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Project AM2R getting legally slammed by Nintendo; file hosts hit with DMCA notices

jnWake

Member
Mar 30, 2013
4,440
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It's a shame that the game got taken down but as many people have said it makes sense from Nintendo's legal point of view. I get that people enjoy fangames (I do too) but it's natural for Nintendo to want to protect their copyright. Sadly, they can't make concessions for higher quality efforts like this one, even if the dev put a lot of love into the creation.

Now, considering this particular fangame seems to be of good quality (haven't played it yet), it'd be a nice idea by Nintendo to actually contact the developer and try to either make the project official or something. I understand Nintendo taking down fangames, as sucky as it is, but they are silly if they waste the opportunity to foster talented developers that could support their franchises with quality content.
 

Branduil

Member
Sep 20, 2006
64,603
2
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Excellent Eriador
It's a shame that the game got taken down but as many people have said it makes sense from Nintendo's legal point of view. I get that people enjoy fangames (I do too) but it's natural for Nintendo to want to protect their copyright. Sadly, they can't make concessions for higher quality efforts like this one, even if the dev put a lot of love into the creation.

Of course they can make concessions. Just like other companies such as Sega, Valve, and Capcom have done. That they have instead chosen this path shows just how little they think of the Metroid fanbase, and how unconcerned they are with cultivating any kind of healthy fan-creator relationship.
 

Comfort Jones

Banned
Sep 8, 2013
3,244
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Of course they can make concessions. Just like other companies such as Sega, Valve, and Capcom have done. That they have instead chosen this path shows just how little they think of the Metroid fanbase, and how unconcerned they are with cultivating any kind of healthy fan-creator relationship.

Exactly how I feel.
 

jnWake

Member
Mar 30, 2013
4,440
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0
Of course they can make concessions. Just like other companies such as Sega, Valve, and Capcom have done. That they have instead chosen this path shows just how little they think of the Metroid fanbase, and how unconcerned they are with cultivating any kind of healthy fan-creator relationship.

That's the second part of my post. If the game is good I think Nintendo should take the chance and do something with it, officially.
 

RK128

Member
Jan 6, 2014
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Of course they can make concessions. Just like other companies such as Sega, Valve, and Capcom have done. That they have instead chosen this path shows just how little they think of the Metroid fanbase, and how unconcerned they are with cultivating any kind of healthy fan-creator relationship.

I feel this too, but Ash made a good point too; Nintendo could have C&D the game before it released. Its hard to make a fair judgement, as the game is in the wild with our without Nintendo's shut down, but I think you are right.

They seem to not want to make a connection to the fan base not unlike what SEGA did with Taxman & Stealth regarding the Sonic 1/2/CD Remasters and next year, Sonic Mania.

Nintendo's loss all things considered :l.
 

Griss

Member
Sep 26, 2013
11,685
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Dublin, Ireland
I think too many people here, in their rage toward Nintendo, are turning a blind eye to the fact that Nintendo didn't act until after the game had been released. In today's age of information, there is just no way somebody at Nintendo or affiliated with Nintendo did not know about the existence of this project for its nearly decade of development time. I don't care how on the down low it was compared to other fan projects; there were still videos and walkthroughs of AM2R's various demos and whatnot readily available on YouTube during most of that time. The project's existence was not some incredibly well-kept secret.

Of course I have no way to prove this, but sheer common sense leads me to believe that there's just no way Nintendo really did not know about AM2R all this time. If that's the case, I'd say it's very possible - even likely - that they chose not to act until they did to give fans a chance to get ahold of it before they did what they absolutely do have to do and protect the integrity of their IP by shutting it down. (And no, whatever you personally think about Federation Force and whether it's a "real" Metroid title/a worthy celebration of the franchise's 30th anniversary does not matter when it comes to the legal side of how these things work.)

If they knew about AM2R during even a small part of its protracted development period, Nintendo could have chosen to act at any moment - like Square did with Chrono Trigger: Crimson Echoes. They didn't. They let the game see release before they acted in an effort to unofficially satisfy a fanbase they know they aren't currently serving, and IMO they might have left AM2R alone entirely if it wasn't releasing mere days apart from their new in-house Metroid title and casting both their own Metroid title and their own treatment of the series of late in such a negative light. Honestly, Nintendo would have been incredibly stupid not to take action after provocative news headlines about "a single fan doing what Nintendo can't" and "fans celebrating Metroid's 30th anniversary in the way Nintendo won't" and whatnot started making the rounds. This way, at least, they were able to throw the fanbase a bone while doing what they legally have to do by aggressively protecting what they rightfully own.

