PS3 Web Browser Discussion - big upgrade rumoured for long time, but no concrete news

Aug 7, 2010
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androvsky said:
It's not going to last 5 hours. Sony always schedules extra time around their conference, especially afterwards. It'll be two hours, tops.

A link, if it helps.
http://twitter.com/#!/geoffkeighley/status/73132608476819456
New tests in the Sony webkit disclosure site, additions to three areas; mostly additional entry forms. http://downloads.snei-opensource.com/webkit/ It just showed up with a date of May 13th but the last date I saw at that site was April something. Are these front end tests not webkit?



As unbelievable as it sounds, the invites for Sony’s press conference that went out earlier this week indicated that its going to be a 5 hour show. Right off the bat let’s just say that if you even think Sony has 5 hours worth of stuff to talk about, I’d call you a damn fool. For weeks prior we here at the site had been speculating as to just what Sony had up it’s sleeve considering we knew it would be taking place at the former Los Angeles Colleseum. Last year, Activison spared no expense shmoozing show-goers with a 4 hour concert at the Staples Center featuring musical acts like Usher, Janes Addiction, Chris Cornell and Eminem. Knowing that Sony pretty much owns two thirds of the recording industry I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ll be pulling off something similar (it is a Football stadium after all).
http://www.ripten.com/2011/05/26/relax-guys-sonys-e3-press-conference-is-only-1-5-hours/
When the original invites went out for Sony’s E3 press event, many a head turned when they saw that the event would span over five hours.

However, it seems as if most of that time will be spent partying and playing games, not sitting in an auditorium watching Kaz Hirai tout RIIIIDGE RAAAACER on the NGP.

Here’s the breakdown of the event:

3:30-5pm: Pre-show reception with world renowned DJs and LAs best food trucks including Empanadarama,Yappy Dog, Cheeseball Wagon, Komodo and more.
5-6:30pm: Press Conference
6:30-8pm: Enjoy hands on time with almost all of the press conference content on over 120 PS3 and NGP kiosks. Arcade to include special appearances and musical talent.
8-9:30pm: Special performance
So both NGP and PS3 kiosks; I suspect/hope NEW PS3 OS and webkit features with/and NGP-PS3 ecosystem features will be shown. They are kicking off something special with the record 5 hour Press Conference.

Musical Talent appearing at the Hands on time is probably tied to Qriocity and might mean this is in part a Qriocity Launch event.



PlayStation is bringing E3 to you like never before. You can view a live stream of the Press Conference on PlayStation blog. You will have a choice of 4 video feeds that you control with the ability to deep dive on information topics. In addition, be sure to stay connected with the latest PlayStation Blog Live Reports from the show floor on the hour every hour. You will also be able to view live feeds from streaming cameras located throughout our booth. This is going to be a crazy event and June 6th can’t come soon enough.
ability to deep dive on information topics would support webkit, OS and ecosystem topics will be covered. Deep dive on Information might be another way of saying Infinite Picture database.

Official Sony E3 2011 site: http://www.sceainvites.com/e3_2011/

Sony Has Begun PS4 development
 
Aug 7, 2010
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As you all should know by now, the PS3 GTK webkit port uses Gstreamer for the audio and video stream.

We were told over a year ago that we would eventually be able to view 3-D inside the browser for things like Youtube. Turns out Gstreamer does not support 3-D yet. http://planet.collabora.com/
I am also happy to say that by the end of the year we should have GStreamer 1.0 out the door, Wim Taymans is putting the foundations together as we speak. It should provide a lot of great improvements to GStreamer, like good solutions for handling 3D video for instance, but also provide a lot of speed improvements which will be especially useful for embedded setups
What embedded setups are going to display 3-D; PS3?

From the font/language settings in the PS3 we can determine that the blu-ray, DVD and IPTV players are separate players, the former two probably not part of gstreamer. We can't confirm but I believe that DLNA was rewritten and is supported by gstreamer (The PS3 having a Gstreamer based DLNA is the lowest probability as DLNA was implemented before the 2008 date indicated by Collabora blogs that work was being done for Sony on the PS3.) as well as IPTV in its various forms like "Home" iptv, Hulu or Mubi etc. The latter with a Marlin ultraviolet DRM adaptive streaming gstreamer player.

Also coming by the end of this year (speculation for the NGP and PS3) is a new DLNA server/player/standard with the gstreamer implementation called Rygel after the Farscape SF series character. Essentially, with for instance a handheld like the NGP, you can have control of the PS3 DLNA player and remotely play files from the NGP or any DLNA server on the network and if I understood correctly, shared files on the network too.


Sony had as a release date for the NGP October and coincidentally, Linux embedded projects usually complete before October in time for the EU Linux conference Sept-Oct. Partners (clients who pay) in these projects get the code first and have help implementing new code. I assume Sony is in this category.

