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[StreetsofBeige]

Anyone have a general idea when it comes to making games what comes first?

1. Dev wants to make a shooter. They'll figure out story, art style, setting later

2. Dev has a general storyline and setting to go. Will figure out soon after whether to take that info and make an RPG or action game

 

[Memorabilia]

I guess I really like/love "movie games", then? I'm much more invested into the Xbox ecosystem, but man I love me some Sony exclusives. I hope Xbox brings a healthy number of high quality single player narrative driven games next gen (but I won't hold my breathe and am thankful we can count on Sony in this regard...).

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Still no need for a ps4

Great post.

 

[Spukc]

Great post.

Thanks just stating the obvious some people need this

 

[ZywyPL]

What if... Sony's games are indeed overloaded with scripts? Nevermind the cut-scenes, most games have them, always had, they are in fact needed to tell a story, but let's talk about the so-called gameplay, because that's where the whole issue lies I believe - too many scripts make the game feel like "sure, it's not a pre-rendered CGI cut-scene, but I'm not playing the game either" - there are too many, too often, too long moments, where the camera gets locked to a certain position, moves the certain way/speed, you character moves in a certain way/speed, the other characters/object behave exactly the same every single time, half of the buttons on the controller don't do anything for that moment, and so on, and as a result there are too many moments where you just sit and watch as the game basically plays itself. It worked so well in UC2, TLoU pushed the bar even higher, but judging on how much people are complaining about it nowadays, it's safe to say Sony is starting to cross the line.

The other issue is the lack of alternatives, because back in PS3 days we sure got UC2/3, TLoU, Quantic Dream games, but there were also shooters like Killzone, Resistance, MAG, Warchawk, racers like Gran Turismo, Motorstorm, Wipeout, all different kind genres you can think of, with multiple games to choose from, and it was all from Sony themselves, and now? Sony releases quite literally just a single title per year for the PS4, and "somehow" it's always a 3rd person "cinematic experience", so yeah, people have the right to be upset.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Thanks just stating the obvious some people need this

Why is it obvious, exactly.

 

[Woodchipper]

Thanks just stating the obvious some people need this

You go on as if it’s politics. What’s your problem?

 

[DavidGzz]

Xbox fanboys: Sony games are movies
Sony fanboys: Xbox has nothing but dude bro games.

Someone who can afford both systems like me: I can't wait for TLOU2, Halo Infinite, etc.

Spend less time arguing your fanboy opinions and hit the gym instead. Work off some steam.

 

[DForce]

Anyone have a general idea when it comes to making games what comes first?

1. Dev wants to make a shooter. They'll figure out story, art style, setting later

2. Dev has a general storyline and setting to go. Will figure out soon after whether to take that info and make an RPG or action game

They generally don't figure out the story, art style and setting later. Concepts are submitted, and the story and idea happen before or even simultaneously while developing the gameplay concept.

Around 2010, the two settled on an idea that was much closer to the game that was ultimately released this past June. But, like the previous versions of the story, the initial pitch for The Last of Us failed. "It just wasn't honest," says Druckmann. One of the main issues was pacing and character development, as Joel turned into a father figure very quickly, a process that happens quite gradually in the final product. The ending was also a problem. Initially, the goal was to build up to a scene in which Joel found himself incapacitated — tied up and tortured, with a knife at his throat — and it's up to Ellie to save him by killing another human. It was an ending that didn't really jibe with the character arcs.

Concepts are rejected all the time.

They don't always come up with playable concepts, but often by the use of art concepts, which is created based on a story they have created.

 

[DForce]

What if... Sony's games are indeed overloaded with scripts? Nevermind the cut-scenes, most games have them, always had, they are in fact needed to tell a story, but let's talk about the so-called gameplay, because that's where the whole issue lies I believe - too many scripts make the game feel like "sure, it's not a pre-rendered CGI cut-scene, but I'm not playing the game either" - there are too many, too often, too long moments, where the camera gets locked to a certain position, moves the certain way/speed, you character moves in a certain way/speed, the other characters/object behave exactly the same every single time, half of the buttons on the controller don't do anything for that moment, and so on, and as a result there are too many moments where you just sit and watch as the game basically plays itself. It worked so well in UC2, TLoU pushed the bar even higher, but judging on how much people are complaining about it nowadays, it's safe to say Sony is starting to cross the line.