Or maybe Nintendo really, actually, somehow didn't know about AM2R all this time and issued the takedown order on the first business day they could after learning about it. That's always possible. Unlikely to me, but possible. And even that's the case, they still wouldn't be in the wrong even a little bit - no matter how much it sucks for us fans.

Either way, one key takeaway point is this: no matter how hardcore or devoted a Metroid fan you are, Nintendo owes you nothing. As much as I love Metroid + AM2R and would have loved to see AM2R survive and thrive, Nintendo's acting well within their rights here. A lot of people in this thread do understand that, granted, but this gaming generation's extreme sense of entitlement to anything and everything they want regardless of legal or other factors is also rearing its ugly head here.

If Nintendo did intentionally let AM2R release before doing what they were always going to have to do and take it down - a likely scenario IMO, all things considered - I think that's pretty big of them. Yeah, it would have been awesome and ideal if they didn't take any legal action at all, but it's both very naive and incredibly unrealistic to expect that - especially when AM2R did the exact opposite of flying under the radar upon its release and, instead, drew a ton of attention and was used by many to shed Nintendo in a very unfavorable light.

Anyway, just my two cents!

This is exactly how I see it. There's no way they didn't know about this, therefore it's a conscious choice. And the way they've done it, everyone wins here.

The creator: He finished making his game, released it, everyone loved it, happy end.
The fans: We got a worthy remake of Metroid 2, already widely distrubted on torrents and which can never be 'removed' from the internet. Happy end.
Nintendo: Metroid gets some advertising with stories in the media, and they do what is necessary to protect that highly valuable IP. Happy end.
 

RK128

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Jan 6, 2014
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This is exactly how I see it. Everyone wins here.

The creator: He finished making his game, released it, everyone loved it, happy end.
The fans: We got a worthy remake of Metroid 2, already widely distrubted on torrents and which can never be 'removed' from the internet.
Nintendo: Metroid gets some advertising with stories in the media, and they do what is necessary to protect that highly valuable IP.

Very good points you make here. If the creator isn't hit with legal issues from Nintendo's Lawyers, then I'm in full agreement.

Just wish they would have worked with the creator on bringing the game to Wii U or 3DS but whatever.
 
Sep 1, 2013
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You can't possibly believe that.

Guacamelee's OT lifetime was 50 pages.
Axiom Verge's OT lifetime was 28 pages.
AM2R's OT ongoing OT is already at 25.

The first 2 had marketing budgets and official releases on consoles. AM2R, while being around for 10 years, doesn't have any of that.

The game is good on it's own merits, but lets not pretend it being Metroid adds nothing to it.

Street Fighter had like 3 OTs in the first month and sold like shit , I wouldnt take pages on GAF as a metric.
 

rekameohs

Banned
Feb 10, 2011
13,488
0
0
Street Fighter had like 3 OTs in the first month and sold like shit , I wouldnt take pages on GAF as a metric.
I think the point of the post was to show that a Metroid fangame is inherently more popular than if the same developer made a unique game (with AM2R's new bosses and areas, etc.)

And it makes sense. Aspiring developers probably base their ideas off their favorites games and some, to get the ball rolling, choose to do an updated remake as a fangame before moving on to original work. And DoctorM64 certainly got his name out there.
 

TheBryanJZX90

Member
May 4, 2012
5,506
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435
Nobody is fooled by this kind of corporate cheerleading masquerading as ethical concerns.

Saying a fangame is "stealing" is a disgusting dismissal of years of unpaid labor, and reeks of empty suits who have no love for anything which doesn't make them money.

They put work in to make the game, yes, but they're still getting an unfair advantage by skipping the labor and effort to make an original character, setting, and story of their own. That's not ethical.
 

rekameohs

Banned
Feb 10, 2011
13,488
0
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Make your own IP, don't steal others.
Sonic Mania would literally not exist if that was forced harder, since Taxman started making popular Sonic fangames, which got Sega's attention for the iOS ports, which lead to this full game release, so I cannot agree.
 

