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Project CARS (crowdsourcing) racing sim by Slightly Mad Studios (fully funded 3.75M)

eso76

Member
Jun 25, 2004
14,913
67
1,615
44
As a general rule our car models have four LODs that are the same on both console and PC:

LODA 60k triangles
LODB 25/26k
LODC 4k
LODD 0.8k

on PC there is an extra LOD that we call "LODX" - this is enabled for the player car only when using the Ultra Setting for Vehicle Detail. LODX models are 200-300,000 triangles!

LOD switching is mostly driven by distance of the car from the camera, and is not dependent on the # of cars in a race.

Wow, wasn't even expecting a reply, let alone such a detailed one.
Thanks a lot, I love it when devs are transparent with the community.

Believe it or not, this just pushed me over the fence and sold me a copy :p

I think what SMSRenderTeam says in fact is not invalidating my screenshots. Real screenshots, by the way. They talk about real numbers but omitting another real numbers too in a kind of smoke screen that leaves all parties happy. Take a look a how he explains car LODs differences in his last message.

Just saw this.
What isn't clear about the LODs explanation ? They told me exactly what i wanted to know in a much greater detail than i had hoped for.
 

SMSRenderTeam

Neo Member
Apr 18, 2015
40
0
0
They talk about real numbers but omitting another real numbers too in a kind of smoke screen that leaves all parties happy. Take a look a how he explains car LODs differences in his last message.

Sorry, we're confused here. What exactly is wrong with the car LODs explanation?
We're more than happy to take more questions on Level of Detail if you genuinely believe there's some sort of conspiracy.
 

sueil

Member
Jun 7, 2012
1,337
0
0
So my fellow investors we are in the final days and soon the game will be here. Anyone expect to make any money at all? I only invested 60 euro or whatever was needed to be a full members and get the full game for free so I don't expect to get anything back really. 3 years ago I was just like hell yeah a good pc sim game that isn't crazy over the top like iracing or other stuff like that. If I get 5-10 dollars back I would be happy really.
 

Hedrush

Member
Nov 8, 2013
1,642
0
415
Have we heard anything about a Season Pass yet? I would like to see a SP akin to Driveclub where new tracks and cars are released monthly.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 18, 2012
14,311
3
0
Project CARS uses cascaded shadow maps (CSM) with the fixed sizes at the resolutions I outlined in the earlier post. Both cars and track/track side objects are rendered into the CSM resulting in a *single* cascaded map containing all world geometry - then in the light pre-pass keylight (the sun!) stage the opaque shadows are baked from this map. In such a system it is simply not possible to have different resolutions for cars and track shadows, so your statement here is just .. well ... impossible! (I'm pretty sure there are other render coders here who can verify that this is the case with CSM)

Since you are a community member at WMD you can use the -gold option and bring up the shadow maps via the f1 debug menu (deferred/sun shadow CSMs) and see for yourself the system as I describe.

It's a little disappointing that you don't post without more due diligence, since it's clear you have a talent for comparitive analysis, but it's also clear you aren't a graphics programmer... because of such a basic misunderstanding of how contemporary shadow systems work... leading you to such a basically flawed conclusion.


The differences in "edges" as you call them has nothing to do with resolution whatsoever. The edge artefacts you highlight are more generally known as Shadow acne which are a direct result of shadow bias settings with the differences being due to different settings.PS4 uses a higher precision map but at the same resolution as PC medium, so the bias settings are slightly different. It's pretty pointless trying to continually correct you since you're interpeting images without the knowledge set to describe what you are seeing. FWIW We'd much rather spend time here giving the community more technical details and answering some of your questions, rather than battling over myopic rendering comparisons...

The tone of these responses is leaving a bad impression with me. I understand how frustrating it can be if a third party is off-base on a comparison, but when the impression from like-for-like comparisons is being dismissed like this, the explanations provided here almost feel spurious, even if they're completely accurate in the technical sense. I'm the furthest thing from a visual snob, but I just wanted to share my outlook on the actual communications.
 

