sony’s, all Sony does these days are cutscene focused games that are best experienced by just watching them.
 

Smoke6

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Nov 26, 2017
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Note like the opposite, Push focus back on PC is the best decision as the last time MS were great is when they focus on PC and not console. If they can create their own esports brands on PC and big open world rpg titles titles that can utilize power of Advanced PCs plus modding their line up of games are far more interesting than Sony’s, all Sony does these days are cutscene focused games that are best experienced by just watching them.
Watching, playing, and enjoying the WHOLE EXPERIENCE!!! That’s what’s gaming is all about man and it’s what attracts people to said game!

I dunno what you play, but this is why Sony is leading and MS making weird decisions like this!

You gotta enjoy the creativity and emotion these people put into these games man! It’s captivating how far we come tech and storytelling wise! It’s not always about action, I get my share of almost any and everything from SONY
 

Kev Kev

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Nov 20, 2019
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i dont understand the argument.

xbox is releasing a new console that will have better graphics, which is a good thing. as far as i know there wont be many (if any) exclusives to the console. but who fuckin cares? as long as they release game on xbox i dont care if they release on other consoles as well.

i feel like most people dont really care about any of this and all of these arguments are coming from xbox and ps fanboys

what is this weird fanboy shit towards taking sides on which console is better anyways? arent most games released multiplatform these days? this whole argument is just so weird to me.

sorry for the whining lol, i just keep seeing these threads pop up and i know gaf leans toward ps (and they should, by all accounts it seems like the better console)... in all seriousness though can someone give me an unbiased, non exaggerated summation of what the big deal is? or is it just fanboy console wars as usual?
 

brokenduck

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Dec 20, 2018
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Watching, playing, and enjoying the WHOLE EXPERIENCE!!! That’s what’s gaming is all about man and it’s what attracts people to said game!

I dunno what you play, but this is why Sony is leading and MS making weird decisions like this!

You gotta enjoy the creativity and emotion these people put into these games man! It’s captivating how far we come tech and storytelling wise! It’s not always about action, I get my share of almost any and everything from SONY
MS isback focusing on flight and AOE4, big open world rpg from obsidian again because they understand they don’t have to go Sony’s route and there are a lot of players out there that don’t enjoy games likes last of us, death stranding and want a lot more focus on players’ gameplay and choices that lead the gameworld changes. Sony’s flagship titles are the total opposite reason of why I even play games in the first place.
 

Mecha Meow

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Jan 26, 2018
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I'm not an Xbox fan but I hope they're successful just to piss Sony off just because.

I'm strictly PC and Nintendo at this point and sticking with that (like I have been doing since 2005).

I have enough shit to play with just those two.
 
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Mar 18, 2019
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i think people way over analyze this gen.

PS4 dominance this gen was mostly due to MS own fuck ups. Yes, Ps4 ended up having the better exclusives in the end but the game was over long before that.

1. both consoles launched the same year but Sony launched a month or 2 early.

That is a colossal reason as to why we had the results that we did. Thats way too close for people to buy both consoles and most people will just go ahead with the one that comes earlier

2. $100 price difference for weaker hardware

This also goes with the first one because not only is the Ps4 releasing first? it is also cheaper and more powerful

3. terrible messaging at E3

Sony was very smart to completely chsnge their gameplan after seeing the response to MS reveal

Those things right there is how we got PS4 dominance. It was a perfect storm for Sony. If Xbox One launches without thr kinect/family message, costs $399, and launches either before Ps4 or on same day then i guarantee we are looking at this gen drastically differently. Xbox would have kept riding the wave of the 360, and along with a much better first year or two would have came better exclusives later on.

Now, for this gen, it is definitely an uphill battle but if they launch with the more powerful console (ala og xbox, 360, and one x) and at the same time then they can certainly make a come back.

The Ps2 was every bit as dominant against the OG xbox as ps4 is against the XB1 but look what the 360 achieved. Quite amazing actually. So honestly, its anyones game as far as im concerned. Ill have both consoles regardless but id love to see Halo return as s console seller
 

Spaceman292

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The gaming industry and any tech/entertainment related industry is rapidly moving away from exclusives to a device/area and into ecosystems where people want to bring their library anywhere they go, so it doesn't make sense to lock your platform to a device that sit under a TV.