LincolnTunnel

Member
Jun 22, 2012
547
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Making fan productions isn't stealing IP's man :l. SELLING your fan game as an official one without the IP owners blessing is stealing however.

It might seem shitty from a fan's perspective, but legally it's the same thing. You don't have to sell the game in order to be infringing on their copyright.


Nobody is fooled by this kind of corporate cheerleading masquerading as ethical concerns.

Saying a fangame is "stealing" is a disgusting dismissal of years of unpaid labor, and reeks of empty suits who have no love for anything which doesn't make them money.

Putting in years of labor doesn't entitle to use somebody else's IP for your project. Being a huge fan doesn't entitle you to use somebody's IP.
 

PtM

Banned
Jan 7, 2015
6,127
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Not even day of. Was publicly in development for nearly a decade. Had numerous released demos that were publicly available and playable. Had an announced release date of August 6th, the 30th Anniversary for Metroid, with a countdown timer. It actually came out and was publicly up for a full 48 hours with publicity from multiple big gaming sites. Only then did it begin to be taken down. And then it was still up another 12+ hours on the official site before apparently being completely removed. And now it's still findable and obtainable and will be.

Nintendo had a ton of opportunity. The weird part is how long they waited and how they did it.
In my opinion, because of the publicity the game got. If ZeldaClassic ever gets that kind of coverage, it'll be toast as well.

Nothing to do with letting it fully release for the fans.
 

nephilimdj

Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,844
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Straya
I have no problem on a small scale of people using other peoples IP, be it a fan game or a song remix on youtube.
But I do understand how Nintendo wouldnt be happy that this game has been promoted on every social media gaming website on thr internet.
 

Branduil

Member
Sep 20, 2006
64,603
2
0
Excellent Eriador
It might seem shitty from a fan's perspective, but legally it's the same thing. You don't have to sell the game in order to be infringing on their copyright.

Copyright infringement isn't theft. It's copyright infringement.

Putting in years of labor doesn't entitle to use somebody else's IP for your project. Being a huge fan doesn't entitle you to use somebody's IP.

And merely possessing an IP doesn't entitle the fans of that IP to respect you or buy your games. If the Metroid IP dies, Nintendo will have no one to blame but themselves for their continuous antagonism, apathy towards, and dismissal of the fanbase.

They put work in to make the game, yes, but they're still getting an unfair advantage by skipping the labor and effort to make an original character, setting, and story of their own. That's not ethical.

Selling it would be unethical. Making a fangame, creating art of value, and giving it away for free is incredibly ethical, and I don't want to live in any corporate hellhole which would view fanworks with such derision.
 

Agent Unknown

Member
Mar 6, 2008
7,854
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While I can understand them wanting to protect their IP in principle and it's good that they apparently (stress on the word apparently) at least cut the game and the creator a break by waiting until the game was out in the wild and available to play, they are obviously embarrassed that a fan made game has now caught fire in the media and is completely showing them up on the 30th Anniversary which they couldn't even be bothered to mention or do any single thing for and really goes to show what a garbage job they have done maintaining the Metroid brand.

It's also hypocritical and contradictory because as said before by this same logic shouldn't they also be "protecting" both SMW and Mario Maker's brand from rom hacking tools like Lunar Magic not to mention taking down all other fan games like this? Bottom line, fan made or not, this is the best 2D Metroid title since Zero Mission (obviously a lofty comparison but it's the truth) and this whole situation demonstrates what a terribly antiquated and downright antagonistic relationship certain elements within Nintendo are determined to maintain with the fan community. Just the existence of Sonic Mania shows how out of touch Nintendo is but what do you expect when NCL didn't even invite any western indies to make any spotlight levels for Mario Maker?

Of course they can make concessions. Just like other companies such as Sega, Valve, and Capcom have done. That they have instead chosen this path shows just how little they think of the Metroid fanbase, and how unconcerned they are with cultivating any kind of healthy fan-creator relationship.

This sums up my feelings as well.
 

rekameohs

Banned
Feb 10, 2011
13,488
0
0
Bottom line, fan made or not, this is the best 2D Metroid title since Zero Mission (obviously a lofty comparison but it's the truth)
Probably hard for even Nintendo to dispute that since Zero Mission is the most recent 2D Metroid. :p

Yeah, 12 years ago is the most recent 2D Metroid.... Well, I suppose Pinball used sprites simulating 3D but you get the idea!
 

