PS Suite news - C# SDK coming November, content distribution from Spring 2012

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
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Think this is worth surfacing to its own thread (if it hasn't already been).

Cliff notes:

- SDK to be made available to download in November at an undisclosed cost
- Sounds like it'll be available to anyone, from individual developers up
- The SDK is a custom C# environment with its own libs
- Sony will start distributing PS Suite content next Spring (delay :( ) But I guess/hope in time for Vita's western launches
- But SCE will launch the Playstation Store for PS Certified devices from Oct, selling PSone games to start...so I guess we'll find out then what kind of license you get to share purchases among your devices etc.

http://scei.co.jp/corporate/release/110915b_e.html

http://phandroid.com/2011/09/15/playstation-suite-sdk-beta-coming-in-november-to-playstation-certified-devices/playstationsdksuite2011/



Tokyo, September 15, 2011 – Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) today announced that it will offer software development kits (SDK) for PlayStation®Suite (PS Suite), called “PlayStation®Suite SDK,” *1 for content developers starting this November. PS Suite is an initiative solution to deliver the world of PlayStation® to Android™ based portable devices.

Through PS Suite SDK, content developers can create content for PlayStation™Certified (PS Certified) devices, hardware certified through the PS Suite license program, as well as for PlayStation®Vita (PS Vita).

Supporting C# as the programming language, PS Suite SDK can run programs developed in C# on virtual machine equipped on both PS Certified devices and PS Vita. By supporting development for multiple devices and by adopting libraries to create a variety of content not only limited to games, PS Suite SDK will not only help developers save their cost in creating new content but also allow them to efficiently create their content on one SDK and without having to create on several different SDKs.

Through PS Suite SDK, SCE will provide to game developers and publishers the potential to further expand their business opportunities to Android based portable devices. In addition, SCE can approach to a wider range of content developers, non-gaming developers and individual programmers. The detailed information of PS Suite SDK, including how to download, will be announced via a dedicated PS Suite section on SCE’s official website.

As of September 15th, 2011, PS Certified device line-up includes Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications AB’s Xperia PLAY, Sony Corporation’s "Sony Tablet" S, "Sony Tablet" P, and SCE will continue to further accelerate the expansion of PS Certified devices in addition to the current hardware line-up.

Furthermore, SCE will provide a variety of content towards these PS Certified devices from end October through PlayStation®Store*2 on PlaySation®Network, starting with original PlayStation games (PS one® classics). The service will start in nine countries including Japan, United States, Canada, United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and Australia and with more countries to follow. In next spring, SCE will enhance the PS Store for PS Certified devices and provide content created by PS Suite SDK, further prevailing the world of PS Suite.

Through PS Suite, SCE will deploy various measures to support content developers in their business for rapidly prevailing Android based portable devices and will expand the PlayStation entertainment experience on an open operating system.

*1 Software Development Kit is a set of development tools and software libraries. Developers are able to obtain this SDK by signing a license agreement with SCE and by purchasing tool products.
*2 Users can download vast digital content including games through PS Store for PS Network for PS3, PSP, PS Vita and PS Certified devices.
*3 Number of content differ by regions.
The dev environment sounds more custom than I was expecting. On the plus side it does sound like you won't have too many hoops to jump through to get the SDK - hopefully tick a box on a webpage and get out the credit card, and that's it? Hopefully the cost won't be high, it surely can't be if they're targeting down to individual programmers.

I'm a bit wary that the PR focuses on PS certified devices only...previous PR seemed to suggest any Android 2.3+ device would be able to play this stuff, with performance guarantees on certified hardware. Maybe now it's just for PS Certified? We'll see I guess.

edit - we have an answer to that last question...

 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
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ULTROS! said:
Nice, so by learning XNA and C#, I can implement it on PS Suite.
XNA stuff won't be directly relevant...c# yes, but it'll have its own libs/tools that are different to XNA.

(That said, understanding one environment like that probably helps you pick up another more easily, so...)
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
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I wonder if there's any chance they'll let you target Vita as a special case...and expose some of its specific functionality (like rear touch). Probably not, they'll probably want to keep some Vita features just for lower-level Vita specific development, but it's nice to dream :p

Also wonder what kind of camera access you'll get. I presume rear facing cameras are on all Certified devices so far? Hopefully part of the spec. A SmartAR lib would be nice...
 
gofreak said:
I wonder if there's any chance they'll let you target Vita as a special case...and expose some of its specific functionality (like rear touch). Probably not, they'll probably want to keep some Vita features just for lower-level Vita specific development, but it's nice to dream :p

Also wonder what kind of camera access you'll get. I presume rear facing cameras are on all Certified devices so far? Hopefully part of the spec. A SmartAR lib would be nice...
They probably have to expose some of the controls unless they want to force the games to be touch only.
 