Firmware 3.70 outed by Sept for New Headphones And here 7.1 digital surround sound on the PS3™ requires system software version 3.70 or later. Surround Sound does not work with Blu-ray Disc movies confirms a separate player for BLu-ray disks and a gstreamer/audio upgrade with 3.70.

Redirecting audio to the usb port for the announced for September new Sony headphones is possible now and mentioned in multiple gstreamer players and guessing from the release date for the headphones, a PS3 firmware update supporting some new feature(s) is scheduled for September like firmware 3.5 last year.

A possible is Pulseaudio that has a design advantage for handhelds in that it saves a few tenths of a watt in audio processing by pulse decoding/creating an audio stream then turning off the audio processor for a few tenths of a second while playing the decoded stream then turns on the pulse audio again for a few tenths of a second in cycles. The savings comes in the sleep time where the processor is turned off. Pulse audio can be fed by a gstreamer core. I suspect the NGP will use Pulse audio.

The PS3 while not needing a power savings can benefit in packing more audio processing in a shorter time for audio with pulse audio and then having a SPU free for other tasks during the audio processing sleep time. (Bumping audio up from 5.1 to 7.1 as well as Cross game chat and music in the background enabled by pulse audio?)

http://arunraghavan.net/2011/05/more-pulseaudio-power-goodness/

Summarizing the basic idea, we want music players to decode a large chunk of data and give it to PA so that we can then fill up ALSA’s hardware buffer, sleep till it’s almost completely consumed, fill it again, sleep, repeat. More details in this post from Lennart.

The native GNOME audio/video players don’t talk to PulseAudio directly — they use GStreamer, which has a pulsesink element that actually talks to PulseAudio. We could configure things so that we send a large amount (say 2 seconds’ worth) to PulseAudio, sleep, and then wake up periodically to push out more.
http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2010/10/07/echo-cancellation-on-linux/
Echo cancellation on Linux
So as I blogged about before, Collabora Multimedia has been doing a project with NLnet to improve echo cancellation support under Linux and Pulse Audio. There were and still are a lot of challenges to get it right, but we wanted to try to lay the groundwork for a system wide solution, which is why we decided to try to implement it within Pulse Audio.For those wondering what echo cancellation actually means, it is a way to resolve the issue that if you record sound from your laptop microphone and at the same time output sound from your speakers, you easily end up with the sound looping, creating an irritating echo effect, which makes doing voice calls on a machine painful and sometimes impossible. Echo cancellation systems basically try to analyse the data coming out of the speakers so that it can filter it out and ignore it when it comes back through the microphone.
This is an issue the current PS3 chat has. Another issue is poor video due to connection speeds; this is also being addressed with adaptive bitrate in gstreamer.

The above Sony headphones release date of September and requiring 3.70 confirms what we should already surmise; there is a schedule of planned upgrades for the PS3. My opinion: From functionality and looking at Collabora blogs as well as the Linux Gnome desktop and the latest Fedora release we might determine from functionality what Sony is using (open Source Software) for these planned upgrades in the PS3 and NGP.

This is new to Fedora Linux and might be a possible for the PS3 kernel and would support a dynamic kernel and more. It's available with a variety of licences and for embedded systems.
systemd: "systemd is a system and session manager for Linux, compatible with SysV and LSB init scripts. systemd provides aggressive parallelization capabilities, uses socket and D-Bus activation for starting services, offers on-demand starting of daemons, keeps track of processes using Linux cgroups, supports snapshotting and restoring of the system state, maintains mount and automount points and implements an elaborate transactional dependency-based service control logic. It can work as a drop-in replacement for sysvinit."
What does this tell us about when? I think webkit is done and in the PS3 (frontend still being constructed/tested), systemd done and being used by the kernel but gstreamer 1.0 and pulseaudio are still to come (Sept). As always this is opinion and based on functionality. Multiple upgrades planned with a target date before the October release of the NGP for ecosystem functionality.

IF pulseaudio and/or telepathy is necessary for cross game chat or other new features then we might only have an announcement of these new features at E3 (or Firmware 3.7 at E3 and several new features like Cross game chat). There is much more than a new web browser coming! There are dependencies and Sony needs to follow a planned implementation.

PlayStation is bringing E3 to you like never before. You can view a live stream of the Press Conference on PlayStation blog. You will have a choice of 4 video feeds that you control with the ability to deep dive on information topics. In addition, be sure to stay connected with the latest PlayStation Blog Live Reports from the show floor on the hour every hour.
http://gamerant.com/sony-e3-2011-conference-preview-benk-87681/
we’re no doubt expecting to hear about a new PS3 firmware – hopefully with some long-awaited additions, such as cross-game chat as well as other community improvements (least of which will be some form of interconnectivity with the NGP’s LiveArea functionality).
NGP Live area =
Trophy(s)
Friends playing game
PSN Store access for DLC
Chat
Access to Game
Live area will probably be duplicated in the PS3.