Pancakes R Us

Member
Aug 24, 2007
6,711
2
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Sega, Valve, ID software all see talented fans develop great products with their engines (Sonic engine redone, amazing Doom mods, Counter Strike, Portal, Black Mesa), and not only do they not take the projects down they promote them and in several cases hire the dev on to their company.

So yeah Nintendo is clueless. If they gave two shits about the IP they were "protecting" a fan shouldn't have had to release an amazing Metroid 2 remake.
I feel like Nintendo has this old Japanese mentality, or at least maintains the mentality of the old Nintendo guard in some respects, which means they don't engage with or support fans like he AM2R guy in the same way other companies have. It's a shame, Nintendo is a forward thinking company in so many ways but is also backwards in probably just as many.
 

Foffy

Banned
May 14, 2009
22,560
2
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I'm sure AM2R will probably get more downloads than Federation Force will get sales.

Maybe that's why Nintendo gives such a shit about this? It's taking away interest from an official title in the same IP? Even if we can all unanimously say that game is not what people want at all from the IP?
 
Jun 12, 2013
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I think the problem is a lack of interested developers. Retro doesn't want to make more Metroid, and the major heads from the Prime years have moved on. Sakamoto has other stuff to do and seems to have moved on from the title/brand. Tanabe... decided to have this project made/revived and NLG itself is probably working on something else entirely with their main body. Also Tanabe isn't in charge of or in control of Retro anymore, and they have seemingly gained the autonomy to make their own IP.

Short of Nintendo picking up a new studio that has extreme interest in a 2D platformer *coughYachtClubcough*, there's no real talent left as everyone else has their own stable IPs/new IPs or projects.

Or I guess Retro's expansion could bud into a new smaller team...?

You must not have seen the recent thread illustrating the headcounts of Nintendo's Subsidiaries. Retro is 70+, which is right around where Next Level is as well. It's very doubtful either of them are working on two major projects at once.

edit: I'm not buying the theory that Nintendo purposefully let this game get to completion and then afterwards took it down to protect the IP. That would require levels of being in touch with the community that Nintendo is magnitudes away from.

The game has been all over Youtube, GAF, and and the largest Metroid fansite for years and years. There is absolutely no way Nintendo did not know about the project.
 

EatinOlives

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Oct 23, 2011
16,849
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“Nintendo’s broad library of characters, products, and brands are enjoyed by people around the world, and we appreciate the passion of our fans,” reads a statement provided to IGN by a Nintendo representative. “But just as Nintendo respects the intellectual property rights of others, we must also protect our own characters, trademarks and other content. The unapproved use of Nintendo’s intellectual property can weaken our ability to protect and preserve it, or to possibly use it for new projects.”

Yeah they really need to protect their precious, precious IP (an IP so beloved to Nintendo that they haven't made a decent entry in 9 years) to use it for new and exciting projects like Chibi 3DS Spinoff whose reveal was so poorly received they've been trying to put out the flames since that day.

Not only starve your fans of content they want, actively antagonize them too when they try to do something about it. This is (partly) why you're in last place, Nintendo.
 

LincolnTunnel

Member
Jun 22, 2012
547
0
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Copyright infringement isn't theft. It's copyright infringement.

I never said it was theft. I was merely stating that regardless of whether or not you are selling or profiting from something that utilizes somebody else's copyright IP, it's the same thing from a legal standpoint. People for some reason are convinced that if you're not selling it you can do whatever you want.

And merely possessing an IP doesn't entitle the fans of that IP to respect you or buy your games. If the Metroid IP dies, Nintendo will have no one to blame but themselves for their continuous antagonism, apathy towards, and dismissal of the fanbase.


But what possessing an IP does entitle you to do is decide how said IP can be used, and who can use it. If Nintendo doesn't want you to make an fan game, that is 100% their legal right.

Selling it would be unethical. Making a fangame, creating art of value, and giving it away for free is incredibly ethical, and I don't want to live in any corporate hellhole which would view fanworks with such derision.

Making a remake of somebody else's game, which is still for sale, and offering it as a free download on the internet is not "incredibly" ethical. It doesn't matter how badly Nintendo has used the franchise or how much work people put into it.
 