Megasoum

Banned
Aug 27, 2009
20,141
0
0
Montréal
So my fellow investors we are in the final days and soon the game will be here. Anyone expect to make any money at all? I only invested 60 euro or whatever was needed to be a full members and get the full game for free so I don't expect to get anything back really. 3 years ago I was just like hell yeah a good pc sim game that isn't crazy over the top like iracing or other stuff like that. If I get 5-10 dollars back I would be happy really.

Yeah same... I treat it as a 4 year old pre-order so anything I get back on top of it is gravy.
 

fresquito

Member
Apr 22, 2005
9,269
0
0
lfoclub.com
The tone of these responses is leaving a bad impression with me. I understand how frustrating it can be if a third party is off-base on a comparison, but when the impression from like-for-like comparisons is being dismissed like this, the explanations provided here almost feel spurious, even if they're completely accurate in the technical sense. I'm the furthest thing from a visual snob, but I just wanted to share my outlook on the actual communications.
Yeah, I'd rather have people claiming things like they know what they're talking about than a dev explaining us how things work...

This is beyond ridiculous. Someone is making asumtions, and the dev responsible for the job can't fight him back with data.That's not enough for you, it seems. He needs to do it like he's a machine and nobody is throwing shit at his work too.

Are we crazy calling on devs putting people in their place? He only proved how empty the claims of those "in the known" use to be, and how misleading they can be for the community and costumers as a whole, and you know what? I really appreaciate that he took the time to do it and I wish more devs did it.
 

Megasoum

Banned
Aug 27, 2009
20,141
0
0
Montréal
Yeah, I'd rather have people claiming things like they know what they're talking about than a dev explaining us how things work...

This is beyond ridiculous. Someone is making asumtions, and the dev responsible for the job can't fight him back with data.That's not enough for you, it seems. He needs to do it like he's a machine and nobody is throwing shit at his work too.

Are we crazy calling on devs putting people in their place? He only proved how empty the claims of those "in the known" use to be, and how misleading they can be for the community and costumers as a whole, and you know what? I really appreaciate that he took the time to do it and I wish more devs did it.

And after that people wonder why we don't have more devs that are super open about the developpement process... FFS
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 18, 2012
14,311
3
0
Yeah, I'd rather have people claiming things like they know what they're talking about than a dev explaining us how things work...

This is beyond ridiculous. Someone is making asumtions, and the dev responsible for the job can't fight him back with data.That's not enough for you, it seems. He needs to do it like he's a machine and nobody is throwing shit at his work too.

Are we crazy calling on devs putting people in their place? He only proved how empty the claims of those "in the known" use to be, and how misleading they can be for the community and costumers as a whole, and you know what? I really appreaciate that he took the time to do it and I wish more devs did it.

Someone posted carefully executed comparison images showing how the settings and platforms compared. The SMS person called out some labeling inaccuracies, which is good, but the substance of the comparison was still useful for people who wanted to know how they compared. The tone itself is another issue.
 

hurricanepilot

Neo Member
Jan 8, 2010
41
0
0
The tone of these responses is leaving a bad impression with me. I understand how frustrating it can be if a third party is off-base on a comparison, but when the impression from like-for-like comparisons is being dismissed like this, the explanations provided here almost feel spurious, even if they're completely accurate in the technical sense. I'm the furthest thing from a visual snob, but I just wanted to share my outlook on the actual communications.

It's not warming me to the rendering team that's for sure.

Very few people are graphics pipeline programmers, so for the vast majority of people what Maldo is showing us is infinitely more relevant than whatever technical excuse there is for it appearing that way.
 

Momentary

Banned
Jan 22, 2011
10,453
74
830
I hope everyone is checking out the VIP section at Green Man Gaming to pick this game up for $38.00 instead of $50.00 on Steam.



The list is..tiny...and only has 2-3 cars I really like...and is missing every single one of the cars on my "cars I love / own / will own" list. :(

Is it possible we'll get Corvette/Chevy and Ferrari eventually?

