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Project Morpheus E3 2015

When Shu says 'dangerous' in regards to Summer Lesson it confuses me. What exactly is he implying?

 

DavidDesu

Member
Birth rates further declining. People locking themselves with Morpheus never to emerge again. TRUE VIRTUAL REALITY.

Ahh can we get your impressions please? (or link if posted elsewhere?)

I'm buying Morpheus day one and I'm a big evangelist for VR in general, yet I've still not experienced it properly, other than 5 minutes sat in a DK1 rollercoaster demo where the gyros were drifting meaning it was next to pointless. I'd love to know just what to expect, mainly in terms of what it looks like in the headset vs the Summer Lesson YT video..
 
IS there a good place with focused coverage of the HMD's at E3?

Something like Tested. But i've seen most of their coverage and last time i checked there wasn't much for MOrpheus at this E3.
 
That's the interview I'm talking about, and no, that's not what they say. You are interpreting the comment in a way I don't understand. Clearly Norm felt the screendoor was much less of an issue on the Rift, enough to say he couldn't notice it. Will only clarifies that the screendoor effect still exists on the Rift. At no point is it said it is 'just as bad' or 'equally noticeable'. That is you putting words into their mouth.
At 6:36, Will was saying Morpheus' optics are "really nice," because of the "big, fat sweet spot," and asked Norm if he wore it with his glasses.

Norm: I did wear them with my glasses on.
Will: How was that?
Norm: Big sweet spot… I don't think they're using Frenel lenses, because you could still see the screen door effect.
Will: I could see that on Oculus though too.
Norm: *rocks side to side* It was a different look.
Will: Yeah, these look like square pixels.
Norm: It's an LCD, I think.

Sounds like Norm is trying to make the case that screen door is worse on Morpheus, and Will feels like he doesn't have much of a case. Plus, he doesn't understand that OLED panels can be full RGB.

I didn't say they didn't exist at all. But the ones Sony would need for Morpheus might not.

And I have no idea. Which is why I asked the question, obviously. You just happened to answer that they did and I asked for a source for which you had none whatsoever...
So you're just concerned. Got it.
 

Circinus

Member
RIGS: Mechanized Combat League, EVE: Valkyrie and The London Heist look really fun.

Never tried a VR HMD (would very much like to do so), but I'm very interested in VR.


The coverage of VR (both for Morpheus and Oculus Rift) seemed really bad this E3 from the big games media outlets? I didn't see a preview on RIGS or Edge of Nowhere from IGN, Gamespot etc, despite hearing great impressions about these two games on other sites.

Also, I have no idea why SCE went over Morpheus so quickly in their E3 media briefing. It's one of the most (if not, the most) interesting emergent 'platform' in the games industry and SCE seems to have made a very fine VR HMD with a decent amount of games for it already (~40 games confirmed already for Morpheus?). Obviously experiencing VR is not the same thing as watching gameplay from a game compatible with Morpheus VR, but obviously I'd still prefer to see a trailer and/or gameplay footage to imagine what it could be like in VR rather than having nothing at all.. Especially if journalists aren't really covering the VR games properly.

Seems like they don't really have an idea how to market it.

And this:
RIGS trailer

is not how VR should be marketed at all. (showing people with transparant HMD's). It looks like a great game, but that is an obnoxious trailer imho. I'd like to see gameplay instead of seeing faces, you know. ;)

IS there a good place with focused coverage of the HMD's at E3?

Something like Tested. But i've seen most of their coverage and last time i checked there wasn't much for MOrpheus at this E3.

VRFocus or RoadtoVR.
 
Also, I have no idea why SCE went over Morpheus so quickly in their E3 media briefing. It's one of the most (if not, the most) interesting emergent 'platform' in the games industry and SCE seems to have made a very fine VR HMD with a decent amount of games for it already (~40 games confirmed already for Morpheus?). Obviously experiencing VR is not the same thing as watching gameplay from a game compatible with Morpheus VR, but obviously I'd still prefer to see a trailer and/or gameplay footage to imagine what it could be like in VR rather than having nothing at all.. Especially if journalists aren't really covering the VR games properly.
They did the wise thing by not focusing on it in the press conference. There's probably another E3 left for Morpheus. BUt mainly because is not something that's easy or practical to convey withotuh a person having actual first hand experience with the device. Just look how hard it was for the Oculus presenter to explain the concept behind VR in the last conference.
VRFocus or RoadtoVR.
Thanks, i' ve seen roadtoVR but not the other one.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8FiJyMWwF0

I personally have not been interested in the sudden VR craze that is sweeping the industry. I purposely did not attempt to try out Project Morpheus at E3 or Tokyo Game Show last year but at this year's E3 I decided to jump in and see if it was worth it. The PlayStation Booth had several VR titles on display so I decided to first test out Killzone developer Guerrilla Games offering: Rigs. I never made it to the other Morpheus games as I played Rigs over and over again. I was more impressed than I could have ever imagined.