Aug 17, 2006
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I feel like Nintendo has this old Japanese mentality, or at least maintains the mentality of the old Nintendo guard in some respects, which means they don't engage with or support fans like he AM2R guy in the same way other companies have. It's a shame, Nintendo is a forward thinking company in so many ways but is also backwards in probably just as many.

Doesn't surprise me - I reckon the ppl up top are just as old and conservative as the higher ups at Konami. Thankfully those at Nintendo HQ still care about gaming, but archaic mindsets still abound.
 

Agent Unknown

Member
Mar 6, 2008
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Copyright infringement isn't theft. It's copyright infringement.



And merely possessing an IP doesn't entitle the fans of that IP to respect you or buy your games. If the Metroid IP dies, Nintendo will have no one to blame but themselves for their continuous antagonism, apathy towards, and dismissal of the fanbase.

Very well said. This also just reinforces my complete and utter lack of interest in playing Federation Force, that game looks so unappealing already and I refuse to support their mismanagement of the series and its brand. We've been waiting over a decade for Metroid Dread/Metroid 5 and they're so out of touch they give us a chibi bobble head eyesore of a game and punish fans for trying to just enjoy a milestone in their own storied history they can't even be bothered to mention.

Also, wait for the finger wagging, lecturing and misapplied hyperbole about "immature fan outrage" from certain corporate butt kissers on the podcasts. "Nintendo is just trying to protect their property! Why are you going to punish Next Level games?! Yeah it looks ugly but give the game a chance! Fan mobs and all that!" To that I say it's not "fan outrage," it's simply people not being willing to accept TERRIBLE BRAND MANAGEMENT AND GARBAGE AESTHETICS, PURE AND SIMPLE. If The Force Awakens was presented as a spin off of the Ewok Adventure or focused heavily on Jar Jar instead of being a proper sequel to the Star Wars series would fans be happy and would that have revitalized the brand after the prequels? Of course not, people would be up in arms and folks would think Lucasfilm and Disney had lost their minds but because Metroid is a niche sci-fi video game series and this is Nintendo we're expected to just suck it up and shrug these things off as normal when it's all completely insane not only from a fan person give but simple corporate brand promotional logic.

Probably hard for even Nintendo to dispute that since Zero Mission is the most recent 2D Metroid. :p

Yeah, 12 years ago is the most recent 2D Metroid.... Well, I suppose Pinball used sprites simulating 3D but you get the idea!

Yeah, I guess the "only" 2D Metroid since Zero Mission would have been the better way to phrase that but you knew what I meant. :p
 

LincolnTunnel

Member
Jun 22, 2012
547
0
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Yeah they really need to protect their precious, precious IP (an IP so beloved to Nintendo that they haven't made a decent entry in 9 years) to use it for new and exciting projects like Chibi 3DS Spinoff whose reveal was so poorly received they've been trying to put out the flames since that day.

Not only starve your fans of content they want, actively antagonize them too when they try to do something about it. This is (partly) why you're in last place, Nintendo.

Yes, Nintendo does need to protect their IP. That's how Copyright and Trademark laws work. It doesn't matter that you don't like the things they've used the IP for. It doesn't matter that they're not using it for the things you want them to use it for. Nintendo isn't trying to actively antagonize Metroid fans. To think so is naive at best and delusional at worst. Nintendo is not a person. There is no top Nintendo mastermind ordering people to make sure Metroid fans are unhappy. They're a corporation. If they don't believe there's profit to be made from a new Metroid game they aren't going to make one. The Metroid fanbase does not enter into that equation. If they want to try making something new and feel that attaching an existing IP to it is the best way to generate interest or sales, that's what they're going to do.

There is nobody saying "Hey, lets make a Metroid game nobody wants, and then take down the fan game they're excited for! That'll show those lousy Metroid fans!" Instead there are people in a legal department noticing how large a fan project has gotten and deciding to take legal action in order to protect their IP. There are people in game design departments deciding whether or not they have a good idea for a new game, Metroid or not, and deciding what to do with it. There are people in finance creating projections of how well a new 2D Metroid, or a new 3D Metroid, or a new Metroid Pinball would perform in the marketplace and passing the results on to the people who would make the decision to greenlight a new game.

