Pricing the Xbox Anaconda and Lockhart

CurryPanda

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  • Half the GPU power for lockhart compared to Anaconda, but both will be using the same architecture. The differences will be ram, resolution and so on.
  • Zen2 CPU for both consoles
  • Lockhart will be aimed marketing wise to 1080p( hence why it will be cheaper).
  • Anaconda is still gonna be 499 most likely.
  • Lockhart will be between 299 and 349 most likely.
  • Brad also stated that Xbox One Sales are around 50 million. Zhuge stated that Xbox One sales were around 41 million at the start of the year
I personally think Lockhart should be $299 and not $349.
 

SonGoku

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Lockart needs to be $299 or it will flop
More interested in its ram and cpu config than gpu, devs can just downgrade effects to match lower sppeced gpu but cpu and memory differences will be more complex to come by.
Should be only one console. I don't want the system held back by weaker hardware
3rd parties can develop for ps5/snek and down port to lockart assuming the ram and cpu gap is minimal.
 
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Celcius

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I would also rather see there only be one console. I'm interested if there will also be a mid-gen refresh again.
Also, if lockhart is $300 or $350 then I'm wondering when and how much of a price cut the xbox one S will get.
 
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Two consoles is stupid with one being stronger than the other. Everyone always want the stronger console, especially the hardcore. When launching no one who wants an Xbox is going to want the weaker system. Especially at the start of the generation.
 

SlashBringingHasher

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Two consoles is stupid with one being stronger than the other. Everyone always want the stronger console, especially the hardcore. When launching no one who wants an Xbox is going to want the weaker system. Especially at the start of the generation.
yeah its the dumbest thing. why even bother buying the damn console? c buy a PC.
 

jshackles

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Two consoles is stupid with one being stronger than the other. Everyone always want the stronger console, especially the hardcore. When launching no one who wants an Xbox is going to want the weaker system. Especially at the start of the generation.
Most people shopping for these won't know the difference. If the extra horsepower is just for pushing 4K - and you don't have a 4K TV - why would you spend the extra $200 on a higher end console?
 
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Mochilador

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Two consoles is stupid with one being stronger than the other. Everyone always want the stronger console, especially the hardcore. When launching no one who wants an Xbox is going to want the weaker system. Especially at the start of the generation.
Options are always welcome and some people just want the cheaper version.
We have the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro but most people prefer the standard consoles because it's enough for them.
 

SonGoku

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Most people shopping for these won't know the difference. If the extra horsepower is just for pushing 4K - and you don't have a 4K TV - why would you spend the extra $200 on a higher end console?
It could also backfire on them and create a wiiu situation
 
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HeresJohnny

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Well, there's no Kinect or VR silliness so I guess there's that. Still not going to light the world on fire with that pricing scheme and 2 skus.
 
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Options are always welcome and some people just want the cheaper version.
We have the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro but most people prefer the standard consoles because it's enough for them.
No one prefers the base console. They just bought it first, and don't feel like spending the money on the same console.
Most people shopping for these won't know the difference. If the extra horsepower is just for pushing 4K - and you don't have a 4K TV - why would you spend the extra $200 on a higher end console?
Just because you don't have it now doesn't mean you will not have it later. I haven't upgraded to 4K yet and I know I will at some point.
 

SonGoku

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We have the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro but most people prefer the standard consoles because it's enough for them.
Depends on how the market and developers reacts, devs optimize to get the most out of standard consoles. With lockart that might not be the case
If devs develop around ps5/snek and downport/downgrade to lockart there will be more pronounced differences than just resolution, Lockhart will be seen as the poor mans next gen console.

Keep in mind launch year is carried by the more hardcore audience.
 
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Mochilador

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No one prefers the base console. They just bought it first, and don't feel like spending the money on the same console.

Just because you don't have it now doesn't mean you will not have it later. I haven't upgraded to 4K yet and I know I will at some point.
That's not true. My brother and a friend of mine bought the PS4 Slim recently. They didn't care about the extra power, they wanted the cheaper experience. It was enough for them.
For casual players the base consoles are the way to go.
 
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Ceadeus

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Does anyone else believe that Microsoft will announce an additionnal Cloud service to add to the power of the base console, for a monthly fee?

Like base console is 14TFlop but you can add Cloud subscription for 10$ a month.. So it make for instant loading time, more power etc..
 