I will admit that I was not initially blown away by looking at the game playing on the TV screen although I did look like fun. Once the VR helmet was on it was another story entirely. No trailer can convey just how "in the game" you are while using Project Morpheus. Between matches I found myself looking around in all directions and staring down at may digital arms and legs in the cockpit. I actually felt a rush being launched up into the arena from the hanger below and each time I did a double jump.

If every other title can even come close to the fun and immersion that Rigs delivers, then Project Morpheus will truly be something special when it is released next year.


http://www.playstationhaven.com/e3news/e3-2015-hands-on-with-rigs-on-project-morpheus
 

Nikodemos

Member
I will admit that I was not initially blown away by looking at the game playing on the TV screen although I did look like fun. Once the VR helmet was on it was another story entirely. No trailer can convey just how "in the game" you are while using Project Morpheus. Between matches I found myself looking around in all directions and staring down at may digital arms and legs in the cockpit. I actually felt a rush being launched up into the arena from the hanger below and each time I did a double jump.
Which is pretty much what every dev and PR person for VR companies has repeatedly stated. It's practically/technically impossible to showcase VR on a regular screen. You really need to be 'there' to understand it, and see whether you actually like it or not. Forming an opinion without first experiencing isn't just bad judgment, it's actively wrong.
 

Circinus

Member
Which is pretty much what every dev and PR person for VR companies has repeatedly stated. It's practically/technically impossible to showcase VR on a regular screen. You really need to be 'there' to understand it, and see whether you actually like it or not. Forming an opinion without first experiencing isn't just bad judgment, it's actively wrong.

Still better to showcase it on a regular screen, rather than showing nothing at all.
 

Lemondish

Member
Still better to showcase it on a regular screen, rather than showing nothing at all.

I'm not so sure. Showing nothing at all maintains the proper narrative - you need to experience it to make an accurate assessment.

Showing something derails that narrative because it invariably looks worse than other games, or isn't "next gen" enough (whatever that means). The result is a discussion that does not include the game's VR nature.

Plus, there are at least two major conferences left before the thing comes out. We'll get something soon.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
At 6:36, Will was saying Morpheus' optics are "really nice," because of the "big, fat sweet spot," and asked Norm if he wore it with his glasses.

Norm: I did wear them with my glasses on.
Will: How was that?
Norm: Big sweet spot… I don't think they're using Frenel lenses, because you could still see the screen door effect.
Will: I could see that on Oculus though too.
Norm: *rocks side to side* It was a different look.
Will: Yeah, these look like square pixels.
Norm: It's an LCD, I think.

Sounds like Norm is trying to make the case that screen door is worse on Morpheus, and Will feels like he doesn't have much of a case. Plus, he doesn't understand that OLED panels can be full RGB.
Why would he try and make the case if he didn't feel that way? And no, Will doesn't say he doesn't have a case, just that he still said he could see the SDE on the Rift. Not that it was 'just as bad' like you're trying to say.


So you're just concerned. Got it.
It was curiosity. Stop being so insecure.
 

hohoXD123

Member
Still better to showcase it on a regular screen, rather than showing nothing at all.

Not really, these games generally don't look that great when compared to what people are used to, it will turn a lot of people off. What they can do however is show a montage of all the reactions they have had so far when showing it off at these events, and not some painfully fake reactions by actors either.
 

Tripolygon

Member
Why would he try and make the case if he didn't feel that way? And no, Will doesn't say he doesn't have a case, just that he still said he could see the SDE on the Rift. Not that it was 'just as bad' like you're trying to say.



It was curiosity. Stop being so insecure.
Norm tried to make a case for why Rift was better than Morpheus and went as far as saying it was LCD screen and that was factually incorrect. Will said he noticed the screen door effect on Rift as well and and the difference was in the pixel arrangement. Rift has higher resolution screens so of course we should expect it would look better than Morpheus. I can also pull articles where a journalist states Morpheus looked higher resolution than regular 1080p screens and he ascribed that to maybe pixel arrangement.

Edit: And what is it with the stop being insecure bullshit comment? Dude had a different interpretation to the Tested video just like yours and mine are different and you resort to this nonsensical retort. What exactly would he be insecure about?
 

bj00rn_

Banned
Why would he try and make the case if he didn't feel that way? And no, Will doesn't say he doesn't have a case, just that he still said he could see the SDE on the Rift. Not that it was 'just as bad' like you're trying to say.