I'm sure they will. Especially if the game does very well. Plus this game isn't a "let's make a new one every year or so." I'm sure they are going to add to this game just like MOBAs add to their roster of characters. Really hoping to see the Berlinetta, Z06+Z07, Aston Martin Vulcan there one day. And since Hyper cars seem to want to get in on this, I hope to see the Laraki Epitome on there as well. For some Hyper Gran Touring goodness.
 

SMSRenderTeam

Neo Member
Apr 18, 2015
40
0
0
And after that people wonder why we don't have more devs that are super open about the developpement process... FFS

We've had a community of tens of thousands during the development over at WMD and that dev process is built on transparency and direct engagement with the forum members, so we are well accustomed to a very wide range of feedback!
 

MaLDo

Member
Jun 4, 2009
3,613
1
780
Barcelona
maldotex.blogspot.com
Yeah, I'd rather have people claiming things like they know what they're talking about than a dev explaining us how things work...

This is beyond ridiculous. Someone is making asumtions, and the dev responsible for the job can't fight him back with data.That's not enough for you, it seems. He needs to do it like he's a machine and nobody is throwing shit at his work too.

Are we crazy calling on devs putting people in their place? He only proved how empty the claims of those "in the known" use to be, and how misleading they can be for the community and costumers as a whole, and you know what? I really appreaciate that he took the time to do it and I wish more devs did it.


I think you could better take look back to all messages.

I pointed out AFx2 in a road mark with an arrow and SMSRenderTeam said is true, but only for marks and dirty decals. Tarmac uses AFx4.

I pointed out that cars shadows are inline with medium shadows on pc but surroundings shadows are more inline with low shadows on pc. SMSRenderTeam said that shadow resolutions in PS4 are exactly the same than medium shadows. BUT that number alone doesn't explain the differences we can clearly see in the screenshots. Then I said that for a same shadowmap resolution in a game with cascaded shadows you can change radius distance for every step and two situations can show very different results even with the same resolution because every next shadow step halves the previous step effective (visible) resolution. That wasn't an argument about this specific game, but a response to SMSRenderTeam explanations. Then he backpedaled talking about shadow bias differencies between platforms, making it clear that these differences in shadow detail (whatever the cause is) are real. And therefore, just saying the shadowmap main resolution don't bring enough information to do complete a fair comparison.

I pointed out that cars shadows vanish 3 or 4 meters in front of our car, and SMSRenderTeam has avoided comment on the right.

Someone asked SMSRenderTeam about the LOD differences for cars between platforms, and he answered by giving the numeric polygonal detail of each existing LOD. Of course all platforms share those numbers. But important ones, ie how far from the camera each version applies every LOD level, are obviously missing.

TLDR; I have not made any assumptions, only screenshots.
 

dedhead54

Member
Jun 12, 2005
1,025
0
0
ATL
I am SO torn between which version to get (Xbone or PS4). Nothing i've read yet makes my decision any easier, either. Seems both versions run great.
 

Megasoum

Banned
Aug 27, 2009
20,141
0
0
Montréal
We've had a community of tens of thousands during the development over at WMD and that dev process is built on transparency and direct engagement with the forum members, so we are well accustomed to a very wide range of feedback!

Oh I know... I've been on WMD since Oct 2011 lol.

I've seen some...stuff... over the years haha
 

Klocker

Member
Apr 1, 2006
8,143
0
1,285
Arizona
Someone posted carefully executed comparison images showing how the settings and platforms compared. The SMS person called out some labeling inaccuracies, which is good, but the substance of the comparison was still useful for people who wanted to know how they compared. The tone itself is another issue.

I think the tone you're sensing was after he politely corrected him and yet he continued to disagree with him rather than accept that he was being corrected by fact.

So frustration to that is what we are reading there afterward.
 

SMSRenderTeam

Neo Member
Apr 18, 2015
40
0
0
LOD base distances (as requested above)

LODA 7.0m
LODB 20.0m
LODC 50.0m
LODD 500.0m

So for example, a car 7.0 metres away from the camera will switch to LODB.

When the vehicle detail settings are set to High or Ultra the LOD switching distance is doubled from this baseline e.g. the game switches to LODB after 14.0 metres so it uses the higher resolution car model for double the distance!