Alx

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What's with all those C# SDKs ? Real men use C and C++... :p
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
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Nirolak said:
They probably have to expose some of the controls unless they want to force the games to be touch only.
Controls will be exposed for sure...they're even exposed in Android now. Left stick, right stick, the shoulder buttons, the d-pad, the face buttons. If you're on a tablet or touch only device you'll get those PS button overlays I guess. Front touch will obviously be exposed...a rear camera I guess? Maybe front and rear? Mic? Gyros I'm sure too.

I think the only Vita-specific thing you might not have access to is probably the rear touch. Which I suppose isn't a HUGE thing, but if they did expose it as a special, optional input, you could see more experimentation with it than you might get among the bigger devs.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
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Were they showing you can do multiplayer across all devices with it?



Would make sense, but not sure if they were just showing the same game side-by-side or were actually doing MP here (?)

edit - is there a video of the keynote anywhere? Didn't stay up for it.
 

sagi446

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May 9, 2011
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So I suppose it's safe to assume Sony is using Mono or a modified version of it.

Anyone with any experience on Mono/Sony's implementation and how it compares to Java (Not Google's Dalvik BS)?
 

zomgbbqftw

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Durante said:
Well, I'd rather program in C# than Java, that's for sure. It's surprising though given ow much of the Android ecosystem is built around Java.
So happy Sony didn't go with java, complete dogshit. C# is definitely a good deal for dens, especially smaller ones who won't want to deal with C++.

Python would have really shaken things up though, but I guess it isn't fast enough.
 
Aug 24, 2009
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NotTarts said:
I've heard C# is faster than Java, but I'm not sure.
Nope. C# does have the advantage of Microsoft being kinder to alternative implementations than Oracle (Oracle has a very sue-happy culture).
 

Man

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C# is a surprising choice but will enable even more developers. This will be great!
 

Man

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Really damn good to hear PlayStation Suite being in excellent shape and releasing fast.

It seemed like the project had meet a major wall somewhere but now everything is happening at once. Good execution!
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
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@yosp sez:



A little disappointing...but hopefully all Sony mobile devices will support it going forward, at least.
 

Man

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gofreak said:
A little disappointing...but hopefully all Sony mobile devices will support it going forward, at least.
This is how it must be. They will have to draw the line somewhere. Else it's just back to the same dilemma Android developers are facing today. If PS Suite games didn't guarantee a certain quality level then it would be mostly useless (disregarding the extra income from being able to develop/distribute for Android and Vita at same time).
 

Durante

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I think C# has the potential to be faster than Java, particularly for games, for one simple reason: stack-allocated structures.

It's also 100% more convenient for everything dealing with vector math (like any game ever) because it supports operator overloading.
 
Aug 24, 2009
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Drkirby said:
C# seems like an odd choice personally, but I am not an expert on programming languages.
It's a managed language that can be compiled down to Dalvik bytecode just as well as Java. There's also a lot of Interop tools with Java and C# so that works as well.


Durante said:
I think C# has the potential to be faster than Java, particularly for games, for one simple reason: stack-allocated structures.

It's also 100% more convenient for everything dealing with vector math (like any game ever) because it supports operator overloading.
Technically, you can do stack based allocation in Java. You just have to write your own library (see http://www.java-gaming.org/index.php/topic,18843.0.html) which Sony will have to do for the C# libraries since ultimately it will be compiled to Dalvik bytecode.
 

Midou

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The one thing I certainly like C# more than Java for was GUI APIs, but it was only relevant when developing on windows. :p
 

D4Danger

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Drkirby said:
C# seems like an odd choice personally, but I am not an expert on programming languages.
C# was the original plan for Android but Google decided to risk using their own version of Java instead (and now they're being sued by Oracle because of it)

It wouldn't surprise me if that's the reason Sony is playing it safe going with C#
 
Aug 14, 2006
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So it's basically just like XNA being used across XBL Indie Games and Windows Phone 7 then? (Cross compatibility is possible there too, just to make the comparison even more creepy!)
 