I feel that a lot of people on Gaf and in Gaming forums in general increasingly becoming very out of touch of the average consumer.

This isn't 2000s anymore.
You sound delusional. Do you work for Microsoft?
 
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Nikana

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Jan 26, 2016
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i think people way over analyze this gen.

PS4 dominance this gen was mostly due to MS own fuck ups. Yes, Ps4 ended up having the better exclusives in the end but the game was over long before that.

1. both consoles launched the same year but Sony launched a month or 2 early.

That is a colossal reason as to why we had the results that we did. Thats way too close for people to buy both consoles and most people will just go ahead with the one that comes earlier

2. $100 price difference for weaker hardware

This also goes with the first one because not only is the Ps4 releasing first? it is also cheaper and more powerful

3. terrible messaging at E3

Sony was very smart to completely chsnge their gameplan after seeing the response to MS reveal

Those things right there is how we got PS4 dominance. It was a perfect storm for Sony. If Xbox One launches without thr kinect/family message, costs $399, and launches either before Ps4 or on same day then i guarantee we are looking at this gen drastically differently. Xbox would have kept riding the wave of the 360, and along with a much better first year or two would have came better exclusives later on.

Now, for this gen, it is definitely an uphill battle but if they launch with the more powerful console (ala og xbox, 360, and one x) and at the same time then they can certainly make a come back.

The Ps2 was every bit as dominant against the OG xbox as ps4 is against the XB1 but look what the 360 achieved. Quite amazing actually. So honestly, its anyones game as far as im concerned. Ill have both consoles regardless but id love to see Halo return as s console seller
I can agree with a lot of this. The Word of mouth on the Xbox was some of the worst I had seen. The PS3 had a middling word of mouth around launch time but the Bone was just awful. There was so much misinformation that people simply didn't care.

The narrative that it couldn't play used games, which was completely false, combined with the higher price sunk that machine so hard it was insane. Im still surprised they sold as many as they did at launch.

Sony was smart to jump onto this train. While I am not a fan of this type of marketing from any company, it was too easy to jump on and help push the Xbox down even farther.
 
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Krappadizzle

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i think people way over analyze this gen.

PS4 dominance this gen was mostly due to MS own fuck ups.

2. $100 price difference for weaker hardware

This also goes with the first one because not only is the Ps4 releasing first? it is also cheaper and more powerful

3. terrible messaging at E3

Sony was very smart to completely chsnge their gameplan after seeing the response to MS reveal.
These two points are very true. MSFT came off as very smug and arrogant at that E3 reveal. I literally preordered the Xbone and cancelled for a PS4 in the same day as that conference. People hate being told from the mega-corp that they know better for you than you do for yourself. Coming out weaker and later AND also telling me what I should think is important was just a massive shift from what they had achieved with the 360. I'll say that they have really turned around the last few years. The few times I've actually turned on my consoles in the last year, it tends to be the One X because gamepass is very compelling and backwards compatibility is done SUPER well on the Xbone X. I think the last time I used my Pro was to play Spiderman DLC. Haven't used it since, while I've use the X many times to play Skate, or when my Pops would come over and he'd jump on my X and me on my PC so we could play Gears 5 together.
 

Nikana

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These two points are very true. MSFT came off as very smug and arrogant at that E3 reveal. I literally preordered the Xbone and cancelled for a PS4 in the same day as that conference. People hate being told from the mega-corp that they know better for you than you do for yourself. Coming out weaker and later AND also telling me what I should think is important was just a massive shift from what they had achieved with the 360. I'll say that they have really turned around the last few years. The few times I've actually turned on my consoles in the last year, it tends to be the One X because gamepass is very compelling and backwards compatibility is done SUPER well on the Xbone X. I think the last time I used my Pro was to play Spiderman DLC. Haven't used it since, while I've use the X many times to play Skate, or when my Pops would come over and he'd jump on my X and me on my PC so we could play Gears 5 together.
Watching that E3 when Sony announced $399 the same day as Microsoft announcing $499 was one of those moments I said "Oh Fuck" out loud. I am still surprised they didn't do more than roll back their digital software strategy. I figured they would of pulled the Kinect out to match Sony's price ASAP. Still surprised they didn't honestly.
 

