couldn't the multiple "Display Planes" output features come into play here? I heard the 720 has 3, but the PS4 is suppose to have 2 I believe. So maybe the PS4's settings will output text/hud differently when it knows its outputting to the Vita?
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PS4 - Vita Remote play will support native vita resolution
- Thread starter raven777
- Start date
couldn't the multiple "Display Planes" output features come into play here? I heard the 720 has 3, but the PS4 is suppose to have 2 I believe. So maybe the PS4's settings will output text/hud differently when it knows its outputting to the Vita?
Crimson_Gold
Member
This has made me love my Vita even more. I plan on using this feature as much as possible. I wonder what this means for cross-game purchases
I think the point is PS4 will have dedicated function to encode the image into 960 * 544 pixels before transmitting, to achieve maximum efficiency.
How does WiiU transmit the image to gamepad? I thought it transmits 1280 * 720 resolution then let the gamepad compress the image. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.
How does WiiU transmit the image to gamepad? I thought it transmits 1280 * 720 resolution then let the gamepad compress the image. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.
definitely the problem with PS4 presentation. the entire GAIKAI thing was very cloudy in terms of realness or promises.
Supposedly, PS4 having GAIKAI tech is the key to it being a no problemo.
Reeks of magic sauce and wizard jizz of yores but that's not too far fetched either.
Yeah it could actually work decently especially with the description of the separate cpu and using things they learnt from gaikai to help with ps4->vita. And that the PS3 could barely handle most games, should be quite a step up. It probably won't be responsive enough for fast FPS games and likely racing too, but for most other games I'm quite hopeful after the presentation and Yoshida's followup responses.
Shalashaska161
Member
That's great and all but it all comes down to lag. If it plays anything like the current remote play then the feature is pretty much useless as far as I'm concerned.
If they can make it mostly lag free though? That's a system selling feature for me.
If they can make it mostly lag free though? That's a system selling feature for me.
agreed on both counts.
If it works, it should be a system seller feature. Hopfeully it is, and the realm of gamers interested in that goes beyond GAFers. otherwise Sony will have another well thought tech that nobody cares about on its patent slate.
Callibretto
Member
the game streaming stuff is questionable and stuff I need to see to believe.
the remote play stuff seems pretty realistic and doable though. at least from my experience with ps3/vita remote play.
I used ps3/vita remote play on local network and it work pretty well, I even tried vita to remote play ps3, then ps3 use dlna media server to watch videos stored in my computer.
with PS4 and Vita support wireless N, and PS4 having it's own chip to encode video and whatever codec Gaikai use, I can see PS4/Vita remote play to work very well on at least the local network, which is exciting enough for me.
amstradcpc
Member
Yeah, each display plane had a downscaler, perfect to convert to Vita resolution.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/393510/killzone-shadow-fall-preview-ps4/?page=2#top_banner
Posted in the Killzone thread but also relevant here.
More confirmation that it is indeed a system wide feature.
Posted in the Killzone thread but also relevant here.
More confirmation that it is indeed a system wide feature.
I've seen people talk about the latency on the WiiU being great and hoping that the PS4 is the same. What method of data transfer is used between the WiiU and the tablet?
No, most remote play is at PSP res, but the games he listed are all sporting a higher resolution remote play. Though it's still not Vita native iirc.
No, most remote play is at PSP res, but the games he listed are all sporting a higher resolution remote play. Though it's still not Vita native iirc.
Tripolygon
Banned
WiiU uses Wifi Direct Miracast on Wifi N 5GHz Band to reduce interference from other Wifi signals. Standard Miracast uses H.264 codec but I'm thinking Nintendo must have developed their own proprietary codec which reduces the bit-rate and latency further.
PS3 to PS Vita remoteplay is streamed at 480 x 272 but upscaled to the Vita's native 960 x 544 display. Future titles designed around PS3 to Vita remoteplay will be able to stream at 640 × 480
The_Darkest_Red
Member
It's all about the input lag. If I can't notice that in a FPS like Killzone then I'll be a happy camper.
Not the 5 games that support the Vita exclusively.
What will ruin this is the FOV and UI elements of PS4 games being designed for a 50" TV rather than a 5" screen. Unless of course Sony releases a Vita tablet.
Isn't that good though? The GPU actually bringing the game resolution down to native Vita resolution should result in a nice image quality.
This is really forward thinking too. Basically makes the Vita into a high def version of the Wii-U controller with its ability to play games without a TV. And it's a wii-u controller that you can take with you on the go.
Well, if they do it the straightforward way (and why wouldn't they?) you'll get 4xSSAA in 1080p games (on top of whatever AA they are already doing). And you'll see it on a high-DPI OLED screen. IQ should be glorious, unequaled in the console/portable space.
Well, as long as the compression doesn't kill it that is. But I don't see why it should be too bad over the local network.
Which are those? I'd like to try it.
Zoramon089
Banned
Won't resized HUDs be a problem? Unless devs tailor HUDs for remote play, in the same way devs probably have different HUD assets for WiiU off screen play, you'll be getting really tiny HUD elements. Thankfully the Vita has the resolution to allow them to still be sharp but they'll be tiny
Mm, I'm not sure how willing people will be to use it remotely when games are being transferred over wifi or mobile network. In fact, I'm still waiting to see a demonstration of this and how the lag is. The thought of 60fps games being in realtime with no lag seems unlikely and unlike online games where you can use tricks/prediction to hide the lag, you can't really do this in single player games
Mm, I'm not sure how willing people will be to use it remotely when games are being transferred over wifi or mobile network. In fact, I'm still waiting to see a demonstration of this and how the lag is. The thought of 60fps games being in realtime with no lag seems unlikely and unlike online games where you can use tricks/prediction to hide the lag, you can't really do this in single player games
I've played quite a few current-gen console games in a 540p window (don't ask), and in the vast majority the GUI AND HUD are perfectly usable with that. So unless developer plan to reduce their size next gen that should mostly be fine.