Bollocks

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This is actually really cool, glad it's not based on Java syntax.
C# is odd at first sight but I guess they are going for accessibility, which in that case is a good choice.
Can't wait to get my hands on the SDK
 

NemesisPrime

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Man said:
C# is a surprising choice but will enable even more developers. This will be great!
Not really. Sony is wisely dodging the Oracle-Google fight that is casting doubt on Java on Android.
 

Panajev2001a

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Objective-C would have been an even better choice.

1.) Deterministic memory management (reference counted environment without a garbage collector introducing variable length delays in your application) and a language that feels much more sensible to me than C++ as far as Object Oriented programming languages go.

2.) Large and well developed frameworks (built-in) and open implementations available. GNUStep, etc... Sony already had dabbled with it with the SNAP framework.

3.) Easy to mix C and C++ code with it.

All these things can be quickly seen by any iOS developer.
Android's approach of Java + NDK and bridging between the two worlds with JNI calls seems far less adapt to games IMHO.

Edit: In C# you do have the ability to insert UNSAFE (i.e. not managed, not governed by the garbage collector) code sections. This could help bring some speed back... I am not sure if they can reap that benefit once they go down to Dalvik bytecode... unless they compile it all with an NDK and the custom C# VM runs as a mostly NDK developed app.
 
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Panajev2001a said:
Objective-C would have been an even better choice.

1.) Deterministic memory management (reference counted environment without a garbage collector introducing variable length delays in your application) and a language that feels much more sensible to me than C++ as far as Object Oriented programming languages go.

2.) Large and well developed frameworks (built-in) and open implementations available. GNUStep, etc... Sony already had dabbled with it with the SNAP framework.

3.) Easy to mix C and C++ code with it.

All these things can be quickly seen by any iOS developer.
Android's approach of Java + NDK and bridging between the two worlds with JNI calls seems far less adapt to games IMHO.
Objective-C has a learning curve with its method of attaching messages to object. It's a weird mixture of smalltalk style object orientation and C that I personally do not care for. If I have to write code using Objective-C, I will. However, given the option between Objective-C, java, and C#, Objective-C is dead last.
 

NemesisPrime

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Objective-C would have been an even better choice.
Now you are setting us up for a girlfight ;)

As a C/C++/C# expert I understand the arguments in favour of Objective-C, but the fight between C++ and Objective-C has gone on for zillions of pages on the internet.

I am more of a C++ fan TBH ;)
 

Durante

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I don't know, I think I actually prefer C#. Objective-C always seemed like a weird wanna-be Smalltalk to me. And in the recent versions of C# they added all the convenience features I want (particularly the lambda syntax for closures).

Ideally they'd have used C++11 of course.
 

ElFly

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C# is a weird ass choice. That's only gonna fragment more the dev base and rise costs. Should have gone with Java or more well known C variants.
 

Panajev2001a

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NemesisPrime said:
Now you are setting us up for a girlfight ;)

As a C/C++/C# expert I understand the arguments in favour of Objective-C, but the fight between C++ and Objective-C has gone on for zillions of pages on the internet.

I am more of a C++ fan TBH ;)
Girlfight? huh?

Anyways :),it is really down to personal preferences between C++ and Objective-C... I personally really LIKE its verbosity, but I agree that it is not perfect. No operator overloading like C++ and a worse Strings management approach compared to Java (in some ways... you cannot concatenate strings with a simple + operator, but not being able to decouple the string's formatting from the arguments is missed...

[NSString stringWithFormat:mad:"arg1 is %@ while arg2 is %@\n", arg1, arg2] and things like that are sometimes faster to write than "arg 1 is " + arg1 + " while arg2 is " + arg2 + "\n"

... at least IMHO). Many people say that C++ gives you a lot of rope to hang yourselves with btw, but they have not played much with something potentially very useful but also quite evil like autorelease ;).

I like it best because the verbosity of Objective-C, the way its code is quite self-documenting (unless you work against it :p), etc... fit me. The way I talk... and obviously write too :p.
 

Rolf NB

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I suppose this choice is because C# programs are easier to compile down to native machine code than Java. The compiler will probably still spit out a small Java program stub that delegates heavily to native code. All PSS certified devices are new enough to support NDK.
 

Ydahs

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Hmm, C#

Having experience in C, C++, obj-C and Java, how easy will this be to pick up?

Regardless, I'd love to get my hands on the SDK and port over my current iOS game I'm developing, but I don't have the couple of grand it'll likely cost.
 

