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PS1 imports on EU PSN not running at 60 Hz?

Tizoc

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Jun 23, 2010
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gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
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Dunno if it's relevant, but my JPN PS3 refuses to play EU PS1 games due to a video output incompatibility...
 

YianGaruga

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Jun 1, 2009
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Wow, this is ridiculous. All they have to do is take the file from the US store and use that one. They work perfectly. Instead we get
Hi guys,

Sorry or the delay in getting back to you, we have just been waiting on information from the Store team.

Unfortunately the slow down issue with this title is not going to be fixed. If any of you feel the game is unplayable or you want to request a refund then you can contact your local PlayStation Support for further assistance.
Never bought PSX title from EU PSN and never will. 50Hz is the worst thing that ever happened to gaming in the PSX/PS2 generation.
Dunno if it's relevant, but my JPN PS3 refuses to play EU PS1 games due to a video output incompatibility...
This si also ridiculous, since HDTVs play pretty much every format there is.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Jun 22, 2004
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YianGaruga said:
This si also ridiculous, since HDTVs play pretty much every format there is.
So do the PS3s - it's some bizarre artificial restriction.
"Any" 50hz Pal encoded content on NTSC machine will refuse to play with same error : games, DVDs, even BluRay SD content on official NTSC release BluRays. Region agnostic - it will fail even on region-free DVD played from a USB-stick.
But - if you open a file-view instead and directly open one of the video-files (bypassing the DVD menu) - the content will play without problems. The said PS1 PAL games play just fine on PSPs as well...
 

Ushojax

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This is why I'm so glad I got an NTSC Wii. Fuck the PAL Virtual Console.
 

dose

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Jul 15, 2004
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Sorry if this was already discussed but I only recently read about this while trying to get a resolution to a problem that re-surfaced with my PS3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DCEhbUUxFI
http://community.eu.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-3-Technical-Help/Import-version-of-Alundra-runs-at-50-Hz/td-p/16810388
Anyone else notice this? (Note that I've not purchased any of the EU Import PSX titles...primarely because my Vita uses my US account).
That's pretty shitty. Especially if they're advertising them as the 60hz versions.
 

Famassu

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Sep 11, 2010
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I assume this is a PS3 only issue? Haven't noticed any issues on Vita.

Wow, this is ridiculous. All they have to do is take the file from the US store and use that one. They work perfectly. Instead we get
THese games ARE files from the US Store, at least I assume they are, given that a game like Arc the Lad was never released in Europe, so there's no EU version to be used. Seems like the issues come from something in PS3's hardware and/or OS/emulation.
 

Neff

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This is why I'm so glad I got an NTSC Wii. Fuck the PAL Virtual Console.
I'll be particularly keen to see how the Wii U handles VC in Europe. Games being in their natively-designed 60hz rather than suffering bastardized 50hz imitations will make the difference between old-school collectors like myself happily spending spending hundreds on classic games, or spending... nothing.

50hz games don't need to exist anymore. It's disgraceful.
 

Naked Snake

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Sorta related: I was wondering if there are ANY differences (other than load times/convenience) to playing PSOne Classics from PSN versus playing the game off the original disc (on PS3)?
 

LiquidSolid

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Aug 15, 2010
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Dunno if it's relevant, but my JPN PS3 refuses to play EU PS1 games due to a video output incompatibility...
That's never been possible. For some stupid reason, Sony didn't bother letting NTSC (US or JPN) PS3's display at 50Hz.

I assume this is a PS3 only issue? Haven't noticed any issues on Vita.

THese games ARE files from the US Store, at least I assume they are, given that a game like Arc the Lad was never released in Europe, so there's no EU version to be used. Seems like the issues come from something in PS3's hardware and/or OS/emulation.
Except that people with PAL PS3's have bought PS1 games from the US PSN and they've ran at 60Hz, so no. SCEE quite clearly tried to fuck around with the CD images to get them to run at 50Hz, essentially gimping them. I think I'll be asking for a refund for Klonoa. Fuck you SCEE.

I just gave RE2 and RE3 a try and they run at 60Hz. Alundra however, doesn't. Anyone got Arc the Lad 2 and 3 and want to try them out? I assume they won't because SCEE are FUCKING MORONS.

Edit: Where the hell's Vic? Maybe if we complain to MonkeyPaw and him enough, they'll try to get them fixed.
 

KennyLinder

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May 11, 2007
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Sorry if this was already discussed but I only recently read about this while trying to get a resolution to a problem that re-surfaced with my PS3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DCEhbUUxFI
http://community.eu.playstation.com/t5/PlayStation-3-Technical-Help/Import-version-of-Alundra-runs-at-50-Hz/td-p/16810388
Anyone else notice this? (Note that I've not purchased any of the EU Import PSX titles...primarely because my Vita uses my US account).
Resident Evil 2 is advertised as the US NTSC version and thankfully it is.
 