None of these people are trying to antagonize the Metroid fanbase. None of these are attempting to act in a malicious way. They're just running a business, making games they think will sell, and sometimes taking chances with a new idea to see what sticks. Sometimes they make bad decisions. They probably didn't anticipate the reaction Federation Force received, and it's debatable how it would have fared had the Metroid name not been attached, but that's the game they're making.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Jun 9, 2004
51,621
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Ultimately, things played out well enough in that the game was actually released so it will never be eliminated from the internet.

Make your own IP, don't steal others.
I do believe that Christian Whitehead is a shining example of how it can actually pay off. He made his own engine in order to create Sonic games even going so far as to recreate Sonic CD. The result? Contracted by Sega to port classic Sonic games eventually leading to the opportunity to work on a completely original game.

Clearly, anyone with such aspirations should avoid working on Nintendo themed games.

Lucasfilm just hosted a Star Wars fan made film festival,
Oh yeah, that's another good one. Disney, of all companies, is allowing this.

It is possible to allow fan creations to exist without cheapening the IP.
 

TheBryanJZX90

Member
May 4, 2012
5,506
2
435
Yes, Nintendo does need to protect their IP. That's how Copyright and Trademark laws work. It doesn't matter that you don't like the things they've used the IP for. It doesn't matter that they're not using it for the things you want them to use it for. Nintendo isn't trying to actively antagonize Metroid fans. To think so is naive at best and delusional at worst. Nintendo is not a person. There is no top Nintendo mastermind ordering people to make sure Metroid fans are unhappy. They're a corporation. If they don't believe there's profit to be made from a new Metroid game they aren't going to make one. The Metroid fanbase does not enter into that equation. If they want to try making something new and feel that attaching an existing IP to it is the best way to generate interest or sales, that's what they're going to do.

Actually that's just trademark, not copyright. If I remember correctly.
 

Yukinari

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May 11, 2015
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Isnt Mushroom Kingdom Fusion still getting updated? Isnt Fox In Space still getting more episodes? Not to mention Mother 4 still in development.

How big and spread around does a fan project need to get to be taken down?
 

Rich!

Member
Dec 16, 2009
29,963
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I still feel justified in assuming Nintendo wouldn't shut the project down. They didnt stop it from being made nor released. Saying they didn't know it existed until it launched is implausible - I made a post here stating Baby Park was the best MK track and Bill Trinen almost immediately tweeted a link to the post in agreement. You bet your ass he and others have read the AM2R thread, and that's just here on GAF.

I think the reason they shut it down, an act which is really unprecedented as far as Nintendo and nonprofit fangames go, is because of this:

They expected it to launch and be a nice little diversion for fans. One dude from Argentina working on a little project is fine - the interest could even work in their favour towards pushing Federation Force sales. Only....that's not what happened. The game launched, and got near unprecedented cover and acclaim around the internet to the point of numerous fans and publications outright stating AM2R is better than anything Nintendo could ever make - and many of them essentially offering it as a direct alternative to Federation Force. The game was getting more positive and thorough coverage than expected to the point of it being viewed as the REAL Metroid game out of the two (sad that it's come to this point).

Nintendo didn't act until they realised the game was so good it was making them look bad. And not only that, making their equivalent Metroid product this month seem a joke.

That's why they did what they did. Otherwise, it would still be up.
 

spazchicken

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Jan 10, 2011
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Alpine CA
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Nintendo should have researched the project, contacted the team and made the game an official release on Virtual Console. Everything was done already. All Nintendo had to do was QA and cash in.

They missed a great opportunity, but we didn't.
 

EatinOlives

Member
Oct 23, 2011
16,849
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Yes, Nintendo does need to protect their IP. That's how Copyright and Trademark laws work. It doesn't matter that you don't like the things they've used the IP for. It doesn't matter that they're not using it for the things you want them to use it for. Nintendo isn't trying to actively antagonize Metroid fans. To think so is naive at best and delusional at worst. Nintendo is not a person. There is no top Nintendo mastermind ordering people to make sure Metroid fans are unhappy. They're a corporation. If they don't believe there's profit to be made from a new Metroid game they aren't going to make one. The Metroid fanbase does not enter into that equation. If they want to try making something new and feel that attaching an existing IP to it is the best way to generate interest or sales, that's what they're going to do.

