Privileged By Kyle Korver - Jazz's Korver reflects on racism, white privilege

Nobody_Important

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Utah Jazz guard Kyle Korver, in a first-person piece published Monday on The Players' Tribune, reflected on race relations in America and pondered his position as a white man playing in the NBA. In the piece titled "Privileged," Korver touched on a variety of race-related topics and shared his own experiences, citing a 2015 arrest of a teammate and a racial incident last month involving Thunder star Russell Westbrook and a fan in Utah.

"There's an elephant in the room that I've been thinking about a lot over these last few weeks," Korver wrote. "It's the fact that, demographically, if we're being honest: I have more in common with the fans in the crowd at your average NBA game than I have with the players on the court."

Korver mentioned his "privilege" on multiple occasions in the piece, writing that, as a white man, he has the option to engage or disengage in the fight against racism.

"What I'm realizing is, no matter how passionately I commit to being an ally, and no matter how unwavering my support is for NBA and WNBA players of color ... I'm still in this conversation from the privileged perspective of opting in to it," he wrote. "Which of course means that on the flip side, I could just as easily opt out of it. Every day, I'm given that choice -- I'm granted that privilege -- based on the color of my skin."

Korver, 38, is about to complete his 16th season in the NBA. He was a member of the Atlanta Hawks in 2015 when teammate Thabo Sefolosha was arrested in New York for allegedly interfering with a crime scene.

Sefolosha suffered season-ending leg injuries during his arrest and, later that year, was found not guilty on all three misdemeanor charges stemming from the incident.

Korver wrote that he was "embarrassed" by his initial reaction in 2015 to learning about Sefolosha's arrest, saying that his "first thought was: 'What was Thabo doing out at a club on a back-to-back?'"

"Before I knew the full story, and before I'd even had the chance to talk to Thabo ... I sort of blamed Thabo," Korver wrote.

Korver also recounted his role in the Jazz's team discussion about the March 11 incident at Vivint Smart Home Arena in Salt Lake City, where Westbrook shouted, "I'll f--- you up" to Jazz fan Shane Keisel in response to Keisel telling him, "Get on your knees like you're used to."

Westbrook, who considered the comment "completely disrespectful" and "racial," was fined $25,000 by the NBA. Keisel was permanently banned from the arena.

Korver said the "incident struck a nerve with our team," prompting a closed-door meeting the next day with Jazz president Steve Starks.

"This wasn't the first time they'd taken part in conversations about race in their NBA careers, and it wasn't the first time they'd had to address the hateful actions of others," Korver wrote. "And one big thing that got brought up a lot in the meeting was how incidents like this -- they weren't only about the people directly involved. This wasn't only about Russ and some heckler. It was about more than that.

"It was about what it means just to exist right now -- as a person of color in a mostly white space. It was about racism in America." Korver also discussed his own feelings of guilt and responsibility and listed several ways that he, as a white player in the NBA, can help deal with forms of racism. "I know that, as a white man, I have to hold my fellow white men accountable," Korver wrote. "We all have to hold each other accountable. And we all have to be accountable -- period. Not just for our own actions, but also for the ways that our inaction can create a 'safe' space for toxic behavior."
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26471707/jazz-korver-reflects-racism-white-privilege


Link to Korver's full article
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/kyle-korver-utah-jazz-nba


Reactions from individuals close to the industry





I didn't see a thread about this (unless I missed something) and I know that alot of people here will disagree with this for obvious reasons, but I felt this was something worth putting a spotlight on because this had to take a lot of courage for Korver to openly talk about without anyone asking him to. I will post more reactions from prominent individuals in the industry as the thread goes on. I just didn't wanna spam Twitter links in the OP if I could help it.
 
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Cunth

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I got a bingo reading that. Especially love the last line:

Time for me to shut up and listen.
There seems to be an epidemic of white guilt in the states. And this guys got the sickness bad
 

Nobody_Important

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More reactions to his statement






I'm happy to see his piece got the overwhelmingly positive response that it has from people in the industry. When I first read it I was afraid the reactions would be mixed.
 