KennyLinder

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I'll be particularly keen to see how the Wii U handles VC in Europe. Games being in their natively-designed 60hz rather than suffering bastardized 50hz imitations will make the difference between old-school collectors like myself happily spending spending hundreds on classic games, or spending... nothing.

50hz games don't need to exist anymore. It's disgraceful.
It will play PAL games. You know it will. Nintendo won't want to localise every US NTSC game when they already exist in PAL form.
 

MadFuzzy

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Jun 8, 2004
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That's never been possible. For some stupid reason, Sony didn't bother letting NTSC (US or JPN) PS3's display at 50Hz.
I used to have this problem with PAL PS1 titles on a Japanese PS3 but it went away when I got a new TV that could do 1080p at 50hz (my old one refused to play them at 720p or 1080i).
 

Number45

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Never bought PSX title from EU PSN and never will. 50Hz is the worst thing that ever happened to gaming in the PSX/PS2 generation.
As far as I'm aware this affected all EU consoles during this period, right? Unavoidable because of the TV standards, and I guess the majority of developers/publishers didn't want to invest in the optimisation process. :(

I'll be particularly keen to see how the Wii U handles VC in Europe. Games being in their natively-designed 60hz rather than suffering bastardized 50hz imitations will make the difference between old-school collectors like myself happily spending spending hundreds on classic games, or spending... nothing.

50hz games don't need to exist anymore. It's disgraceful.
This is me as well. I originally bought an NTSC Wii, but I'm done with importing now and i won't touch any VC titles that aren't 60Hz or optimised.
 

Galdelico

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I feel your disappointment Tizoc, but thank you for having brought this thing up: I've never purchased import PSone Classics from EU Store, and never will.
 

Famassu

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Except that people with PAL PS3's have bought PS1 games from the US PSN and they've ran at 60Hz, so no. SCEE quite clearly tried to fuck around with the CD images to get them to run at 50Hz, essentially gimping them. I think I'll be asking for a refund for Klonoa. Fuck you SCEE.

I just gave RE2 and RE3 a try and they run at 60Hz. Alundra however, doesn't. Anyone got Arc the Lad 2 and 3 and want to try them out? I assume they won't because SCEE are FUCKING MORONS.

Edit: Where the hell's Vic? Maybe if we complain to MonkeyPaw and him enough, they'll try to get them fixed.
Well, again, Arc the Lad was never released in Europe and it's not published by Sony, so I don't see why SCEE would have anything to do with it running badly. Why would they deliberately gimp games, especially ones not their own and ones that don't even have a gimped version in the first place? I know it's cool to think Sony and all the other evil corporations are always out to get you, but I really don't see why Sony would do any of this. Same goes for Klonoa (it's a Namco Bandai game). Also, I've had no problems with Alundra (on Vita), so the problem clearly isn't in the game files, but maybe something with the PS3 itself.
 

Tizoc

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I sorta feel bad for buying PSX games off EU PSN...altho I have yet to notice the 50 Hz-ness in MGS1 (which i plan to re-purchase off US PSN when it goes on sale) and other PSX games I got off EU PSN.
Regardless I plan on getting PSX games from US PSN from now on.
 

Galdelico

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I sorta feel bad for buying PSX games off EU PSN...altho I have yet to notice the 50 Hz-ness in MGS1 (which i plan to re-purchase off US PSN when it goes on sale) and other PSX games I got off EU PSN.
Regardless I plan on getting PSX games from US PSN from now on.
My rule with EU Store is to get only those PSone Classics which were originally developed in Europe, so native PAL50 (WipEout, to name the first one I can think of).
For everything else, I just look at US/JP Store.
 

Ein Bear

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Don't Nintendo at least PAL optimise their Virtual Console releases? I thought it was just Mega Drive games on that service that were borked?
 

Fafalada

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Jun 22, 2004
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LiquidSolid said:
That's never been possible. For some stupid reason, Sony didn't bother letting NTSC (US or JPN) PS3's display at 50Hz.
As I posted above - the ironic thing is that it "does" work if you play content through just regular media player, so it's not even a consistent restriction.
 

Jucksalbe

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Oct 31, 2007
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Yup, it's pretty stupid. I can at least confirm that this is also the case for Arc the Lad 2,3 and Arena and also Shienryu and GaiaSeed.
The only import (I know of) that doesn't do it is Resident Evil 3.

Dunno if it's relevant, but my JPN PS3 refuses to play EU PS1 games due to a video output incompatibility...
I have no problems playing EU 50Hz games on my JP PS3. Maybe they changed that with newer models?
 

