PS Suite news - C# SDK coming November, content distribution from Spring 2012

Kinitari

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Feb 10, 2008
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Hoorah, I've been learning a lot of programming, but C# was the first, and therefore the most comfortable language for me. Java still feels weird to me, needing to make a scanner object to read user input seems so unnecessary.
 

Man

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C# also taps into the whole XNA developer scene. The graphics libraries are completely different etc but still it should be easy for those to jump back and forth.
 

Miutsu

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Man said:
C# also taps into the whole XNA developer scene. The graphics libraries are completely different etc but still it should be easy for those to jump back and forth.
Yeah that's what I have been thinking, if the games programmed in XNA are made using wrappers for the XNA libraries or something of sorts then porting between the two enviorments should be less trouble.
 

Bulzeeb

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Feb 11, 2011
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Alx said:
What's with all those C# SDKs ? Real men use C and C++... :p
but I like C# is easier to migrate from java imo :p anyways, great news, might give this a try someday :p
 

Dega

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Wow, C# is unexpected. That's pretty cool though if I decide to make stuff with this.
 

jeff_rigby

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Completely out of my depth here but found this just published :

http://linguisticslearner.blogspot.com/2011/09/mono-touch-and-mono-for-android.html

There were other reasons as well. Mono always tried to target those developers who had C# skills and now wanted to create enterprise or other applications on other platforms e.g. Mac, Linux. Mono promised to provide support for porting existing .Net applications, to develop new ones, and to provide commercial support for Suse Linux Enterprise. The same theme was carried forward when Mono moved to Mono Touch.

The idea is fairly simple, as the website also states that "use existing skills to create native iOS applications". They had good experience in joining C code of GTK with C# code of Mono to create GTK#, and joining other Gnome APIs to C# Mono framework. They've used the expertise to link Objective-C to existing Mono framework. You write in C# but the code generation would be in Objective-C. That's very cool idea, you do not have to re-learn Objective-C and a hell lot of APIs specific to iOS platform. Simply use Monodevelop to create an App and deploy it on the App Store.

Same is the case with Mono for Android. A few years back there were efforts to convert Java code to C#, and vice versa using IKVM and this was used on Mono also. Developers might be still using this technology to call Java APIs through Mono on a C# application. But the point here to mention was that Mono is trying to do something similar regarding Mono for Android. Most of the code for Android is in Java, so the Apps require Java and Google's platform specific APIs for Android. Mono for Android provides same thing here as well, as it does for iOS. It translates the code written in C# to one that is acceptable by Android.
EDIT: Opps, the last paragraph in the above is no longer accurate as of the Feb 2011 Mono update. Before the Android NDK/SDK and the NACL sandbox, Mono had to do the above. Now Mono is permitted to run in a sandbox on Android and can but does not have to convert to Android bytecode for all functions.

"They had good experience in joining C code of GTK with C# code of Mono to create GTK#, and joining other Gnome APIs to C# Mono framework. They've used the expertise to link Objective-C to existing Mono framework. You write in C# but the code generation would be in Objective-C. That's very cool idea, you do not have to re-learn Objective-C"
The above applies for iOS.

The GTKwebkit port coming to the PS3 uses most of the Gnome 3.2 desktop shell libraries (essentially Gnome Mobile) and I believe Vita the same.
 

AranhaHunter

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Is there an Xperia Play 2 in the cards (and coming to Sprint)? My next mobile handheld will be either that or the iphone. If the pssuite takes off I'll get this, otherwise iphone.
 

androvsky

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I wonder if Sony will allow free open-source games, like Ur-Quan Masters (aka Star Control 2), I'd love to be able to play that on the Vita. Now I just have to hope the SDK doesn't cost too much and is a little better suited to games development than the Android one.
 
Jul 15, 2009
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As someone with Java skills and no C/++ skills, I remember looking at C# and thinking it was really easy. So I personally look forward to this quite a bit.

And just because they went with C# doesn't mean it's going to do anything to do with Java and Dalvik. Sony could probably add their own virtual machine, or (less likely since it'll only work with PS certified devices) it could compile to native ARM code via the NDK.
 

theBishop

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Blech @ C#...

Python would be better. I'm assuming they're using Mono for their runtime. Wouldn't be my pick.
 

Shai-Tan

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non gaming developers.. as in general app development? I'd write something if I could get it on Vita as well
 

Tenkei

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I'm glad to see that Sony is choosing C# for its SDK. I've used so many tricks involving closures, strongly-typed generics, coroutines, and LINQ in XNA development that it would feel like a waste not being able to use those here.
 

An-Det

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Jun 27, 2008
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That's good news, and makes sense since it will allow them to utilize the existing xna/etc base.

Also, fuck yeah c#.
 

TheSeks

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Feb 14, 2009
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gofreak said:
Were they showing you can do multiplayer across all devices with it?
No, that's a PSP2 + that Android gaming phone. They're showing that the PSP2 + Android phones are able to use PSX games across both platforms due to Suite or whatever.

I seriously doubt they've emulated local play via wifi but I would eat my hat and be extremely happy if that was the case.

Also I.Q.: Intelligent Qube confirmed to be hitting the store in the next few weeks/months?
 
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Really happy about the choice to use C#. Should make moving code from Unity to PS Suite nice and easy.

Hopefully Unity3D will export to Vita very soon anyway.
 

ksimm

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Cool I have my head in a Head First C# book right now, was looking to do some indie UNITY games later.

OOP is fun! *cough*
 

Ydahs

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theBishop said:
Blech @ C#...

Python would be better. I'm assuming they're using Mono for their runtime. Wouldn't be my pick.
Isn't Python interpreted? I would have loved if it were Python too, but it's not the best language for game development.
 
