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[Jucksalbe]

• They have added a warning in the description, that basically says that the product, since it's emulated, may not perform like the original. (Can someone write what it says in the UK store? I only have a Spanish account).

It says

This product is an emulated version of a PlayStation (PS one) classic. Some functionality may vary from the original (PS one) version of this product or may not be available.

But that warning has always been there. But cutting out the 60hz part is a bit sneaky, although technically it's true.

 

[Withnail]

The bullshit thing is I can't transfer my US PSN purchased PSone games to my Vita due to the single account thing. (My main account is UK)

So if I want PSone games on the go I have to deal with crap 50hz/bordered versions from the EU Store (i'm guessing)

They should just offer up the entire ntsc/us collection on the EU store.

This is nothing to do with PAL conversions. SCEE has been putting NTSC games on the EU store but for some reason the PS3 is playing them at 50Hz.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I don't notice anything! This stuff always makes me feel stupid, because the game seems fine. It plays OK. It's Tomba, it's awesome.

 

[Jucksalbe]

I don't notice anything!

If you really don't notice it...well, good for you. But one easy thing to do: Listen to the music, then compare it to how it should be (I guess there should be videos on YouTube). If you still can't notice a difference, nobody can help you.

 

[Hot Coldman]

If you really don't notice it...well, good for you. But one easy thing to do: Listen to the music, then compare it to how it should be (I guess there should be videos on YouTube). If you still can't notice a difference, nobody can help you.

Hell no! I'm not doing that, because then I'll notice a difference and it'll bug the shit out of me when playing it.

I'll go back and check when I've beaten it.

 

[LiquidSolid]

Alright, so I emailed SCEE about 2 weeks ago asking for a refund and finally got a response this morning:

Thank you for your recent call.

Although it is true that the description mentions that the games runs at 60hz when in fact it runs at 50hz (the description will be modified to reflect this shortly) our test team have investigated this issue and the title does not seem to suffer from any noticeable slowdown issues and there doesn't seem to be anything that would suggest a bad consumer experience.

They tested the title on 50hz and 60hz 576p/720p on CRT and LCD TVs

Can you please advise the settings your TV has at the moment?

So in other words, they've no intention of fixing this and they're just going to change the descriptions and try to shrug it off.

My response:

My TV is 60Hz 720p LCD but what does that matter? You've just admitted that they run at 50Hz, which is the entire issue.

No noticeable slowdown? Simple math tells me you and your testers are completely wrong. The games are programmed to run at 60 frames per second because they're NTSC-US releases, but they're being forced to run at 50 frames per second by whatever SCEE have done to them. The end result of this is that they run a sixth slower than they should and this is blatantly obvious. Music, video and gameplay are all noticeably slower, solely because of this issue. And if you'd like to know what kind of effect this has, well for every six hours of gameplay played at normal speed (60Hz), an entire hour is added when running at 50Hz. Or in other words, if it took you six hours to reach a spot in the normal version, it'd take you 7 hours to reach the same spot in the version SCEE have released.

The fact that SCEE is trying to shrug this off as a non-issue and lie about there being no difference is disgusting. You're purposefully releasing games that are inferior to their original releases, unlike Nintendo, who've released import titles that actually run properly.

And as for the description, well seeing as I bought those games when they were being advertised as 60Hz, it's still as false advertising regardless of whatever changes you make now.

Fix them so that they run properly or give me a refund. Simple.

 

[Jucksalbe]

They obviously don't understand the problem. I can't believe them when they say they tested the games. Either they didn't or they looked for actual drops in the framerate.
Whatever they did, it's stupid.

I can't even imagine that this is much of a problem to fix. I'd guess there should be flag that tells the emulator to run in 60Hz. It's astonishing that all these games managed to pass the SCEE QA.

 

[butanebob]

The PAL version of Street Fighter II on the SNES was a joke, massive black borders at the top and bottom of the screen and it was so slow!, i couldnt believe the difference when i went into my local Indie shop 'Select Consoles' back in the day and saw the Japanese version running in all its full screen/full speed glory!!

All the versions had border. The NTSC ones were just not as bad.

 

[Number45]

Alright, so I emailed SCEE about 2 weeks ago asking for a refund and finally got a response this morning:


So in other words, they've no intention of fixing this and they're just going to change the descriptions and try to shrug it off.

My response:

I'm with you on this in principle, but:

he fact that SCEE is trying to shrug this off as a non-issue and lie about there being no difference is disgusting.

... isn't what they're saying here at all:

our test team have investigated this issue and the title does not seem to suffer from any noticeable slowdown issues and there doesn't seem to be anything that would suggest a bad consumer experience.

All they're saying is that the game is playable, which I would imagine it is.

 

[YianGaruga]

does not seem to suffer from any noticeable slowdown

This is the lie. If you compare the games side by side the difference is obvious. It's about 17% slower, which is a lot.

And yeah, fixing it should be ridiculously easy, since PSOne games from US accounts run fine. Sony just doesn't care for some reason.

 

[Jucksalbe]

All they're saying is that the game is playable, which I would imagine it is.

I'd argue that playing a game in slow motion is a "bad consumer experience".

 

[Number45]

I'd argue that playing a game in slow motion is a "bad consumer experience".

