• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Protests escalate in Hong Kong, violent clashes with police (Update: HKG airport grounded; mainland military rolling in)

Sep 14, 2014
101
94
365
These things are not won by playing PR, never get dragged into that by your opponents. Especially when you're up against goliath, lest they setup infinite goalposts saying the problem is you doing things the "wrong way", and shift focus away from what the whole point was to begin with.
 

merlinevo

Member
Apr 28, 2019
410
857
310
Trump is pushing China into a corner. China is being hit from the outside by the US with tariff while facing internal opposition from protesters. If China looks weak on any side, they will lose both fronts. China is not in a good position right now and this could be the opening Trump is looking for.
 

pramod

Member
Oct 24, 2017
2,160
2,193
635
Trump is pushing China into a corner. China is being hit from the outside by the US with tariff while facing internal opposition from protesters. If China looks weak on any side, they will lose both fronts. China is not in a good position right now and this could be the opening Trump is looking for.
Well or they can just as likely continue to not give an inch. Were talking about a dictatorship here.

Only thing that can change the tide is if their economy starts to collapse.
 
Jun 26, 2013
3,578
2,093
680
Well or they can just as likely continue to not give an inch. Were talking about a dictatorship here.

Only thing that can change the tide is if their economy starts to collapse.
It should be worth noting that Xi Jinping didn't rise to power without getting his hands dirty, so there will be political opponents who will start questioning his leadership. The CCP isn't exactly one big happy family.

Most recently, the US and Japan have agreed to a trade deal where Japan will buy excess corn from the US. I assume Trump will try to establish more deals with Japan and with other Asian countries as a way to isolate China.
 

autoduelist

Member
Aug 30, 2014
9,575
10,981
805


Footage of this exists but is 22.3mb and won't upload. Shows him getting pushed to the ground, more.

1st and 2nd Amendment. All day, every day. Governments are not your friend.
 

autoduelist

Member
Aug 30, 2014
9,575
10,981
805
Found a different version/angle of above than i had, but can embed....



In the other footage, you see the police officer, gun out, walk fast towards what appears to be this man. He is on his knees, and gets a full kick that topples him over backwards [you see this kick at 20 seconds in the vid above, but from a bad angle]. I believe the photo occurs shortly after this.
 
Last edited:

Shad0w59

Member
May 18, 2018
329
444
420


Footage of this exists but is 22.3mb and won't upload. Shows him getting pushed to the ground, more.

1st and 2nd Amendment. All day, every day. Governments are not your friend.
This guy runs a good 7-8 metres from behind the press to stand in front of the firing line for his Instagram followers and 5 minutes of fame. He's not caught in the crossfire, nor is he an innocent bystander that managed to get lost in the chaos. He actively runs in front of the police for a photo op. What the hell is he thinking running in front of 4-5 armed police?


I don't think he should be shot or harmed obviously but I think running in front of police who are already outnumbered and tense from retreating from a large crowd of armed protesters is a very stupid thing to do. IMO deserving of being "moved on" in the manner that he was in the clip.

Source:

Edit: here's another angle:


Official statement (from reddit and news conference):

The man appeared suddenly with unclear purpose. He was seen as a threat as he held a broken police shield on one hand and a long umbrella on the other. The gun holding officer "pushed the man away with his feet".
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Helios

autoduelist

Member
Aug 30, 2014
9,575
10,981
805
This guy runs a good 7-8 metres from behind the press to stand in front of the firing line for his Instagram followers and 5 minutes of fame. He's not caught in the crossfire, nor is he an innocent bystander that managed to get lost in the chaos. He actively runs in front of the police for a photo op. What the hell is he thinking running in front of 4-5 armed police?

I don't think he should be shot or harmed obviously but I think running in front of police who are already outnumbered and tense from retreating from a large crowd of armed protesters is a very stupid thing to do. IMO deserving of being "moved on" in the manner that he was in the clip.
Would you have blamed them if they shot him dead?