The other issue is the lack of alternatives, because back in PS3 days we sure got UC2/3, TLoU, Quantic Dream games, but there were also shooters like Killzone, Resistance, MAG, Warchawk, racers like Gran Turismo, Motorstorm, Wipeout, all different kind genres you can think of, with multiple games to choose from, and it was all from Sony themselves, and now? Sony releases quite literally just a single title per year for the PS4, and "somehow" it's always a 3rd person "cinematic experience", so yeah, people have the right to be upset.

People complain about cinematic experience, but they have no problem playing Rise of the Tomb Raider, Red Dead Redemption 2, Call of Duty Campaign, Quantum Break, Halo, Assassins Creed etc.

All of these games have cinematic cutscenes, but they're a problem whenever Sony makes those games.

If they enjoyed most of the games that I mentioned above, then it's obvious that they're just looking for a reason to talk badly about Sony's games.

And the "it's always third person" is ridiculous. A LOT of action games today are third person with cinematic cutscenes. You're either getting first person or third person in most triple a games.

They have no legitimate complaint.

They're clearly just looking for excuses to talk badly about Sony games.

 

[Zaffo]

Most of the people in here are coming out of the woods saying that they actually enjoy Sony's first party output for the high production values and cinematic qualities.
You seem to be one of the few people who takes "cinematic" as some sort of an insult.

 

[Three]

Quantum Break literally had a damn TV show you downloaded into it.

And I still call it a game.

Alan wake 2 literally became a TV series too.

 

[Three]

OP is right when he says it isn’t a Sony-exclusive problem.

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy a good, interactive story, but I find the general strength of the medium to be in delivering fun, interesting experiences throughout a game.

As such, the modern priorities of games seem all wrong to me. These people seem genuinely more interested in delivering a Hollywood-type experience, rather than playing to the strengths of the medium, and immersing or delighting players. Gameplay seems to be an almost secondary concern.

One of my favorite games of the generation is the RE2 remake. You know why? It didn’t tell me the world was scary, through cutscenes dispersed inbetween mediocre, cookie-cutter gameplay. It made me feel that fear, every terrifying moment, with brilliant, immersive, and fun gameplay.

RE2 remake is great but it has almost 2 hours of cutscenes



The game can be completed in 1 hour 30 mins skipping them. How is it any different?

 

[DForce]

Most of the people in here are coming out of the woods saying that they actually enjoy Sony's first party output for the high production values and cinematic qualities.
You seem to be one of the few people who takes "cinematic" as some sort of an insult.

They're calling it a movie with lack of gameplay. This is what this discussion is about. You seem to be the only one not aware that this is a "Let's hash this low level bait out" thread.

 

[DForce]

What I find funny is when Hellblade was announced, people called it a cinematic experience with no gameplay. They called it a movie.

Things changed when it was announced for Xbox.

I also don't see people people complaining about Quantum Break being heavily focused on cinematic, way more than Sony games.

 

[Zaffo]

They're calling it a movie with lack of gameplay. This is what this discussion is about. You seem to be the only one not aware that this is a "Let's hash this low level bait out" thread.

It's their experience and opinion with those kind of games, you can't change it by calling them liars and trolls.
Since myself and lot's of other users are unable to see the depth in games like uncharted and god of war, i encouraged you to to tell everybody why you think those games have depth.

Once again, people cannot prove to you that something doesn't exist, the burden of proving that there is some kind of deep gameplay experience into watching Nathan Drake run through an exploding piece set while slinging jokes it's on you.

 

[DForce]

It's their experience and opinion with those kind of games, you can't change it by calling them liars and trolls.
Since myself and lot's of other users are unable to see the depth in games like uncharted and god of war, i encouraged you to to tell everybody why you think those games have depth.