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FullTilt18

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I'm happy to see his piece got the overwhelmingly positive response that it has from people in the industry. When I first read it I was afraid the reactions would be mixed.
What if black people took responsibility for their own actions? Raise your kid, Tyrone. Finish high school, Tyrone. Don't commit rape or murder, Tyrone. Nah, let's blame whitey because you're too uncivilized to act human. That you're happy that these racists aren't being labeled as such shows what kind of fucking scum you are.
 
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MDS

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Sheds a single tear for the suffering millionaires who cant even commit crimes without getting a minor slap on the wrist
 

DunDunDunpachi

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It's a nice display of penitence for The Cult of IdPol, but ultimately this poor soul is a misguided idiot, especially when he closes with this:

"I know that, as a white man, I have to hold my fellow white men accountable," Korver wrote. "We all have to hold each other accountable.

"And we all have to be accountable -- period. Not just for our own actions, but also for the ways that our inaction can create a 'safe' space for toxic behavior."
A non-consenting member of [group] does not need to be held responsible for the actions of other non-consenting members of that group, nor do they have to hold one another responsible.

Shared responsibility and shared guilt are certainly a part of voluntary groups -- religions, companies, social clubs, etc -- but I do not agree with the ideology of shared guilt/responsibility by skincolor or heritage. This is why we have laws in the USA that restrict discrimination based on sex, skincolor, age, and even some mutable characteristics like religion and physical disability.

IdPol can continue preaching its Original Sin of "we all have to be held accountable", but I reject it. It's a stupid ideology being used to exert power and malice on political/ideological opponents.
 

MDS

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To be less sarcastic: if the word "privileged" means anything beyond a buzzword then the black players are an order of magnitude more privileged then the white fans
 
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Cucked SoyBoy

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LOL...Look at LeBron and other black players giving their new pet his pats on the head.

"Who's a good boy? You're a good boy, yes you are!"
 

FullTilt18

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White liberals are the only subgroup to dislike their own race. I'll say that again. White liberals hate their own skin.


And Lebron James is a piece of shit no different than Jussie Smollett. Remember when we faked a hate crime? MUH RACIST GRAFFITI!
 
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Nobody_Important

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What if black people took responsibility for their own actions? Raise your kid, Tyrone. Finish high school, Tyrone. Don't commit rape or murder, Tyrone. Nah, let's blame whitey because you're too uncivilized to act human. That you're happy that these racists aren't being labeled as such shows what kind of fucking scum you are.
This might be one of the more blatantly racist posts I have seen since I joined Gaf.

EDIT: Mods took care of it.
 
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RokkanStoned

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White NBA player? Would seem like the opposite of privilege to me. What's the representation of "race" in the NBA relative to their representation in the population? Saying you're sorry and that you're more like the people in the crowd really tells a new level of guilt and prostration.

Read it all and it was a pretty emotional piece, but ultimately cringey and not very substantive. Same short anecdotes could be used by any racist against experiences in their daily life, to justify their feelings of unfairness and their preconceptions. So put it bluntly, no you don't have a responsibility for what your forefathers did. The consequences of such a principle would end up having everyone attack each other, because likely all our forefathers have done a wrong and be done wrong.
He's also being highly fallacious in regards to his use of the one incident he refers to, as well as having very little grounds in regards to the other one. All in all, just feels like prostration than an attempt at tackling a difficult subject.

Good to see you post threads, even though this article was pretty terrible in my opinion.
 

Boss Mog

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I couldn't read more than a few lines of his garbage.

I'll just leave this here:
 

Dunki

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In the end it is alwys easier to blame others for their situation. Guess Black people want to be special and not treated like everyone esle. this is also why more and more leftist actually try to separate black and white people more and more.
 