Can we look at your words for a second? Specifically: "nor is he an innocent bystander that managed to get lost in the chaos."

See what you are implying there? That because he ran in front of police with their guns drawn, he someone lost his innocence, and, instead, he is guilty. Guilty of what? Doesn't matter, but you downplay it as "He actively runs in front of the police for a photo op". So you're dismissive of his actions, treating his act as a "very stupid thing to do".

You "don't think he should be shot or harmed", yet immediately say his actions were deserving of being kicked hard, that he was "deserving of being "moved on" in the manner that he was in the clip." Do you see how your sentences don't even agree with each other?

Now I break that all down because you also ask:
"What the hell is he thinking running in front of 4-5 armed police?"

Because in one way, sure, running in front of cops with their guns out is stupid in a vacuum, and sure, you can expect to get moved along. He easily could have gotten shot. But your dismissive attitude is why you can't see the power of what he did. This is all a disarmed populace can ever peacefully do. Stand in front of police with guns [or... tanks]. He saw them fire off a warning shot, pull out their guns, and while those engaged in hand to hand battle ran, he got in front and stood his ground. Unarmed.

And in doing so, sure it's a 'photo op'. So was flower power during the 60's. A flower won't stop a bullet. But in risking his life, he illustrates the power differential. He wants freedom against the authoritarians marching down the the streets with guns. Would he have been more effective just staying in the crowd? Or standing in front of them, holding an unbrella, while they point guns at his face?

I think it says far more about your mindset that you think he was just "stand[ing] in front of the firing line for his Instagram followers and 5 minutes of fame." That you denounce him as "not caught in the crossfire" as if this undoes the picture. No, this dude went out of his way to stand in front of a gun held by an opposing ideology. This is what non-violent protest against authoritarianism looks like. Except some times, he ends up dead. And that's the risk he was willing to take to make his point.
 
Aug 21, 2018
297
120
245
Things are getting out of hand quickly. I was supportive of the protestors in the beginning because they were mostly peaceful and what they want is reasonable. Now I am not sure sure, Carrie promise to have some kind of dialogue and the violence from the protestors escalated.
 

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
6,528
7,183
880
Well or they can just as likely continue to not give an inch. Were talking about a dictatorship here.

Only thing that can change the tide is if their economy starts to collapse.
That seems to be the game both are playing. Whose economy will tank first.

Trumps big move, his Nuke, is if he goes through with his order for US companies to pull out all investment from China if he invokes IEEPA .

Things are getting very spicey right now. We could be getting to the point where both economies can hit a recession, and having the 2 biggest global economies in a recession will lead to a global depression.
 
Sep 14, 2014
101
94
365
They're dealing with a dictatorship. A lack of perfection is inevitable as more variables are introduced and entropy, even before we consider the party PR wing meddling to sway the public against them.


The whole point of Battle Royale was to prove that you can trust nobody. Mostly inspired by the Soviets Union. The party will stoop to any level to maintain control.

I believe 5 leaders of the protests in 2014 met with Carrie Lam. 4 of them ended up imprisoned. They can talk about nothing, the requests are clear. A meeting for "dialogue" is a win for the party.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: pramod

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
14,101
26,393
1,260
USA
dunpachi.com
That seems to be the game both are playing. Whose economy will tank first.

Trumps big move, his Nuke, is if he goes through with his order for US companies to pull out all investment from China if he invokes IEEPA .

Things are getting very spicey right now. We could be getting to the point where both economies can hit a recession, and having the 2 biggest global economies in a recession will lead to a global depression.
Capitalism vs Communist state 2: Electric Boogaloo

All Trump has to do to kick the can down the road. He can find alternative buyers for our goods, like he did with Japan this past weekend, without ever fixing the underlying problems, and the yuan will continue to tank. Make their money worth less and all that business wealth they built up over the past 20 years? Poof.
 

Shad0w59

Member
May 18, 2018
329
444
420
Would you have blamed them if they shot him dead?