Once again, people cannot prove to you that something doesn't exist, the burden of proving that there is some kind of deep gameplay experience into watching Nathan Drake run through an exploding piece set while slinging jokes it's on you.

You keep repeating yourself and you're still not getting the point.

They're calling all Sony games cinematic experiences movies.

They don't say the same thing about other non Sony games.

So Horizon Zero Dawn and Days Gone are both cinematic experiences that focuses on story and not gameplay, but Red Dead Redemption 2, Assassins Creed does not.


But you don't see the problem?

 

[Zaffo]

And who are "they"?
People in your school yard teasing you?
I'm talking about the users in this thread who seem to enjoy and support what Sony has to offer and don't take the word "cinematic" as some sort of insult.

 

[Dane]

Here's what I think how it lead to this meme.

I've finished Uncharted 1 and I was playing Uncharted 2 on PS4, they have grade A effort on its visuals, but the gameplay... Its good, but not that you have seen being executed in the same way or better in older games.

I always think that Uncharted is an exploration game that has shooting mechanics, Gears 5 is the inverse, and that means both excells at their main feature and doesn't in their secondary. But it doesn't feel freeley like it was with the PS1 Tomb raider games, but I could be wrong. It feels that the exploration mechanic was attached to the scripting flow rather than the level design as a whole.

Then TLOU came out and again it its more remembered for its visuals and story than its gameplay, which some also considered not to be "something wow". Then the fanbase forced the game up to eleven as it was the masterpiece of masterpieces to the annoying levels for some people.

And finally, they dropped their cartoony and 80% gameplay /20% games like Socom, but still supported the adventure games like the ones from Quantic Dreams, and Sony earned its "stank" for moving from a diverse catalog to one that focused primarily on realistic visuals and story, that's how the meme was born, even if they have games like Spiderman, Gow, Days Gone and Bloodborne.

 

[ph33rknot]

think they got labeled that because of games like 1849

 

[DForce]

And who are "they"?
People in your school yard teasing you?
I'm talking about the users in this thread who seem to enjoy and support what Sony has to offer and don't take the word "cinematic" as some sort of insult.

This thread is literally about about others calling the games movies, cinematic, samey, but you want to pretend barely anyone is discussing this point.

People are literally calling the game samey, movies, too cinematic etc. but you can't see it.

 

[Zaffo]

This thread is literally about about others calling the games movies, cinematic, samey, but you want to pretend barely anyone is discussing this point.

People are literally calling the game samey, movies, too cinematic etc. but you can't see it.

I'm seeing people sharing their fist hand experience with those games, myself included, and you calling them malicious and liars.
Asking over and over for an explanation of why something doesn't exist, while refusing to give proof yourself of the existence of deep gameplay in games like Uncharted.

 

[DForce]

I'm seeing people sharing their fist hand experience with those games, myself included, and you calling them malicious and liars.
Asking over and over for an explanation of why something doesn't exist, while refusing to give proof yourself of the existence of deep gameplay in games like Uncharted.

It doesn't look good when you make up things.

I said people are lying to themselves if they think the Last of Us mechanics have no depth in comparison to a game like Gears.

What IS a lie is saying Last of Us has more cutscenes and they put more focus on that than gameplay.

I offered proof, but I never received a rebuttal. People have yet to prove Sony games focuses more on cutscenes than gameplay.


They also can't prove that the gameplay is shallow.


I offered proof that it wasn't.

You guys just keep saying that it is with no evidence at all.

 

[Clear]

Since myself and lot's of other users are unable to see the depth in games like uncharted and god of war, i encouraged you to to tell everybody why you think those games have depth.

"Depth" compared to what exactly? Give us a benchmark to reference.

Objectively looking at the systems and feature-sets offered both titles seem to me to have more than average for their genres/formats. I mean what exactly do you think they are missing?

 

[Zaffo]

I offered proof, but I never received a rebuttal. People have yet to prove Sony games focuses more on cutscenes than gameplay.

