Project Natal - controller free gaming on 360

Mar 6, 2009
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Rad- said:
I'm not sure if going 2 chips is that great if the price is much higher. I mean it's not like most Natal games will push 360 anyways.
How do we know what games are coming out and what effect theywill have on the Hardware? Certain reports suggest there are already plans from different developers to release a few substantial games on Natal and not just the usual low quality party fluff and other shovelware.
 
Dec 8, 2008
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For Natal to massively succeed it needs to be cheap. That is pretty much the reason the chip was originally removed. I suppose if they couldn't get Natal running at it's best without the chip, with devs complaining about it restraining their games, they could have put it back in. If that is the case, and I think it's probably unlikely, I don't think it'll effect the price too much. Natal being cheap is the key factor; they'd rather take a loss on hardware, I think.
 
Aug 27, 2009
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Mr.Green said:
Well, if the Engadget poster isn't full of it, MS actually made an announcement about this chip at the event. So maybe they've made a [wait for it] 360 on the processing issue and went back to a hardware solution?
No, I don't think that's what happened here. According to PrimeSense's reference design, there are two chips in the camera - one for collecting raw data and one for making sense of it. It seems the first one is still in Natal, but the second one isn't.

And 10-15% of processing power is not a lot. 30%, which is a rumored figure, is. I guess we'll have to wait until E3 to find out the truth.
 
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
No, I don't think that's what happened here. According to PrimeSense's reference design, there are two chips in the camera - one for collecting raw data and one for making sense of it. It seems the first one is still in Natal, but the second one isn't.

And 10-15% of processing power is not a lot. 30%, which is a rumored figure, is. I guess we'll have to wait until E3 to find out the truth.
Obviously the 2 cameras have chips, like every electronic device has. But the one they removed isn't for capture raw video or depth data.

It was a third one (as I remember it also appeared in this reference design document) used to process the info coming from this 2 sources in order to recognice human bodies, calculate the "bones", movements etc. Since it was expensive and slow causing too much lag.

They removed it, to make Natal cheaper and to reduce consistently the lag problem, because the 360 CPU / memory is way faster than the chip. The bad side is that now the console CPU and memory have a lot of work.

This 30% is true (I heard 33%), and in the memory side it is also a big chunk, but we have to consider it isn't even a first version of a final library. So with time they will tweak it and optimize it to reduce it with future versions. For that also is better to have it as a library in the console, to update it without needing to flash the firmware of the camera and maybe customizing a bit (or implement it yourself in your own way) for each game if needed.

You also have to consider this huge % is when tracking the full body, and maybe from 2 people. Maybe tracking 1 guy uses almost the half.

BTW at least some months ago, when MS had a conference for developers in London, it needed to "see" the floor, to track the entire body to recognize a guy. This is why it needed to have the people in a certain distance. A camera can't see your entire body if you are a meter from it.

It is logical that in the future (I bet before release) they will be capable of tracking people just "seeing" the upper half of the body, because I think the legs aren't needed when sitting in the sofa playing most of the games, and it would reduce the amount of console work needed.
 
dominuece said:
Detailed and accurate is a point of concern, but I'm pretty impressed at just the stuff they showed. There is still time for improvement.
It just seems like an evolved/improved version of the old EyeToy. I own Kinetic and I think it's great fun (plus a solid workout) and it behaves much like what I've seen from some of the Natal demos. Perhaps I was just expecting too much from Natal.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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mclaren777 said:
It just seems like an evolved/improved version of the old EyeToy. I own Kinetic and I think it's great fun (plus a solid workout) and it behaves much like what I've seen from some of the Natal demos. Perhaps I was just expecting too much from Natal.
Seems like you're expecting too much from what is very little shown so far...especially when it wasn't even meant for public consumption as a way to do a full showing of the interface. Honestly, we're exactly two months away from full official reveal the day before MS' E3 conference. If MS and others haven't shown to the press and public a reason why Natal matters then, I think it's fully fair to consider the project in trouble and any deeper skepticism about its value to gaming possibilities more than reasonable.
 