Stuart360

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It could also backfire on them and create a wiiu situation
Apart from the usual tirsome console warz angle that a lot of you constantly do, how can giving consumers more choice be a bad thing?. Assuming all the rumours are true, both consoles are basically the same console with the same games at the same graphical settings, the only difference is that you can buy a cheaper version in you have a 1080p TV, and a 4k version for people with 4ktv's. Believe it or not but there are still a lot of people out there with 1080p tv's, in fact i'd bet anything that 1080p tv's still outnumber people with 4ktv's.
What Microsoft is doing is catering to both groups, and avoiding the 'i'm not paying that much for that, i dont even have a 4ktv' argument.
 

Stuart360

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Does anyone else believe that Microsoft will announce an additionnal Cloud service to add to the power of the base console, for a monthly fee?

Like base console is 14TFlop but you can add Cloud subscription for 10$ a month.. So it make for instant loading time, more power etc..
Now THAT is something that WOULD split the usebase.
No i cant se that.
 
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SonGoku

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Apart from the usual tirsome console warz angle that a lot of you constantly do, how can giving consumers more choice be a bad thing?. Assuming all the rumours are true, both consoles are basically the same console with the same games at the same graphical settings, the only difference is that you can buy a cheaper version in you have a 1080p TV, and a 4k version for people with 4ktv's. Believe it or not but there are still a lot of people out there with 1080p tv's, in fact i'd bet anything that 1080p tv's still outnumber people with 4ktv's.
What Microsoft is doing is catering to both groups, and avoiding the 'i'm not paying that much for that, i dont even have a 4ktv' argument.
The messaging its crucial, two bad things could happen:
  • Lockhart seen as inferior next gen console
  • Lockhart cannibalizing snek sales because customers think its just a different sku
Need to see lockart specs first before we can be sure it will run at same graphics settings without compromise.
 
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Jigsaah

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GOD E3 can't come soon enough. We will be able to stop it with these speculation threads....

Well...if they actually release the price at E3....

Oh man...they aren't going to reveal the price next month, are they?
 

Stuart360

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The messaging its crucial, two bad things could happen:
  • Lockhart seen as inferior next gen console
  • Lockhart cannibalizing snek sales because customers think its just a different sku
Need to see lockart specs first before we can be sure it will run at same graphics settings without compromise.
The message is simple, ' Here is our new Xbox console, 4k ready, and super powerful. Oh but you have a 1080p tv and dont plan on upgrading any time soon?, dont worry, we have a cheaper model of the same console that plays the same games but is designed for 1080p tv users'.
Simple.
 
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All 3 consoles sold over 1 million for the first time in November 2018 NPD and people allegedly don't want the base units...?

A lot of concern over "Lockhart" "holding back" next-gen games, when the ~140 million PS4/XO that have been sold will be the temptation to design games around. Like Division 2, it will run on X1S, but also push a Vega 64 to 4K/30fps with max settings. That's still a game designed for the Jag CPUs in current gen consoles. Would be a bummer to see 2-3yrs of games all built for cross-gen support, instead of pushing CPU usage with better AI and more on-screen npcs and bigger crowds.

Anyway, $349 is too much, imo. I'll wait for $299, which will come sooner rather than later.
 
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SlashBringingHasher

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PC games aren't cheaper than console games anymore, those days have gone unfortunately (PC gamer).
yes they are. you can get most pc gmes 10 bucks cheaper at minimum at launch and indies are usually cheaper much faster

not to mention twitch hands out free games if you own prime. humble bundle is best on pc and hands out free games. steam has free games. egs has free games. GOG has free games
 

SonGoku

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The message is simple, ' Here is our new Xbox console, 4k ready, and super powerful. Oh but you have a 1080p tv and dont plan on upgrading any time soon?, dont worry, we have a cheaper model of the same console that plays the same games but is designed for 1080p tv users'.
Simple.
For that to be successful it needs to run same settings.
With half the ram and different cpu that won't be the case, also keep in mind devs won't optimize to get the most out of lockart like they do with ps4/xboneS. They will just downport
 
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Stuart360

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For that to be successful it needs to run same settings.
With half the ram and different cpu that won't be the case, also keep in mind devs won't optimize to get the most out of lockart like they do with ps4/xboneS. They will just downport
It will be the case. You need a lot more Vram to run 4k games over 1080p, ask any PC gamer. And downporting is all they will ned to do, thats kind of the point, same games, same setting, except one console runs those games at 4k, the other runs them at 1080p.
 