Collabora Gnome collaborative desktop like OLPC Sugar talk

Libraries listed in PS3 disclosure

$(CAIRO_LIBS) \ Cairo SVG library
+ $(COVERAGE_LDFLAGS) \
+ $(ENCHANT_LIBS) \...............Front end API for a spell checker and more
+ $(FREETYPE_LIBS) \...............Default Font Library & Pango is supposed to be included in latest version
+ $(GAIL_LIBS) \......................GNOME Accessibility Implementation Library
+ $(GEOCLUE_LIBS) \...............No need for this on the PS3, NGP will use!
+ $(GLIB_LIBS) \......................low level C cross platform lib (needed for just about everything webkit & cairo & Gstreamer)
+ $(GSTREAMER_LIBS) \...........Gstreamer AV library *
+ $(GTK_LIBS) \.......................GTK toolkit library Implements many of the Xwindows GDK wrapper functions without needing Xwindows or GDK
+ $(HILDON_LIBS) \..................Icons and control panels (touchscreen
+ $(JPEG_LIBS) \......................Jpeg compression picture library (Video too?)
+ $(LIBSOUP_LIBS) \................HTTP library
+ $(LIBXML_LIBS) \
+ $(LIBXSLT_LIBS) \
+ $(PANGO_LIBS) \...................International Fonts Cairo-pango = SVG international fonts eventually to be part of Freetype above.
+ $(PNG_LIBS) \.......................PNG picture library
+ $(SQLITE3_LIBS) \.................Data Base Library

+ $(UNICODE_LIBS) \
+ $(XT_LIBS) \.........................Xwindows libraries?
+ $(WINMM_LIBS) \..................Windows Multi-Media library ?
+ $(SHLWAPI_LIBS) \ wrapper functions convert the Unicode input string parameters to ANSI and call ANSI versions of functions
+ $(OLE32_LIBS).......................http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_..._and_Embedding
 
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It looks like Sony is using many of the Linux Gnome 3.2 and OLPC ideas and open source programs for the NGP and PS3. How much makes it into the PS3 is up to Sony and will be influenced by their long range plans for the PS3.

Gnome announces embedded and Mobile Initiative April 2007

Developers of the open-source GNOME desktop environment announced last week the establishment of the GNOME Mobile and Embedded Initiative (GMAE), which aims to promote development and adoption of GNOME software components in mobile and embedded computing contexts. Developers hope that the new initiative will facilitate collaboration between the GNOME development community and companies that are building embedded computing products that incorporate various components of GNOME's underlying infrastructure.

The GNOME platform is a cohesive assortment of high-level software building blocks designed to expedite Linux application development. The complete spectrum of GNOME technologies can be used together to build feature-rich applications with minimal effort. Companies are increasingly adopting GNOME for mobile development, and several open-source projects have emerged to create cohesive GNOME-based mobile platforms. Various GNOME technologies are used extensively in the Linux-based software systems that power Nokia's 770 and N800 web tablet products, the One Laptop Per Child project's XO laptop, FIC's Neo1973 mobile phone, and products that use the Access Linux Platform.

Representatives from Intel, Nokia, Access, FIC, Canonical, Red Hat, OpenedHand, and many other companies have all expressed support for the initiative.

Some technical details for those who care about such things

The GNOME Embedded Platform is a diverse stack of open source, mobile application development technologies that includes the GTK toolkit for interface construction, the GConf application configuration service which leverages XML for data persistence, the extensible GnomeVFS file access abstraction layer which provides support for network transparent file manipulation, the highly flexible GStreamer multimedia framework which supports dynamic media editing as well as playback, the powerful D-Bus interprocess communication system, the BlueZ Bluetooth stack, the nascent Telepathy instant messaging and presence management framework, and the Avahi service for Zeroconf service discovery.
So from 2007 to the present an effort to improve functionality, reduce resources used and insure cross platform compatibility was made by all listed above. Testing on prototype Arm processors for coming handhelds was part of the efforts.

Notice the Python language in the upper right of the below chart
PyGTK lets you to easily create programs with a graphical user interface using the Python programming language. The underlying GTK+ library provides all kind of visual elements and utilities for it and, if needed, you can develop full featured applications for the GNOME Desktop.

PyGTK applications are truly multiplatform and they're able to run, unmodified, on Linux, Windows, MacOS X and other platforms.
******Any platform with a GTKwebkit can support Gnome Mobile applications.*******



Features in Gnome Mobile 2007
* GTK+ toolkit
* the Gstreamer multimedia framework
* Telepathy
Avahi network service discovery,
Evolution Data Server for contacts and calendaring
BlueZ Bluetooth support

Future features
Tinymail
* GeoClue geolocation service
Java Mobile & Embedded (Java ME)
* PulseAudio audio management
HAL hardware information system

* = Confirmed.
Pulseaudio is a must if echo cancellation depends on it.
Telepathy is a must and from functionality is seen in the NGP Near = OLPC Neighborhood, Telepathy is included in GlibC
Matchbox/Xwindows not needed with GTKtoolkit as it contains minimum windows features in the same way Android does (more memory savings) .
A couple of month later 2007, Tolker of Collabora (Gstreamer, D-Bus, Telepathy), announced GTKwebkit using gstreamer for HTML5 video/audio with Cairo bindings for WebGL. Several months later a Collabora blog mentions receiving a PS3 developer kit from Sony; all this late 2007.

