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President Trump grabs another $3.5B from Pentagon for Border Wall

JordanN

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A few things to point out here. Texas is mostly a red state.
The same use to be said about California. But American history has quietly swept it under the table and now sees it as a permanent blue state.

Ironically, a little Mr.Reagan put this idea to the test. Back in the 1980s, he granted full amnesty to the illegals living in his state. Then once he left office, the state completely flipped and never went back to being Republican.


SLoWMoTIoN said:
Not everybody that comes over is an illegal and even then people vote for whoever has their best interests at heart.
Nope.
The failure of a multicultural society is that people vote based on ethnic or group interests.

There's never been a switch or parity.




SLoWMoTIoN said:
That has to do more with tax breaks than anything. I live in the area, I can say most of these AMERICANS with Mexican parents don't vote or care. Why should they, all these people are crooks anyway. It is usually the middle aged people and older that actually vote.
The same reason why does anyone vote. To keep the Democrats in power who want open borders and support the welfare system.
 
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Joe T.

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Would be nice for these emergency funds to go toward infrastructure in America that is needed domestically (bridges, roads, buildings) as opposed to partial portions of a wall that don't actually address immigration in the short term or long.
It's amazing to me how the facts surrounding this issue get flat out ignored every time the topic comes up. I'm going to quote Ford O'Connell from The Hill here because I agree with him 100%: "Playing asinine semantics of what constitutes a wall and claiming that physical barriers on the southern border are “ineffective” are among the most intellectually dishonest statements in recent political memory, particularly when the data suggests just the opposite."

From the same piece since these facts are still being ignored:
Of course nothing is impenetrable or foolproof, but the fencing in Yuma, Arizona, is a great example of what works. Since its construction in 2005, it has yielded better than a 90 percent drop in illegal traffic. Similar numbers have been registered at other physical barriers in San Diego, El Paso, Texas, and Tucson, Arizona, since their construction.

Even former Obama Border Patrol chief Mark Morgan, who was removed by Trump, concedes that physical barriers work and that more need to be constructed to make the southern border stronger.

Contrary to the media hype, President Trump is not advocating that one continuous wall should be built on the nearly two-thousand mile U.S. southern border, but that the current barriers be extended by a few hundred more miles. He is also asking for more immigration judges, law enforcement officers, detention beds and additional border technology, among other items — common sense stuff when it comes to stronger border security.

It's a tough pill to swallow both for Democrats and neocons because in opening the door for illegal immigrants they also opened the door for Trump.
 
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JordanN

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But that's wrong. The rich take care of the rich regardless of ethnicity. That chart pretty much proves it.
I'm not sure what you're insinuating?
It doesn't matter who the rich look after, I'm talking about what each ethnic group vote for as a whole. The rich could literally screw them over, yet only 1 group (white) is actually split or closer to 50:50.
Everyone else votes Democrat in unison and never cross party lines.


SLoWMoTIoN said:
If you actually lived here you'd know better.
I'd love to be wrong but history tells me I'm not.

People care about demographics and elections when it suits them. Even in other parts of America where you expect a "traditional" Red state to stay Red, all of a sudden, this trend gets buckled immediately, yet no one is saying "well, the problem is clearly who the rich are looking after".

 
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JordanN

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Look at the chart again. How many of those 69% dem hispanic voters are doing over 100k a year?
Asian Americans make the most wealth per capita yet there's half as many Republicans compared to whites.
In fact, there's slightly more Hispanic Conservatives than Asian ones. Does this actually imply they [Hispanics] are richer?
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

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Asian Americans make the most wealth per capita yet there's half as many Republicans compared to whites.
Can't speak for them. I don't live around Asian people. But that chart still supports my statement making Asians the exception to the rule.
 

JordanN

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Can't speak for them. I don't live around Asian people. But that chart still supports my statement making Asians the exception to the rule.
Not every white person makes 100k either yet we have examples of various poor states that still vote Republican.
Meanwhile, the inverse doesn't exist.
 

JordanN

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True.

But we still see the same patterns of ethnic voting patterns.



Even more terrifying, it's the amount of foreign born Hispanics that overwhelmingly support a gun ban. Now once again, look at my original argument about which party panders to illegals.

