PS4 - Vita Remote play will support native vita resolution

Afrikan

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biggest concern for me is if 1080p games gonna have small text and UI, that will not translate well to Vita resolution, and not many dev will bother to program a more appropriate UI and font for Vita
couldn't the multiple "Display Planes" output features come into play here? I heard the 720 has 3, but the PS4 is suppose to have 2 I believe. So maybe the PS4's settings will output text/hud differently when it knows its outputting to the Vita?
 

EMT0

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All my concerns have been eased.

Seriously, we're most likely getting native emulation of games and more good news for Vita streaming. Get happy, GAF.
 

kitch9

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I've got twins on the way, I'm going to need this shit as my TV will probably only be playing constant re-runs of Twinkle do dar, or whatever other mind bending shite they watch.
 

Crimson_Gold

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This has made me love my Vita even more. I plan on using this feature as much as possible. I wonder what this means for cross-game purchases
 

crinale

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I think the point is PS4 will have dedicated function to encode the image into 960 * 544 pixels before transmitting, to achieve maximum efficiency.
How does WiiU transmit the image to gamepad? I thought it transmits 1280 * 720 resolution then let the gamepad compress the image. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.
 

monome

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I can't help but think that latency will ruin this :/
definitely the problem with PS4 presentation. the entire GAIKAI thing was very cloudy in terms of realness or promises.

Supposedly, PS4 having GAIKAI tech is the key to it being a no problemo.
Reeks of magic sauce and wizard jizz of yores but that's not too far fetched either.
 

Skyzard

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definitely the problem with PS4 presentation. the entire GAIKAI thing was very cloudy in terms of realness or promises.

Supposedly, PS4 having GAIKAI tech is the key to it being a no problemo.
Reeks of magic sauce and wizard jizz of yores but that's not too far fetched either.
Yeah it could actually work decently especially with the description of the separate cpu and using things they learnt from gaikai to help with ps4->vita. And that the PS3 could barely handle most games, should be quite a step up. It probably won't be responsive enough for fast FPS games and likely racing too, but for most other games I'm quite hopeful after the presentation and Yoshida's followup responses.
 
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That's great and all but it all comes down to lag. If it plays anything like the current remote play then the feature is pretty much useless as far as I'm concerned.

If they can make it mostly lag free though? That's a system selling feature for me.
 

monome

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Yeah it could actually work decently especially with the description of the separate cpu and using things they learnt from gaikai to help with ps4->vita. And that the PS3 could barely handle most games, should be quite a step up. It probably won't be responsive enough for fast FPS games and likely racing too, but for most other games I'm quite hopeful after the presentation and Yoshida's followup responses.
That's great and all but it all comes down to lag. If it plays anything like the current remote play then the feature is pretty much useless as far as I'm concerned.

If they can make it mostly lag free though? That's a system selling feature for me.
agreed on both counts.

If it works, it should be a system seller feature. Hopfeully it is, and the realm of gamers interested in that goes beyond GAFers. otherwise Sony will have another well thought tech that nobody cares about on its patent slate.
 

Callibretto

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definitely the problem with PS4 presentation. the entire GAIKAI thing was very cloudy in terms of realness or promises.

Supposedly, PS4 having GAIKAI tech is the key to it being a no problemo.
Reeks of magic sauce and wizard jizz of yores but that's not too far fetched either.
the game streaming stuff is questionable and stuff I need to see to believe.

the remote play stuff seems pretty realistic and doable though. at least from my experience with ps3/vita remote play.

I used ps3/vita remote play on local network and it work pretty well, I even tried vita to remote play ps3, then ps3 use dlna media server to watch videos stored in my computer.

with PS4 and Vita support wireless N, and PS4 having it's own chip to encode video and whatever codec Gaikai use, I can see PS4/Vita remote play to work very well on at least the local network, which is exciting enough for me.
 

amstradcpc

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couldn't the multiple "Display Planes" output features come into play here? I heard the 720 has 3, but the PS4 is suppose to have 2 I believe. So maybe the PS4's settings will output text/hud differently when it knows its outputting to the Vita?
Yeah, each display plane had a downscaler, perfect to convert to Vita resolution.
 

DBT85

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I've seen people talk about the latency on the WiiU being great and hoping that the PS4 is the same. What method of data transfer is used between the WiiU and the tablet?



