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Project CARS (crowdsourcing) racing sim by Slightly Mad Studios (fully funded 3.75M)

C

CouchMaster

Member
Tactica said:
All stills and cinematic trailers of this game look amazing, but I'm dissapointed by the actual gameplay graphics. It's hi-res and great models, but it really lacks some realism. It is so clean and sterile, compared to Driveclub, which is really stunning. Might be that real life tracks are that boring to look at, but still.
Click to expand...

Real life race tracks are boring to look at but they're extremely fun to drive on and master nonetheless (unless you're talking about newer F1 tracks).
 
S

Spookie

Member
srst said:
My attempt to make a custom livery. Pretty time consuming is all I can say!
Click to expand...

Well that's possibly the most hideous RL livery I've every seen.

Ok maybe that hello kitty one wins, thankfully that car went in to a wall where it deserves.
 
M

_machine

Member
Response on the ghosting issues seen on the PS4 version:
It's not a bug. It's a side effect of the way we do AA on PS4, and is arguably a good thing (hear me out!). It's there, and very noticeable from static images of non-direct feed footage especially, but also undeniably in the game itself (mainly when paused). I spotted it and reported it as soon as it got checked in long ago (so we didn't "miss it" as many would have you believe).

However, I also "spotted" that the PS4 version has really lovely image quality, a very smooth and slightly soft (not low res!), "non-gamey" look, which is very natural, and (imo!) rather fantastic, due to this very clever AA approach. It also greatly minimises the distant "shimmer" you often see in console racing games, which is a side effect of low quality AA on thin vertical objects such as fences.

So yes, the ghosting effect is there, if you look hard enough. The advantages far outweigh this small disadvantage however. Notwithstanding that, if customer feedback demands it, we have a plan to add a UI slider in a future update, which will enable you to tune out the ghosting, at the expense of more aliasing and distant shimmer.
Click to expand...
Fwiw, I agree with him; Temporal AA for me is well worth small ghosting effect, which I don't find especially jarring on the titles I've seen, but of course it's a preference thing and a toggle for it wouldn't be too bad.
 
D

Dzidza1978

Member
_machine said:
Response on the ghosting issues seen on the PS4 version:

Fwiw, I agree with him; Temporal AA for me is well worth small ghosting effect, which I don't find especially jarring on the titles I've seen, but of course it's a preference thing and a toggle for it wouldn't be too bad.
Click to expand...

Just about to post that :)
 
F

flipswitch

Member
_machine said:
Response on the ghosting issues seen on the PS4 version:

Fwiw, I agree with him; Temporal AA for me is well worth small ghosting effect, which I don't find especially jarring on the titles I've seen, but of course it's a preference thing and a toggle for it wouldn't be too bad.
Click to expand...

So PS4/XB1 are using different AA methods?
 
F

|FeZZa|

Neo Member
Based on what I've seen so far, the PS4 version does seem to have smoother motion than the xbone footage (could be because old build). But will judge for myself when I play it if it's an issue or not.

Having a slider should also be handy for those that don't like it to dial it down, so everyone should (theoretically) win at the end ;)
 
M

MaLDo

Member
_machine said:
Response on the ghosting issues seen on the PS4 version:

Fwiw, I agree with him; Temporal AA for me is well worth small ghosting effect, which I don't find especially jarring on the titles I've seen, but of course it's a preference thing and a toggle for it wouldn't be too bad.
Click to expand...

But SMSRenderTeam said it was motion blur, right?
 
F

flipswitch

Member
_machine said:
Why? If anything it seems like something that most people don't notice and it's not like games that have shipped with similar AA have had major issues with the general public.


Yes
Click to expand...
I'm confused. XB1 and PS4 have the same AA solution, but the ps4 version has ghosting.


http://wccftech.com/project-cars-ps4-car-detail-equivalent-high-pc-eqaa-details-pc-version/


Slightly Mad Studios have revealed some new information on the PlayStation 4 version of Project CARS and how it compares to the PC version of the game. Just like the Xbox One version, the PlayStation 4 version uses EQAA for its anti-aliasing solution. The shadow detail is between medium to high equivalent PC s
Click to expand...
 