Miutsu

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Ydahs said:
Hmm, C#

Having experience in C, C++, obj-C and Java, how easy will this be to pick up?

Regardless, I'd love to get my hands on the SDK and port over my current iOS game I'm developing, but I don't have the couple of grand it'll likely cost.
I came to C# from a Java background and the transition is as smooth as it can be, or at least that's how it was for me.
 

chubigans

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Lesiroth said:
Sony needs to stop delaying this. It's a great idea but they're trying their hardest to make it irrelevant.
Vita hasn't even launched yet. There's only one PS Certified device on the market today. It's launching early next year. Not sure what more you'd want. :p

Seems like an interesting program...hopefully I can make a few games for it soon!
 

Dilli666

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As somebody who has started C# two years ago I can only say: Hell yeah!
Can't wait to check out the SDK.
 

Panajev2001a

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Durante said:
String.format? Both java and C# have it.
You are right, brain fart. Sorry :p.

Ok, I surrender that Java is superior to Objective-C for processing strings :p. Still, not too too superior :).
 

Durante

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Miutsu said:
I came to C# from a Java background and the transition is as smooth as it can be, or at least that's how it was for me.
Going the other way around (eg. to develop for Android) is a lot worse, you really miss some of those C# conveniences when they're gone.

Panajev2001a said:
You are right, brain fart. Sorry :p.

Ok, I surrender that Java is superior to Objective-C for processing strings :p. Still, not too too superior :).
I'd say all 3 of these languages suck for processing strings, try Ruby :p

But this is getting terribly OT.
 

duckroll

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http://www.famitsu.com/news/201109/15050273.html

The Playstation Store for PS Certified devices will have 25 titles when it launches later this year. The pricing has not been determined.

List of games:
- Arc the Lad
- Addie's Present
- Alundra
- Gunner's Heaven
- Ganbare Morikawa-kun 2nd
- Crime Crackers
- Crash Bandicoot
- Jet Moto
- Tiny Bullets
- Destruction Derby
- Docchimo Mechamecha
- Bealphareth
- PoPoLoCrois
- Magical Dice Kids
- Everybody's Golf 2
- MediEvil
- Rally Cross
- Wild Arms
- Wild Arms 2nd Ignition
- DEPTH
- KulaQuest
- I.Q Intelligent Qube
- Jumping Flash
- PHILOSOMA
- XI[sai]
 

jcm

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Sony's dev tools for Vita are built for Visual Studio, so it's not too surprising they didn't pick Java.

Panajev2001a said:
[NSString stringWithFormat:mad:"arg1 is %@ while arg2 is %@\n", arg1, arg2] and things like that are sometimes faster to write than "arg 1 is " + arg1 + " while arg2 is " + arg2 + "\n"
In C# you can do String.Format("arg1 is {0} while arg2 is{1}\n", arg1, arg2); if you want. Concatenation performs better, though, if you're counting milliseconds.


Ydahs said:
Hmm, C#

Having experience in C, C++, obj-C and Java, how easy will this be to pick up?

Regardless, I'd love to get my hands on the SDK and port over my current iOS game I'm developing, but I don't have the couple of grand it'll likely cost.
Very easy. For all of the religious wars, the difference between C# and Java is mostly syntax. And I like VS more than any other IDE I've used (and I've used a bunch).
 

Midou

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ElFly said:
C# is a weird ass choice. That's only gonna fragment more the dev base and rise costs. Should have gone with Java or more well known C variants.
Not really, C# development is really wide spread now. Language choice is pretty irrelevant anyways, C# is a lot like Java, if you know one, you can figure out the other, then there is just learning the libraries and such.
 

Lesiroth

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duckroll said:
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201109/15050273.html

The Playstation Store for PS Certified devices will have 25 titles when it launches later this year. The pricing has not been determined.

List of games:
- Arc the Lad
- Addie's Present
- Alundra
- Gunner's Heaven
- Ganbare Morikawa-kun 2nd
- Crime Crackers
- Crash Bandicoot
- Jet Moto
- Tiny Bullets
- Destruction Derby
- Docchimo Mechamecha
- Bealphareth
- PoPoLoCrois
- Magical Dice Kids
- Everybody's Golf 2
- MediEvil
- Rally Cross
- Wild Arms
- Wild Arms 2nd Ignition
- DEPTH
- KulaQuest
- I.Q Intelligent Qube
- Jumping Flash
- PHILOSOMA
- XI[sai]
Are all of these PSX titles? I can't tell.