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
And 10-15% of processing power is not a lot. 30%, which is a rumored figure, is. I guess we'll have to wait until E3 to find out the truth.
This is true. Throwing out random percentages means next to nothing anyway since until we start to see how some of the software that comes out leverages the technology it's just a talking point.
or in many cases in this thread, a trolling point
 
JaggedSac said:
Cool, nice find. Also, I like how he mentions Reach for like two sentences :)
yeah he definitely is not much of a core gamer, and he loved it so perhaps Microsoft is on the right track to attract the monster audience (that doesn't normally enjoy the 360 library).
Personally I hope they show both game types, the obvious mini-game type games as well as something a little core centric.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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scently said:
New NATAL impression from a guy who got to play it.

http://www.jamesgunn.com/2010/04/15/quick-impression-on-microsofts-natal/

He also played a different game from the Breakout one.
James Gunn said:
Dave’s avatar was a girl during River Rush, probably because Dave feels like a little princess inside, and I suddenly realized how awesome it would be for my avatar to molest Dave’s. As my avatar rubbed its crotch against Dave’s avatar’s ass the Microsoft folks started laughing and said that was the first time they had seen anyone do that. I was extremely proud of myself. I’m sure millions of little assholes will follow in the wake of my avatar-raping, but I want it to be noted in my Wikipedia page that I was the very first.
Looks like Natal will usher in the next generation of cybering.
 
Mar 6, 2009
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scently said:
New NATAL impression from a guy who got to play it.

http://www.jamesgunn.com/2010/04/15/quick-impression-on-microsofts-natal/

He also played a different game from the Breakout one.
River Rush sounds pretty cool andI like the idea of having to Jump and slap stars.

Would be great if EA incorporated Natal into its sports titles for example if you give penalty away on FIFA you can direct the Goal keeper with Natal or take Free kick's yourself.

Confidence Man said:
Sounds like predictable casual tripe. Thank god they're having a separate E3 presentation for this shit.
Why would they demo Natal to people at this stage with anything other than casual games?

Unrealistic expectations are unrealistic.
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
Dec 5, 2008
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scently said:
New NATAL impression from a guy who got to play it.

http://www.jamesgunn.com/2010/04/15/quick-impression-on-microsofts-natal/

He also played a different game from the Breakout one.
.
I also saw a new Microsoft tablet which is a lot like the iPad.
wait, did this guy get to play with a Microsoft Courier?

anyway...

Dave’s avatar was a girl during River Rush, probably because Dave feels like a little princess inside, and I suddenly realized how awesome it would be for my avatar to molest Dave’s. As my avatar rubbed its crotch against Dave’s avatar’s ass the Microsoft folks started laughing and said that was the first time they had seen anyone do that. I was extremely proud of myself. I’m sure millions of little assholes will follow in the wake of my avatar-raping, but I want it to be noted in my Wikipedia page that I was the very first.
:lol
 

PSGames

Junior Member
Apr 1, 2008
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Some members of Eidos and Primesense are forming a Natal game studio called Side-Kick:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/press...ION_GAME_CONSOLES_AND_DIGITAL_LIVINGROOMS.php

And heres one of their games in development:



Mini Demons is a game where you play the ball in a cartoonish pinball-like environment.

In Mini Demon you play the role of a shape shifting Demon locked inside a colorful and crazy world build of spheres. Each sphere is unique and marvelous 3D environments build with pinball-like mechanics.
Your goal is to pick up energy balls that float in the world by switching between a ball shape (Jump, roll) a star shape (Sky dive) and Demon (walk).

Your mission is to get to the core sphere and lock the riddle of the world you are in a world filled with paddles, ramps, wind tubes and other fun obstacles .
The game is totally immersive as your movements in front of the monitor are controlling the Demon as it flies, jumps and rolls toward the core of its world.
Looks XBLA calibur.
 
Jun 13, 2009
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I was wondering when some of these new games were gonna start to leak.... its been very quiet since last e3 in terms of natal. Some of this stuff sounds very interesting and I look forward to seeing what natal will do at their e3 press conference.
 
May 18, 2006
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PSGames said:
Some members of Eidos and Primesense are forming a Natal game studio called Side-Kick:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/press...ION_GAME_CONSOLES_AND_DIGITAL_LIVINGROOMS.php

And heres one of their games in development:





Looks XBLA calibur.
That studio is making games for playstation move also, they are not exclusive to MS. I saw a story about this on joystiq the other day and the dev responded to them and told them that they are making for Move also because its camera based.

Here's the link

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/04/15/side-kick-founded-to-work-on-motion-based-games-for-next-gen-ga/

Here's his statement.

Update: A Side-Kick representative got back to us, stating that "Natal and Move are the targets for now since they use camera systems to track movement." Well, we're glad that's cleared up!
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
Jan 24, 2007
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BenjaminBirdie said:
If the first two imply the kind of game I think they do, directing a flying character through your arms and like shifting? That looks so fucking rad.
Huh. So maybe like Pain, but continuous movement through a level and your motion in front of the camera directs the character. Sounds neat.

Thinking about it, Pain with a camera to direct movement would be cool as well.
 