Console uses the medium detail setting for LOD switching (e.g. the base values), but all other console vehicle detail settings are equivalent to PC high - for example, the rate at which reflection cube-maps are updated.

When set to the low vehicle detail setting on PC, LODA is dropped entirely - allowing the game to run with reduced detail with better performance on low-end systems.
 

MaLDo

Member
Jun 4, 2009
3,613
1
780
Barcelona
maldotex.blogspot.com
LOD base distances (as requested above)

LODA 7.0m
LODB 20.0m
LODC 50.0m
LODD 500.0m

So for example, a car 7.0 metres away from the camera will switch to LODB.

When the vehicle detail settings are set to High or Ultra the LOD switching distance is doubled from this baseline e.g. the game switches to LODB after 14.0 metres so it uses the higher resolution car model for double the distance!

Console uses the medium detail setting for LOD switching (e.g. the base values), but all other console vehicle detail settings are equivalent to PC high - for example, the rate at which reflection cube-maps are updated.

When set to the low vehicle detail setting on PC, LODA is dropped entirely - allowing the game to run with reduced detail with better performance on low-end systems.

Thank you so much for this.
 

SMSRenderTeam

Neo Member
Apr 18, 2015
40
0
0
Thank you so much for this.

No problem!

Off to the gym here now, but will back on-line for a few hours this evening. So folks are welcome to post up more questions about our rendering technology and I'll do my best to answer them later on.
 

Solal

Member
Dec 19, 2009
927
0
740
No problem!

Off to the gym here now, but will back on-line for a few hours this evening. So folks are welcome to post up more questions about our rendering technology and I'll do my best to answer them later on.

I think everyone here would like to know more about the framerate/tearing... Could you please give us an update?
 

Blizzard

Banned
Jan 23, 2008
36,025
0
0
First off thanks for the SMS technical detail. I know it does not matter to everyone, but I appreciate the time taken.

I also hope that we can all get past the initial frustrations and continue be polite with each other. :)

1. The base track layer e.g. The Tarmac!
2. The road markings e.g. White lines
3. Dirt layer / tyre marks

And since they are separate passes it's possible for each layer to have different Anisotropy settings - 4x, 4x, 2x respectively, with white lines being up'd to 8x subsequently.
Thx for posting again.
That is a crazy amount of manual tuning just to get performance in place for AF. Obviously your team find the performance gains generated by this to be worth the time, effort, and IQ loss on individual pieces.

What exactly is making AF so expensive that you cannot just leave it at 8x (all texture surfaces) for the consoles?
Regarding posting more questions, I am also curious about Dictator93's question. Did 8x AF for all texture surfaces have a significant performance hit on consoles, if you are allowed to say? I think the question there is because AF usually "seems", as a player, to have very little performance impact from 2x to 4x to 8x.
 

exmachina64

Banned
Dec 15, 2011
12,324
0
0
Someone posted carefully executed comparison images showing how the settings and platforms compared. The SMS person called out some labeling inaccuracies, which is good, but the substance of the comparison was still useful for people who wanted to know how they compared. The tone itself is another issue.

It was useful to the extent that it reduced the subject being compared to a "bite-sized" format. In Maldo's original comparison, the reader would be left with the (wrong) impression that PS4 is utilizing AF 2x instead of the more complex system SMS is using.

It's not warming me to the rendering team that's for sure.

Very few people are graphics pipeline programmers, so for the vast majority of people what Maldo is showing us is infinitely more relevant than whatever technical excuse there is for it appearing that way.

With all due respect to Maldo, comparing screenshots of various PC quality settings and the PS4 under similar conditions can produce results that aren't necessarily true even if they appear to be visually.

Is it "infinitely more relevant" in the sense that uninformed individuals can enter the thread, look at the screenshot comparison, and come away with a conclusion that may not be true? Of course, but the rendering team's technical explanation can help one understand why the images in Maldo's comparison appear the way they do.

