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Project Cars 1080p on PS4 - 900p on Xbox One. 60fps on both.
- Thread starter Hanmik
- Start date
-Amon-
Member
It's not a matter of performance, but routines that are built to make the ai react in certain situations. In that aspect this sim does not look that different from others that came before. Of course when you up the ai speed bringing it near the capabilities of the driver that's behind the wheel, many problems disappear. But apart from that, I was not saying that the Ai was terrible, just similar from what I could see to other Sims. Looks serviceable, in the sense that is aware of where you are and does not want to make a Senna on you.
That's enough.
Well at least for the nordics, UK and Germany have pretty similar total costs per hired employee. Not necessarily quite as competitive as say LA, but you wouldn't be able to run a proper studio with over 100 developers under 10 million USD burnrate. I'm not quite up to date on Japan, but I highly doubt they have half the costs per employee.
Lion Heart
Banned
Looking good, I might end up grabbing the PS4 edition. Nice to know it's a great version although I don't know if I can play without a wheel.
Journey
Banned
Not entirely correct. The current situation on XBO is a bad one, meanwhile Sony's GNM solution seems to be working wonderfully for developers. As I pointed out, the developer for Metro Redux explains that even when using the Mono driver which is supposed to provide access to code "close to the metal" can be "a million times slower" (actual devs words) than when coding for GNM because of all the DX11 bookkeeping it does.
Also for your second point, we don't need to look any further than 360 vs PS3 where initial SDK for PS3 was a mess, whereas 360's was fine, this led to initial 360 games performing miles better than PS3 despite similar raw power. PS3's SDK having much more room to improve than 360 meant that there was a LOT more for the PS3 to gain despite 360 getting it's own refinements.
The hardware raw differences will always remain, however currently and according to developer feedback, the difference appears to be bigger than it should be, so you're seeing worse performance than what the raw difference should reflect. Ultimately the goal is to reach parity on the software efficiency level, but never parity based on the hardware difference, the PS4 always have the power advantage; I think that's where most people confuse what's being discussed, including believing the PS4 has equal ground to gain over the mess MS, just as Sony last gen, put out.
Big Takeover
Member
Yep. I was just pointing out "painfully slow mid-corner" is just AI difficulty. As you just said now, it's a virtual non-issue when equalized with the player.
That's the good part. The bad part is they still have erratic behavior especially on lap 1. It's not a deal breaker, but it hurts the product. It's not class leading AI by my standards at least (rF2).
Running a studio has other overhead of course, but if we're talking team-compensation costs alone(what previous posts primarily discussed), I'd say it would be well below 1M/month in most of Europe, including Germany/UK (before Euro crash, right now it's not a fair comparison anyway), and Japan would come in even lower(unless we're using inflated Yen from 2011)._machine said:
Man, that interview was in August last year! XSDK changed! From then onwards Xbone had a few SDK updates. And nothing special has happened. Xbone still has sub1080p games and so it will be in future.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=157443100&postcount=28
True, but Amar specifically mentioned annual development and RND costs so I would imagine he was talking about the burnrate . I can't really talk in detail, but I can assure you that some of the studios I know wouldn't get close to below $1M/month if they were close 140 strong. I have no idea about the costs in Japan, but I really can't believe they would get down $10M burnrate; I'll definitely ask around though since it's pretty interesting.
Some games would have been worse if it wasn't for the SDK update. It wasn't going to make everything 1080p (especially considering the PS4 is still getting 900p games).
Journey
Banned
1. Oles Shishkovstov clearly pointed out in the interview how despite best efforts from MS, they were too late to be included in Metro Redux, this is a late 2014 release, so any title released up to this point or shortly after will likely not have benefited from these improvements, but we can expect future titles to run better, and at this point they might as well just wait for DX12.
2. Did you not read anything said? It's not about having sub hd or not, it's about having worse performance than the raw numbers would suggest, such as having a 720p vs 1080p disparity instead of 900p vs 1080p, or for instance Tomb Raider running at 30fps with weaker assets vs 60fps with higher assets on the PS4, compared to Dark Souls having just a 10fps difference with equal assets. I wouldn't call that special, and no one is talking about miracles, but DS2 running at 1080p at 40-50fps while the PS4 is running with the same assets at 50-60fps is something I would consider an improvement.
Lightning Count
Member
12K?
Damn, guess I better get saving for my next mega rig in about three years time.