These guy should know that there's no amount of pixel fill or subpixel matrix that will mask seeing individual pixels at these low resolutions (low for VR use) where the DPI is massively decreased by the FOV and distance to the display. So, like you say, the failing logic here is to equal the ability to see pixels in both HMDs as "being the same" excluding a possible "DPI"-like quantification.
 
Which is pretty much what every dev and PR person for VR companies has repeatedly stated. It's practically/technically impossible to showcase VR on a regular screen. You really need to be 'there' to understand it, and see whether you actually like it or not. Forming an opinion without first experiencing isn't just bad judgment, it's actively wrong.

I must admit, I am in the camp of "show it anyway" I would have loved to have witnessed Capcom "The Kitchen" on stage. They should have brought an audience member up and let him/her play. Everyone is watching that person react to what's going on in the game. I think showing it off that way will make curiosity grow. Don't show footage of the game until after and just show a trailer. And, say you too can experience "The Kitchen" at the Capcom booth.
 

Seanspeed

Banned
Norm tried to make a case for why Rift was better than Morpheus and went as far as saying it was LCD screen and that was factually incorrect. Will said he noticed the screen door effect on Rift as well and and the difference was in the pixel arrangement. Rift has higher resolution screens so of course we should expect it would look better than Morpheus. I can also pull articles where a journalist states Morpheus looked higher resolution than regular 1080p screens and he ascribed that to maybe pixel arrangement.

Edit: And what is it with the stop being insecure bullshit comment? Dude had a different interpretation to the Tested video just like yours and mine are different and you resort to this nonsensical retort. What exactly would he be insecure about?
That comment is because of a running issue with silversurfer there. This time it was his last 'oh its just concern, got it' snark after he was called out for not having any source after I asked a question.

These guy should know that there's no amount of pixel fill or subpixel matrix that will mask seeing individual pixels at these low resolutions (low for VR use) where the DPI is massively decreased by the FOV and distance to the display. So, like you say, the failing logic here is to equal the ability to see pixels in both HMDs as "being the same" excluding a possible "DPI"-like quantification.
Right. There are degrees of severity and it's unlikely we'll see absolutely no SDE at all with these 1st gen headsets, though some apps may reduce how noticeable it is for whatever reason.
 
Why would he try and make the case if he didn't feel that way? And no, Will doesn't say he doesn't have a case, just that he still said he could see the SDE on the Rift. Not that it was 'just as bad' like you're trying to say.



It was curiosity. Stop being so insecure.
Someone (correctly) pointed out that RGB displays are better than pentile displays, and you basically responded with, "PC still rules. Do Sony even have global refresh? So, there's no proof that they do?"

But yeah, I'm the one being insecure here.
 

bj00rn_

Banned
Someone (correctly) pointed out that RGB displays are better than pentile displays

Well, to be fair that depends somewhat on the scenario. One of the absolute best displays on the market is the pentile 5.1-inch 1440 x 2560 Samsung S6 display, arguably better than any RGB variant out there. It uses less power and have a longer lifespan than a similar striped RGB display. After a certain DPI threshold the sub pixel configuration almost doesn't matter anymore (although VR HMDs do naturally decrease the DPI), which is why Samsung has more or less left striped RGB lately. . Now, we know Samsung has the factory tools to make striped RGB displays because that's exactly what Super AMOLED Plus was.
 

KAL2006

Banned
After looking at the OP and the presence that Morpheus had at E3. I definitely won't be getting a Morpheus. As expected the majority of the games will be smaller budget games that will get boring quite quickly. It's obvious developers don't want to put big resources on Morpheus as they won't be able to get enough return as the user base for Morpheus owners won't be as big. This is going to likely be another Move situation.
 
After looking at the OP and the presence that Morpheus had at E3. I definitely won't be getting a Morpheus. As expected the majority of the games will be smaller budget games that will get boring quite quickly. It's obvious developers don't want to put big resources on Morpheus as they won't be able to get enough return as the user base for Morpheus owners won't be as big. This is going to likely be another Move situation.
Morpheus had a large presence at E3. What gives you the impression that the games will get boring quickly? What makes you think devs aren't putting "big resources" into it? Eve and Rigs look like they have plenty of production value. This will be nothing like another move situation.
 
After looking at the OP and the presence that Morpheus had at E3. I definitely won't be getting a Morpheus. As expected the majority of the games will be smaller budget games that will get boring quite quickly. It's obvious developers don't want to put big resources on Morpheus as they won't be able to get enough return as the user base for Morpheus owners won't be as big. This is going to likely be another Move situation.