C

Conduit

Banned
_machine said:
Response on the ghosting issues seen on the PS4 version:

Fwiw, I agree with him; Temporal AA for me is well worth small ghosting effect, which I don't find especially jarring on the titles I've seen, but of course it's a preference thing and a toggle for it wouldn't be too bad.
Click to expand...

SMS did it on purpose? Well, interesting.:D
 
M

_machine

Member
Conduit said:
SMS did it on purpose? Well, interesting.:D
Click to expand...
This isn't the first game with Temporal AA though, Halo: Reach for example had similar issues with the AA, but on the other hand the IQ in general was pretty good. Same goes for most upcoming UE4 games, TXAA is pretty much the only proper way of doing AA inside UE4 (FXAA is an alternative, but some of the reflection stuff is inside the TXAA rendering so you will lose reflection detail then) and it does same similar ghosting issues. I haven't seen many complain about those issues though, but it's definitely a compromise developers have to make and it'll most likely become a bit more common in the future.
 
E

elfinke

Member
le-seb said:
Could you please guys stop butchering this track's name and location?
The track is named Circuit de la Sarthe, and the city is named Le Mans (like in Losangeles or Sanfranscisco ;).)
Click to expand...

Blame auto correct and hastily written mobile messages.

_machine said:
Response on the ghosting issues seen on the PS4 version:

Fwiw, I agree with him; Temporal AA for me is well worth small ghosting effect, which I don't find especially jarring on the titles I've seen, but of course it's a preference thing and a toggle for it wouldn't be too bad.
Click to expand...

Perfect dev response, really. Acknowledge there is an issue, explain why it exists and their reasoning for it, offer an opening for feedback in the alternative for a possible solution. Well done.
 
M

Mascot

Member
_machine said:
Response on the ghosting issues seen on the PS4 version:

Fwiw, I agree with him; Temporal AA for me is well worth small ghosting effect, which I don't find especially jarring on the titles I've seen, but of course it's a preference thing and a toggle for it wouldn't be too bad.
Click to expand...

I class myself as ultra-sensitive to graphical issues and I'd never noticed this 'ghosting' issue at all during motion in ANY of the direct-feed 60fps PS4 videos, even the Gamersyde ones.

Sure, if you pause the game or make ultra-slomo GIFs then you can notice it, but during normal gameplay? Not in my eyes.

I've been biting my tongue about this but I do feel it's been blown out of all proportion and is giving potential purchasers unnecessary cause for concern.
 
D

danowat

Banned
Mascot said:
I class myself as ultra-sensitive to graphical issues and I'd never noticed this 'ghosting' issue at all during motion in ANY of the direct-feed 60fps PS4 videos, even the Gamersyde ones.

Sure, if you pause the game or make ultra-slomo GIFs then you can notice it, but during normal gameplay? Not in my eyes.

I've been biting my tongue about this but I do feel it's been blown out of all proportion and is giving potential purchasers unnecessary cause for concern.
Click to expand...

You really have to be looking for it to notice it, but it is there, personally, you'd have to be really, really sensitive, and/or looking for issues for it to be a big problem (IMO).

Now, whether it's there or not in the XBO version, or if it's their in the release version of the PS4 port, with the D1P is another matter entirely.
 
C

Cuyejo

Member
Mascot said:
I class myself as ultra-sensitive to graphical issues and I'd never noticed this 'ghosting' issue at all during motion in ANY of the direct-feed 60fps PS4 videos, even the Gamersyde ones.

Sure, if you pause the game or make ultra-slomo GIFs then you can notice it, but during normal gameplay? Not in my eyes.

I've been biting my tongue about this but I do feel it's been blown out of all proportion and is giving potential purchasers unnecessary cause for concern.
Click to expand...