And also see my post above that said how did a state like Virginia quickly lose its battle for gun rights? Again, the media is happy to admit that it's demographics that quickly bucks the trend in all of this.
 
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KINGMOKU

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Would be nice for these emergency funds to go toward infrastructure in America that is needed domestically (bridges, roads, buildings) as opposed to partial portions of a wall that don't actually address immigration in the short term or long.



Democrat generally treat undocumented immigrants like people with their policies, as opposed to the general Republican view that they're an infestation to be targeted.
Stop using this absurd language.

They are here illegally, thus illegal immigrants.

"Undocumented" makes it sound like someone left their car insurance slip at home by accident.
 

JordanN

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I'm an undocumented Japanese citizen!

Even though I've never been to Japan. Nor have any ancestors from there. Nor do I even speak their language or actually contributed to their history.

But hey, if I arrive in Tokyo and step off the plane, the Japanese have to give me citizenship, as well as free food, housing and money. All paid for by the native Japanese of course.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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I know I already responded this post but I forgot something.

Democrats do not treat them like people. Democrats are happy to bring in millions of illegals who are expected to work like slaves. Because they aren't actually "citizens" there is no possible way of regulating them. Hence why they work for sub minimum wages or they might live jam packed in a house.

This is another reason I'm against illegal immigration. Not only because they shouldn't be in our countries, but they exist only as an underclass to be exploited.
For me, I'm against illegal immigration too, but more for other reasons.

If they want to work like a dog for under the table shitty money, that's on them. They are still working. At least there's some work ethic there which shows they are productive and this can rub off on their kids too.

So even though the mass supply of extra workers gimping wages is no doubt a suppressor of wages for shittier jobs, it sucks. But at least there's some contribution.

The problem I have is twofold:

1. Governments somehow magically opening up the corporate coffers giving immigrants perks and handouts. A local citizen down on their luck might also get some free shit, but not like the stories you hear about illegal immigrant X or refugee Y suddenly getting free rent or a free apartment and shit like that.

So a city will scrimp and save budget and even sometimes shut down some food banks or homeless shelter kinds of places, which locals need, but a dole out is no problem for a similarly needy person just because they came from across the border.

I guess the PR image train must continue.

2. Get in line.

Shit loads of immigrants wanting to get to another country mostly go through the time, costs and hassle of applying. It can take years. And many get shot down. Yet, someone who crosses the border, makes claim they aren't going anywhere and the government might give in and let them stay?

How about the other people applying? And especially the ones with money and skills? They have to wait or get declined? Weird.

I've known people wait 3 years to come over and they were even married to a local. The local Canadian proved they had money to sponsor them over, the spouse overseas had a clean record and it still took applications and some kind of application fee of $500 or whatever and 3 years of waiting and dicking around. In those years they had to talk on the phone and internet, and they visited each other once a year during vacation.

Yet some loser running over a border in the US can get to stay?

Get lost and get in line like everyone else.
 
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JordanN

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For me, I'm against illegal immigration too, but more for other reasons.

If they want to work like a dog for under the table shitty money, that's on them. They are still working. At least there's some work ethic there which shows they are productive and this can rub off on their kids too.

So even though the mass supply of extra workers gimping wages is no doubt a suppressor of wages for shittier jobs, it sucks. But at least there's some contribution.
Cheaper labor = cheaper quality of services.

It's essentially a race to the bottom. Why would companies want to hire professionally trained and salaried staff, when Jose is willing to do it for free and without certification?

Basically, you get disasters like seen in this video, where the landlord didn't want to pay for a better plumber. The result? A completely flooded apartment.


I know it sounds amicable that they're working but we need to set standards. If you ever watch the Simpsons and remember there where two doctors? Dr. Hibert (a professional) and Dr. Nick (total amateur)?
Dr.Nick was always treated as a joke because his services were so cheap, they were nearly lethal.

 
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Oct 26, 2018
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Cheaper labor = cheaper quality of services.

It's essentially a race to the bottom. Why would companies want to hire professionally trained and salaried staff, when Jose is willing to do it for free and without certification?

Basically, you get disasters like seen in this video, where the landlord didn't want to pay for a better plumber. The result? A completely flooded apartment.

For shitty jobs, you'll get some shitty performance.