There is nobody saying "Hey, lets make a Metroid game nobody wants, and then take down the fan game they're excited for! That'll show those lousy Metroid fans!" Instead there are people in a legal department noticing how large a fan project has gotten and deciding to take legal action in order to protect their IP. There are people in game design departments deciding whether or not they have a good idea for a new game, Metroid or not, and deciding what to do with it. There are people in finance creating projections of how well a new 2D Metroid, or a new 3D Metroid, or a new Metroid Pinball would perform in the marketplace and passing the results on to the people who would make the decision to greenlight a new game.

None of these people are trying to antagonize the Metroid fanbase. None of these are attempting to act in a malicious way. They're just running a business, making games they think will sell, and sometimes taking chances with a new idea to see what sticks. Sometimes they make bad decisions. They probably didn't anticipate the reaction Federation Force received, and it's debatable how it would have fared had the Metroid name not been attached, but that's the game they're making.

Intent doesn't matter when that's what it ends up being to the end user. A dumb spinoff game nobody wants is getting released, and the only other Metroid-related content that happens to be fan made is being taken down literally because it got too popular (aka people liked it too much). It's terrible optics and they should've known how it would end up looking to the fans. But they didn't care.

Nintendo has other options, this isn't their only one. They could've just as well collaborated with the creator to make this an official release (other companies have done this before). They could've also simply looked the other way (other companies have done this before). Nintendo (or their legal team, rather) CHOSE to be litigious over this and shut it down, and people have a right to be angry at it just as much as Nintendo has a right to do it.
 

Vena

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Sep 2, 2014
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You must not have seen the recent thread illustrating the headcounts of Nintendo's Subsidiaries. Retro is 70+, which is right around where Next Level is as well. It's very doubtful either of them are working on two major projects at once.

I could have sworn retro expanded recently to like 200, but I may be confused.
 

LincolnTunnel

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Jun 22, 2012
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Actually that's just trademark, not copyright. If I remember correctly.

If you control what you consider to be a valuable IP, you should protect both. You can not lose a copyright by not defending it like you can with a trademark, but defending a copyright is important for setting legal precedent and preventing devaluation of your copyright. If a copyright infringement case goes to trial, how rigorously you've defended your copyright can be taken into account when rewarding damages. I wish i could have worded this without using the word copyright so much.

Intend doesn't matter when that's what it ends up being to the end user. A dumb spinoff game nobody wants is getting released, and the only other Metroid-related content that happens to be fan made is being taken down literally because it got too popular (aka people liked it too much).

Nintendo has other options, this isn't their only one. They could've just as well collaborated with the creator to make this an official release (other companies have done this before). They could've also simply looked the other way (other companies have done this before). Nintendo (or their legal team, rather) CHOSE to be litigious over this and shut it down, and people have a right to be angry at it just as much as Nintendo has a right to do it.

Intent does matter. It's fine to be upset that Nintendo is not producing the game that you want them to make, and it's fine to be upset that a fan game is taken down. That doesn't change the fact that none of this is done maliciously. The narrative that Nintendo as a company hates and actively antagonizes Metroid fans is ridiculous.
 

Branduil

Member
Sep 20, 2006
64,603
2
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Excellent Eriador
If you control what you consider to be a valuable IP, you should protect both. You can not lose a copyright by not defending it like you can with a trademark, but defending a copyright is important for setting legal precedent and preventing devaluation of your copyright. If a copyright infringement case goes to trial, how rigorously you've defended your copyright can be taken into account when rewarding damages. I wish i could have worded this without using the word copyright so much.


Intent does matter. It's fine to be upset that Nintendo is not producing the game that you want them to make, and it's fine to be upset that a fan game is taken down. That doesn't change the fact that none of this is done maliciously. The narrative that Nintendo as a company hates and actively antagonizes Metroid fans is ridiculous.

I don't think Nintendo hates Metroid fans. That would require a level of concern or even awareness of their existence that Nintendo has consistently failed to demonstrate.
 

HawthorneKitty

Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Feb 22, 2012
23,241
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I don't think Nintendo hates Metroid fans. That would require a level of concern or even awareness of their existence that Nintendo has consistently failed to demonstrate.
If they don't hate them why do they continuously antagonize, create apathy towards, and dismiss the fanbase?
 