Kazuma Kiryu

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Apr 19, 2008
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Wow, this is ridiculous. All they have to do is take the file from the US store and use that one. They work perfectly. Instead we get

Never bought PSX title from EU PSN and never will. 50Hz is the worst thing that ever happened to gaming in the PSX/PS2 generation.

This si also ridiculous, since HDTVs play pretty much every format there is.
are we forgetting the previous generations?
 

SappYoda

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Jan 24, 2007
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I see they have marked it as solved and that is not very classy from their part.

The thing is that those versions are even worse than the ones we got in EU, because games released in EU were 50 Hz but modified so that the experience could be as close as possible. This version just run at 50 Hz without making any alteration whatsoever to the speed of the game resulting in a constant slowdown effect present 100% of the time. Just being a tad slow butchers Alundra's town music into something I could not bare to continue to play.

If some imports really run at 60 Hz maybe it only affects Monkey Paw Games games?

I sent them an email just before starting that thread in playstation support and never recieved a reply. I wonder what's the issue preventing them to force the PS3 to run the game at 60 Hz since the games seem to perform normally both on Vita and PSP.

I sincerely hope they fix the issue.
 

Jucksalbe

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Oct 31, 2007
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If some imports really run at 60 Hz maybe it only affects Monkey Paw Games games?
It's hard to say because there are so few imports besides the ones from MonkeyPaw. Was Klonoa released by MonkeyPaw? It says NamcoBandai on the store.
 

Jucksalbe

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Oct 31, 2007
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Fuck sake. But somehow they manage it on Wii? Thanks anyway.
Ah, you're right. Forget they did that on the Wii. So then, please SquareEnix, Europe is still missing Chrono Cross, Legend of Mana, Xenogears, Threads of Fate and Parasite Eve.

Edit: sorry, for the double post.
 

LiquidSolid

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Aug 15, 2010
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Well, again, Arc the Lad was never released in Europe and it's not published by Sony, so I don't see why SCEE would have anything to do with it running badly. Why would they deliberately gimp games, especially ones not their own and ones that don't even have a gimped version in the first place? I know it's cool to think Sony and all the other evil corporations are always out to get you, but I really don't see why Sony would do any of this. Same goes for Klonoa (it's a Namco Bandai game). Also, I've had no problems with Alundra (on Vita), so the problem clearly isn't in the game files, but maybe something with the PS3 itself.
Because Sony are the ones that do the entire process? Figuring out if there are legal issues, QA and wrapping the disc images up in whatever wrapper they've created for their emulator. Or do you seriously think it was MonkeyPaw that released the Japanese version of Arc the Lad on the SCEE PSN originally?

I sorta feel bad for buying PSX games off EU PSN...altho I have yet to notice the 50 Hz-ness in MGS1 (which i plan to re-purchase off US PSN when it goes on sale) and other PSX games I got off EU PSN.
Regardless I plan on getting PSX games from US PSN from now on.
You won't notice any differences in MGS1 because it was localised properly. They optimised it to run at 50Hz and display at 576i. Buying the US version would be absolutely pointless.
 

SappYoda

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Jan 24, 2007
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New update from Sony Support

RabidWalker said:
Hi guys,

I'm sorry for the issues you have encountered with the game.

I have fed back the comments and the issues you have all raised here to our store team to let them know of the experience you have all had with this.

When I have more information available for you I will update here.

Thanks,

Rabid
--


Well, I've already asked for refunds for Klonoa and Alundra, so if they eventually fix these issues, I guess I'll just re-buy them. If not, well fuck SCEE.
Yep, that might be the best way to aproach this issue.
 

LiquidSolid

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Aug 15, 2010
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Well, I've already asked for refunds for Klonoa and Alundra, so if they eventually fix these issues, I guess I'll just re-buy them. If not, well fuck SCEE.
 

Famassu

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Because Sony are the ones that do the entire process? Figuring out if there are legal issues, QA and wrapping the disc images up in whatever wrapper they've created for their emulator. Or do you seriously think it was MonkeyPaw that released the Japanese version of Arc the Lad on the SCEE PSN originally?
And yet again, Alundra works just fine on Vita (and apparently PSP). The issue isn't in SCEE or MonkeyPaw or any other Evil Corporation fucking with you, but something in how PS3 emulates the games. Or something.

I mean, COME ON, doing something to these games to make them run badly instead of just releasing them as is would require MORE WORK which equals to MORE MONEY SPENT. Why on Earth would they do that when it's a guaranteed shitstorm in their way once people figure it out?


Can't really comment on how the Arc the Lad mistake happened, but that wasn't intentional and I guess it could just be a result of a simple human error that isn't in any way comparable to what you're experiencing with these games.
 