Looking from the Gamersyde videos the ghosting is VERY apparent almost to the point that the game doesn't feel like it's running at 60 fps, that's my opinion of course, but people (among them experts in the field) at Beyond3d are finding the effect jarring too. It just doesn't look right, and I'd rather have a no ghosting image and 4X MSAA ala GT5, plus no motion blur nor any DoF, I don't feel like those effects belong in a racing sim, a genre in which image clarity and 60 fps has always reigned.
If IT is as a result of the temporal AA solution they are using, then I must say that's some of the most artifacting resulting appliance of the tech I've seen so far this gen, there have lots of advancement on TAA solutions these days...
Sony has their own solution as demonstrated on Driveclub and Killzone SF, none of them has ghosting as prominent, but it breaks on static scenes, Ubi has their HRAA, while it has artifacts too, again those are not as bad and mantains static scenes anti aliased too, Epic's UE4 custom temporal AA solution is still the best though IMO, because they minimize the ghosting a lot while working on static scenes too.
 
B

bombshell

Member
Mascot said:
I class myself as ultra-sensitive to graphical issues and I'd never noticed this 'ghosting' issue at all during motion in ANY of the direct-feed 60fps PS4 videos, even the Gamersyde ones.

Sure, if you pause the game or make ultra-slomo GIFs then you can notice it, but during normal gameplay? Not in my eyes.

I've been biting my tongue about this but I do feel it's been blown out of all proportion and is giving potential purchasers unnecessary cause for concern.
Click to expand...

That's the beauty of temporal AA. It's really not noticable when you are playing the game and it has some tangible benefits for the game in motion, as explained in that forum post.
 
H

hesido

Member
_machine said:
This isn't the first game with Temporal AA though, Halo: Reach for example had similar issues with the AA, but on the other hand the IQ in general was pretty good. Same goes for most upcoming UE4 games, TXAA is pretty much the only proper way of doing AA inside UE4 (FXAA is an alternative, but some of the reflection stuff is inside the TXAA rendering so you will lose reflection detail then) and it does same similar ghosting issues. I haven't seen many complain about those issues though, but it's definitely a compromise developers have to make and it'll most likely become a bit more common in the future.
Click to expand...

Oh God.. Please no.. At least not like how P.Cars do it... There are good temporal AA solutions out there with minimal artifacting and the one (IF at all) P.Cars is using is not good.. Not good at all.

The game uses EQAA and I don't think typically has a temporal component. Why did they add it is beyond me.

If this is indeed a temporal anti alias artifact, it's one of the worst implementations, because it's not doing anything other than blindly blending two frames.

bombshell said:
That's the beauty of temporal AA. It's really not noticable when you are playing the game and it has some tangible benefits for the game in motion, as explained in that forum post.
Click to expand...

If you want a good temporal AA, to use information from previous frames for anti aliasing, you have to do some processing to decide whether to use that information. Sure, temporal AA may have artifacts but on P.Cars it's not at a level that's acceptable -to me-. General populace seems to like it and I'm at a loss for words. All those times graphics programmers were refining their anti alias solutions for nothing, it seems, because blending previous frames with the current one seems to be doing just fine?!

Continuously blending two frames with 0 pre-processing is what P.Cars seems to be doing, if it's doing any other computations than that it's wasting its time. Because people don't notice those details.
 
S

Spookie

Member
Fortinbras said:
Maybe he understood and still doesn't like the ghosting effect.
Click to expand...

You know it just really rubs me up the wrong way when people say: It's not a bug, it's a feature.

Fuck off, you expect that shit out of publishers & PR. Developers should hold themselves to a higher standard.
 
H

hesido

Member
Spookie said:
You know it just really rubs me up the wrong way when people say: It's not a bug, it's a feature.

Fuck off, you expect that shit out of publishers & PR. Developers should hold themselves to a higher standard.
Click to expand...

Oh.. Don't ruin our cause, man.
 
P

Princess Carl

Member
Hey guys, just preordered the game on PC, can't fuckin wait. Wreckfest is fun as hell but the population is desolate since Bugbear abandoned the game.

So many tracks, these guys know just what I like.
 
J

Juicy Bob

Member
I remember playing Formula 1 '97 on PSX to death back in the day. That game had terrible draw distance, but I still loved everything about it and it was probably the most fun I ever had with a racing game.