Omeggos

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yes they are. you can get most pc gmes 10 bucks cheaper at minimum at launch and indies are usually cheaper much faster

not to mention twitch hands out free games if you own prime. humble bundle is best on pc and hands out free games. steam has free games. egs has free games. GOG has free games
Not to mention pc is usually more open to alphas and betas without preorder nonsense.
 

thelastword

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So Brad, if Lockhart is half the GPU spec of the Anaconda, this means that the 4TF rumors we've been hearing about Lockhart, pegs Anaconda at around 8TF?

im thinking anaconda is going for 599 and lockhart 399. it will still sell like hot cakes.
There's no way MS is selling a 1080p console in 2020 for $399.......That console gen for MS will die quicker than when PS2 executed dreamcast......
 

TeamGhobad

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There's no way MS is selling a 1080p console in 2020 for $399.......That console gen for MS will die quicker than when PS2 executed dreamcast......
its 1080p with rt and super fast ssd

So Brad, if Lockhart is half the GPU spec of the Anaconda, this means that the 4TF rumors we've been hearing about Lockhart, pegs Anaconda at around 8TF?
he also said they would use zen+ hes not reliable
 
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Stuart360

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So Brad, if Lockhart is half the GPU spec of the Anaconda, this means that the 4TF rumors we've been hearing about Lockhart, pegs Anaconda at around 8TF?


There's no way MS is selling a 1080p console in 2020 for $399.......That console gen for MS will die quicker than when PS2 executed dreamcast......
It wont be cheaper than $350 imo. They are about to launch a diskless XB1 at $250 6 years into the gen.
 
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SonGoku

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It will be the case. You need a lot more Vram to run 4k games over 1080p, ask any PC gamer. And downporting is all they will ned to do, thats kind of the point, same games, same setting, except one console runs those games at 4k, the other runs them at 1080p.
You don't need double the memory or vram to run at 4k, this can be verified by looking at pc games and xbonex.
By downport i mean make sacrifices and downgrades besides resolution.
A 1080p console in 2020 for $350-$400 would be a laughable joke. Come on.

And if it is 4TF, then you are not getting RT at 1080p, at all.
Yep this is the kind of messaging that would break xbox
 
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Stuart360

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You don't need double the memory or vram to run at 4k, this can be verified by looking at pc games and xbonex.
By downport i mean make sacrifices and downgrades besides resolution
What sacrifices?, if anything the 1080p console will be slightly more capable than the 4k console, assuming the 4tf and 12tf numbers are true as you need 3-4 times the gpu power to run a 1080p game at 4k.
You dont need double the vram true, but i have a 6gb 980ti, and if i go from 1080p to 4k, it usually adds 1.5-2gb of vram on top, plus system ram always goes up a bit too. Also we have no proof about ram amounts yet ayway.
 

SonGoku

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What sacrifices?, if anything the 1080p console will be slightly more capable than the 4k console, assuming the 4tf and 12tf numbers are true as you need 3-4 times the gpu power to run a 1080p game at 4k.
You dont need double the vram true, but i have a 6gb 980ti, and if i go from 1080p to 4k, it usually adds 1.5-2gb of vram on top, plus system ram always goes up a bit too. Also we have no proof about ram amounts yet ayway.
That's what im saying man we need specs to be sure either way. If the ram gap its just a few GBs that's fine but half the ram is too much of a gap. CPU is crucial too
Game development is complex some techniques and effects might not downscale linearly with resolution, GI for example or Raytracing, Lockhart might be too weak to be on graphical parity and feature advanced effects present on ps5/snek such as rt or the same fidelity of gi.

If devs use ps5/snek as base hw and optimize games around that hardware a simple downport won't be enough to maintain graphical fidelity unless lockart has processing power to spare at 1080p (brute force) since devs won't optimize for lockart. That is the big difference between this gen and next gen.
 

Stuart360

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That's what im saying man we need specs to be sure either way. If the ram gap its just a few GBs that's fine but half the ram is too much of a gap. CPU is crucial too
Game development is complex some techniques and effects might not downscale linearly with resolution, GI for example or Raytracing, Lockhart might be too weak to be on graphical parity and feature advanced effects present on ps5/snek such as rt or the same fidelity of gi.

If devs use ps5/snek as base hw and optimize games around that hardware a simple downport won't be enough to maintain graphical fidelity unless lockart has processing power to spare at 1080p (brute force) since devs won't optimize for lockart. That is the big difference between this gen and next gen.
Look its going to be a lot easier for devs than it is at the minute with XB1/X and PS4.Pro.
 