Can we look at your words for a second? Specifically: "nor is he an innocent bystander that managed to get lost in the chaos."

See what you are implying there? That because he ran in front of police with their guns drawn, he someone lost his innocence, and, instead, he is guilty. Guilty of what? Doesn't matter, but you downplay it as "He actively runs in front of the police for a photo op". So you're dismissive of his actions, treating his act as a "very stupid thing to do".

You "don't think he should be shot or harmed", yet immediately say his actions were deserving of being kicked hard, that he was "deserving of being "moved on" in the manner that he was in the clip." Do you see how your sentences don't even agree with each other?

Now I break that all down because you also ask:
"What the hell is he thinking running in front of 4-5 armed police?"

Because in one way, sure, running in front of cops with their guns out is stupid in a vacuum, and sure, you can expect to get moved along. He easily could have gotten shot. But your dismissive attitude is why you can't see the power of what he did. This is all a disarmed populace can ever peacefully do. Stand in front of police with guns [or... tanks]. He saw them fire off a warning shot, pull out their guns, and while those engaged in hand to hand battle ran, he got in front and stood his ground. Unarmed.

And in doing so, sure it's a 'photo op'. So was flower power during the 60's. A flower won't stop a bullet. But in risking his life, he illustrates the power differential. He wants freedom against the authoritarians marching down the the streets with guns. Would he have been more effective just staying in the crowd? Or standing in front of them, holding an unbrella, while they point guns at his face?

I think it says far more about your mindset that you think he was just "stand[ing] in front of the firing line for his Instagram followers and 5 minutes of fame." That you denounce him as "not caught in the crossfire" as if this undoes the picture. No, this dude went out of his way to stand in front of a gun held by an opposing ideology. This is what non-violent protest against authoritarianism looks like. Except some times, he ends up dead. And that's the risk he was willing to take to make his point.
Yes, I would have blamed the police if they shot a man who ran out to kneel down in front of the firing line with his hands outstretched. There's also the danger of him getting shot in the back by BB pellets or set on fire by Molotov cocktails from the other side. He was a danger to himself and others. Maybe a stray projectile would hit someone's eye.

Watch the video from my post, he didn't get kicked hard at all. He is on his feet within 1-2 seconds.

BTW watch this footage of what this person was doing earlier. Throwing bricks at retreating police. Is this non violent protest?

 
Last edited:

KojimaLovesMiyazaki

Formerly 'matt404au'
Apr 25, 2009
14,458
23,232
1,400
Australia
Capitalism vs Communist state 2: Electric Boogaloo

All Trump has to do to kick the can down the road. He can find alternative buyers for our goods, like he did with Japan this past weekend, without ever fixing the underlying problems, and the yuan will continue to tank. Make their money worth less and all that business wealth they built up over the past 20 years? Poof.
Hey, ease up on the homophobia please, Mr. Panky.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: DunDunDunpachi

Dane

Member
Jul 16, 2019
165
88
180
Capitalism vs Communist state 2: Electric Boogaloo

All Trump has to do to kick the can down the road. He can find alternative buyers for our goods, like he did with Japan this past weekend, without ever fixing the underlying problems, and the yuan will continue to tank. Make their money worth less and all that business wealth they built up over the past 20 years? Poof.
They are devaluating the Yuan on purpose that the companies and people will continue to buy from them, and also, they still have plently of labour that could hold it, in other worlds, raw power, just like the USSR had in WW2, even if the quality overall was poor.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
14,101
26,393
1,260
USA
dunpachi.com
They are devaluating the Yuan on purpose that the companies and people will continue to buy from them, and also, they still have plently of labour that could hold it, in other worlds, raw power, just like the USSR had in WW2, even if the quality overall was poor.
Like I said, it's an Electric Boogaloo. The USSR also had a ton of labor. Will the Chinese labor be able to keep their "not actually communist" economy afloat when the wage paid to those laborers is getting devalued? Will more political prisoners find themselves peeling garlic and mixing concrete in lieu of paid workers? We've seen how this story goes already.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: hariseldon and Dane

pramod

Member
Oct 24, 2017
2,160
2,193
635
You know, I feel like there is actually a very easy solution to this problem, if only the CCP can see it.