No it doesn't! Currently the remote play on vita via ps3 is rendered at psp resolution.
No, most remote play is at PSP res, but the games he listed are all sporting a higher resolution remote play. Though it's still not Vita native iirc.
 

Cidd

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that's quite impressive if they pull it off, hopefully there wont be to much lag.
 

Abandond

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So how likely is it that Sony will release a PSV/PS4 bundle on launch? I would definitely consider it.
 

danhese007

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I've seen people talk about the latency on the WiiU being great and hoping that the PS4 is the same. What method of data transfer is used between the WiiU and the tablet?
WiiU uses Wifi Direct Miracast on Wifi N 5GHz Band to reduce interference from other Wifi signals. Standard Miracast uses H.264 codec but I'm thinking Nintendo must have developed their own proprietary codec which reduces the bit-rate and latency further.

No, most remote play is at PSP res, but the games he listed are all sporting a higher resolution remote play. Though it's still not Vita native iirc.
PS3 to PS Vita remoteplay is streamed at 480 x 272 but upscaled to the Vita's native 960 x 544 display. Future titles designed around PS3 to Vita remoteplay will be able to stream at 640 × 480
 

Massa

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No it doesn't! Currently the remote play on vita via ps3 is rendered at psp resolution.
Not the 5 games that support the Vita exclusively.

I can't help but think that latency will ruin this :/
What will ruin this is the FOV and UI elements of PS4 games being designed for a 50" TV rather than a 5" screen. Unless of course Sony releases a Vita tablet. :p
 

BigDug13

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haha, all dat powa needed to output a game at a lower res...
Isn't that good though? The GPU actually bringing the game resolution down to native Vita resolution should result in a nice image quality.

This is really forward thinking too. Basically makes the Vita into a high def version of the Wii-U controller with its ability to play games without a TV. And it's a wii-u controller that you can take with you on the go.
 

Durante

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Do you think there'll be the same visual benefits with this remote play as there is with downsampling on pc?
Well, if they do it the straightforward way (and why wouldn't they?) you'll get 4xSSAA in 1080p games (on top of whatever AA they are already doing). And you'll see it on a high-DPI OLED screen. IQ should be glorious, unequaled in the console/portable space.

Well, as long as the compression doesn't kill it that is. But I don't see why it should be too bad over the local network.


Not the 5 games that support the Vita exclusively.
Which are those? I'd like to try it.
 

Zoramon089

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Won't resized HUDs be a problem? Unless devs tailor HUDs for remote play, in the same way devs probably have different HUD assets for WiiU off screen play, you'll be getting really tiny HUD elements. Thankfully the Vita has the resolution to allow them to still be sharp but they'll be tiny

Isn't that good though? The GPU actually bringing the game resolution down to native Vita resolution should result in a nice image quality.

This is really forward thinking too. Basically makes the Vita into a high def version of the Wii-U controller with its ability to play games without a TV. And it's a wii-u controller that you can take with you on the go.
Mm, I'm not sure how willing people will be to use it remotely when games are being transferred over wifi or mobile network. In fact, I'm still waiting to see a demonstration of this and how the lag is. The thought of 60fps games being in realtime with no lag seems unlikely and unlike online games where you can use tricks/prediction to hide the lag, you can't really do this in single player games
 

Durante

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Won't resized HUDs be a problem? Unless devs tailor HUDs for remote play, in the same way devs probably have different HUD assets for WiiU off screen play, you'll be getting really tiny HUD elements. Thankfully the Vita has the resolution to allow them to still be sharp but they'll be tiny
I've played quite a few current-gen console games in a 540p window (don't ask), and in the vast majority the GUI AND HUD are perfectly usable with that. So unless developer plan to reduce their size next gen that should mostly be fine.
 

Nerfgun

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WiiU uses Wifi Direct Miracast on Wifi N 5GHz Band to reduce interference from other Wifi signals. Standard Miracast uses H.264 codec but I'm thinking Nintendo must have developed their own proprietary codec which reduces the bit-rate and latency further.
It's extremely unlikely that Nintendo developed their own codec. It's fairly standard Miracast stuff. Nintendo has no expertise (or call) to do such a thing.

PS3 to PS Vita remoteplay is streamed at 480 x 272 but upscaled to the Vita's native 960 x 544 display. Future titles designed around PS3 to Vita remoteplay will be able to stream at 640 × 480
I don't understand where you are getting 640x480 from. That's SD rez and besides not even the right aspect ratio for Vita. Surely with dedicated hardware and 802.11n at their disposal, Sony can stream qHD to the Vita with very little problem.
 