Collabora in a 2008 blog was advising/conferring with Firefox on an embedded version of Firefox for ARM processors. The blog goes on to mention either webkit or Firefox as candidates for their embedded business partners.


And within a month of each other in March of 2011 the following:
Stable Cairo SVG announced
Final webGL standards Published
Stable Webkit announced
Sony publishes their second Webkit disclosure
Sony publishes their WEBGL game patents
Sony published a Job opening for Webkit software engineer for porting/developing open source software for Sony platforms mentioning the PS3.

In order of probability this is what I'd guess is coming.

1) New webkit browser (SVG, WebGL, HTML5) (GTK+Webkit) http://live.gnome.org/WebKitGtk

2) Telepathy in background always running http://gnomejournal.org/article/84/telepathy-empathy-and-mission-control-5-in-gnome-228

3) Collaborative educational games coming - look at OLPC http://one.laptop.org/about/software NGP "Near" = OLPC Neighborhood (Telepathy/Geoclue)

4) The entire PS3 OS is getting a rewrite to use Cairo SVG with pango international fonts.

5) New chat programs coming (Empathy) http://live.gnome.org/Empathy

6) Upgraded DLNA (Rygel) http://live.gnome.org/Rygel

7) New PS3 Play (remote desktop) with more features.

It looks like Sony is using many of the Linux Gnome 3.2 and OLPC ideas and open source programs for the NGP and PS3. How much makes it into the PS3 is up to Sony and will be influenced by their long range plans for the PS3.

Sony will soon target international markets like India and Arabic countries once they implement Cairo-Pango international fonts. These countries are a large developing market that will buy products that offer value.

The PS3 will be the central hub in homes to store, edit and display media from Sony products (Cameras) as well as display Internet served and blu-ray/DVD commercial media. It will be the Homes Internet information access point and Text/Audio/Video chat client. It will be a upscale OLPC (One Laptop Per Child) educational tool for children. It will offer Home - Office tools via the Internet, Cloud served or Remote Desktop.

So one product that uses the Home's HD TV to offer the best value in a "Does it all" package. Over the next three years starting in 2012 with a die size reduction for the Cell and RSX a fan less PS3 is possible and a reduction in price will open up a larger third world market.

So expect the XMB design to reflect a UI that supports the above in a KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) mannor. Kiss in this case will reduce the feature set in coming applications.


One of the design criteria for the Gnome 3 desktop is to fit in embedded systems like the PS3 and cell phones with limited memory. So the applications I list which were designed to work with Gnome 3 share the same widget toolkits reducing memory footprint. All are SVG based so they use less memory. Cairo SVG is OpenGL accelerated using SPU vector processors which should make all drawing VERY VERY fast.

The memory mapping for games has already been set in stone. They can't make significan't changes to that and remain compatible. Yes they are going to do paging. For instance "Live" which is the portal to a game contains: Trophys, Friends list for those playing that game, Access to the PSN store for DLC, Chat and a button to access the game. Notification that a friend wants to chat can be done in game with telepathy and a monitor program using very little memory and you must pause the game to return to "Live" where you can chat. The pause game return to live or resume game is accomplished with a memory swap.

The PS3 has had two snapshot kernels to this point with an abreviated one for the game side. To use webkit & GTK/Gnome applicaitons in the game side is going to need a different "dynamic" kernel model like Systemd (Linux) or launchd (Apple). Full Linux or FreeBSD functionality is not needed, Sony can have a custom method similar to systemd.

"systemd is a system and session manager for Linux, compatible with SysV and LSB init scripts. systemd provides aggressive parallelization capabilities, uses socket and D-Bus activation for starting services, offers on-demand starting of daemons, keeps track of processes using Linux cgroups, supports snapshotting and restoring of the system state, maintains mount and automount points and implements an elaborate transactional dependency-based service control logic. It can work as a drop-in replacement for sysvinit."
"snapshotting and restoring of the system state" Would support fast memory paging (Virtual Memory) of whole applications as well as the register state . That would dramatically speed up Hard disk swaps of entire programs.

Pulseaudio which is also used in Gnome 3 can support an audio cross game chat using very little memory. It can accept multiple IP audio streams and reproduce them using little memory and resources. Setting up the chat might require a UI and programs that would need to have more resources (page memory again) then paged out with Pulseaudio being fed the IP audio.