SquillieDee

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Jun 27, 2019
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What else can we do besides make assumptions? None of us have time machines. This is a video game forum where we discuss games and the games industry. You’re acting like I’m off topic or something.

  • Two Xbox systems, with one that sucks, creating consumer confusion and developer disgust: Your wording does't really help here. "one that sucks", you have no idea if a second console even exist, let alone know how powerful the system is...
  • Sony's 1st party dominance: While Sony had very good games this generation, you have no clue what they are making next gen, they haven't announced anything...
  • Sony buying experienced AAA developers like Insomniac, instead of "plucky" little squads like Obsidian and Ninja Theory: I mean, do I even need to point out why this sounds ridiculous???...
  • Sony's BC looks to be the real deal...and then some if you read the tea leaves: There has been zero confirmation on what Sony is doing for BC, meanwhile Xbox has supported BC most of this gen and has confirmed that they will continue to...
  • A very good chance that 343 mucks up Halo: Infinite: How is there a "very good chance" that 343 "mucks up" Halo Infinite? Please don't say how they ruined Halo 5 because you probably never played it...
  • Xbox One irreparably damaged the brand: Irreparably huh? As in impossible to ever recover from.. I disagree, and in fact I would say they have already done a ton to repair the brand...
  • Nintendo is back and better than ever, and can differentiate themselves from Sony in ways that Microsoft can only dream of. This doesn't even make sense...
  • Europe and Japan aren't interested in Xbox: Europe is, Japan is not, whats new. Pretty Japan isn't that high on PS right now either...
  • 11 vs 9 teraflop difference will not be as pronounced as 6 vs 4 was this time--and it's not like the PS4 Pro was a bad machine or anything: I think you meant 12.5 vs 9 tf if your going by the rumors, and I would love to know how you know what type of difference there will be. Nobody said PS4 Pro was "bad", but it is a fact that the XB1X is more powerful and doesn't sound like a 747 taking off, ever...
  • The PC will get all the big Xbox games, and a PC is likely a better investment for power-crazed gamers: PC sure will get all the Xbox games, as they have this whole generation, and guess what??.. MS will make money off of all of those purchases and subscriptions...


Its one thing to make casual guesses and speculate about next gen, it's another to spout nonsense to make you feel secure about your brand. I suggest you do the former until you have concrete evidence about whats going on next gen...
 

Gavon West

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Jan 12, 2018
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I hope they do better, but I'm always cautious about MS.

- GamePass seems like amazing value, but in my opinion it devalues games - You don't own shit, you may or may not like the library they are pushing & there's an expiry date on the content. I know I'm in the 1% here saying this, but it's honestly how I feel. I don't want to see them go down the route of using GamePass exclusively. I think that's a horrible idea and the writing is already on the wall with big releases being day one GamePass. Talk about the DRM fiasco back in 2013....This is the exact same thing but in different clothes.
- They will drop a product fast if sales aren't smashing it. Look at the 360 or now with the Xbox One....Revealing XsEX now is pretty much typical MS. You won't hear shit from them about XB1 come E3, leaving 40 odd million users of that piece of hardware in the dust.

MS have other problems aside to my own personal opinion about the XBOX. The PlayStation brand is a fucking monster frankly and I don't see them overcoming that hurdle....All Sony's First Party content plus marketing exclusivity with FIFA, CoD and the like?.....MS have a mountain to climb. But then who knows, they may strike gold with a couple of games that's exclusive to their system and they get a decent foothold.
Um....you know you can purchase the games on GP with a discount, right?......RIGHT???

Then you say they're leaving Xbox One, Xbox One S and Xbox One X in the dust?? LOL!! Thats patently false!

Playstation was a beast this gen in sales. Thats true. But thats also due to Micrsoft fumbling the ball so early on and never fully recovering until Phil took over. Lets revisit this dumb ass post after E3 2020. See what you talkin about then, Willis!
 
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Gavon West

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Streaming is NOT going to be cheaper. Not for games. Remote processing of code had always been expensive because you are renting a computer. You should give up the fantasy that it would be cheap.