Boss Mog

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In the end it is alwys easier to blame others for their situation. Guess Black people want to be special and not treated like everyone esle. this is also why more and more leftist actually try to separate black and white people more and more.
It's more the white extreme leftists like the OP want to treat them differently and separate them. There's a lot of black people in America that have common sense and disagree with this bullshit like in the video I posted earlier.

It's hilarious (and sad) that people like the OP have so much in common with the KKK:
 
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FullTilt18

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This might be one of the more blatantly racist posts I have seen since I joined Gaf.

@Keylime @DGrayson @Bill O'Rights (sorry for the @'s I still can't report posts and I just wanna get some mod eyes on this)
Are you honestly this fucking stupid, dipshit? You're celebrating racism directed at whites. You better hope we never cross paths, because I will hurt your bitch ass.

but I felt this was something worth putting a spotlight on because this had to take a lot of courage
In a league that is more than 70% black, shitting on whitey isn't brave. It's race traitor coward shit. Being brave would've been telling Tyrone to start acting civilized.
 
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Nobody_Important

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Are you honestly this fucking stupid, dipshit? You're celebrating racism directed at whites. You better hope we never cross paths, because I will hurt your bitch ass.



In a league that is more than 70% black, shitting on whitey isn't brave. It's race traitor coward shit. Being brave would've been telling Tyrone to start acting civilized.
EDIT: Mods took care of it.
 
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DeafTourette

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What if black people took responsibility for their own actions? Raise your kid, Tyrone. Finish high school, Tyrone. Don't commit rape or murder, Tyrone. Nah, let's blame whitey because you're too uncivilized to act human. That you're happy that these racists aren't being labeled as such shows what kind of fucking scum you are.
You racist jerk! Black people by and large take responsibility for everything we do, our kids do and more!

You have no idea what black people do! You are content to look down at us and judge us from your racist echo chamber.

Uncivilized?! Really?! And I didn't forget what you said in that other thread about black people... You hate us so much, go join a racist message board!
 

diablos991

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White liberals are the only subgroup to dislike their own race. I'll say that again. White liberals hate their own skin.


And Lebron James is a piece of shit no different than Jussie Smollett. Remember when we faked a hate crime? MUH RACIST GRAFFITI!
That’s incredibly sad.
There is absolutely zero reason to hate your own race.

Nobody is responsible for the sins of their forefathers and everybody is responsible to be the best selves they can be. Take that responsibility and push forward.
 

JareBear

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I’m a white liberal and I don’t get hate anyone or any group based solely on skin color, whatsoever, at all.

Some interesting quotes from the piece Kyle wrote, I especially took notice of his recounting the incident with former teaammate being wrongfully arrested and suffering season ending injury during the exchange. I remember reading about that and seeing the security cam footage

This quote as well,

"What I'm realizing is, no matter how passionately I commit to being an ally, and no matter how unwavering my support is for NBA and WNBA players of color ... I'm still in this conversation from the privileged perspective of opting in to it," he wrote. "Which of course means that on the flip side, I could just as easily opt out of it. Every day, I'm given that choice -- I'm granted that privilege -- based on the color of my skin."
The concept of “opting in or out” is something I don’t really think about often, as a white man (or cuckboy, whatever), but I think he’s right.

The recent incident at the Jazz arena with the “get on your knees like you’re used to!” guy, was that a racist comment or was he implying Westbrook sucks dicks?
 
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dolabla

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It's more the white extreme leftists like the OP want to treat them differently and separate them. There's a lot of black people in America that have common sense and disagree with this bullshit like in the video I posted earlier.

It's hilarious (and sad) that people like the OP have so much in common with the KKK:
Separate.................but equal. Regressives taking us back in time.
 

Cucked SoyBoy

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shitting on whitey isn't brave.

Precisely. It doesn't take bravery to do something that is going to result in widespread approval. (of course the black players are laughing their asses off behind his back at how pathetic he is, but for now he's getting pats on the head for being a good little bitch).
 