Pulseaudio and gstreamer were being used by the PS3 Other OS Linux several years ago and have been evolving. I'd be interested in other opinions on this from Linux guys who are up on the current Gnome/Ubuntu Linux.

From what I can see, for instance; Empathy chat is only 7 megs on top of Glib, webkit and GTK toolkit. The front end for a browser is only 70K on top of webkit which is about 27 megs on top of Glib and GTK toolkit. Application sizes are small if they use native language tools coming with the webkit/ecosystem upgrades for the PS3.
 
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Ashes1396 said:
If even half that stuff comes to fruition post e3, then you'd get my respect Jeff...
I'm shooting for 80%. It may be hard to tell if I'm right, for example, the Video editor in the PS3:

Collabora has a video editor called PiTiVi that uses gstreamer as a base. IF you look at snapshots of PiTiVi and compare to the PS3 editor they don't resemble each other but I believe that the core of PiTiVi was used for the PS3 Video Editor. Edit: There is another possible reason for stripping the editor of functionality, LGPL. Collabora may not have had the rights to release to Sony more than a core of PiTiVi. Now that Sony is publishing LGPL as required for Open Source software used in the PS3 this may no longer be an issue.



So how would you confirm I'm correct? Empathy may suffer the same stripping of functionality for KISS or Memory limitations.

Then again, the PS3 video editor was created before the coming changes to the PS3 and I assume there are fewer memory limitations now so we may get full functionality back in coming updates.

Sony is the big variable and we can't know what they will decide to support. I believe the assumption now is if you want a professional grade editor use a PC. In the near future with a third world target the PS3 may be the only computer in the home and more functionality may be added.

Edit: The PiViTi video editor requires Xwindows and a Python interpreter. For these reasons alone it can not be ported to the PS3 as is and would require a serious rewrite to port to the PS3. The core of PiTiVi is gstreamer and I'm sure the PS3 uses this.
 

Bert

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If it saves me having to hook my MacBook up to my TV to watch TV/Movie streams then awesome. Is the lack of memory issue a hardware problem or something they can fix? i.e. does the system limit the amount of memory for buffering Flash videos?
 
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Ashes1396 said:
I've wondered why the video editor is in there... The best I could think of was that they were just throwing pet projects at the ps3, and hoping they stick.
I think the video editor is there because Sony make video cameras. The concept is that people would film something on a Sony camera, edit the best bit, then share with friends on Youtube or Facebook, all via the PS3 and without use of a PC. The idea is good but as usual with Sony they didn't explain the vision and the implementation is a bit half-assed.

But they clearly want to have the box under the TV that "only does everything" and ties all the various Sony products together. The threat of them eventually nailing this is said to be what brought MS into the console business.
 
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Withnail said:
I think the video editor is there because Sony make video cameras. The concept is that people would film something on a Sony camera, edit the best bit, then share with friends on Youtube or Facebook, all via the PS3 and without use of a PC. The idea is good but as usual with Sony they didn't explain the vision and the implementation is a bit half-assed.

But they clearly want to have the box under the TV that "only does everything" and ties all the various Sony products together. The threat of them eventually nailing this is said to be what brought MS into the console business.
Now that you mention it... That does feel familiar...
 
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Withnail said:
I think the video editor is there because Sony make video cameras. The concept is that people would film something on a Sony camera, edit the best bit, then share with friends on Youtube or Facebook, all via the PS3 and without use of a PC. The idea is good but as usual with Sony they didn't explain the vision and the implementation is a bit half-assed.

But they clearly want to have the box under the TV that "only does everything" and ties all the various Sony products together. The threat of them eventually nailing this is said to be what brought MS into the console business.
Got it 100%


Now think of a PS3 with Pango international fonts which can be presented right to left (backwards to our system) with pango layout for countries I mentioned in a previous message. They may not have a PC but will be able to afford an inexpensive "does all" home media center. It's a very large market and if the PS3 follows the PS2 as far as price point...eventually affordable by many.

And as I said above RE: the video editor, implementation may improve after this coming webkit/ecosystem upgrade.

2008 Collabora put two more full time programmers onto the PiViTi video editor project; this sponsored by "Business partners". There are several commercial video editors on the market that currently are professional grade. But there is no FOSS (Free Open Source Software) product for us (consumers) to use to edit our home video with the new $100+ HD and 3-D video cameras (Sony again?). Collabora is working on Gstreamer 3-D video plugins.

All we need to hear is that Collabora is going to support GTK toolkit rather than Xwindows and PiViTi would be cross platform portable to besides Gnome desktop Linux, Windows, PS3 and any platform that has sufficient performance and can run gstreamer and python. IE any platform that has a GTKwebkit installed already has everything but Python which is a cross platform interpreted language.

Edit: http://www.pygtk.org/ The reason to use Python?
PyGTK lets you to easily create programs with a graphical user interface using the Python programming language. The underlying GTK+ library provides all kind of visual elements and utilities for it and, if needed, you can develop full featured applications for the GNOME Desktop.