Just as renting a car had never gotten cheaper in the last decade. The car you could rent had gotten better, but the actual rent cost had not gone down. Game streaming is renting hardware, and that will never be the cheap option.
Xcloud is being added to GP for FREE..... You know that, right?.....RIGHT??
 

StormCell

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Dec 11, 2018
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I must be the only guy without an Xbox who thinks the Xbox brand is doing fine. I can't see how they would ever be hosed. They're not bleeding money. They've got fans who are dedicated to gaming on their hardware. They have the best online gaming setup. The only thing really missing are some must-have exclusives that I actually want.

The sad truth is that MS is the only game console maker who is doing it the right way IMO. Xbox owners have been able to play every generation of Xbox game the whole time, and I feel like the Xbox service is only getting better/more enticing.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Xbox owners have been able to play every generation of Xbox game the whole time*
Not to nitpick this, but there's a huge caveat involved. Yes, there are several hundred Xbox and 360 games that can be played on the X1 and will be playable on the XsX, but there is a wide gap between playing "every generation of Xbox game" and actually playing every game or nearly every game from those generations.

Launch PS3 and Wii U were the last consoles to allow actual b.c.
 

StormCell

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Not to nitpick this, but there's a huge caveat involved. Yes, there are several hundred Xbox and 360 games that can be played on the X1 and will be playable on the XsX, but there is a wide gap between playing "every generation of Xbox game" and actually playing every game or nearly every game from those generations.

Launch PS3 and Wii U were the last consoles to allow actual b.c.
I assume you own an Xbox One. I should probably just message you directly to learn more, but I presume that if you bought games (even digitally) during a previous generation that the purchase is still good/playable provided it's one of those hundreds of playable games, correct?
 

Gavon West

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Jan 12, 2018
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Ah, gotcha. Build quality. I haven't had any issues with my Pro, but I do admit the One X is the better unit. Again, it's not like I have a hard-on for MS biting the bullet; it's just they face a real steep climb in next gen.
Where the fuck do you even get a thought like this after learning everything we know about the Xbox next gen? They already had a steep climb THIS gen to correct the mistakes made in the beginning. So now youre saying after spending billions on the righting the ship, next gen is going to be harder for them?? Dah fuck?? Lol
 
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OP is still playing console wars when the game has already changed. It's service wars now. The home console is just one means to an end and not the only means. Live is the service to beat. Being able to play your games and your save at home, at a hotel, on a boat ECT is the game changer. We'll have to see if/how Sony will respond to this.
Keep telling yourself that. Sony and Nintendo making bank suggests otherwise.

If MS truly believes this, they should start putting yheir mediocre first party stuff on Playstation and getting out of hardware totally.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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I assume you own an Xbox One. I should probably just message you directly to learn more, but I presume that if you bought games (even digitally) during a previous generation that the purchase is still good/playable provided it's one of those hundreds of playable games, correct?
360, actually, and the only games that are still good are ones that've been patched by Microsoft and have a digital version available (I believe the "patch" just downloads the version from XBLA). Disc-based games that do not have a patched digital version remain unplayable.
 

Gavon West

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Jan 12, 2018
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Yeah of course, but I think a lot of people watching are just curious. I know I am, and I think new technology is absolutely fascinating even if I have no intention of buying it.

What I meant was that I genuinely don't believe having a couple of extra teraflops over the PS5 will make any difference in sales, or make the Xbox relevant again. But yeah I could be wrong obviously and it's going to be super exciting!

But that is what I believe anyway :messenger_grinning:
Bruh, its not about winning a generation because you have the most powerful box. Holding the power crown does indeed help with the overall image of the console however. You add a slew of talented developers utilizing that power and a game service like GP in the mix and suddenly you have a very successful combination. Xbox has all three.
 

Gavon West

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Jan 12, 2018
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You sound delusional. Do you work for Microsoft?
But he's right though??

In fact, you and many others on this forum seem more delusional, tbh. Like, reading this thread in particular -- holy fuck some of you guys are stuck in the past. Even OP seems a bit brain dead, judging from the title. Some of the hot takes in this thread are without question some of the least thought out, irrational, out of touch and down right cringy posts Ive read - like, ever!
 