To say that an explanation more accessible to the layperson is more valuable by virtue of its accessibility is a flawed conclusion. Many technical systems are involved in creating the (moving) image produced; distilling those aspects into a static image comparison as Maldo has done causes nuance to be lost.

In Maldo's AF comparison, he highlighted what he believed to be an AF setting of 2x. The rendering team explained the various separate levels of AF applied in producing the PS4's image.

Quoted here:
I think the key piece of knowledge that is missing in the various analysis about the track anisotropy is that they all consider the track to be a single textured piece of geometry.

This is not the case - the track is rendered in three passes:

1. The base track layer e.g. The Tarmac!
2. The road markings e.g. White lines
3. Dirt layer / tyre marks

And since they are separate passes it's possible for each layer to have different Anisotropy settings - 4x, 4x, 2x respectively, with white lines being up'd to 8x subsequently.

While Maldo admitted the rendering team's explanation was plausible, attempting to reduce image quality comparisons to a series of static images (especially before release) is what promotes this misunderstanding.

By now the PS4 AF situation has become a meme on GAF, how many occasions where developers are castigated for using AF 2x, 4x or no apparent AF are similar to this situation but they can't discuss it? That doesn't stop laypeople from coming in and shitting on developers.

Treating developers like this when they attempt to explain these things to you and ignoring what they say as an excuse is why more developers aren't more open and transparent to the community. This is the reason why publishers aren't transparent and only release "bullshots."

As I was typing this, SMS Rendering Team answered Maldo's lingering LOD distance question and Maldo found their response satisfactory. In the future, can we try to give people the benefit of the doubt before accusing them of avoiding the question?
 

Liquidsnake

Banned
May 5, 2011
17,130
0
0
It looks more then fantastic on consoles, especially with 60fps with most advanced car physics on consoles. I personally wouldn't trade the luxury of better graphics compared to how fast i can start to play it on PS4, with limited time to play (wife and kid). In about 8 sec, with suspend and resume mode, I can be in the game :).
I guess gamers forgot that it's gameplay that counts, not graphics, regardless of system one uses to play.

I think the reason it bothers me so much, is because I know our consoles while not powerful, have potential to do better. Sometimes I fell like we are still stuck in last gen, and its closing in on 2 years since launch.
I see games that look incredible, and then I see games I know were not developed for current gen.
 

Dzidza1978

Member
Oct 2, 2010
311
0
620
It will only get better, as the teams are more familiar with the hardware. The improvement between ps3 and ps4 is large, e.g. gta5. Watching it side by side in action shows the improvement, and its only ported to current gen. 2 years isnt enough IMHO, for significant improvement.
 

seattle6418

Member
Nov 21, 2006
4,131
0
0
38
brazil
The only thing that matters really is the handling and, well the framerate as well. Other than that I don't really mind.

Sometimes i´m think i´m crazy, but i´m used to the simracing crowd and we´re still playing ugly mods on rFactor, decade old RBR, cheap looking Game Stock Car and stuff... the last thing we are worried are the graphics... we´ve all seen the videos, it´s so bizarre to see people debating 2x this, 8x that and a bunch of tech talk that i´m not afraid to say i have no idea what they are saying.

The biggest difference between the PS4 version and PC, to me is 32 players online and individual car leaderboards. That´s what will make me double dip. It´s just weird to see so much graphical talk about a game that has 1000 other more important things to be discussed.
 

GenericUser

Member
Jul 27, 2009
4,071
3,238
1,310
please excuse my bad english
The biggest difference between the PS4 version and PC, to me is 32 players online and individual car leaderboards. That´s what will make me double dip. It´s just weird to see so much graphical talk about a game that has 1000 other more important things to be discussed.

I'm not so much into online racing but leaderboards are itneresting for me. Any information on what kind of leaderboards are included in the ps4 version?
 

SMSRenderTeam

Neo Member
Apr 18, 2015
40
0
0
First off thanks for the SMS technical detail. I know it does not matter to everyone, but I appreciate the time taken.