SappYoda

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And yet again, Alundra works just fine on Vita (and apparently PSP). The issue isn't in SCEE or MonkeyPaw or any other Evil Corporation fucking with you, but something in how PS3 emulates the games. Or something.

I mean, COME ON, doing something to these games to make them run badly instead of just releasing them as is would require MORE WORK which equals to MORE MONEY SPENT. Why on Earth would they do that when it's a guaranteed shitstorm in their way once people figure it out?


Can't really comment on how the Arc the Lad mistake happened, but that wasn't intentional and I guess it could just be a result of a simple human error that isn't in any way comparable to what you're experiencing with these games.
Of course it's not intentional. That never was the train of thought imo. The problem started when we were told that the issue was not going to be fixed and offered refunds, while they keep releasing broken games.
 

Lettuce

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50Hz is the worst thing that ever happened to gaming in the PSX/PS2 generation.
You obviously wasnt about in the SNES/Mega Drive days. The PAL version of Street Fighter II on the SNES was a joke, massive black borders at the top and bottom of the screen and it was so slow!, i couldnt believe the difference when i went into my local Indie shop 'Select Consoles' back in the day and saw the Japanese version running in all its full screen/full speed glory!!
 

Neff

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It will play PAL games. You know it will. Nintendo won't want to localise every US NTSC game when they already exist in PAL form.
I'm 90% sure it'll be PAL only. But I'm holding onto the hope that Nintendo now understands the appreciation of their NTSC-perfect 3DS VC titles.
 

LiquidSolid

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And yet again, Alundra works just fine on Vita (and apparently PSP). The issue isn't in SCEE or MonkeyPaw or any other Evil Corporation fucking with you, but something in how PS3 emulates the games. Or something.

I mean, COME ON, doing something to these games to make them run badly instead of just releasing them as is would require MORE WORK which equals to MORE MONEY SPENT. Why on Earth would they do that when it's a guaranteed shitstorm in their way once people figure it out?


Can't really comment on how the Arc the Lad mistake happened, but that wasn't intentional and I guess it could just be a result of a simple human error that isn't in any way comparable to what you're experiencing with these games.
Seeing as they said they weren't going to fix the issues, clearly they a) Didn't think people would care and b) Didn't intend to do any more work anyway!

The PS3 uses the exact same emulator Sony's been using for almost a decade now, so blaming it on the emulator is completely ridiculous. I mean really, how on earth do you think Americans have been playing the game up till now if it were the emulators fault?

The only possible way I could see this being a mistake is if they fucked up the encoding and set the PS3 emulator to only run it at 50Hz but in that case, it'd still be SCEE's fault! Especially seeing as this shit has been happening since JANUARY! They'd be setting a new record for incompetence.
 

Jucksalbe

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Oct 31, 2007
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Same problem with the newly released Tombi!. They really don't seem to care about this problem.

Also, I can confirm that this doesn't seem to be a problem on the Vita. I tried GaiaSeed on both the PS3 and Vita and the Vita version is clearly running at 60Hz. Sadly, Tombi! doesn't work on the Vita so far.
 

FrozenCell

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more than decade old PC emulators already did 60Hz, today you can even connect PS3 controller with USB and have your comfty couch experience with superior filtering & AA
 

SappYoda

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A few things I've noticed:

  • Tomba! Does not warn you about needing a 60 Hz diplay. Alundra still does.
  • They have added a warning in the description, that basically says that the product, since it's emulated, may not perform like the original. (Can someone write what it says in the UK store? I only have a Spanish account).
  • They have edited out the message in the support forums, were they told the users to ask for a refund, because the issue was not going to be fixed.

So if I want PSone games on the go I have to deal with crap 50hz/bordered versions from the EU Store (i'm guessing)

They should just offer up the entire ntsc/us collection on the EU store.
Crap 50Hz/ bordered versions is how I originally played them so I don't mind. The problem is that those "US Import" version are even worse than crap 50 Hz/bordered because they don't even run at full speed.

Sounds like it might be a firmware bug to me. SCEE are probably dependent on a fix from Japan.
There's been 5 firmware updates since Arc The Lad was released. At least 1 firmware update since that thread in Playstation Support about Alundra started.
Also if it was a firmware bug they could try to fake the game id into, I dunno, for example, Syphon Filter US making the emulator think its a NTSC game forcing it to display at 60 Hz.
 

Withnail

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Sounds like it might be a firmware bug to me. SCEE are probably dependent on a fix from Japan.
 

Pallaris

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The bullshit thing is I can't transfer my US PSN purchased PSone games to my Vita due to the single account thing. (My main account is UK)

So if I want PSone games on the go I have to deal with crap 50hz/bordered versions from the EU Store (i'm guessing)

They should just offer up the entire ntsc/us collection on the EU store.