So it's obvious most of these protesters are young people, students, just ordinary folk. There are no millionaires out there risking their lives to protest.

So why would only ordinary folks protest? Because they feel like they have no future, no hope. Probably the same way a lot of "deplorables" felt when they voted for Trump. There are a lot of Pepes and US flags being used in these protests, I don't think that is a coincidence.

So instead of fighting these protesters, why doesn't the CCP just help them? For example, announce a gigantic financial stimulus package for HK. Make all college free. Build AAA+ world class medical facilities in HK and promise free healthcare to everyone. Offer lucrative lifelong jobs working for the CCP to every young person if they would just stop protesting. Use the carrot not the stick. I mean this would cost a lot less to them in the long run than trying to fight the protesters.

Well, maybe the CCP can't do this right now, it's a bit too late, it would be seen as "bribes". But it's definitely something they need to look into to prevent the next one from happening.
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: V4skunk

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
6,528
7,183
880
You know, I feel like there is actually a very easy solution to this problem, if only the CCP can see it.

So it's obvious most of these protesters are young people, students, just ordinary folk. There are no millionaires out there risking their lives to protest.

So why would only ordinary folks protest? Because they feel like they have no future, no hope. Probably the same way a lot of "deplorables" felt when they voted for Trump. There are a lot of Pepes and US flags being used in these protests, I don't think that is a coincidence.

So instead of fighting these protesters, why doesn't the CCP just help them? For example, announce a gigantic financial stimulus package for HK. Make all college free. Build AAA+ world class medical facilities in HK and promise free healthcare to everyone. Offer lucrative lifelong jobs working for the CCP to every young person if they would just stop protesting. Use the carrot not the stick. I mean this would cost a lot less to them in the long run than trying to fight the protesters.

Well, maybe the CCP can't do this right now, it's a bit too late, it would be seen as "bribes". But it's definitely something they need to look into to prevent the next one from happening.
So your saying the CCP should adopt the Democratic platform?

I think you forgot to mention post birth abortions, reparations, and stopping cow farts.
 

pramod

Member
Oct 24, 2017
2,160
2,193
635
Well, unlike the USA, China actually has the money to pull it off, and HK is a just a city. If they want they can make HK into a real "socialist paradise" that Dems want so badly to implement here but it's just not possible to do it at that scale here.

So if HKers are so worried about HK's future...why not just make it into a paradise that no one would want to leave? (even if they have no freedoms).

I mean heck, one thing they can do right now easily is build a ton of nice apartments in HK and offer a free apartment to every young person. The protests would end the next day.
 
Last edited:
  • Triggered
Reactions: V4skunk

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
6,528
7,183
880
Well, unlike the USA, China actually has the money to pull it off, and HK is a just a city. If they want they can make HK into a real "socialist paradise" that Dems want so badly to implement here but it's just not possible to do it at that scale here.

So if HKers are so worried about HK's future...why not just make it into a paradise that no one would want to leave? (even if they have no freedoms).

I mean heck, one thing they can do right now easily is build a ton of nice apartments in HK and offer a free apartment to every young person. The protests would end the next day.
The only way it will work is if HK had open borders and allowed Millions of illegals into HK! Then HKers will stop protesting for sure.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: pramod

pramod

Member
Oct 24, 2017
2,160
2,193
635
So I keep seeing movie parallels I cant help it lol.

So its like the Matrix where a bunch of people have taken the red pill and realized they are slaves and rebelling.

So how do u fix it? Well u offer them a life of ignorant endless bliss like what happened with Cypher. A lot of people would end up choosing security over freedom.
 