Jul 18, 2008
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I am a Java developer, but I have had to maintain C# code and then port it to Java and it was a breeze. The syntax is very similar and easy to understand. There are aspects of C# I liked much better than Java as well. All in all syntactically it is probably an easier language to use. That's not to say there aren't aspects of Java that I like better though. The reason I prefer Java, in the end, is because I just think Eclipse is a better IDE than Visual Studio. Maybe it's because I'm so used to Eclipse, I'm not sure, but I found Visual Studio much more cumbersome.
 

jcm

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theBishop said:
Blech @ C#...

Python would be better. I'm assuming they're using Mono for their runtime. Wouldn't be my pick.
Why would Python be better?
 

njr

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C#??? That just seems so odd as it was created by MS, and the fact that I've never used outside of developing sites/windows forms/XNA. I haven't used C# under mono before, but either way it's still a good language to start off programming.
 

Xane

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Hehe, I think you've all been missing the important part.

*1 Software Development Kit is a set of development tools and software libraries. Developers are able to obtain this SDK by signing a license agreement with SCE and by purchasing tool products.
Yeah.. not really Indie-friendly if this ends up being $2.000+.
Other than that I am really looking forward to it. My C# and XNA skills are pretty decent.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
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Xane said:
Hehe, I think you've all been missing the important part.


Yeah.. not really Indie-friendly if this ends up being $2.000+.
Other than that I am really looking forward to it. My C# and XNA skills are pretty decent.
It shouldn't cost anything like that. I think even full on Vita dev kits are cheaper than that! It'll probably be a fairly small fee, I hope.

Think a bigger thing will be whether you have to get ESRB/PEGI rating etc. etc.
 

desu

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Aug 9, 2009
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Best news of TGS.

Anyway I guess apps that are done for PS Suite have to be distributed to ALL certified systems? Its just that this means touch controls only which would suck big time, if you coud limit it to psp/vita that would be much better (but I guess then you rather should get a real vita dev kit <.<?).
 

AranhaHunter

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Mar 20, 2006
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duckroll said:
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201109/15050273.html

The Playstation Store for PS Certified devices will have 25 titles when it launches later this year. The pricing has not been determined.

List of games:
- Arc the Lad
- Addie's Present
- Alundra
- Gunner's Heaven
- Ganbare Morikawa-kun 2nd
- Crime Crackers
- Crash Bandicoot
- Jet Moto
- Tiny Bullets
- Destruction Derby
- Docchimo Mechamecha
- Bealphareth
- PoPoLoCrois
- Magical Dice Kids
- Everybody's Golf 2
- MediEvil
- Rally Cross
- Wild Arms
- Wild Arms 2nd Ignition
- DEPTH
- KulaQuest
- I.Q Intelligent Qube
- Jumping Flash
- PHILOSOMA
- XI[sai]
Sounds like you have to buy it twice.
 

Massa

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Jan 16, 2009
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D4Danger said:
C# was the original plan for Android but Google decided to risk using their own version of Java instead (and now they're being sued by Oracle because of it)
Kinda OT, but it's not like Microsoft would've been any better. They're already threatening and collecting royalties from Android vendors as it is, can you imagine if Google had used C#?
 

Man

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Rolf NB said:
OpenGL ES surely. Imgtech has this already built and highly refined. What else could it even be?
PS(PlayStation)GL is a customized and extended version of OpenGl 1 (PS3 uses this).
PS Suite could be using ES 2.0 or it might be something custom.
 

Lionheart

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Massa said:
Kinda OT, but it's not like Microsoft would've been any better. They're already threatening and collecting royalties from Android vendors as it is, can you imagine if Google had used C#?
That is totally unrelated though. Using a programming language (that has open, free implementations) versus infringing patents.

Very interesting though, really interested to see what the price of entry will be. :)
 

panda21

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this is weird.

interesting because it means (unless they are insane and have written their c# interpreter in java) the PS suite itself must be running in native code on the device, which i don't think regular android apps are allowed to do.

and it must be interpreting/JIT the c# bytecode to native, which is what android does with java already. so why not just make them regular android apps?
 

desu

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Interesting, still wondering about the limitations (like having to support all devices). Looking forward to more info.
 

zomgbbqftw

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AranhaHunter said:
Sounds like you have to buy it twice.
That's not confirmed yet. Sony may have some way to transfer licenses to PS Suite for games we already own, maybe automatically which is why the new licence agreement terms came out.
 

jeff_rigby

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Aug 7, 2010
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Man said:
PSVita TGS Keynote is now uploaded to YouTube.
You can watch the PS Suite part here, they demonstrate a 3D game as well as the GUI component library:

http://www.youtube.com/user/OkpaProductions#p/u/0/fHLAfRztF0k
What I noticed was Closed platform closed source mentioned several times. From what I understand there are several ways to support cross platform games and applications but they are open source. Did Sony write a JITengine just for PS Suite, they certainly have the experience to do so now with a PS1 and PSP emulator on the PS3 and a PSP emulator on the Vita as well as having ported JSC to both the PS3 and Vita. Could be Mono as several people have speculated in this thread but from what I have read, that incurs significant fees for use in a game console.

Sony is supporting Air applications and has a contest for the best written for the Android S & P which would be sold through the Sony store. They appear to be fragmented or are covering all the bases to see which works. Samsung announced a similar Air contest for their platforms more than 6 months ago but offered twice as much.
 

UntoldDreams

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panda21 said:
this is weird.

interesting because it means (unless they are insane and have written their c# interpreter in java) the PS suite itself must be running in native code on the device, which i don't think regular android apps are allowed to do.

and it must be interpreting/JIT the c# bytecode to native, which is what android does with java already. so why not just make them regular android apps?
Android apps are Dalvik so its just a c# compiler which emits Dalvik bytecode upon compiling. Its nothing "complex" like what you are saying.