Clear

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Wow, we are now in a dimension where we are blaming a company for being TOO available and trying to have something for everyone. What a time to be alive.
Its not how you market effectively.

It might be possible to get away with it if the brand is already dominant, but when third in a field of three... no way.

Its a mess and after some reflection and consideration I think its a position dictated by the premise that GamePass is the primary platform going forward. The rest of it basically doesn't matter to MS anymore.
 
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Fitzchiv

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Apr 24, 2018
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Thing that always gets me about the "Sony install base" is where people think that install base growth with PS4 came from? Where do they think the Xbox 360 owners disappeared to? Most of them bought a PS4! So whilst I get there'll be a group married to their digital library, I think the population who'll gravitate toward the best proposition once the dust settles and the price drops a bit are very significant. Past form doesn't guarantee future achievement, at best it's a predictor.

But just on Ms and this gen, I don't think they'll "win" the console war on hardware sales this gen. I expect Sony and Nintendo to outsell, especially with the latter being a "second console", portable and more appealing to a wider audience.

So they won't win the console war. But they may just end it. History is littered with examples of markets being segmented and broken up, and I think the console market is heading into that realm. If the hardware needed to run the games isn't exclusive, then it's about the games. Chaining your offer to a single box costing £400 feels like it's a dying concept..
 
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Chiggs

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But he's right though??

In fact, you and many others on this forum seem more delusional, tbh. Like, reading this thread in particular -- holy fuck some of you guys are stuck in the past. Even OP seems a bit brain dead, judging from the title. Some of the hot takes in this thread are without question some of the least thought out, irrational, out of touch and down right cringy posts Ive read - like, ever!
Uh oh, someone got triggered by some words on the internet. How will he handle real life? How will he handle conflict, competing ideas and those who seek to antagonize him?

I'm rooting for you!

Its one thing to make casual guesses and speculate about next gen, it's another to spout nonsense to make you feel secure about your brand.
My brand is PC, and I'm posting on one that cost around 5k. To the right of me is a PS4 Pro and an Xbox One X hooked up to an X930E. To the left, on a separate TV, an X950G, there is a Nintendo Switch, PS3, Wii U and Wii. Buried in some drawers, there is a PS Vita, 2 3DSXLs and another Nintendo Switch.

I own them all, and I will trash them all when needed.

Of course, I can take pictures for you. Seems like you may have been projecting your reality on to me, though, bud. Just saying. :)
 
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Elenchus

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Jun 27, 2018
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Truisms do not an argument make. Business also make serious mistakes and misjudge the future of the market, gambling their direction on something that doesn't pay off. This is rather common in the game industry which is still relatively young compared to other entertainment mediums. The graveyard of console manufacturers is not a lonely place.


I'm not assuming they will cater to me. We are in the midst of a digital bubble. Each of the streaming services are running into tougher competition, fighting in a red-ocean market. This isn't something I'm pulling out of thin air. Netflix, chiefly, but also Hulu, to say nothing of the failed streaming upstarts. The desire for physical ownership has increased for books and for music, and it appears to be true for videogames if the increasing number of boutique indie game-printing sites is any indication.

That isn't to say that streaming will fail and will vanish, but like I mentioned in my earlier post I don't expect Microsoft to be a console manufacturer for much longer. It doesn't make sense for them. They will "win" by retreating to a different market and by boasting about different numbers.

Steaming is not a surefire win, so just because Microsoft is boasting about it doesn't mean they will win either. How's Stadia doing? Is PS Now setting the world on fire? How'd OnLive fare? Is Gaikai still around? These are ignored because the prevailing narrative in tech "journalism" is that streaming is the inevitable future and physical is hanging on for dear life. The sales don't indicate this, but hey Microsoft said it's the truth so I guess I have to keep in mind that these companies don't cater to us. 🤷‍♀️
Physical media? You’re one of those guys. Japanese soldier who still doesn’t realize it’s over.

 
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Fitzchiv

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Nintendo would disagree. it is their entire business model, and they practically invented modern console gaming.

You know what seemed like a dying concept? Stadia.
Nintendo consoles don't cost $400. They're not playing the same game as Sony and Microsoft, and for a reason.
 