JareBear

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I don't care where (just far)
What if black people took responsibility for their own actions? Raise your kid, Tyrone. Finish high school, Tyrone. Don't commit rape or murder, Tyrone. Nah, let's blame whitey because you're too uncivilized to act human. That you're happy that these racists aren't being labeled as such shows what kind of fucking scum you are.
Is this real? Holy shit, dude
 
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Nobody_Important

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Precisely. It doesn't take bravery to do something that is going to result in widespread approval. (of course the black players are laughing their asses off behind his back at how pathetic he is, but for now he's getting pats on the head for being a good little bitch).
You have any actual tangible proof to back up what you have in parentheses? Or are you just making shit up so you can sound edgy?


I'm betting on the second option I think.
 

JareBear

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Are you honestly this fucking stupid, dipshit? You're celebrating racism directed at whites. You better hope we never cross paths, because I will hurt your bitch ass.
I’m sorry you’re so angry.

Also, I didn’t read anything Kyle wrote as racist toward anyone. He’s comparing his experience vs direct examples from close teammates.
 

DeafTourette

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It's a nice display of penitence for The Cult of IdPol, but ultimately this poor soul is a misguided idiot, especially when he closes with this:



A non-consenting member of [group] does not need to be held responsible for the actions of other non-consenting members of that group, nor do they have to hold one another responsible.

Shared responsibility and shared guilt are certainly a part of voluntary groups -- religions, companies, social clubs, etc -- but I do not agree with the ideology of shared guilt/responsibility by skincolor or heritage. This is why we have laws in the USA that restrict discrimination based on sex, skincolor, age, and even some mutable characteristics like religion and physical disability.

IdPol can continue preaching its Original Sin of "we all have to be held accountable", but I reject it. It's a stupid ideology being used to exert power and malice on political/ideological opponents.
Not exactly the same BUT...

In the black community, responsible men hold each other accountable for their actions... We hold each other accountable because we want to further our community and get our young men to do better so that, then, the NEXT generation has a leg up and so on and so on.

Also, we live in an increasingly racially diverse country. Why is this article offensive to you or other posters here? I mean, I can sort of understand you don't like being lectured to... Most adults don't. But I don't think that's what is going on in that article. I think it's one man sharing his experience and learning about racism through the prism of being with teammates day in and out and seeing their experiences and empathizing with them instead of saying "fake news" or "not a big deal".
 

DeafTourette

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Precisely. It doesn't take bravery to do something that is going to result in widespread approval. (of course the black players are laughing their asses off behind his back at how pathetic he is, but for now he's getting pats on the head for being a good little bitch).
He's pathetic for empathizing with his teammates? Really?

And how would you know what his black teammates are doing? You keep talking about what black people do as if you ARE black and know what's in all our minds. You DON'T!
 

Cucked SoyBoy

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He can believe racism against black people exists, but once he turned on his own people to get Twitter likes, yes he's a traitor and a coward.

Blacks will never really accept him because he's not one of them, plus he's also cut ties with his own people. In the end, he will have no one left to defend him.
 
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Telling people that they can't be expected to follow the laws and customs of a Liberal Western society based on their ethnicity is the exact same argument the social conservatives used in the 90's to bar homosexuals from locker rooms.

This white male savior complex that liberals have is perhaps the most insulting thing they do. Nothing is ever anybody's fault when they fuck something up, it's all some nebulous bullshit designed to excuse failure. I can't think of anything more offensive to a racial minority or a woman than, "It's ok, you couldn't have possibly succeded at this in the first place."

I'd rather hang out with the 'Nazis' who will immediately call me out on my bullshit, even if I do have to put up with the occasional asshole calling me a faggot to my face.
 

Bolivar687

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The industry approval sends the message to young boys that you will be rewarded for emasculating yourself.
 

JareBear

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He can believe racism against black people exists, but once he turned on his own people to get Twitter likes, yes he's a traitor and a coward.