TheBryanJZX90

Member
May 4, 2012
5,506
2
435
Sega is letting an indie western fan dev and a fan tribute musician make Sonic Mania and Disney and Lucasfilm just hosted a Star Wars fan made film festival, just two examples which show how out of touch Nintendo is with fan relations and brand management.

That hardly means that every single fan game should be accepted with open arms. Let's take an extreme example and work backwards. Should Nintendo shut down a fan game that features Mario acting like a GTA protagonist? With enough violence and nudity to get it an M rating?
 

hlhbk

Member
Jun 9, 2009
6,088
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0
I feel like Nintendo has this old Japanese mentality, or at least maintains the mentality of the old Nintendo guard in some respects, which means they don't engage with or support fans like he AM2R guy in the same way other companies have. It's a shame, Nintendo is a forward thinking company in so many ways but is also backwards in probably just as many.

Nintendo has fallen so far from grace in my eyes its not even funny. I say this as someone who had a launch NES at the age of 8, chose the SNES over the Genesis, and an N64 over a PS1, and bought a Wii U on launch day.

They aren't even in the same league with Xbox/PC/PS4 anymore. While I recognize there are some great games on it the launch Wii U is the single biggest gaming purchase regret I have ever had. Very little 3rd party support, Nintendo releases like 2 titles a year, and it just sits there collecting dust.

If the rumors about the NX are true it just confirms that Nintendo is out of touch with what it takes to be a successful console maker in 2016. Every time you hear them speak they are in denial about their status in the industry, and things like what has happened here after they have completely neglected the Metroid franchise of any quality titles over a decade while the Wii U has almost nothing coming out for it is a complete joke.

I never thought I would say this after the pain that was the death of the Dreamcast but I hope and pray that the NX dies the death it deserves and Nintendo bows out of the hardware business to become a third party software developer. This isn't 1985. Nintendo needs to wake up and get with the times or GTFO of the console market.
 

EatinOlives

Member
Oct 23, 2011
16,849
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Intent does matter. It's fine to be upset that Nintendo is not producing the game that you want them to make, and it's fine to be upset that a fan game is taken down. That doesn't change the fact that none of this is done maliciously. The narrative that Nintendo as a company hates and actively antagonizes Metroid fans is ridiculous.

I'm not saying that I think they're doing it maliciously. I'm saying they're so out of touch with their fanbase that when fans deprived of content they like have to resort to make Nintendo's games for them, the only reaction they have to this dire state of affairs is "...bu- bu-but WE are the only ones who should get to make this!!'
 

KingBroly

Banned
Mar 18, 2015
23,759
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They don't actually do these things.

They ignored them for 5 years, announced Federation Force, tried to double down on, saying fans were "confused" about it (aka 'you don't know shit') and fans STILL hated it. Fans knew what they wanted after 5 years (now 6) and it wasn't a chibi-looking multiplayer/online focused spin-off on the 3DS near the end of its' life-cycle. THAT is what Nintendo ignored. Not paying attention to your fanbase to try and gather where you've gone wrong after a failure is lunacy. It's insanity that Federation Force, like Other M, is the producer's "dream game" for the series, considering how the last one of those went.
 

HawthorneKitty

Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Feb 22, 2012
23,241
0
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They ignored them for 5 years, announced Federation Force, tried to double down on, saying fans were "confused" about it (aka 'you don't know shit') and fans STILL hated it. Fans knew what they wanted after 5 years (now 6) and it wasn't a chibi-looking multiplayer/online focused spin-off on the 3DS near the end of its' life-cycle. THAT is what Nintendo ignored. Not paying attention to your fanbase to try and gather where you've gone wrong after a failure is lunacy. It's insanity that Federation Force, like Other M, is the producer's "dream game" for the series, considering how the last one of those went.
I don't blame them, Metroid games must sell like shit compared to costs.
 

Kaisos

Member
Feb 16, 2014
1,025
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Canada
Nintendo should have researched the project, contacted the team and made the game an official release on Virtual Console. Everything was done already. All Nintendo had to do was QA and cash in.

There is an insane amount more involved than this. It's not so simple.

I don't blame them, Metroid games must sell like shit compared to costs.

Didn't it only do a tenth of Zelda's lifetime sales? This is not the major IP people want to think it is.