But for those extremely low skilled people looking for any kind of work, I don't think the majority of those jobs make much of a difference.

It's going to be stuff like custodian work, restaurant jobs, maybe working at the mall and the types of jobs most people don't really care as long as service is decent.

You're not going to get many skilled blue or white collar jobs getting replaced by border hoppers.
 
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The Pleasure

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For shitty jobs, you'll get some shitty performance.

But for those extremely low skilled people looking for any kind of work, I don't think the majority of those jobs make much of a difference.

It's going to be stuff like custodian work, restaurant jobs, maybe working at the mall and the types of jobs most people don't really care as long as service is decent.

You're not going to get many skilled blue or white collar jobs getting replaced by border hoppers.
Custodial actually pays well here. The school system pays around 30k starting out and goes around 50-55k maxing out. That's decent money for someone without any education. There's a difference between someone who cleans shit and an actual true Custodian though.
 
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Trey

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Stop using this absurd language.

They are here illegally, thus illegal immigrants.

"Undocumented" makes it sound like someone left their car insurance slip at home by accident.
Nothing absurd about it. The distinction accurately describes a person who is in a country without authorized documentation in a neutral sense. Doesn't require loaded language like "illegal" or "alien," and it has the added benefit of you knowing exactly the type of person I'm referring to. You, Jordan, and Afro can be in your feelings and complain about the term all you want, but I'm not misrepresenting anything, nor do any of you have difficulty understanding me using the term.
 
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Joe T.

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Nothing absurd about it. The distinction accurately describes a person who is in a country without authorized documentation in a neutral sense. Doesn't require loaded language like "illegal" or "alien," and it has the added benefit of you knowing exactly the type of person I'm referring to. You, Jordan, and Afro can be in your feelings and complain about the term all you want, but I'm not misrepresenting anything, nor do any of you have difficulty understanding me using the term.
Democrat generally treat undocumented immigrants like people with their policies, as opposed to the general Republican view that they're an infestation to be targeted.

Chuck Schumer, June 25, 2009, during Barack "guaranteed immigration reform" Obama's first term:



"When we use phrases like undocumented workers we convey a message to the American people that their government is not serious about combating illegal immigration which the American people overwhelmingly oppose. If you don't think it's illegal you're not gonna say it. I think it is illegal and wrong and we have to change it. Above all else, the American people want their government to be serious about protecting the public, enforcing the rule of law and creating a rational system of legal immigration that will proactively fit our needs rather than reactively responding to future waves of illegal immigration."
 

KINGMOKU

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Nothing absurd about it. The distinction accurately describes a person who is in a country without authorized documentation in a neutral sense. Doesn't require loaded language like "illegal" or "alien," and it has the added benefit of you knowing exactly the type of person I'm referring to. You, Jordan, and Afro can be in your feelings and complain about the term all you want, but I'm not misrepresenting anything, nor do any of you have difficulty understanding me using the term.
You know full well language has a powerful impact on people and the term undocumented Immigrant implies something far different then illegal immigrant.

It's not about feelings(the irony here)it's about accurate descriptors beings used.

These people are here illegally.
 

JordanN

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"I don't like being called an illegal immigrant! I want to be called undocumented!"

So why are you in our countries again, if you demand special treatment?

"That is racist! Undocumented citizens have more rights than you!"

You know? It's funny how all these problems are being caused by people who shouldn't be allowed in the first place. No one cares what these people do in their own countries, yet what gives them right to steal from us and then complain when we call them out on it?
 
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oagboghi2

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Nothing absurd about it. The distinction accurately describes a person who is in a country without authorized documentation in a neutral sense. Doesn't require loaded language like "illegal" or "alien," and it has the added benefit of you knowing exactly the type of person I'm referring to. You, Jordan, and Afro can be in your feelings and complain about the term all you want, but I'm not misrepresenting anything, nor do any of you have difficulty understanding me using the term.
Neutral my ass. It's a lie becuase you are to much of a coward to deal with the fact that these people have broken our laws.
 

Woo-Fu

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Who knew Mexico did all their banking exclusively with the Pentagon? Part of his sales pitch for Maginot 2.0 was making Mexico pay for it, after all.
 