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Won't resized HUDs be a problem? Unless devs tailor HUDs for remote play, in the same way devs probably have different HUD assets for WiiU off screen play, you'll be getting really tiny HUD elements. Thankfully the Vita has the resolution to allow them to still be sharp but they'll be tiny
Vita has 16:9 aspect ratio screen. HUD can be scaled to Vita resolution without problem, because there is no memory used for assets. It's like universal games for iPad/iPhone.
 

Srsly

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It seems weird that they wouldn't just have PS1 emulation out of the gate as that would be incredibly trivial to do.
 

kuroshiki

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It seems weird that they wouldn't just have PS1 emulation out of the gate as that would be incredibly trivial to do.
At this point PS1 emulation is just... universal. even smartphone can do it without much problem.

Besides, playing 320 x 240 resolution game on 1080p screen is just.... goddamn awful.
 

Zoramon089

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It's extremely unlikely that Nintendo developed their own codec. It's fairly standard Miracast stuff. Nintendo has no expertise (or call) to do such a thing.
Uhh, read the Iwata Talks on it. They most definitely developed their own version of the standard miracast stuff. Yeah it was a collaborative effort but implying they just borrowed tech completely unchanged isn't true at all

Anyway, getting back on topic, how does remote play work for the Vita exclusive games? I'm guessing a lot better than it does with PSP games
 

Cisce

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At this point PS1 emulation is just... universal. even smartphone can do it without much problem.

Besides, playing 320 x 240 resolution game on 1080p screen is just.... goddamn awful.
Not if we actually have anti aliasing and filtering, which has been in emulators for years.

I'd be pretty annoyed if PS1 support on the PS4 is identical to the PS2 and PS3.
 

danhese007

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It's extremely unlikely that Nintendo developed their own codec. It's fairly standard Miracast stuff. Nintendo has no expertise (or call) to do such a thing.
I'm pretty sure i said Nintendo must have developed their own proprietary codec to reduce the bitrate and latency further (they have the money and can hire engineers to do so). I have come to this conclusion because I have noticed that WiiU latency is lower than standard Miracast when compared to Miracast on Phones I have used.

I don't understand where you are getting 640x480 from. That's SD rez and besides not even the right aspect ratio for Vita. Surely with dedicated hardware and 802.11n at their disposal, Sony can stream qHD to the Vita with very little problem.
I'm sure you understand that I'm talking about Remoteplay on PS3 and Vita and not PS4. Current remoteplay on Vita and PS3 runs at PSP native resolution then, upscaled to PS Vita native resolution. Yoshida clarifies in a statement in 2012 that titles designed around the constraints of PS3 to support remoteplay will be able to stream a 480p video (could be 854×480 which is the same aspect ratio as PS Vita) then upscaled to PS Vita rather than the PSP's 480 x 272.

I envision remoteplay on PS4 to be greatly improved by;

1. Just the fact that PS4 and Vita uses Wifi N improves remoteplay as it is.
2. The fact that PS4 has a dedicated video encode and decode hardware that does video encoding on the fly without any lag or resources needed from the APU also improves latency a lot.
3. Remoteplay on PS4 now also uses Sony's Gaikai underlying technology which means Remoteplay over internet will have an improved latency.
 

EVIL

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Isn't that good though? The GPU actually bringing the game resolution down to native Vita resolution should result in a nice image quality.

This is really forward thinking too. Basically makes the Vita into a high def version of the Wii-U controller with its ability to play games without a TV. And it's a wii-u controller that you can take with you on the go.
854 x 480 is the reso of the wiiu pad. Thee vita is 960 x 520, only a fraction bigger.
 

kuroshiki

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Uhh, read the Iwata Talks on it. They most definitely developed their own version of the standard miracast stuff. Yeah it was a collaborative effort but implying they just borrowed tech completely unchanged isn't true at all

Anyway, getting back on topic, how does remote play work for the Vita exclusive games? I'm guessing a lot better than it does with PSP games
Codec is not something just 'oh I woke up one day and make it'. I'm pretty certain that Iwata was only talking about hardware, not the software. (Just seeing how goddamn awful they are in standard OS stuff, I don't think they have expertise to create video codec just for themselves)
 