Psykodad

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Nintendo consoles don't cost $400. They're not playing the same game as Sony and Microsoft, and for a reason.
Sony has no problem at all selling $400 consoles though.
Different target audience.

So they won't win the console war. But they may just end it. History is littered with examples of markets being segmented and broken up, and I think the console market is heading into that realm. If the hardware needed to run the games isn't exclusive, then it's about the games. Chaining your offer to a single box costing £400 feels like it's a dying concept..
Apart from games being MS' biggest issue for years, the only thing they'll end is their console-production if next-gen either their entire strategy fails, or GamePass/xCloud take off.
 

Rightisright

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Dec 19, 2019
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MS will claw back the gap this gen, and here's why I think so.
1. Hardware - They have learnt the lesson from the OG One. MS has always had the most powerful system. OG Xbox blew away both PS2 and GC. 360 was a better designed system, and had the best third party versions. Last gen they got carried away with what they saw from the Wii and Kinect. They chose fads over hardcore gamers.
The One X was their sorry letter. They showed what they should have done first up.
I think MS will pull out all the stops with the XSX. PS5 won't have the same power differential as last gen. I expect the PS5 to be around 10tflops and the XSX around 12.
The One X also had DX12 baked into the GPU. This allowed DX12 games to reduce the load on the CPU by up to half. I expect this will be added again, with further DX12 additions via. DX Ray Tracing . Very few developers take full use of DX 12, and obviously all MS first parties will use it.
So all in all, expect the XSX to give developers all they need.

Games - Sony showed this gen the importance of exclusive first party titles for your system. In the 360 era MS won without needing to have the first party exclusives, and they found that timed exclusives like BioShock, Dead Space, Mass Effect etc seemed to work. Unfortunately MS took that and thought that would be the same this gen. They let their most famous first party studios in Bungle just walk away. They let Rare rot away in a basement somewhere and concentrated on stupid Kinect games. Kinect was going to be the gift that kept giving.
Well, history showed that was a massive miscalculation. In addition to Sony and Nintendo having their high quality FP games, Google has now also entered the playground, and will most likely be followed up by Amazon. Both Google and Amazon will be working to increase their exclusives as they will need to differentiate themselves in whats becoming a crowded market. The movie and TV streaming industry is ahead of the gaming industry, and there is now stupid money being thrown around to buy up exclusive rights to popular shows such and friends, Seinfeld and Big Bang. Content is king. The same will happen in the next 5 years with the gaming industry and both Google and Amazon will be throwing big money to buy out these exclusives. Either wouldn't think twice at buying EA, Ubisoft or Activision. Both MS and Sony know this is where things will head, and this is why you are seeing not only MS, but Sony buying more studios.
With MS knowing the tale of the tape they will improve out of sight their exclusive game roster. They have 343i developing the Halo series, The Coalition doing Gears, Playgroung Games bringing Fable back to life, Ninja Theory with Hellblade 2 and so on. There will be more buy outs to come, and we should see the fruits of this labour in the next two years.
In my personal opinion, MS needs the XSX to return to its roots as a shooter box, and invest in those types of games. This is a weakness in Sony's exclusives roster, and should be pushed.
We will see far more, and far better exclusives on the XSX than we did on the One.

Connectivity - Xbox Live makes Sonys online look like chopped liver. Gamespass is getting more attractive by the month, and as a leader in this Sony will continue to lack behind and follow MSs lead. Hell, Sony has had to go to MS to even get theirs going.
MS has massive server farms and data centres. Sony and Nintendo cannot ever try to compete in this area. Its just not possible. Only Google and Amazon can go head to head with MS on this, and they will.

Leadership - Without doubt the culture within MS has changed 180 degrees. From the launch of the OG One till now, MS has listened and learnt. In fact alot of people are now saying MS could hurt itself by being so customer friendly. Towards the end of this generation MS has showed up Sony in this regard, with giving Xbox One s and X owners the ability to play UHD Blurays and bringing BC to a large number of 360 games, including improvements to visual quality and frame rates.
And lets not even bother comparing Phil Spencer to Jim Ryan.

To the Xbox owners, sit back, buckle up and enjoy the ride. Its gonna be a good one.