Must have missed that, care to link it again or quote your own post?
I just took a glimpse at that 50 minute video on how to make a contextual melee attack look good, that only proved that first party sony studios go though a lot of effort to get the presentation just right and don't break the cinematic feeling of their games.

 

[Zaffo]

"Depth" compared to what exactly? Give us a benchmark to reference.

Objectively looking at the systems and feature-sets offered both titles seem to me to have more than average for their genres/formats. I mean what exactly do you think they are missing?

I dont like to draw comparisons in order to avoid console warring and shouting matches, also it's not a matter of having or not the feature, by that logic those open world omni games from Ubisoft should be the most in depth experience in the world since they feature all kinds of systems.
And yes, as a matter of fact your Uncharted and God of War have the average elements that your triple A open world/linear cinematic action game would have, they just don't stand a candle in comparison to action games that focuses on the gameplay over the presentation and narration.

 

[Clear]

I dont like to draw comparisons in order to avoid console warring and shouting matches, also it's not a matter of having or not the feature, by that logic those open world omni games from Ubisoft should be the most in depth experience in the world since they feature all kinds of systems.
And yes, as a matter of fact your Uncharted and God of War have the average elements that your triple A open world/linear cinematic action game would have, they just don't stand a candle in comparison to action games that focuses on the gameplay over the presentation and narration.

We don't have to go near console warring to debate the point.

For instance, lets compare say TLOU with Resident Evil 4. Seems like a fair comparison to me as both games received numerous accolades in the day, have a bunch of thematic similarities, the same basic on-screen presentation/layout, etc.

It seems to me that you simply cannot rate RE4 at all if you have an issue with TLOU.

Agree/Disagree?

 

[Dibils2k]

i mean TLOU is a movie, or it should have been. the gameplay parts are extremely repetitive (and boring, but i dont like stealth)

Uncharted 4 is majority cutscenes and walking

God Of War was not though, i feared it would be from the initial videos but there was depth to the gameplay and the systems behind it

 

[Smaller than Atom]

The really funny thing is why you dont like that "Sony games are considered movies"

Really. Who gives a shit how they're classified? Are they fun as hell?

Yes!

 

[Zaffo]

We don't have to go near console warring to debate the point.

For instance, lets compare say TLOU with Resident Evil 4. Seems like a fair comparison to me as both games received numerous accolades in the day, have a bunch of thematic similarities, the same basic on-screen presentation/layout, etc.

It seems to me that you simply cannot rate RE4 at all if you have an issue with TLOU.

Agree/Disagree?

Well that's the game i was thinking about when you asked me for a comparison, and in my mind i thought "nope can't bring out RE4, that would actually be unfair" so you tell me...
Looking only at the gameplay side of things, how does TLOU stack against the combat mechanics, encounter design, weapon design, enemy design, freedom of approach, character progression and so on and so forth from RE4, because in my eyes there is an abyss between those two games.

 

[DeepEnigma]

RE2 remake is great but it has almost 2 hours of cutscenes



The game can be completed in 1 hour 30 mins skipping them. How is it any different?

That is easy. It's not a Sony game.

 

[cireza]

I read OP and conclude that I have the right to call these games movies. Fantastic news, I plan to continue doing so !

 

[DForce]

Must have missed that, care to link it again or quote your own post?
I just took a glimpse at that 50 minute video on how to make a contextual melee attack look good, that only proved that first party sony studios go though a lot of effort to get the presentation just right and don't break the cinematic feeling of their games.

That's ridiculous.

Making melee attacks look good simply just gives a feel of immersion.

Capcom does it with Resident Evil 2 when you're attacked by a zombie and\or you defend yourself by putting a knife through their chest.

Doom 2016 does it with their melee kills.

Gears 5 has it, too

This is the problem with your argument.

You don't hold other games to the same standard when this very common in video games.

See why I shake my head when people try to drive home the false narrative that Sony games are the only ones doing this stuff?