Blacks will never really accept him because he's not one of them, plus he's also cut ties with his own people. In the end, he will have no one left to defend him.
He turned on his own people by holding them accountable, the thing you are telling other people to do?

“Blacks will never accept him becuase he’s not one of them”

That’s a really shitty way to think, in my opinion, but that’s your choice. I think you’re projecting, and I think you’re deadass wrong, but again just my opinion. Maybe I’m wrong.

Many people accept others regardless of any superfluous differences.
 
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Nobody_Important

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He can believe racism against black people exists, but once he turned on his own people to get Twitter likes, yes he's a traitor and a coward.

Blacks will never really accept him because he's not one of them, plus he's also cut ties with his own people. In the end, he will have no one left to defend him.
Are we seriously pulling the "race traitor" card like this is the 1960's? What the fuck is wrong with you?

Full Tilt was literally just perm'd for that shit.
 
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Dunki

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Believing that racism and privilege exist makes him a race traitor coward?

Huh?
o it makes him stupid to beleive that being white is a privelege especially in a time like today which basically makes white people responsible when their shit is not normal coming out of their asses. And yes it is not black people but so called progrssive that write how white people are responsible for everything bad in the world and how everything white people do is racist.

Examples:
cycling
Eating
Yoga
wearing a Kimono
Hiking
Dancing
Drinking tea
Canouing
reading
smiling (yes this article actually did exist)

and so on. Being white in todays America and climate is basically you being labeld as racist when you do not kneel down to say how shitty you and white people are.

Just to note: Being proud of something you have no influence of like being white or black is fucking stupid
 
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Cucked SoyBoy

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Are we seriously pulling the "race traitor" card like this is the 1960's? What the fuck is wrong with you?

Full Tilt was literally just perm'd for that shit.

Look I'm just laughing at what a pathetic piece of cowardly shit this Korver guy is. It's just funny to me.

I assume the other guy was banned for saying black people are "too uncivilized to act human" which I have not said.

You've been banned more than me, kiddo. Hit the alert if you're feeling lucky.
 

RokkanStoned

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In the black community, responsible men hold each other accountable for their actions... We hold each other accountable because we want to further our community and get our young men to do better so that, then, the NEXT generation has a leg up and so on and so on.
.
You're not doing a good job by stereotyping here. Actually, it might just be that the sentence as itself makes no sense.

Imagine:
"In the white community, responsible men hold each other accountable for their actions... We hold each other accountable because we want to further our community and get our young men to do better so that, then, the NEXT generation has a leg up and so on and so on."

You can't logically be a representative of "the black community" and speak behalf of all of them. Also, is this something unique to the black community? If you're talking about some specific people you know, then that doesn't fix the first problem, but in fact it just increases the problem and makes one wonder why it's relevant. And "responsible men hold each other accountable for their actions" seems pretty empty and non-commitive. How many are these responsible men? How does one know who the responsible men are and what if some that aren't viewed as responsible disagree? How do you know that you want to further your community? Are you holding each other accountable? Are you each your own sheriff that exercise your power over others? I'm be facetious at this point, but the point with how little sense your post made should come through.
 

DeafTourette

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He can believe racism against black people exists, but once he turned on his own people to get Twitter likes, yes he's a traitor and a coward.

Blacks will never really accept him because he's not one of them, plus he's also cut ties with his own people. In the end, he will have no one left to defend him.
Blacks won't accept him? WTH?!

Projection... because YOU don't accept black people...

There are white people I consider family... I have white friends... I have favorite actors who are white ... And LOTS of black people think and feel similar...

I will never understand this perception that black people won't or don't accept white people.
 

JareBear

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"Time for me to shut up and listen."
That's fair, I guess, but I don't fully understand how being willing to empathize and communicate with people of different origins makes him weaker or less effective, or deprives himself of his own identity. I think it could be argued he's in fact boosting his effectiveness and adding to his identity by being willing to listen.