I also hope that we can all get past the initial frustrations and continue be polite with each other. :)

Regarding posting more questions, I am also curious about Dictator93's question. Did 8x AF for all texture surfaces have a significant performance hit on consoles, if you are allowed to say? I think the question there is because AF usually "seems", as a player, to have very little performance impact from 2x to 4x to 8x.

I can't answer this precisely because of 1st party NDAs. We have a render team saying though, stolen from Tesco (a British super market chain for those outside of the UK).

"Every Little Helps"

:)

And that's the thing - when you are making a 60FPS game lots of small optimisations can add up to a significant win. 7 individual items that might add up to a 5% overall speed-up is a lot of engineering effort, but when you only have 16.67ms to render a frame that's what you have to do. Keep grinding, keep pushing for every small win.
 

_machine

Member
Oct 12, 2011
2,974
0
0
Germany
And that's the thing - when you are making a 60FPS game lots of small optimisations can add up to a significant win. 7 individual items that might add up to a 5% overall speed-up is a lot of engineering effort, but when you only have 16.67ms to render a frame that's what you have to do. Keep grinding, keep pushing for every small win.
Since it was already touched over on WMD briefly, can you explain the V-Sync 'window mode'? It sounds very interesting, especially after I had brief issues with V-Sync causing some input issues when I worked on one of the consoles (we managed to fix it in the end, and we were using middleware)?
 

ReDelicious

Member
Mar 19, 2013
556
0
390


The list is..tiny...and only has 2-3 cars I really like...and is missing every single one of the cars on my "cars I love / own / will own" list. :(

Is it possible we'll get Corvette/Chevy and Ferrari eventually?

I noticed the lack of Ferrari as well and tried looking into it a while back. I believe it's mainly due to licensing costs for Ferrari being astronomical along with Ferrari not wanting to "play ball." (I want to say that was an actual dev response but I'm not 100% on that) It's a real shame too for a an actual sim racing game to be missing such a heavy hitter. Plenty of other cars I like on the list but man I do love my Ferraris.
 

SMSRenderTeam

Neo Member
Apr 18, 2015
40
0
0
Since it was already touched over on WMD briefly, can you explain the V-Sync 'window mode'? It sounds very interesting, especially after I had brief issues with V-Sync causing some input issues when I worked on one of the consoles (we managed to fix it in the end, and we were using middleware)?

It's a 1st party proprietary feature, so unfortunately it's another case of NDAs preventing us giving more details :(
 

Blizzard

Banned
Jan 23, 2008
36,025
0
0
Just in case anyone doubts the NDA thing, I've had the same sort of experience with a Wii U NDA on my own. I'm not allowed to talk about the devkit, API, development environment, and so forth as far as I know. I assume it's rather standard for NDAs to be like that for console or handheld development.
 

shandy706

Member
May 3, 2011
15,994
5
0
Clemson Tiger Country
I noticed the lack of Ferrari as well and tried looking into it a while back. I believe it's mainly due to licensing costs for Ferrari being astronomical along with Ferrari not wanting to "play ball." (I want to say that was an actual dev response but I'm not 100% on that) It's a real shame too for a an actual sim racing game to be missing such a heavy hitter. Plenty of other cars I like on the list but man I do love my Ferraris.

:(

There are 3 cars I always lean towards first....Ferrari is one, Ford is one (thankfully in), and Chevy's Corvettes (multiple years). I've owned both Mustangs and Corvettes. One day I hope to buy a Ferrari...so having them in "sims" is something I look forward to.
 

ReDelicious

Member
Mar 19, 2013
556
0
390
:(

There are 3 cars I always lean towards first....Ferrari is one, Ford is one (thankfully in), and Chevy's Corvettes (multiple years). I've owned both Mustangs and Corvettes. One day I hope to buy a Ferrari...so having them in "sims" is something I look forward to.

We can only hope the situation changes in the future. Not holding my breath though. :/ I Though I think there may be more hope for Chevrolet appearing at least.
 

fresquito

Member
Apr 22, 2005
9,269
0
0
lfoclub.com
:(

There are 3 cars I always lean towards first....Ferrari is one, Ford is one (thankfully in), and Chevy's Corvettes (multiple years). I've owned both Mustangs and Corvettes. One day I hope to buy a Ferrari...so having them in "sims" is something I look forward to.
There're two Ford Mustang in the gane: Boss 302R1 and Cobra TransAm. Add five other Fords: Escort Mk1RS1600, Focus RS, MkIV, Sierra RS500 Cosworth and Zackspeed Capri.
 