Melee attacks in games react differently based on where you are in the environment

If there was NOT a focus on gameplay, then it wouldn't matter.

Joel can kick an enemy down the stairs.
Joel can grab the legs of an enemy and pull them down off objects.

You simply label this as animation, when it's paying attention to gameplay detail.




@ the 34:00 mark, it talks about fighting in uneven terrain.

This is a problem in a lot of games because your attack will often miss when the enemy is lower or higher than you are.

There are a lot of details within this video that many game developers don't even consider. This is why I laugh when people say they focus more on cutscenes than gameplay.



And about the very basic part?


Many shooting game don't have these mechanics, even some of the competitive games out there.


Each player can be unique with survival skills equipped in the multiplayer. Someone who says the gameplay is VERY basic IS in fact lying.

Each weapon can be upgraded during a match.

Each survival skill has 3 levels


Nobody offered proof of that they focus more on cutscenes and they can't prove that the gameplay is very basic.

 

[Deleted member 740922]

The really funny thing is why you dont like that "Sony games are considered movies"

Really. Who gives a shit how they're classified? Are they fun as hell?

Yes!

Indeed. What a bizarre thing to get wound up about

 

[Negotiator]

I have 2200 hours in UC3 and 1500 hours in UC4, according to Sony. Not sure about UC2, but I played it a lot back in the day. TLOU MP too.

Try to convince me that I spent so many hours playing these games just for the "cinematic" experience and not for the gameplay/MP...

It goes without saying that I've beaten all SP campaigns at the highest difficulty (Uncharted/Crushing, TLOU/Grounded).

To me, it seems kinda ironic when people complain about Sony "movie games" and yet, they never give them a chance at higher difficulties, let alone trying the MP component.

Just admit you're a casual gamer and/or you're bad at playing shooters. Nothing wrong with that, but don't pretend to be a "hardcore" gamer, because you're not. Bashing games is easy when you never gave them a fair shake to begin with.

 

[Deleted member 740922]

Just admit you're a casual gamer and/or you're bad at playing shooters. Nothing wrong with that, but don't pretend to be a "hardcore" gamer, because you're not

Wow...

 

[Clear]

Well that's the game i was thinking about when you asked me for a comparison, and in my mind i thought "nope can't bring out RE4, that would actually be unfair" so you tell me...
Looking only at the gameplay side of things, how does TLOU stack against the combat mechanics, encounter design, weapon design, enemy design, freedom of approach, character progression and so on and so forth from RE4, because in my eyes there is an abyss between those two games.

Well, for me mechanically TLOU is miles ahead of RE4. Like, not even close. RE4 only gives an impression of complexity because the environment is studded with contextual events that in most instances are one-time-only.

TLOU has better and more fluid traversal/cover, actually allows you to shoot and move, stealth mechanics, a far more iterated melee-system, real-time crafting, and an entire stand-alone multiplayer mode.

TLOU isn't bogged down by QTE's, including whole set-pieces/boss-fights that are nothing but "simon says" press the button that appears on screen. Yes, at times the action is punctuated by lengthy animations where the player and the side-kick character team up to pass obstacles, but they at least are separate to the combat loop and typically used as part of exploration/puzzle solving. Its also somewhat understandable given that the side-kick is present through the majority of the story and the overall level of visual fidelity is so much higher.

As to the rest of the package... you just can't argue that the story, writing, performances and cinematics of TLOU are in a whole other class to RE's campy sillyness.

 

[FMXVII]

That's true, i hate game cutscene cinematics since MGS series, they didn't even let me pass them arrgh...

Borederlands 3 (sic).

Unskippable cutscenes and bad dialogue make up at least 49% of the main game's actual "play" time.

Spend 5 minutes shooting. Go to Sanctuary. Talk to Lilith. Wait through 5 minutes of dialogue and cutscenes. Rinse. Repeat.

I literally spent half of BL3 browsing GAF.

 

[DonF]

Anyone have a general idea when it comes to making games what comes first?