Barakov

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GOD E3 can't come soon enough. We will be able to stop it with these speculation threads....

Well...if they actually release the price at E3....

Oh man...they aren't going to reveal the price next month, are they?
Not going happen. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't release the specs either. It feels like this specs speculation gravy train is going to keep truckin' for the rest of 2019. It's only after everybody has lost their goddamn minds and are in a mental asylum will they finally release the specs.
 

SonGoku

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Look its going to be a lot easier for devs than it is at the minute with XB1/X and PS4.Pro.
I think MS should copy PS4pro design and make Snek essentially 2xlockarts GPU, maintain amount about of memory (under 6GB gap) and close if not identical CPU clocks.
That way they can just brute force on lockart and have the added benefit of identical hw benefiting from hw optimizations

Keep in mind devs won't bother optimizing for lockart like they do with ps4/xboneS
 
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Lone Wolf

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Lockart needs to be $299 or it will flop
More interested in its ram and cpu config than gpu, devs can just downgrade effects to match lower sppeced gpu but cpu and memory differences will be more complex to come by.

3rd parties can develop for ps5/snek and down port to lockart assuming the ram and cpu gap is minimal.
Can we call the Anaconda model the Xbox snek from now on? This would please me.
 
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  • Half the GPU power for lockhart compared to Anaconda, but both will be using the same architecture. The differences will be ram, resolution and so on.
This right here is a tragedy, meaning the baseline for next gen will have half the gpu power of what it could have had, if it indeed comes to fruition. I pray it's not true or I'll hate ms forever and will never forgive them.

Devs will have to make sure all next gen games runs on this weak gpu that is in 'lockhart' greatly limiting devs vision and freedom.
 
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Two model strategy rumour has been going on for a year. Would be funny if MS just released one system.
 

Leonidas

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$349 could work for Lockheart if PS5/Anaconda is $499. Might even be able to get away with $399 depending on specs and pricing of the other consoles...

Lockheart should do very well if it's $100-$150 cheaper than the other next-gen consoles. It's the next-gen machine I'm most excited about.
 
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CurryPanda

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In regards to 1080p vs 4k. Interesting analysis from last year from the steam survey.

Valve Software’s latest hardware and software survey for July 2018 reveals that 63.72 percent of Steam’s registered members still play games with a 1,920 x 1,080 resolution (aka Full HD). Even more, 13.33 percent of Steam’s gamers play at 1,366 x 768 (HD) while only 1.14 percent are playing at 3,840 x 2,160 (4K). Only 3.12 percent play at 2,560 x 1,440 (QHD).

Although hardware manufacturers and game developers are pushing for 4K gameplay, the numbers show that a large portion of PC gamers haven’t made the move. Even more, 12.50 percent of Steam’s customers rely on the GeForce GTX 1060 graphics card followed by 9.59 percent with the GTX 1050 Ti. Surprisingly, only 2.23 percent have the GTX 1080 installed.
 

juliotendo

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  • Half the GPU power for lockhart compared to Anaconda, but both will be using the same architecture. The differences will be ram, resolution and so on.
  • Zen2 CPU for both consoles
  • Lockhart will be aimed marketing wise to 1080p( hence why it will be cheaper).
  • Anaconda is still gonna be 499 most likely.
  • Lockhart will be between 299 and 349 most likely.
  • Brad also stated that Xbox One Sales are around 50 million. Zhuge stated that Xbox One sales were around 41 million at the start of the year
I personally think Lockhart should be $299 and not $349.
All reasonable assumptions. I would imagine both the new Xbox and PlayStation will be similar in price.

It looks like Sony however will only have 1 SKU at launch — hence why they put an emphasis on remaining a “premium gaming brand” and Microsoft will have 2 SKUS — one HD (Lockhart) and the other 4K (Anaconda).

What I see happening:

PlayStation 5:

- 1 SKU Only $499.99 USD

XBOX Next Gen:

- HD Lockhart $399.99 USD
- 4K Anaconda $499.99 USD

Anything higher than $500 is dangerous territory and most consumers will be put off. Gaming consoles don’t command the same type of consumer attraction that they did back in 2006 when Sony launched PS3 at $599.

Anything higher than $500 is DOA.

It’s also very possible Microsoft can pull a fast one on Sony and launch the Lockhart model at a lower than expected price point of around $300.

I think Microsoft’s long term goal is obviously game pass and a powerful next gen console at current console price would be a market shaking event.

Microsoft can afford to do this kind of stuff — I don’t think PlayStation can.
 
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