Personally, I couldn't help but value his insight of incidents his own teammates have gone through and how his thoughts have changed over his 16 year career. I'm glad he shared this.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Not exactly the same BUT...

In the black community, responsible men hold each other accountable for their actions... We hold each other accountable because we want to further our community and get our young men to do better so that, then, the NEXT generation has a leg up and so on and so on.
I agree with this attitude fully from an ideological/religious standpoint. I'm right there with you: I do believe that part of a man's responsibility is to improve and elevate the world around himself, to be a fixture of virtue in his community. That isn't a black or white thing. It's an ideological standpoint therefore the rightness or wrongness of the stance is an ideological one.

There's nothing inherent about blackness or whiteness that prescribes the behavior described above, which is why I reject guilt, responsibility, and accountability based on those immutable traits.

The response to racism isn't more racism.

Also, we live in an increasingly racially diverse country. Why is this article offensive to you or other posters here?
I can't speak for others, but if a white person -- a celebrity millionaire performing a 100% meaningless role in society -- wants to speak for white people, I reject their authority because I reject the idea that they have any authority based on the color of their skin. I would say the same applies to any community: if a person brings up a solution for this issue, are the more correct if they have the right skincolor e.g. is the black community only able to improve when black leaders lead it?

I do not deny that improvements must be made. I just disagree with some of the prescribed methods of reaching those aims.

Since I am white. a fundamental flaw of IdPol is that my opinion about the black community carries a negative penalty merely based on my skincolor (though I could just as easily lie and claim to be black, which is its own interesting problem). This is not how problems are solved nor how communities are healed. If you harbor in your heart a secret penalty against me, then you're a part of the problem.

Using "you" generally, not directed right at you, DeafTourette.

I mean, I can sort of understand you don't like being lectured to... Most adults don't. But I don't think that's what is going on in that article. I think it's one man sharing his experience and learning about racism through the prism of being with teammates day in and out and seeing their experiences and empathizing with them instead of saying "fake news" or "not a big deal".
If the goal is to solve problems, then half-truths and propaganda will interfere with solving problems. A person (whether white or black or whatever) standing up and saying that we need to address the problems of our communities to raise them up and improve their lives is a-okay with me. However, as soon as they attempt to add moral weight to their opinion based on their skincolor (or based on their penitence for their skincolor, in the case of this basketball player), I have lost any respect for that person.

I will definitely refuse to bow down when people want to take this ideology and swing it over my head like a cudgel in the name of justice and equality. Sorry, but blue is still blue and red is still red. Trying to brainwash me into thinking that red is blue (or that white people are responsible for events 100s of years ago) isn't going to unite our citizenry.

A lie is still a lie, even if it is being uttered in service of a noble cause.
 

Dunki

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Blacks won't accept him? WTH?!

Projection... because YOU don't accept black people...

There are white people I consider family... I have white friends... I have favorite actors who are white ... And LOTS of black people think and feel similar...

I will never understand this perception that black people won't or don't accept white people.
One Example:

Can My Children Be Friends With White People?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/opinion/sunday/interracial-friendship-donald-trump.html




Also Interracial relationships are also a petty big taboo as well. Aome even argue that being together witha white person wold be dangerous to them

Also did you forget how much shit these guys and their parents etc got because they wanted to trick their teacher by having the same hiarcut?

 
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btgorman

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Why do leftists constantly want to stir up shit by bringing up race time an again. The most race aware person I’ve met lately was some black man who kept joking about black people and that sure as hell made me uncomfortable because it’s important for me to see people as individuals.

As a minority I’ve always had good encounters with the police, hell more often than not they’ve given me warning instead of traffic tickets. Opportunities are available if you’re looking for them; I’ve always have had to make trade offs in opportunities available to me throughout my life.

The US is a great country. When I’m told the US is a racist country by racists or by people who don’t even live in the US, I just wanna slap a bitch. If you want a better life all you have to do is wake up and make a better life, provided you’re in good health.