MaLDo

Member
Jun 4, 2009
3,613
1
780
Barcelona
maldotex.blogspot.com
It was useful to the extent that it reduced the subject being compared to a "bite-sized" format. In Maldo's original comparison, the reader would be left with the (wrong) impression that PS4 is utilizing AF 2x instead of the more complex system SMS is using.



With all due respect to Maldo, comparing screenshots of various PC quality settings and the PS4 under similar conditions can produce results that aren't necessarily true even if they appear to be visually.

Is it "infinitely more relevant" in the sense that uninformed individuals can enter the thread, look at the screenshot comparison, and come away with a conclusion that may not be true? Of course, but the rendering team's technical explanation can help one understand why the images in Maldo's comparison appear the way they do.

To say that an explanation more accessible to the layperson is more valuable by virtue of its accessibility is a flawed conclusion. Many technical systems are involved in creating the (moving) image produced; distilling those aspects into a static image comparison as Maldo has done causes nuance to be lost.

In Maldo's AF comparison, he highlighted what he believed to be an AF setting of 2x. The rendering team explained the various separate levels of AF applied in producing the PS4's image.

Quoted here:


While Maldo admitted the rendering team's explanation was plausible, attempting to reduce image quality comparisons to a series of static images (especially before release) is what promotes this misunderstanding.

By now the PS4 AF situation has become a meme on GAF, how many occasions where developers are castigated for using AF 2x, 4x or no apparent AF are similar to this situation but they can't discuss it? That doesn't stop laypeople from coming in and shitting on developers.

Treating developers like this when they attempt to explain these things to you and ignoring what they say as an excuse is why more developers aren't more open and transparent to the community. This is the reason why publishers aren't transparent and only release "bullshots."

As I was typing this, SMS Rendering Team answered Maldo's lingering LOD distance question and Maldo found their response satisfactory. In the future, can we try to give people the benefit of the doubt before accusing them of avoiding the question?


That's a bit unfair. First of all, as I said again, my AF comparisson uses an arrow pointing a tire mark. The video compression makes impossible a more precise comparisson. It's impossible to argue that's a comparisson that can be used to make an overall perspective of the AF of the game. As I see it, even if that tire mark decal is the only texture in the game that uses level 2 of anisotropic filtering, the info showed in the screenshot is valid, as it's what we have for now. I can't deny the level of detail in dev explanations are far more important, especially as a starting point for new questions. A question for you would be: do you think that the developer would have appeared here with such insightful information without those previous comparative screenshots?

About how correct and sufficient the dev explanations are, if someone read where SMSRenderTeam talks about shadow resolution, he could come away with the false assumption that shadows in PS4 will be exactly as medium settings on PC (and even with more precision). But real screenshots show a total different history, argued later as a different bias setting after I was a bit tiresome showing the screenshots again.

I've always used the word "SEEMS" and I have always talked about what you see in the screenshots. If I had the PS4 version, comparisons could have been more detailed. What I have not done in any case is telling lies.

A bit of "discussion" is always the best way to get devs info. Only reading PR info is half of the history.
 

fresquito

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So what's your point here? You compare direct feed screenshots to rendered captures? Then tell it SEEMS this or SEEMS that and still have the guts to position yourself like some kind of white knight that stands in front of the PR info to make real truth prevail? A member of the SMS Render Staff comes and explains in detail what they have been doing and you can only label that as PR info? Really?

You know what? I think you don't have any kind of respect for the labor of the people that create videogames. I do, and that's why I find so baffling that you dare to say such nonsense and then try to come as something you clearly are not. You have only created some controversy based on flawed proofs, and even though you knew they were flawed, you still did your show to prove... what?

Like someone said, it's no wonder not many high profile devs visit public forums.