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Gargus

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What happened to stopping immigration altogether and MAGA? That is not what were promised. Unless I missed something there was nothing about a wall slowing down and maybe stopping a few dudes here and there.
The only way you'll really stop is to do 1 of 2 things.

1 you starting shooting on sight when someone crosses. Eventually being killed won't be worth trying it.

Or

2 you get everyone in line to agree an illegal alien is indeed illegal. Whenever and wherever they are found they sent packing. Illegals will keep trying to come in as long as there are places that don't want to take action against them. Everyone needs to understand illegal alien has the word illegal in it, and to understand as a country we need to only worry about our citizens both natural and ones who took the citizenship tests, and realize in order to help and protect our citizens is to remove aliens.
 

Tesseract

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Who knew Mexico did all their banking exclusively with the Pentagon? Part of his sales pitch for Maginot 2.0 was making Mexico pay for it, after all.
it's true, or the pentagon black lab bioshock teams will make it true
 
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Woo-Fu

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I don't care who pays for it. I just want to get the job done.
If by job you mean pandering to his base in a way that won't even scratch the surface of the real problem then yeah, he'll probably get it done.

Attempting to restrict supply will only increase demand. Increased demand means increased profits. Increased profits means more resources spent importing cheap labor. It's yet another War on * that the government will lose because it isn't as flexible as the opposition.

A president who wanted to solve the problem would start with seizure of assets and jail time for the people who decide to repeatedly hire illegals so they can avoid paying a living wage, avoid paying taxes, and avoid paying for benefits. Then you follow up with denial of services to anybody who can't prove citizenship. That's the stick. For a carrot you can incentivize lawful immigration.

Even then things will have to get much worse in America for it to not look like a better option for a lot of people. The grass really is greener on this side of the fence.
 
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Riven326

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If by job you mean pandering to his base in a way that won't even scratch the surface of the real problem then yeah, he'll probably get it done.

Attempting to restrict supply will only increase demand. Increased demand means increased profits. Increased profits means more resources spent importing cheap labor. It's yet another War on * that the government will lose because it isn't as flexible as the opposition.

A president who wanted to solve the problem would start with seizure of assets and jail time for the people who decide to repeatedly hire illegals so they can avoid paying a living wage, avoid paying taxes, and avoid paying for benefits. Then you follow up with denial of services to anybody who can't prove citizenship. That's the stick. For a carrot you can incentivize lawful immigration.

Even then things will have to get much worse in America for it to not look like a better option for a lot of people. The grass really is greener on this side of the fence.
Presidents just kicked the can down the road for years. It's their fault for not taking a strong stance when it was needed the most. Corruption and a demand for cheap labor for the elites are the cause of so many of our problems.

Regardless, we are the most powerful nation in the history of mankind. We put a man on the moon, but we can't build a physical barrier and deport those that are here illegally? That's bullshit. It's a lot of work, but it can be done.

What makes all of this so hard is the opposition. They want to do away with the border entirely. How on earth are we supposed to work with a party like that? I don't think we should. It's a waste of time.

I hope we get what we need in November to ram as much legislation through as fast as we can. To get as much done as we can. The left will scream and shout. But that's all they do anyway.
 
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Cleared_Hot

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what happened to rebuilding our military with more funds than ever before or whatever
We did do that. Military is doing really well (believe me i know).


Also, more wall the better. My wife spent a month on the border last summer and it WAS a crisis. The only experts are the ones working there, and they say the walls work.
 
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Stop using this absurd language.

They are here illegally, thus illegal immigrants.

"Undocumented" makes it sound like someone left their car insurance slip at home by accident.
When someone insists on presenting their argument specifically through redefined words - and the purposes for the redefinitions is to manipulate and tone-control - then they are advertising their lack of honesty in their engagement.

It's nice when people make it so obvious what they'll stoop to instead of pretending they favour logic and reason.
 
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quickwhips

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Thanks for building our wall President Trump. I find it annoying they call it his wall when it was there before he was president.
 

Croatoan

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I have a solution for the wall that would deter people from crossing and not require a fence.

Stop droning people to death over seas and just do it on the border. If Mexico gets bitchy then drone the whole country into oblivion. Honestly, nobody could stop us...

Hopefully you realize I am not serious :p We should never stop droning people to death overseas!
 
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