1. Dev wants to make a shooter. They'll figure out story, art style, setting later

2. Dev has a general storyline and setting to go. Will figure out soon after whether to take that info and make an RPG or action game

Set pieces first, at least in uncharted
I believe that most games must follow this, considering that gameplay is king.

 

[Shifty]

BS if Zelda had no story focus then why is the opening 1-2 hours of Twilight Princess filled with it?
I hate people who dismiss FPS ad point and the enemy die games, it's a gross simplification and an insult to any game designer, Doom 2 is still one of the GOAT and is still fun to this day.

Twilight Princess is an outlier, and past that long-ass intro is no different to any other Zelda game: More adventure, less story.

And wow, defensive much? Ain't nothing wrong with a good old fashioned click man until dead game. I've sunk untold hours into Doom 1 and 2 through source ports and PWADs, and also happen to be fluent in DECORATE , Doom Builder and ACS.

Trained policeman vs a teen and a survivor with limited experience with guns. It makes sense.

It's literally Leon's first day on the job during the events of RE2, and Claire is a college student who presumably learned how to shoot from Chris, but doesn't have any real combat experience.

It really doesn't make sense.

But I mean, you must love the pinpoint accuracy of Uncharted.... oh no, there is another problem with that gameplay.... what is it now?

When did I say I didn't like Uncharted, or TLoU for that matter? They're both fine. They're also both linear, story-led affairs that are dead easy to point out.

All of the PlayStation games are very different from Studio to studio and to use these broad strokes is pathetic.
You might as well call the whole industry shit and give up on gaming. I mean I really like the Witcher 3 and the gameplay was just about passable, I'd rate even mediocre PS games miles ahead of it in play-ability.

Imagine being so affected by a GAF meme that you start tilting at windmills when someone points out obvious game design choices and backs it up with reasoning

Why does link go to the past?

Where is link going on his journey?

Why is Samus go to planet Zebes?


They don't make these worlds just for the purpose of having a player just play the level, it's generally a story behind it.

This doesn't happen all the time, but that's generally how art is made.

Well yeah, that's my point- you need a story to drive the player through a campaign, but it being there doesn't automatically mean it's the focus. LttP and Super Metroid have a story to drive the game, but it's absolutely minimal compared to the amount of time you spend adventuring and actually engaging with the gameplay. You can go hours without seeing a scrap of plot.

The mechanic is design to be realistic. If it were not "floaty" then it would be much easier to aim your shot at an enemy. I would totally hate this during multiplayer because many guns would appear broken.

This can be be sightly changed when you upgrade your weapon or sway through singleplayer\multiplayer, though.

And thus serves the story over the gameplay, because ND prioritize that in their design. If multiplayer doesn't have it (or has less) then that only goes to further prove the point because there's no longer a story to serve in that context.

Yes, your hand doesn't wobble in RE2, but your accuracy changes after every shot. The corsair gets bigger after a single shot of the handgun, which make it harder to have complete accuracy after every shot.

Thus progressing the gameplay loop and forcing the player to make a value judgement on whether they should wait and shoot or move and make space to remain safe.

I grew up playing games like Counter Strike and controlling your aim was key and it kept players from running, and gunning people down at a high rate. It actually took some skill to engage in battle.

That's just me personally though.

I'm not entirely sure of the point you're trying to make with this.

RE2 remake is great but it has almost 2 hours of cutscenes



The game can be completed in 1 hour 30 mins skipping them. How is it any different?

Being able to speedrun a game so fast that your total playtime is less than the runtime of its cutscenes does not suddenly mean the game is story focused. Average first-playthrough length is 8 hours for RE2make, plus extra to do Route B and see the remainder of its story.

I give these mental gymnastics a

 

[rofif]

I swear some people here are NUTS !
YOu must have a button doing something otherwise every game would need to be a mix of Die by the Sword with mouse sword controls and Trespasser in other hand.
Having story in a game is great. Linear single player games are great (and very rare nowadays) so it's all good as long as You can skip movies.
The only game I've played where cutscenes hintered replayability is Max Payne 3. That fucking game is so good but it is unplayable. There is a lenghty cutscene every next corridor

 

[Helios]

I have 2200 hours in UC3 and 1500 hours in UC4, according to Sony. Not sure about UC2, but I played it a lot back in the day. TLOU MP too.