Oct 12, 2007
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AndyD said:
Huh. So maybe like Pain, but continuous movement through a level and your motion in front of the camera directs the character. Sounds neat.

Thinking about it, Pain with a camera to direct movement would be cool as well.
But it also looks painful after a while. Having your arms spread out is not easy after a while.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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beast786 said:
But it also looks painful after a while. Having your arms spread out is not easy after a while.
If they did their jobs and tested for fatigue and tolerance, they would regiment the experience to give constant breaks, or reasons to put your arms down and/or mix up physical movements. The average duration in a turn is probably less than a minute or two at a time instead of being tens of minutes in a given session like your average controller-based game. Ninty's Wii Sports games are a good example of shorter, focused turns at play. The same care to consider player fatigue and comfort can work here...as it should be a chief issue for any motion-based game. This sort of thing would come up pretty early and fast in just the prototyping and concept building stage, anyway.
 
Oct 12, 2007
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MightyHedgehog said:
If they did their jobs and tested for fatigue and tolerance, they would regiment the experience to give constant breaks, or reasons to put your arms down and/or mix up physical movements. The average duration in a turn is probably less than a minute or two at a time instead of being tens of minutes in a given session like your average controller-based game. Ninty's Wii Sports games are a good example of shorter, focused turns at play. The same care to consider player fatigue and comfort can work here...as it should be a chief issue for any motion-based game. This sort of thing would come up pretty early and fast in just the prototyping and concept building stage, anyway.

To be honest even 2 min without rest session could be tiring. But you are corect about fatique/gameplay. I am really curious to see what they can do.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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May 18, 2006
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jaypah said:
yeah, I was waiting for someone to see the pattern. It's not just this thread either. Pretty harmless though. Pretty funny too.
What pattern do I have? I've probably posted in this thread what 2 or 3 times. One to clarify a statement made about a natal studio and one about the river rush game.
 
Nov 1, 2006
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gluv65 said:
What pattern do I have? I've probably posted in this thread what 2 or 3 times. One to clarify a statement made about a natal studio and one about the river rush game.
i obviously have you confused with another fanboy. sorry.
 
Oct 19, 2007
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scently said:
New NATAL impression from a guy who got to play it.

http://www.jamesgunn.com/2010/04/15/quick-impression-on-microsofts-natal/

He also played a different game from the Breakout one.
Hard to take this article seriously

As hyperbolic as it may sound, I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if in a few years we see a decrease in childhood obesity simply because of the system. For that alone, I think it’s the biggest step forward in gaming in a long, long time. But, despite that, the game was fun as hell.
 
Jul 29, 2007
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gluv65 said:
What pattern do I have? I've probably posted in this thread what 2 or 3 times. One to clarify a statement made about a natal studio and one about the river rush game.
Not in order and I probably missed some with my Google-fu, but there's a pattern there lol

gluv65 said:
Has this been posted? I didn't do a search.

Fake demostration of a real game with Natal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA9asPmYew8
gluv65 said:
XBOX evolved slowed down the break dancer in an effort too see from naked eye how much lag is their

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjlehekgXDQ&feature=player_embedded
gluv65 said:
Draw your own conclusions, hopefully MS has something up its sleeve, I'm not seeing the innovation when reading this article.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-primesense-article
gluv65 said:
That studio is making games for playstation move also, they are not exclusive to MS. I saw a story about this on joystiq the other day and the dev responded to them and told them that they are making for Move also because its camera based.

Here's the link

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/04/15/side-kick-founded-to-work-on-motion-based-games-for-next-gen-ga/

Here's his statement.

Update: A Side-Kick representative got back to us, stating that "Natal and Move are the targets for now since they use camera systems to track movement." Well, we're glad that's cleared up!
gluv65 said:
The Rive rush game sound just like the anti grav the ps2 eyetoy game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFyEqpDOf8U
gluv65 said:
Its cool, I'm just drawing a comparison, when I read the description. If you feel that I'm trolling I apologize, 'cause I'm not. Anyways, I'm looking forward to NATAL and MOVE.
gluv65 said:
Dollars to doughnuts, E3 2010 you will use a controller with NATAL, just too steal some thunder from Sony, nothing more nothing less.
gluv65 said:
Every freaking video has some standing up, show me a video the way people really play, on their ass and then I'll take note, until then I will not be Lawrence Welk good night now maestro.
gluv65 said:
again show me a video of some one sitting down on a nice comfortable couch, the last 2 have been viral videos, not a presentation.
gluv65 said:
What pattern do I have? I've probably posted in this thread what 2 or 3 times. One to clarify a statement made about a natal studio and one about the river rush game.
And once to say there's no innovation in Natal. And again to say you're