Galacticos
Banned
Finaly official PS4 website:
https://us.playstation.com/ps4/
Europe:
http://eu.playstation.com/ps4/
Japan:
http://www.jp.playstation.com/
https://us.playstation.com/ps4/
Europe:
http://eu.playstation.com/ps4/
Japan:
http://www.jp.playstation.com/
Oppo
Member
It's extremely unlikely that Nintendo developed their own codec. It's fairly standard Miracast stuff. Nintendo has no expertise (or call) to do such a thing.
I don't understand where you are getting 640x480 from. That's SD rez and besides not even the right aspect ratio for Vita. Surely with dedicated hardware and 802.11n at their disposal, Sony can stream qHD to the Vita with very little problem.
Midnight Phoenix
Member
Vita has 16:9 aspect ratio screen. HUD can be scaled to Vita resolution without problem, because there is no memory used for assets. It's like universal games for iPad/iPhone.
Tripolygon
Banned
At this point PS1 emulation is just... universal. even smartphone can do it without much problem.
Besides, playing 320 x 240 resolution game on 1080p screen is just.... goddamn awful.
Zoramon089
Banned
Uhh, read the Iwata Talks on it. They most definitely developed their own version of the standard miracast stuff. Yeah it was a collaborative effort but implying they just borrowed tech completely unchanged isn't true at all
Anyway, getting back on topic, how does remote play work for the Vita exclusive games? I'm guessing a lot better than it does with PSP games
AzureSkies
Member
Not if we actually have anti aliasing and filtering, which has been in emulators for years.
I'd be pretty annoyed if PS1 support on the PS4 is identical to the PS2 and PS3.
Tripolygon
Banned
I'm pretty sure i said Nintendo must have developed their own proprietary codec to reduce the bitrate and latency further (they have the money and can hire engineers to do so). I have come to this conclusion because I have noticed that WiiU latency is lower than standard Miracast when compared to Miracast on Phones I have used.
I'm sure you understand that I'm talking about Remoteplay on PS3 and Vita and not PS4. Current remoteplay on Vita and PS3 runs at PSP native resolution then, upscaled to PS Vita native resolution. Yoshida clarifies in a statement in 2012 that titles designed around the constraints of PS3 to support remoteplay will be able to stream a 480p video (could be 854×480 which is the same aspect ratio as PS Vita) then upscaled to PS Vita rather than the PSP's 480 x 272.
I envision remoteplay on PS4 to be greatly improved by;
1. Just the fact that PS4 and Vita uses Wifi N improves remoteplay as it is.
2. The fact that PS4 has a dedicated video encode and decode hardware that does video encoding on the fly without any lag or resources needed from the APU also improves latency a lot.
3. Remoteplay on PS4 now also uses Sony's Gaikai underlying technology which means Remoteplay over internet will have an improved latency.
854 x 480 is the reso of the wiiu pad. Thee vita is 960 x 520, only a fraction bigger.
Codec is not something just 'oh I woke up one day and make it'. I'm pretty certain that Iwata was only talking about hardware, not the software. (Just seeing how goddamn awful they are in standard OS stuff, I don't think they have expertise to create video codec just for themselves)
Oppo
Member
That has to be hardware tweaks though. Developing a codec is super intensive, takes years sometimes, and they have the option of simply using a more aggressive codec within the H.264 spec. And a codec won't help latency at any rate, not directly. I know it's not bog standard Miracast but it's not that far off (Miracast is quite good). If it wasn't H.264 they'd have to include multiple hardware decodes, and they need H.264 for everything else, so the simplest answer is just that the hardware is tweaked. (iPhone example is not a great comparison BTW.)
Oh I see. Yeah the PS3 has some limitations obviously.
Mammoth Jones
Member
The more I read about the PS4 the more I think I'll be getting it day one.
I like what I'm reading.
Now don't screw it up, Sony.
I like what I'm reading.
Now don't screw it up, Sony.
Zoramon089
Banned
Sony will need some high tech software to emulate PS1 titles in a console with PC architecture.
This is how I first played Crash and Spyro. To this day I don't know how this was even allowed to be sold in stores and how they weren't sued instantly
polyh3dron
Banned
FYI I see crazy macroblocking on my Wii U gamepad screen while playing F-Zero. Just saying.
Should simply watching the 1080 videos for the PS4 content on the Vita give a representative view, minus any compression artefacts?
Or is that not accurate?
Sony will need some high tech software to emulate PS1 titles in a console with PC architecture.
with the PS4 hardware Sony can Emulate PS1,PS2,N64,Dreamcast,Wii, Gamecube & so on the problem is being careful not to open up Pandora's Box by emulating a PS2 & a hacker using a old PS2 hack to get into the PS4.
PS2 level power isn't much but you know hackers will claim victory the second they get in lol.
yurinka
Member
I assume that when doing remote play locally Vita will be connected to PS4 through bluetooth as if it was another DS4 controller to send the control inputs, so it only the lag generated by the video streaming through wifi n to vita would generate lag.
It was said somewhere that PS4 has dedicated hardware to code/decode streaming.
In addition to this, I smell that the Gaikai guys would have some cool codec. Which one did they use in PC?
Did a search and this is the 1st I found :
http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1656052&postcount=82
3rdamention
Member
I thought they said at the conference that ALL PS4 games, besides the specific ones you listed, would work with Remote Play since the Hardware on the PS4 was doing all the work. My understanding was that developers didn't have to do anything special on the coding side.