The devs are working with Alan to hook him up with a current build on console for more up to date videos.
Also... I miss Mugello
I love that track so much.Netherscourge
Banned
I wonder what 12K downsampled looks like...
Would you even need AA at that point? Like if you downsampled to 1080p or maybe just 4K?
Would you even need AA at that point? Like if you downsampled to 1080p or maybe just 4K?
rokkerkory
Member
Expected and I am okay with this.
Probably will be this way for rest of the gen.
Thanks Don
Probably will be this way for rest of the gen.
Thanks Don
By "still getting 900p games" are you talking about Battlefield: Hardline?
That's a pretty short list.
Assassin's Creed Unity (900p) came out after Destiny too; The PS4 has still received 900p games so the Xbox One obviously will too. That was my point. It wasn't a dig at the PS4.
Some of you really need to dial it back a bit (lol).
Journey
Banned
Short or not, it means that depending on assets, even the PS4 can be pushed down to 900p despite having well equiped hardware for 1080p, aka the 900p metric for SDK improvement benefits is not a very good one, a better metric would be the contrast from Tomb Raider port to Dark Souls 2 port, which shows how the PS4 will always have better performance, but it should never be double. Edit: UFC is also 900p.
thelastword
Banned
As it should be, but I don't see what's so appealing about the graphics on display here tbh. I'm happy it's 1080p 60fps no doubt but it's does not look that great. Still it's a fair tradeoff for a sim-racer not developed by Polyphony Digital.
I'm guessing the pedigree of the developer and the budget are not equal between these two developers, so that explains it somewhat.
The problem it's when ps4 will start to put out more 900p, what will happens on xbone? 720p? Because below 900p the IQ difference could start to be really notable. So it's not exactly a better thing for xbone in any case.
That makes sense. Many people will get a bad impression out of that footage. He's even commenting on the controls... it doesn't make much sense to me. He mentions it's an older build, but still.The devs are working with Alan to hook him up with a current build on console for more up to date videos.
Also... I miss Mugello
And yeah, Muguello is a big loss. I love that circuit. I want it back in full force :-(
You do. In fact, I'd say High MSAA looks far better than 4k downsampled with no AA. Luckily enough this game has different supersampling options with added AA as possible AA configs (I use DS2X, which is basically 2k with added AA).
seems like they got the main thing GT's missing, and thats sound & campaign. The graphics look pretty friggen good as well. If the sim's as good as it's said to be, what else do ya really need?
PD needs to step up their game, and I'm glad something like PCars is going to be a bar that needs to be hurdled, along with Drive Club. Those are two very mind-blowing projects. How much more realistic can GT get than Driveclub/Pcars at this point with 1080pgaming..? I'll wait to be shocked by PD, but i just can't see the visuals being some how teeth-kicking when it releases..?
hmm.. all good things to wonder about.
Diprosalic
Banned
so a simcade then.
Jamesways
Member
I haven't been to the official forum recently, I didn't realize that wasn't in. Bummer. Do you know if they're going to bring it back/license it?
FairXchange
Member
Some may need to dial it back, but I think you're willfully forgetting the controversy and parity debate surrounding AC Unity. They stated it would be 1080p initially, then made it on par with Xbox One to "avoid debates and stuff". Of course that story would be retracted and they attempted to save face, but I think that said enough.
Witcher 3 looks more ambitious and impressive than AC:U and is 1080p on PS4, so again, this isn't really a problem on the PS4. The Battlefield games are an exception, I suppose.
They are working on it but it won'T be at launch for sure.
No official word on it.
They said they approached the Mugello people for the license, but were getting no reply up until late in the dev cycle, so they had to take it out because there was no time to include it in the game for release.
Andy G. also said it's a big loss for him, because he loves the track (who wouldn't?).
So, I hope these are signs that the track will come back at a later time. One can dream...
Journey
Banned
Look at BF4, it's 900p on PS4 and 720p on X1, so naturally when engines get more abititous, this may be what's going to happen, unless the bottleneck is elsewhere and the bigger bandwidth and other advantages are minimized at lower resolutions, for example see UFC where it's 900p on both PS4 and X1.
It's better in the sense that the games would look even worse on Xbox One if it didn't have updates. There's more to how a game looks than just resolution.
900p on PS4 may mean 900p on Xbox One too or a resolution that's under that. That wasn't my point though.
____________________
My point was simply that the SDK updates weren't going to make everything on the Xbox One 1080p though it doesn't mean that it hasn't caused an improvement.