Try to convince me that I spent so many hours playing these games just for the "cinematic" experience and not for the gameplay/MP...

It goes without saying that I've beaten all SP campaigns at the highest difficulty (Uncharted/Crushing, TLOU/Grounded).

To me, it seems kinda ironic when people complain about Sony "movie games" and yet, they never give them a chance at higher difficulties, let alone trying the MP component.

Just admit you're a casual gamer and/or you're bad at playing shooters. Nothing wrong with that, but don't pretend to be a "hardcore" gamer, because you're not. Bashing games is easy when you never gave them a fair shake to begin with.

"I've got 2200 hours in Uncharted 3, I'm a hardcore gamer."

 

[Negotiator]

"I've got 2200 hours in Uncharted 3, I'm a hardcore gamer."

Too bad the PS3 MP servers are down, or else I'd invite you to play together and see firsthand who's casual and who's hardcore.

If you still think Uncharted MP takes "zero skill" because it's so "cinematic", then maybe you should try UC4 MP? There's improved gunplay and 60 fps.

Put up or shut up. As simple as that.

 

[Bryank75]

Twilight Princess is an outlier, and past that long-ass intro is no different to any other Zelda game: More adventure, less story.

And wow, defensive much? Ain't nothing wrong with a good old fashioned click man until dead game. I've sunk untold hours into Doom 1 and 2 through source ports and PWADs, and also happen to be fluent in DECORATE , Doom Builder and ACS.


It's literally Leon's first day on the job during the events of RE2, and Claire is a college student who presumably learned how to shoot from Chris, but doesn't have any real combat experience.

It really doesn't make sense.


When did I say I didn't like Uncharted, or TLoU for that matter? They're both fine. They're also both linear, story-led affairs that are dead easy to point out.


Imagine being so affected by a GAF meme that you start tilting at windmills when someone points out obvious game design choices and backs it up with reasoning


Well yeah, that's my point- you need a story to drive the player through a campaign, but it being there doesn't automatically mean it's the focus. LttP and Super Metroid have a story to drive the game, but it's absolutely minimal compared to the amount of time you spend adventuring and actually engaging with the gameplay. You can go hours without seeing a scrap of plot.


And thus serves the story over the gameplay, because ND prioritize that in their design. If multiplayer doesn't have it (or has less) then that only goes to further prove the point because there's no longer a story to serve in that context.


Thus progressing the gameplay loop and forcing the player to make a value judgement on whether they should wait and shoot or move and make space to remain safe.


I'm not entirely sure of the point you're trying to make with this.


Being able to speedrun a game so fast that your total playtime is less than the runtime of its cutscenes does not suddenly mean the game is story focused. Average first-playthrough length is 8 hours for RE2make, plus extra to do Route B and see the remainder of its story.

I give these mental gymnastics a

Naaaa, I just understand that PlayStation are one of the few games companies left that actually invest and care a lot about the games they put out there and I'd rather that a few edge lords and MS/nintendo/steam worshipers would focus on getting their chosen 'God-companies' to make something original.

Instead of taking cheap jabs at games that actually try and do something new or different

I like RE2 but the mechanics are very old now, it's basic in a multitude of ways.... very stiff animations, gunplay etc. There is much more emergent gameplay in TLOU and that is just a fact. The systems allow you to improve your aim.... so just upgrade it and stop complaining, job done. Maybe you got killed too many times in the early game?

I don't like criticizing Capcom, cause they along with PS, CDPR and one or two others are the only companies that are consistent and don't engage in many shitty practices.

For me PlayStation WWS, CDPR, Capcom and Nintendo are all top tier. Not beyond valid criticism...but the crap in here is not valid.... it's jealous ramblings and nitpicking.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Twilight Princess is an outlier, and past that long-ass intro is no different to any other Zelda game: More adventure, less story.