PyGTK applications are truly multiplatform and they're able to run, unmodified, on Linux, Windows, MacOS X and other platforms.
Edit: https://live.gnome.org/Hackfests/PitiviGES2011

Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin, August 8th-12th, 2011 (during the Desktop Summit)

Location:

August 8th and 9th: to be determined
August 10-12: room 1.308/2
Primary contact: Jeff Fortin - nekohayo at gmail.com
Secondary contact: Edward Hervey - bilboed at bilboed.com

Agenda, goals

Port the user interface to GTK3 and gobject introspection. Are you a gui guru or familiar with porting python apps to pygi/GTK3? Come join us!
Test the integration of GES, our new core engine
Review the work of our Summer of Code students
Hunt down our most hardcore bugs
Discuss and design complex UI changes/plans
Discuss our immediate plans for the future and for synchronizing with GNOME's release cycles
Measuring your success

<a few expectations about the hackfest that you expect that -if met- will make it a successful gathering>

Interface ported to GTK3, drop the dependency on pygtk
GES integrated and tested in pitivi, resulting in much simpler code
All blocker bugs reviewed/investigated
Crack down on the existing bug reports pertaining to rendering hangs
Establish a clear plan for the most complex performance and infrastructure bugs
Bring pitivi in a rock-solid, bulletproof state
In the works for PIVITI porting to GTK which means we could get a PS3 port of PIVITI.
 
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thuway said:
Does this mean Cross Game Chat is a possibility :-/?
Yes a possibility. Pulse audio can accept multiple audio streams from multiple IP sources (several internet connected PS3s) and play them as if from a local source. Tie that to Telepathy running in the background to manage the flow and I believe it's easily possible. EDIT: confirmed not coming from Sony via a Eurogamer post because of lack of memory.
It appears they tried to implement Xgame chat and only recently determined it's not possible See: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=30236987&postcount=784

PulseAudio is the next generation system for Linux-based operating systems. It allows advanced operations on sound data as it is passed between applications and system hardware, such as on-the-fly redirection of audio output from speakers to a bluetooth headset, smart audio volume management, sample format or channel count conversion and combination of several sounds into one, are all easily achieved using PulseAudio.

With today's focus on convergence devices, where mobile phones, gaming consoles, media servers, media center solutions and similar all seem to merge together, having an advanced high quality audio system is critical in order to launching a successful product.

PulseAudio is a sound system for POSIX OSes, meaning that it is a proxy for your sound applications. It allows you to do advanced operations on your sound data as it passes between your application and your hardware. Things like transferring the audio to a different machine, changing the sample format or channel count and mixing several sounds into one are easily achieved using a sound server.

PulseAudio is designed for Linux systems. It has also been ported to and tested on Solaris, FreeBSD, NetBSD, MacOS X, Windows 2000 and Windows XP.
See also http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29849897&postcount=716
 
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M.D said:
Can this have anything to do with all the things you are talking about?

Resume: NGP includes “Flash Social Networking system”
Flash/PHP Programmer
Arktos Entertainment
Nov 09 - Present
Flash/PHP Programmer for Empire, an isometric Flash Facebook game based on Cityville by Zynga.
Flash UI Programmer for War Inc. Battle Zone, a free to play online shooter based on Battlefield 2
PHP Programmer for the Opus Deli, a website builder for musicians.
PHP Programmer for thewarinc.com and gameid.arktosentertainment.com, websites for the game War Inc. Battle Zone.
Flash Programmer for Game Streamer. Built UI menus for software shown at CES and E3 Conventions.
Flash/PHP Programmer for Sony PSP2 prototype. Built Flash Social Networking system.
If the VG247 article is correct then the guy started Flash/PHP PSP2 Social Networking on Nov 2009 for Arktos Entertainment and is now looking for a new job. He was not working for Sony.

It's possible that Sony is/was going to use/support Flash for games. The Sony 2009 WebGL patent had Flash games in several areas of the sample Cloud served personal web pages.

Point is if you have webGL you have similar to Flash functionality. But with 4000 Flash games available perhaps you support Flash now and move to webGL as those are available.

I'd have to say that NO, Flash is not being used in the NGP or PS3 for Social networking. It's possible that Sony will have Flash games in addition to webGL games and a web based Social networking support structure for Flash games. I doubt this though. Edit: with the Sony Android "S" having Adobe Air support strongly suggests that PS Suite is an Air application and Air will be in the Vita (NGP). Or at least parts of PS Suite are supported by Air.
 
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jeff are you sure you're not working on all of this and leaking it under an alias? Haha.

Interesting, but scary amount of detective work.
There is still too much guesswork. I could be overly optimistic about Sony plans. On a positive note I could be on target and this could be laying the groundwork for the PS4 and all Sony networked platforms.