To be honest, looking at the quality of graphics we're fortunate to have in 2015, a little bit of ghosting really doesn't put me off.
 
A

Azzawon

Member
Had a look at the pCARS game page on my XB1 last night and noticed that it said "DUE TO RELEASE 06/05/2015"

I am so confused. In the UK too, so the official release should be the 8th, but apparently digital should unlock on the 7th. I'm at work atm so can't show a picture but does anyone else see the same thing?
 
S

sueil

Member
It's seemed like people have an axe to grind with this game for years now. People that say they can judge it's handling without ever playing it. Or say it's bugged after playing a 8 month old pirated version. Yeah the ps4 thing looks bad in still shots or slow mo. I can't see it in motion though even when looking for it. I'm just getting really sick of people bad talking the game without ever having played it. I was just reading an car sim forum and everyone was ready to hate the game based rumor and hearsay. If the ghosting issue prevents you from buying it for ps4 then okay. I think too much is being made of a small thing though.
 
F

Fallout-NL

Member
Juicy Bob said:
I remember playing Formula 1 '97 on PSX to death back in the day. That game had terrible draw distance, but I still loved everything about it and it was probably the most fun I ever had with a racing game.

To be honest, looking at the quality of graphics we're fortunate to have in 2015, a little bit of ghosting really doesn't put me off.
Click to expand...


Fuck yeah, that game was excellent. Interlagos <3.
 
M

Mogwai

Member
Azzawon said:
Had a look at the pCARS game page on my XB1 last night and noticed that it said "DUE TO RELEASE 06/05/2015"

I am so confused. In the UK too, so the official release should be the 8th, but apparently digital should unlock on the 7th. I'm at work atm so can't show a picture but does anyone else see the same thing?
Click to expand...

I'm wondering about the PC version too. I've bought it through Greenmangaming and they say 8th. But my Steam tells me that it's available the 7th...
 
M

Mase Gumble

Member
Azzawon said:
Had a look at the pCARS game page on my XB1 last night and noticed that it said "DUE TO RELEASE 06/05/2015"

I am so confused. In the UK too, so the official release should be the 8th, but apparently digital should unlock on the 7th. I'm at work atm so can't show a picture but does anyone else see the same thing?
Click to expand...
Digital version is releasing at the same time in the UK as it is in Europe so it will probably unlock at 11pm.
 
D

danowat

Banned
Azzawon said:
Had a look at the pCARS game page on my XB1 last night and noticed that it said "DUE TO RELEASE 06/05/2015"

I am so confused. In the UK too, so the official release should be the 8th, but apparently digital should unlock on the 7th. I'm at work atm so can't show a picture but does anyone else see the same thing?
Click to expand...

It's not confusing.

The physical UK release was pushed to Friday due to the bank holiday and how that affects physical shipping logistics.

The digital version has no shipping logistics, hence releasing the same time as the EU version.

The reason your store says the 6th and not the 7th (like the rest of the EU) is because they are 1 hour ahead of us (GMT+2, not GMT+1) so we get it at 11pm on the 6th, not 12am on the 7th.

Make sense?
 
A

Azzawon

Member
danowat said:
It's not confusing.

The physical UK release was pushed to Friday due to the bank holiday and how that affects physical shipping logistics.

The digital version has no shipping logistics, hence releasing the same time as the EU version.

The reason your store says the 6th and not the 7th (like the rest of the EU) is because they are 1 hour ahead of us (GMT+2, not GMT+1) so we get it at 11pm on the 6th, not 12am on the 7th.

Make sense?
Click to expand...

Okay, now I get it haha! Always forget that we're in BST now. I'm aware of the physical and digital difference but when I saw the 6th I was like "wait what" hahaha
 
D

danowat

Banned
Azzawon said:
Okay, now I get it haha! Always forget that we're in BST now. I'm aware of the physical and digital difference but when I saw the 6th I was like "wait what" hahaha
Click to expand...

Yeah, I imagine we are just bundled in with the rest of the EU, rather than have a separate "on switch" for the UK content, we just go live when EU does,probably not worth bothering with another "on switch" for the sake of an hour.
 
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