Not sure why you guys are focusing on what I said about the PS4 so much -- if the PS4 is still getting 900p games then of course the Xbox One is still going to get games under 1080p too as it's the weaker system.
thelastword
Banned
I think GT was unto something with improvements to their sound and campaign in GT6. The cool menu/ui, the minimal loading times as is in driveclub, it seems that Sony devs got the memo on many of the niggling issues with racers last gen. On the visual side I have no doubts that GT will outclass even Driveclub and that's a 30fps racer, so farless PC. Since GT7 is a brand new game on brand new hardware I expect the overhaul on all fronts to be significant.
Of course, I think PC is landing at a very friendly time, there are very few sim racers out there atm and even less so on the PS4, so it should do well. I'm happy they prioritized a high update of 60fps, but there just seems to be something lacking in the footage I've seen, it just does not look that exciting. It reminds me quite a bit of Ferrari Challenge which I played quite a bit on PS3, which didn't have the best visuals or the best driving model but was more or less solid.
Journey
Banned
And we have seen the fruits of it. Killer Instinct Season 2 is running at 900p/60, an improvement in pixels that's about as big as the jump from 900p to 1080p, but imo more significant visually, because 720p looks pretty bad on a 1080p set, whereas 900p doesn't look too bad at all. To claim it hasn't made a difference is pretty disengenous, even if being ignorant of these changes, don't come claiming it hasn't done anything just to highlight your platform of choice. DS2 and KI: Season 2 are pretty good examples.
AngryNapkin
Banned
I thought they did 900p and 30fps with blurring for "realism"? I may be wrong but I know that game had some heat since it's really just 2 characters. It's not even a MKX or Injustice where they have backgrounds and what not which didn't make any sense to me tbh.
Journey
Banned
Where did you hear that rubbish? How can they go from 60fps to 30fps without screwing up frame animations and the overal fighting mechanics? and what's with the 2 character comment, Killer Instinct includes 8 characters per season for a total of 16 characters, with more to come.
fake edit: and did you really say KI doesn't really have backgrounds? You're just trolling now.
Edit: I had thought the comment was about KI 2013.
Terbinator
Member
Pretty sure he's talking about UFC.
Well that escalated quickly
Nice to see they got Maldonado in the game.
adamantypants
Member
I haven't been following this game like at all. Do they actually have F1 cars in it? My interest in it just shot up significantly if so.
Yeah, they have pretty much every imaginable car class in the game, including gokarts
Here's the class layout of the career mode:
And everything is open from the start, so you choose your own path.
From this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e7Dq7JRltQ
Rogue_element
Banned
Finally. My thoughts exactly
0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55
Banned
TOCA, Pro Race Driver was god tier on the PS2
I loved turning laps on Bathurst
I'm not doubting the effects the updated SDK has, but it's not really accurate by someone saying, "Hey, this SDK rocks, it got the game from 720p to 900p." It could also be re-coding everything.
And I'm not trying to flame the devs, but I think it should've been at least 900p/60 from the get-go. They launched the console with a racer at 1080p/60 (yes, cardboard crowd, etc.) and a fighter that's pushing less than 1/2 the pixels with the same fps. It just seems like they didn't even try to hit something higher than 720p to begin with.
And just for math's sake...
720p = 921,600 pixels.
900p = 1,440,000 pixels.
1080p = 2,073,600 pixels.
1080p - 900p = 633,600 pixels.
900p - 720p = 518,400 pixels.
Different between 900p to 1080p and 720p to 900p = 115,200 pixels (with 900p to 1080p being the larger difference).
But you are correct, it is almost just as much.
Where did you hear that rubbish? How can they go from 60fps to 30fps without screwing up frame animations and the overal fighting mechanics? and what's with the 2 character comment, Killer Instinct includes 8 characters per season for a total of 16 characters, with more to come.
fake edit: and did you really say KI doesn't really have backgrounds? You're just trolling now.
Maybe you ought to reread the commen. I don't think s/he's talking about KI.
Edit: beaten
People are apparently going to be disappointed when they play Project Cars and see the track-side crowds.
An hour ago, lol
Well at least project cars has dynamic lighting and weather.
I'm slow, ok
(open tab on my mobile)There's a mix of both. Like with trees. Full 3D crowd for a game like this is moronic. This is not a game with some fellows beside the track, it has whole stands full of people.
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