Any platform with a GTKwebkit can support Gnome Mobile applications. GTKwebkit uses Cairo SVG, Gstreamer and Webkit which are designed to be cross platform. Python is designed to support cross platform. Sony named their GTKwebkit theme POSIX. Anything they develop using these tools will be easy to port between PS3 and NGP as well as to future platforms like the PS4.

E3 E3 E3 E3 E3 E3 E3 ............
 
Aug 7, 2010
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Enchant is included in the PS3 webkit disclosure Libraries:

$(CAIRO_LIBS) \ Cairo SVG library
+ $(COVERAGE_LDFLAGS) \
+ $(ENCHANT_LIBS) \...............Front end API for a spell checker and more
+ $(FREETYPE_LIBS) \...............Default Font Library & Pango is supposed to be included in latest version
+ $(GAIL_LIBS) \......................GNOME Accessibility Implementation Library
+ $(GEOCLUE_LIBS) \...............No need for this on the PS3, NGP will use!
+ $(GLIB_LIBS) \......................low level C cross platform lib (needed for just about everything webkit & cairo & Gstreamer)
+ $(GSTREAMER_LIBS) \...........Gstreamer AV library *
+ $(GTK_LIBS) \.......................GTK toolkit library Implements many of the Xwindows GDK wrapper functions without needing Xwindows or GDK
+ $(HILDON_LIBS) \..................Icons and control panels (touchscreen
+ $(JPEG_LIBS) \......................Jpeg compression picture library (Video too?)
+ $(LIBSOUP_LIBS) \................HTTP library
+ $(LIBXML_LIBS) \
+ $(LIBXSLT_LIBS) \
+ $(PANGO_LIBS) \...................International Fonts Cairo-pango = SVG international fonts eventually to be part of Freetype above.
+ $(PNG_LIBS) \.......................PNG picture library
+ $(SQLITE3_LIBS) \.................Data Base Library

+ $(UNICODE_LIBS) \
+ $(XT_LIBS) \.........................Xwindows libraries?
+ $(WINMM_LIBS) \..................Windows Multi-Media library ?
+ $(SHLWAPI_LIBS) \ wrapper functions convert the Unicode input string parameters to ANSI and call ANSI versions of functions
+ $(OLE32_LIBS).......................http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_Linking_and_Embedding

Enchant is needed as a front end for spell checkers because there will be multiple backend spell checkers for different languages.

GTK+ Features
GTK+ is built on top of GLib. GLib provides the fundamental algorithmic language constructs commonly duplicated in applications. This library has features such as: (this list is not a comprehensive list)

Object and type system
Main loop
Dynamic loading of modules (i.e. plug-ins)
Thread support
Timer support
Memory allocator
Threaded Queues (synchronous and asynchronous)
Lists (singly linked, doubly linked, double ended)
Hash tables
Arrays
Trees (N-ary and binary balanced)
String utilities and charset handling
Lexical scanner and XML parser
Base64 (encoding & decoding)
Mobile

The GMAE (GNOME Mobile & Embedded) initiative has advanced the use, development and commercialization of GNOME components as a mobile and embedded user experience platform. It has brought together industry leaders, expert consultants, key developers and the community and industry organizations they represent. As a direct result of this, GTK+ has features pertaining to mobile and embedded platform requirements.

GTK+ has been involved in a number of embedded initiatives over the past few years including the development of:

Nokia 770 / N800 / N810 / N900
One Laptop Per Child Project
OpenMoko
 

Cels

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I find it hard to get hyped up about technical stuff which is gobbledygook to me (cause lol i'm a lawyer and not an engineer) but if it means cool stuff is coming to PS3 in a firmware update that will be announced at E3, then I'm for it.
 
Aug 7, 2010
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Anyone notice the changes in the latest Netflix update?

It's now down to 16 meg from 21 meg and scrolling speed has increased so much that the other parts of Netflix still using QTWebkit can't keep up with the parts supplied by, my guess, PS3 hardware accelerated webkit components.
 
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Luigiv said:
Is this update ever going to actually happen or is jeff_rigby just going to continue bumping this thread until the PS4 turns up?
:LOL , i really hope they have an awesome browser coming, and they better talk about it at E3 or jeffrigby will surely kill something :(
 

M.D

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Elixist said:
:LOL , i really hope they have an awesome browser coming, and they better talk about it at E3 or jeffrigby will surely kill something :(
Would you really use the browser that much even if it worked perfectly? I think a lot of people want it just cause

I'm way more excited about the prospect of a totally new OS with new features and a new look
 
Sep 22, 2006
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So... I was using the current browser and my PS3 froze and wouldn't respond again after waiting. It has done it in the past frequently. Usually after 30 mins of browsing neogaf or something. So, I try to never use it.

This surely isn't common is it?

The only issue I have outside the browser is the fact that my hard drive is missing 10 GB's.

Am I looking at a hard drive problem only or other hardware problems?
 