If this were March 2016, and we're at GDC 2016 and the Platform is schedule somewhere around this time frame. And we the public don't see any games and not more demos, you may have a point. March is my expiration date, GDC is when I will make my pre order decision.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
After looking at the OP and the presence that Morpheus had at E3. I definitely won't be getting a Morpheus. As expected the majority of the games will be smaller budget games that will get boring quite quickly. It's obvious developers don't want to put big resources on Morpheus as they won't be able to get enough return as the user base for Morpheus owners won't be as big. This is going to likely be another Move situation.

Yeah that nearly half of sony's floor space dedicated to morpheus, dedicated first party software, hugely positive comments.

It's nothing like move was. The only commonality is they are made by Sony. I would suggest morpheus will get at least as good game support as PC solutions - any multi platform developer will want their game on all platforms, plus Sony will invest in their own titles too.
 

Reallink

Member
Morpheus had a large presence at E3. What gives you the impression that the games will get boring quickly? What makes you think devs aren't putting "big resources" into it? Eve and Rigs look like they have plenty of production value. This will be nothing like another move situation.

Yea you're right, it's nothing like Move cause Move at least had some promise of AAA support at this point (Killzone) which on the face of it, suggested a solid chance of seeing third party support in other AAA shooters (though that obviously never materialized). His point is absolutely founded, Morpheus right now is just tech demos without anyone announcing/committing to even single or double A projects. This is concerning for a product that will be 3-4x more expensive than Move, and is supposedly releasing "early 2016".
 
After looking at the OP and the presence that Morpheus had at E3. I definitely won't be getting a Morpheus. As expected the majority of the games will be smaller budget games that will get boring quite quickly. It's obvious developers don't want to put big resources on Morpheus as they won't be able to get enough return as the user base for Morpheus owners won't be as big. This is going to likely be another Move situation.
OK suit yourself. I think you'll be missing out though. I also think it's too early to be so sure about making a decision like this, you have potentially a year from now to decide.

Yea you're right, it's nothing like Move cause Move at least had some promise of AAA support at this point (Killzone) which on the face of it, suggested a solid chance of seeing third party support in other AAA shooters (though that obviously never materialized). His point is absolutely founded, Morpheus right now is just tech demos without anyone announcing/committing to even single or double A projects. This is concerning for a product that will be 3-4x more expensive than Move, and is supposedly releasing "early 2016".
First half of 2016, not early 2016. Also there are plenty of games coming out that go beyond tech demos:

Project Morpheus: List of Upcoming Titles

You are right about AAA games though. You probably will not see Call of Duty or Assassins Creed on this thing.I'm not sure that's a bad thing, myself, since it's such new technology it will be interesting to see what people who can take more of a risk on their games will come up with.
 

cakefoo

Member
After looking at the OP and the presence that Morpheus had at E3. I definitely won't be getting a Morpheus. As expected the majority of the games will be smaller budget games that will get boring quite quickly. It's obvious developers don't want to put big resources on Morpheus as they won't be able to get enough return as the user base for Morpheus owners won't be as big. This is going to likely be another Move situation.
Sure, I'd like AAA VR games built from the ground up, but that's like pouring money down the drain when the userbase will be limited. Smaller budgets is what's actually attracting me to VR initially. This is what will lead to a quicker realization of VR's interactive potential.
 
I really wish people could wrap their heads around what kind of experiences VR will offer. If the only thing they can see in their vision is HUGE BLOCKBUSTER AAA EXTRAVAGANZAS!!! Then yeah, they'll probably be disappointed by early iterations of technology that accompany already existing hardware.

Small budget games, indie games, and VR "modes" will be a large part of initial software. VR is initially going to cater to a niche of people, but I see that niche sticking and expanding over time with more people gaining exposure to what VR actually is.

I will gladly take a game like Rigs, or Dreams in VR over any AAA experience you can throw at me on my flat panel, because the experience I get will just have so much more impact.

The AAA industry typically doesn't have the flexibility to just go all in on a new tech, you're not going to see the next Assassins Creed or Mass Effect be VR exclusive. These things take time, and they take an existing userbase. It's the indie community in my opinion that'll really make VR shine early on. Creativity, flexibility, and great price points for a multitude of experiences.
 

Jomjom

Banned
I really can't wait until this releases! Hoping that there is news of people finding a way to use it on PC shortly after the release. I would love a VR visor that I can use both on PS4 and PC.
 