But unless you see it side by side with something running the game at full speed, you wouldn't notice (unless you were aware in advance, of course). I barely imported in the 16-bit days, and I still had a huge amount of fun with SNES SF2 and many other games that are apparently bad consumer experiences in comparison with the NTSC counterparts.

 

[BradleyLove]

Can anyone summarise?

NTSC PS1 titles bought from US Store run at 60hz on PAL PS3's: Yes or No?

NTSC PS1 titles bought from EU Store run at 50hz on PAL PS3's: Yes or No?

 

[Number45]

The latter.

 

[Jucksalbe]

NTSC PS1 titles bought from US Store run at 60hz on PAL PS3's: Yes or No?

Yes.

NTSC PS1 titles bought from EU Store run at 50hz on PAL PS3's: Yes or No?

Except for the RE games, yes.

It also doesn't matter if you have a PAL PS3 or not. It's entirely dependant on which version you bought (games from the EU store are 50Hz even on an NTSC console).

 

[Number45]

It also doesn't matter if you have a PAL PS3 or not. It's entirely dependant on which version you bought (games from the EU store are 50Hz even on an NTSC console).

He specifically mentions games bought from the EU store.

 

[Soodanim]

As a UK-GAFer, I refuse to buy any more EU PS1 games. When I first got my PS3 I bought a few, but since getting a US PSN account I have never looked back. I even considered re-buying FF7 from the US store so that I can play it properly instead of having to continue playing the gimped EU version. We're out of the dark ages, and I refuse to pay money to relive the dark ages of black borders and slowed gameplay.

On a side note, I'm so glad Code: Veronica X HD exists, because the PS2 version is dreadful thanks to the above.

 

[mclem]

Don't Nintendo at least PAL optimise their Virtual Console releases? I thought it was just Mega Drive games on that service that were borked?

They'd have whatever PAL optimisation Nintendo coded in originally, although to be fair on that note Nintendo did a better job of PAL optimisation back then than many third parties.

 

[LiquidSolid]

But unless you see it side by side with something running the game at full speed, you wouldn't notice (unless you were aware in advance, of course). I barely imported in the 16-bit days, and I still had a huge amount of fun with SNES SF2 and many other games that are apparently bad consumer experiences in comparison with the NTSC counterparts.

I've had to deal with plenty of shitty PAL localisations (which is what this is the equivalent of) and it's blatantly obvious to me. It's like playing a game in slow motion. Music doesn't sound right, animations don't look right and gameplay isn't as reactive as it should be.

 

[Number45]

I've had to deal with plenty of shitty PAL localisations (which is what this is the equivalent of) and it's blatantly obvious to me. It's like playing a game in slow motion. Music doesn't sound right, animations don't look right and gameplay isn't as reactive as it should be.

Like I said I'm with you in principle, but you have to understand that they'll look at it and ask themselves whether it's playable.

 

[BradleyLove]

Thanks. US PSN Store it is for me then.

 

[LiquidSolid]

Like I said I'm with you in principle, but you have to understand that they'll look at it and ask themselves whether it's playable.

And I'd argue that that's a shit defence, the kind that a company like Bethesda would come up with to defend their laughably bad technical work. "Playable" is a vague term that you can throw out regardless of how well the game is actually running. The PAL version of DMC1? The SH HD Collection? Yeah they're still technically "playable" but they're still inferior products that companies are trying to get my money for.

If your standards are so low that you're okay with this bullshit and will happily give them money regardless, then good for you. Mine aren't.

 

[Number45]

And I'd argue that that's a shit defence, the kind that a company like Bethesda would come up with to defend their laughably bad technical work. "Playable" is a vague term that you can throw out regardless of how well the game is actually running. The PAL version of DMC1? The SH HD Collection? Yeah they're still technically "playable" but they're still inferior products that companies are trying to get my money for.

If your standards are so low that you're okay with this bullshit and will happily give them money regardless, then good for you. Mine aren't.

I've stated, early in this thread I think, that I'm not happy with it and I won't give them my money. The only PS1 classic I've bought is Symphony of the Night, and I bought it from the US store - the others I own all came from PS+ and they don't get touched. Same goes for the Wii and will for the Wii U VC.

If you're unable to understand that millions of people have played games down the years that were not running at 60hz or were not properly optimised for the PAL standard, and have enjoyed them, then I honestly don't know what to say to you.

 

[Sithlord77]

I was just about to purchase FFVIII on my PAL UK PS3 from PSN store until I saw this. Will it be 50hz? I played the US import way back and refuse to purchase it if it's gonna have horrible back bars and 20% slower speed. Are all games on EU store like this? Even FFXII?

Also how can I get US games from the US store if my card is registered in UK?

 

[Jucksalbe]

I was just about to purchase FFVIII on my PAL UK PS3 from PSN store until I saw this. Will it be 50hz? I played the US import way back and refuse to purchase it if it's gonna have horrible back bars and 20% slower speed. Are all games on EU store like this? Even FFXII?

Yes, all games not explicitly marked as "imports" are the original PAL versions, so 50Hz. And like the thread here says, there are even some imports that still run at 50hz. Final Fantasy XII is not on PSN, though.

Also how can I get US games from the US store if my card is registered in UK?

You have to get US point cards.