Apr 6, 2010
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M.D said:
Would you really use the browser that much even if it worked perfectly? I think a lot of people want it just cause

I'm way more excited about the prospect of a totally new OS with new features and a new look
Its just sad that an itouch has a better browser I just feel bad for my ps3 i guess. Another good browser is never a bad thing imo. I'd probly use it some yes.
 
Aug 8, 2006
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Withnail said:
But they clearly want to have the box under the TV that "only does everything" and ties all the various Sony products together. The threat of them eventually nailing this is said to be what brought MS into the console business.
And while they concentrated on doing that, they lost sight of the real threat, which is mobile devices that actually are putting a dent on MS's OS dominance and now they have to play catch up.

DeathNote said:
So... I was using the current browser and my PS3 froze and wouldn't respond again after waiting. It has done it in the past frequently. Usually after 30 mins of browsing neogaf or something. So, I try to never use it.

This surely isn't common is it?

The only issue I have outside the browser is the fact that my hard drive is missing 10 GB's.

Am I looking at a hard drive problem only or other hardware problems?
Don't worry, it is common. The PS3 browser crashes all the time. Neogaf is one of the least offensive site to the PS3 browser. Go to any website that runs flash and the browser will crash much faster.

The missing GB's is due to the different GB definition between HD manufacturers and what is common used and also space reserved for system files.
 
Sep 22, 2006
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linsivvi said:
And while they concentrated on doing that, they lost sight of the real threat, which is mobile devices that actually are putting a dent on MS's OS dominance and now they have to play catch up.



Don't worry, it is common. The PS3 browser crashes all the time. Neogaf is one of the least offensive site to the PS3 browser. Go to any website that runs flash and the browser will crash much faster.

The missing GB's is due to the different GB definition between HD manufacturers and what is common used and also space reserved for system files.
I have 60Gb free out of 74Gb on the marketed 80GB drive with only 2GB of games installed on it. I understand why the max is 74Gb due to GB definition an all. But 60/74 is a large gap. I've already discussed this with some people in the ps3 died thread so I don't mean to go off topic here.

I'm more focused on the browser cause I have more than enough space for the time being. As far as the browser goes, it just doesn't seem right. Crashing is one thing but freezing the whole console where I have to cut power with my hand every time I use it for 20 minutes?
 
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1. Port the browser to Webkit. The more Webkit browsers out there, the better. Make sure it's insanely hardware accelerated, so more games done in JavaScript can become successful.

2. Allow us to keep it open all the time. Maybe even splitscreen between games and the browser. This would be great for FAQs. It blows my mind that nobody has ever done this, and that Nintendo (of all companies!) will be first in with the 3DS next week.
 

jvm

Gamasutra.
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DeathNote said:
I have 60Gb free out of 74Gb on the marketed 80GB drive with only 2GB of games installed on it. I understand why the max is 74Gb due to GB definition an all. But 60/74 is a large gap. I've already discussed this with some people in the ps3 died thread so I don't mean to go off topic here.
I haven't been looking at that other thread, but you should consider more than just game size at install time. For example, there can be gigs of data in the Game Data folder if you have a game like Hot Shots Golf PS3.
 
Aug 7, 2010
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http://digitaltelex.com/default/

GOOGLE GETTING RID OF SUPPORT FOR OLDER BROWSERS STARTING AUGUST

This August 2011, Google is cutting the cord on older, outdated versions of browsers. These include Internet Explorer 7, Safari 3.x, and Firefox 3.5.x. Google’s services and sites (Docs, Reader, Voice, GMail, etc.) will no longer be supported on these browsers.

Google didn’t say they’re going to make their sites not work with these browsers. They mean that if they want to add a new feature or optimization to one of their sites and it happens to not work with one of these browsers, they’re not going to go out of their way to make it compatible. No sir, you’re on your own.

What can I say about this? Honestly, I’m glad. There are tons of new web technologies (CSS3 and HTML5 mainly) that simply won’t work on older browsers without some messy trickery, if at all. Now that Google finally is making the decision to stop being held back by people who can’t find the “Update” button, maybe we can see some richer functionality in their sites.
This then would give us a date by which Sony should have already replaced the Netfront browser.

It's all coming together, support for new standards in the works for 2 years is finally being required.
 
Aug 27, 2009
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Sony is up in about 10 hours for E3, lets hope there are noticable FW updates mentioned.
They need to start with optimizing XMB speed and separating it from running games, so that it doesnt chug. In this way, cross game background music (custom soundtrack) is possible, since its not dependant on game code anymore.
 

jayb

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Jun 18, 2009
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jeff_rigby said:
http://digitaltelex.com/default/

GOOGLE GETTING RID OF SUPPORT FOR OLDER BROWSERS STARTING AUGUST

This then would give us a date by which Sony should have already replaced the Netfront browser.

It'a all coming together, support for new standards in the works for 2 years is finally being required.
Yeah, but Google sites will still work with older browsers. You just wouldn't be able to use the newer features.