And wow, defensive much? Ain't nothing wrong with a good old fashioned click man until dead game. I've sunk untold hours into Doom 1 and 2 through source ports and PWADs, and also happen to be fluent in DECORATE , Doom Builder and ACS.

I'm guessing Skyward Sword is an outlier too.

 

[DForce]

Well yeah, that's my point- you need a story to drive the player through a campaign, but it being there doesn't automatically mean it's the focus. LttP and Super Metroid have a story to drive the game, but it's absolutely minimal compared to the amount of time you spend adventuring and actually engaging with the gameplay. You can go hours without seeing a scrap of plot

You don't realize that gameplay mechanics are very small amount of gameplay compared to the scope of the actual story, environments etc.

And thus serves the story over the gameplay, because ND prioritize that in their design. If multiplayer doesn't have it (or has less) then that only goes to further prove the point because there's no longer a story to serve in that context.

What are you talking about?

This makes no sense.

Multiplayer does have it. You can upgrade your gun in single player and multiplayer to have less.

floating mechanics doesn't prove your point. It's simply a mechanic to make the aiming harder. It's like recoil in FPS.

Games are not always give you laser focused aiming.

I'm not entirely sure of the point you're trying to make with this.

Here is what you said.

They're purposefully floaty and hard to use because that makes sense for a character trying to fight off hordes of fungal zombies and hostile survivors: It's a high-pressure situation that would cause someone's hands to shake.

This is simply not true.

They make aiming harder in games to not give players the ability to have laser focused aiming.

That's the purpose of the floating mechanics. It has nothing to do with making the character feel like they're in a high-pressure situation.

 

[Mochilador]

Anyone have a general idea when it comes to making games what comes first?

1. Dev wants to make a shooter. They'll figure out story, art style, setting later

2. Dev has a general storyline and setting to go. Will figure out soon after whether to take that info and make an RPG or action game

Nintendo seems to go with the first option. They'll take an idea and try to fit it into an existing franchise.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I have 2200 hours in UC3 and 1500 hours in UC4, according to Sony. Not sure about UC2, but I played it a lot back in the day. TLOU MP too.

Try to convince me that I spent so many hours playing these games just for the "cinematic" experience and not for the gameplay/MP...

It goes without saying that I've beaten all SP campaigns at the highest difficulty (Uncharted/Crushing, TLOU/Grounded).

To me, it seems kinda ironic when people complain about Sony "movie games" and yet, they never give them a chance at higher difficulties, let alone trying the MP component.

Just admit you're a casual gamer and/or you're bad at playing shooters. Nothing wrong with that, but don't pretend to be a "hardcore" gamer, because you're not. Bashing games is easy when you never gave them a fair shake to begin with.

It's also possible I just don't like Uncharted, but then, I didn't waste like 90 days on a game I thought was garbage, so what do I know?

 

[New Yorks Finest]

I'll wait for TheLastWord to explain it in better terms when he rises back like the phoenix that he is.

I was hoping his wings were chopped for good, guess the bad negative energy will rise again

 

[New Yorks Finest]

I have 2200 hours in UC3 and 1500 hours in UC4, according to Sony. Not sure about UC2, but I played it a lot back in the day. TLOU MP too.

Try to convince me that I spent so many hours playing these games just for the "cinematic" experience and not for the gameplay/MP...

It goes without saying that I've beaten all SP campaigns at the highest difficulty (Uncharted/Crushing, TLOU/Grounded).

To me, it seems kinda ironic when people complain about Sony "movie games" and yet, they never give them a chance at higher difficulties, let alone trying the MP component.

Just admit you're a casual gamer and/or you're bad at playing shooters. Nothing wrong with that, but don't pretend to be a "hardcore" gamer, because you're not. Bashing games is easy when you never gave them a fair shake to begin with.

Ma dude??!! I feel sorry for you..2 thousand mutha @#$% 2 hundred hours playing a video gm?? ..I'm not even gonna ask you about your social life.