Tripolygon

Member
Yea you're right, it's nothing like Move cause Move at least had some promise of AAA support at this point (Killzone) which on the face of it, suggested a solid chance of seeing third party support in other AAA shooters (though that obviously never materialized). His point is absolutely founded, Morpheus right now is just tech demos without anyone announcing/committing to even single or double A projects. This is concerning for a product that will be 3-4x more expensive than Move, and is supposedly releasing "early 2016".
Lets see if i understand you correctly

Morpheus has more actual titles announced and a huge portion of PlayStation booth dedicated to it. A bigger list of developers, both first party, and third party including lots of indie developers currently making games (i've counted over 40 games/apps) even before the device launches.

But yet move had a solid chance of seeing 3rd party AAA shooter (though that obviously never materialized). But right now, Morpheus with lots of games (i mean "tech demos") announced will be boring quickly because they are not AAA enough for you.

People lose their mind over a simple roller coaster VR experience so i doubt it is going to get boring any time soon. And developing for Morpheus is by extension developing for Move or move-lite AKA DS4.
 

KAL2006

Banned
I'll let you lot go ahead a buy a Morpheus if it takes off with plenty of games I actually want and have depth maybe ill buy it. But I'm never making a mistake of buying another peripheral for a system with tech demo like games or games which have barely any replay value. If Morpheus released with say something like a exclusive Gran Turismo or a big open world game like Oblivion maybe I would consider it but we all know that's not gonna happen. However people who are happy paying a lot of money for small experiences fair play to you it seems like something I don't mind trying but I doubt I'd invest on one. Again we will see if it takes of big, but I'm not going to be an early adopter that gets burnt.
 

Z3M0G

Member
Seems like they don't really have an idea how to market it.

And this:
RIGS trailer

is not how VR should be marketed at all. (showing people with transparant HMD's). It looks like a great game, but that is an obnoxious trailer imho. I'd like to see gameplay instead of seeing faces, you know. ;)

While I agree that the RIGS trailer didn't quite grasp how VR should be marketed, it was a step closer to how it should be marketed than just showing "gameplay"... because showing "gameplay" does NOTHING to advertize the VR experience.

They need trailers to show real people being placed in VR environments... real people super-imposed over images of the virtual world. To demonstrate not what you "see", but how you "feel" in VR... like you are really there. That's the key difference between VR and TV. And that's what they need to advertise.

Doing so is almost impossible... but the RIGS trailer is in the correct direction. I would have shown the people physically sitting in the virtual RIGs, because that's what it will feel like while playing.
 
I'll let you lot go ahead a buy a Morpheus if it takes off with plenty of games I actually want and have depth maybe ill buy it. But I'm never making a mistake of buying another peripheral for a system with tech demo like games or games which have barely any replay value. If Morpheus released with say something like a exclusive Gran Turismo or a big open world game like Oblivion maybe I would consider it but we all know that's not gonna happen. However people who are happy paying a lot of money for small experiences fair play to you it seems like something I don't mind trying but I doubt I'd invest on one. Again we will see if it takes of big, but I'm not going to be an early adopter that gets burnt.

And power to you. It's obvious you're not that enthusiastic about VR, perhaps you've tried it, perhaps not. It's Sony/Valve/Occulus/Starbreeze's job to convince you otherwise, and if you're not sold, I don't think anyone's blaming you.

The way I look at it, considering the type of experience you get with VR, I'd be willing to shell out $300 for a handful of titles. If No Man's Sky, Gran Tourismo, Project Cars, Dreams, and The Witness all had VR support, that would be more than enough to justify my purchase. I understand people who aren't as excited though. There's nothing wrong with being skeptical.
 
I'll let you lot go ahead a buy a Morpheus if it takes off with plenty of games I actually want and have depth maybe ill buy it. But I'm never making a mistake of buying another peripheral for a system with tech demo like games or games which have barely any replay value. If Morpheus released with say something like a exclusive Gran Turismo or a big open world game like Oblivion maybe I would consider it but we all know that's not gonna happen. However people who are happy paying a lot of money for small experiences fair play to you it seems like something I don't mind trying but I doubt I'd invest on one. Again we will see if it takes of big, but I'm not going to be an early adopter that gets burnt.
You're making a lot of assumptions here. We don't know the price, we don't know what games will be available at launch or shortly after, let alone how short or long those games are.

Sony isn't holding a gun to your head demanding you preorder now. You have up to a year to see how much this costs and what games will be available at launch. Why don't you take it easy and see what happens. In the meantime, try VR if you can because it sounds from your posts like you never have experienced it and have no idea what you're in for and how awesome it can be for smaller, non AAA experiences. If you have a smartphone you can get a Google cardboard setup for less than 30 bucks.

http://www.imcardboard.com/

Morpheus will be way better of course but this would be a small taste and open your mind to the possibilities.
 
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