Nerfgun

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I'm pretty sure i said Nintendo must have developed their own proprietary codec to reduce the bitrate and latency further because. I have come to this conclusion because I have noticed that WiiU latency is lower than standard Miracast when compared to Miracast on Phones I have used.
That has to be hardware tweaks though. Developing a codec is super intensive, takes years sometimes, and they have the option of simply using a more aggressive codec within the H.264 spec. And a codec won't help latency at any rate, not directly. I know it's not bog standard Miracast but it's not that far off (Miracast is quite good). If it wasn't H.264 they'd have to include multiple hardware decodes, and they need H.264 for everything else, so the simplest answer is just that the hardware is tweaked. (iPhone example is not a great comparison BTW.)

Sure you understand that I'm talking about Remoteplay on PS3 and Vita and not PS4. Current remoteplay on Vita and PS3 runs at PSP native resolution then, upscaled to PS Vita native resolution. Yoshida clarifies in a statement in 2012 that titles designed around the constraints of PS3 to support remoteplay will be able to stream a 480p video then upscaled to PS Vita rather than the PSP's 480 x 272.
Oh I see. Yeah the PS3 has some limitations obviously.
 

Harlock

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Sony will need some high tech software to emulate PS1 titles in a console with PC architecture.

 

Mammoth Jones

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The more I read about the PS4 the more I think I'll be getting it day one.

I like what I'm reading.

Now don't screw it up, Sony.
 

Zen

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Well since Sony is mandatign devs have their Vita control layout in place for every PS4 title, and custom ouputing the image at Vitas native res, I wouldn't be surpirsed if Sony will also mandate a modified hud.
 

Zoramon089

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Sony will need some high tech software to emulate PS1 titles in a console with PC architecture.

This is how I first played Crash and Spyro. To this day I don't know how this was even allowed to be sold in stores and how they weren't sued instantly
 

DBT85

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Well, if they do it the straightforward way (and why wouldn't they?) you'll get 4xSSAA in 1080p games (on top of whatever AA they are already doing). And you'll see it on a high-DPI OLED screen. IQ should be glorious, unequaled in the console/portable space.

Well, as long as the compression doesn't kill it that is. But I don't see why it should be too bad over the local network.
Should simply watching the 1080 videos for the PS4 content on the Vita give a representative view, minus any compression artefacts?

Or is that not accurate?
 

onQ123

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Sony will need some high tech software to emulate PS1 titles in a console with PC architecture.


with the PS4 hardware Sony can Emulate PS1,PS2,N64,Dreamcast,Wii, Gamecube & so on the problem is being careful not to open up Pandora's Box by emulating a PS2 & a hacker using a old PS2 hack to get into the PS4.

PS2 level power isn't much but you know hackers will claim victory the second they get in lol.
 

yurinka

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If the input lag isn't up to the quality of the WiiU pad then it will be useless. Really hope it is.
I assume that when doing remote play locally Vita will be connected to PS4 through bluetooth as if it was another DS4 controller to send the control inputs, so it only the lag generated by the video streaming through wifi n to vita would generate lag.
That has to be hardware tweaks though. Developing a codec is super intensive, takes years sometimes, and they have the option of simply using a more aggressive codec within the H.264 spec. And a codec won't help latency at any rate, not directly. I know it's not bog standard Miracast but it's not that far off (Miracast is quite good). If it wasn't H.264 they'd have to include multiple hardware decodes, and they need H.264 for everything else, so the simplest answer is just that the hardware is tweaked. (iPhone example is not a great comparison BTW.)
It was said somewhere that PS4 has dedicated hardware to code/decode streaming.
In addition to this, I smell that the Gaikai guys would have some cool codec. Which one did they use in PC?
Did a search and this is the 1st I found :
http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1656052&postcount=82
 

3rdamention

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Almost. Pretty much all games except camera specific games (Move title, dance games etc.). It may also be possible that developers may be able to opt out of using the feature... unsure though.

Bearing in mind that the Vita's native resolution (960x540) is exactly 4x less than full hd (1920x1080) - qHD as Vita gaf call it, this should look pretty incredible.

I thought they said at the conference that ALL PS4 games, besides the specific ones you listed, would work with Remote Play since the Hardware on the PS4 was doing all the work. My understanding was that developers didn't have to do anything special on the coding side.