V4skunk

Member
Nov 20, 2018
701
540
310
Well, unlike the USA, China actually has the money to pull it off, and HK is a just a city. If they want they can make HK into a real "socialist paradise" that Dems want so badly to implement here but it's just not possible to do it at that scale here.

So if HKers are so worried about HK's future...why not just make it into a paradise that no one would want to leave? (even if they have no freedoms).

I mean heck, one thing they can do right now easily is build a ton of nice apartments in HK and offer a free apartment to every young person. The protests would end the next day.
You have zero understanding of what is going on comrade.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pramod

Thurible

Formerly 'CatholicGamerGuy'
Aug 15, 2018
1,237
1,286
610
So instead of fighting these protesters, why doesn't the CCP just help them? For example, announce a gigantic financial stimulus package for HK. Make all college free. Build AAA+ world class medical facilities in HK and promise free healthcare to everyone. Offer lucrative lifelong jobs working for the CCP to every young person if they would just stop protesting. Use the carrot not the stick. I mean this would cost a lot less to them in the long run than trying to fight the protesters.
China is an authoritative state, I doubt that they would willingly give into the demands of the protestors. Currently they are committing several human rights violations on people the CCP don't like. There is forced organ harvesting, concentration camps for Uyghur muslims, churches are being razed for not complying with the party, media censors information and people are being monitored, you aren't allowed to publically criticize the government, and much more going on.

I don't mean to sound argumentative or mean, but I think China will do everything in it's power to suppress and reign in the protestors and wouldn't consider giving in concessions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pramod

pramod

Member
Oct 24, 2017
2,160
2,193
635
I'm just saying China is doing this all wrong. I mean it must be hugely frustrating and embarrassing to China that HK seems to not want to have anything to do with it. Why would HK not want to belong to such a supposedly great powerful rich country like China?(I'm asking rhetorically of course) Wouldn't it be better if becoming a part of China was thought of more as a good thing, than something to dread and escape from?


If China is El Guapo and HK is Carmen, wouldn't it be better if HK would open itself up willingly to China?
 
Last edited:

gela94

Member
Aug 24, 2018
266
116
230
I feel like this was written on the wall since the moment HK was given back to china in the 90s. I think in the long run HK will lose there is no way china will keep HK independent. This is just the beginning. And I'm distgusted that there are people who live in western countries and are supporting China. But I guess even in east germany there are still alot of people who idolize and downplay the happenings in the DDR.
 

Shad0w59

Member
May 18, 2018
329
444
420
Here comes the N word:



Interesting compilation of protester hijinks:





Just peaceful protest guys, not Antifa behaviour at all.
 
Last edited:

Weiji

Member
Jul 20, 2018
492
521
355
If she doesn’t also resign the protests won’t end. Per my understanding their system doesn’t have a mechanic to actually “withdraw” anything, once put forth it can be taken to a vote anytime. Which is why they wanted her to step down. She had already stated they would not vote again on the bill, so I’m not clear on what’s actually being accomplished here.
 

zeorhymer

Gold Member
Nov 9, 2013
1,416
899
615
San Francisco, CA
If she doesn’t also resign the protests won’t end. Per my understanding their system doesn’t have a mechanic to actually “withdraw” anything, once put forth it can be taken to a vote anytime. Which is why they wanted her to step down. She had already stated they would not vote again on the bill, so I’m not clear on what’s actually being accomplished here.
I was surprised about the withdrawal of the bill honestly. I thought China would put it's foot down. I think she said that she couldn't step down. More than likely China said to stay put.

I read this little nugget which I didn't know about:

Hong Kong has not seen this kind of turmoil since the pro-communist riots of 1967 when residents took to the streets calling for the end of British colonial rule.
I guess once they got a taste of democracy, they didn't want to go back.
 
Jun 26, 2013
3,578
2,093
680

In short summary: Leaked audio shows that Carrie Lam is a mere puppet and China is willing to play the long game.